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Fair trading?


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I see nothing that is geocaching related in this thread

 

Fair trades.

 

Would you be able to tell if they are fair trades? Or is the value mostly subjective?

 

Is it the subjective value that leads to downtrading?

 

Please share your opinion. :)

 

So a generic thread on "What makes you happy" is automatically geocaching related because geocaching "can" cause happiness.

 

Interesting theory.

 

Fair trade. I will trade you one Off-Topic thread for a geocaching related one.

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So a generic thread on "What makes you happy" is automatically geocaching related because geocaching "can" cause happiness.

 

Interesting theory.

 

Fair trade. I will trade you one Off-Topic thread for a geocaching related one.

 

 

The examples I listed in the original post were examples of unfair trades.

 

Would this be better?:

 

Post an example of unfair trades in geocaching, and show the parallels between the examples in the original post. Cite your references, if any and be mindful that spelling is necessarily important. Please drop your papers on the desk on the way out. This does not count towards your final grade. Thank you. :)

 

 

Fair trades.

 

Would you be able to tell if they are fair trades? Or is the value mostly subjective?

 

Is it the subjective value that leads to downtrading?

 

Please share your opinion. :shocked:

 

Perhaps I should have added some nurturing to the original post, instead of hoping for the best..

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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According to Buddhism, desire and ignorance lie at the root of suffering.

 

Sounds reasonable to me... I trade up by completely emptying every cache I come across...

 

I mean, what is a better trade then less suffering?

 

According to Buddhism, generosity leads to good Karma. So, you are sacrificing your own Karma for the betterment of mankind ? Or is it more along the lines of desire and ignorance..? :)

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Cache pages that say "trade up or trade equal" or similarly asinine comments about swag should be subject to archival for ALR.

 

They are suggestions not subject to log deletion. Do I detect some guilt? :)

 

I understand your position. The site promotes itself as a "Treasure Hunt" which implies not trading evenly. However, you CAN leave an evenly valued item for something unique to protect your karmic soul. :shocked:

 

It is possible!

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Cache pages that say "trade up or trade equal" or similarly asinine comments about swag should be subject to archival for ALR.

 

They are suggestions not subject to log deletion. Do I detect some guilt? :)

 

I understand your position. The site promotes itself as a "Treasure Hunt" which implies not trading evenly. However, you CAN leave an evenly valued item for something unique to protect your karmic soul. :shocked:

 

It is possible!

 

I really hate the term "treasure hunt" and wish Geocaching.com would eliminate all references to it.

 

Anyway, what is the true value of an object? It's monetary value? The joy it brings? I see a lot of people make snide remarks about toys in caches, but most of the time I cache with a three-year-old in tow, and one more than one cache outing, a cheap plastic toy has made his day (and mine).

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Cache pages that say "trade up or trade equal" or similarly asinine comments about swag should be subject to archival for ALR.

 

They are suggestions not subject to log deletion. Do I detect some guilt? :)

 

I understand your position. The site promotes itself as a "Treasure Hunt" which implies not trading evenly. However, you CAN leave an evenly valued item for something unique to protect your karmic soul. :shocked:

 

It is possible!

 

I really hate the term "treasure hunt" and wish Geocaching.com would eliminate all references to it.

 

Anyway, what is the true value of an object? It's monetary value? The joy it brings? I see a lot of people make snide remarks about toys in caches, but most of the time I cache with a three-year-old in tow, and one more than one cache outing, a cheap plastic toy has made his day (and mine).

 

Most people have the common sense to know that a broken pencil is not a fair trade for a remote controlled car.

 

It really has nothing to do with monetary value...

 

I will say that not everyone has common sense but a lot of us do and some even ignore it.

 

I have no idea why anyone would argue against it... odd...

 

I am ok with people that don't have a clue... that it how cache degradation happens... but why defend it?

 

Sorry... it's cold here...

 

When I come home cold and tired.... It's good to warm my bones beside the fire.

Link to comment

Cache pages that say "trade up or trade equal" or similarly asinine comments about swag should be subject to archival for ALR.

 

They are suggestions not subject to log deletion. Do I detect some guilt? :)

 

I understand your position. The site promotes itself as a "Treasure Hunt" which implies not trading evenly. However, you CAN leave an evenly valued item for something unique to protect your karmic soul. :shocked:

 

It is possible!

 

I really hate the term "treasure hunt" and wish Geocaching.com would eliminate all references to it.

 

Anyway, what is the true value of an object? It's monetary value? The joy it brings? I see a lot of people make snide remarks about toys in caches, but most of the time I cache with a three-year-old in tow, and one more than one cache outing, a cheap plastic toy has made his day (and mine).

 

Most people have the common sense to know that a broken pencil is not a fair trade for a remote controlled car.

 

It really has nothing to do with monetary value...

 

I will say that not everyone has common sense but a lot of us do and some even ignore it.

 

I have no idea why anyone would argue against it... odd...

 

I am ok with people that don't have a clue... that it how cache degradation happens... but why defend it?

 

Sorry... it's cold here...

 

When I come home cold and tired.... It's good to warm my bones beside the fire.

 

Cache degradation? Is a cache really about what's inside? I care about the adventure and the hunt that lead to the cache, and I couldn't care less if the cache contains a remote control car or ten dirty golf balls. A good cache is good because of its location, not because of the swag. IMHO, it's the people who complain about swag quality who "don't have a clue."

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It would be interesting to see an academic analysis of swag economics. A brief one. Instead of that, I'll give you some observations, musings, and general blather.

 

In free market pricing, the value of an object is that which another person is willing to pay for it. Caches are not markets, so conventional notions of "value" lose meaning. The essential nature of swag is that it is sufficiently worthless for us to part with it willingly.

 

We can assign arbitrary values to swag based upon the value a hypothetical cacher might see in it. A McToy might be free, but to a four-year-old it could be a great thing, usually for a day or two. I have a glow-in-the-dark silicone bracelet I found in a cache which I like a lot. I have a bunch of carabiners that I don't have much use for, so I leave them in caches knowing that others find them useful.

 

The point is, swag value is very subjective. Still, the deterioration of cache contents gets noticed and discussed. I've read logs where a cacher decided to restock a cache they liked. Perhaps if some of us dedicated ourselves to leaving items and never taking any, it would help to offset swag deterioration.

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Cache pages that say "trade up or trade equal" or similarly asinine comments about swag should be subject to archival for ALR.

 

They are suggestions not subject to log deletion. Do I detect some guilt? :)

 

I understand your position. The site promotes itself as a "Treasure Hunt" which implies not trading evenly. However, you CAN leave an evenly valued item for something unique to protect your karmic soul. :shocked:

 

It is possible!

 

I really hate the term "treasure hunt" and wish Geocaching.com would eliminate all references to it.

 

Anyway, what is the true value of an object? It's monetary value? The joy it brings? I see a lot of people make snide remarks about toys in caches, but most of the time I cache with a three-year-old in tow, and one more than one cache outing, a cheap plastic toy has made his day (and mine).

 

Most people have the common sense to know that a broken pencil is not a fair trade for a remote controlled car.

 

It really has nothing to do with monetary value...

 

I will say that not everyone has common sense but a lot of us do and some even ignore it.

 

I have no idea why anyone would argue against it... odd...

 

I am ok with people that don't have a clue... that it how cache degradation happens... but why defend it?

 

Sorry... it's cold here...

 

When I come home cold and tired.... It's good to warm my bones beside the fire.

 

Cache degradation? Is a cache really about what's inside? I care about the adventure and the hunt that lead to the cache, and I couldn't care less if the cache contains a remote control car or ten dirty golf balls. A good cache is good because of its location, not because of the swag. IMHO, it's the people who complain about swag quality who "don't have a clue."

 

I also do not search for caches for stuff... but some do... and some do with children that like to find trinkets...

 

If you have no interest in any swag... why take any?

 

My reply is to those that complain about people complaining about those who don't trade fair....

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I also do not search for caches for stuff... but some do... and some do with children that like to find trinkets...

 

If you have no interest in any swag... why take any?

 

My reply is to those that complain about people complaining about those who don't trade fair....

 

I'm not sure if it's your weird punctuation that is obscuring your meaning or what, but I'm not sure that I understand what you are trying to say.

 

Unless you're a small child out with your geocacher parents, trade items are not the main object of the game. Yet the trade items that are of interest to the young ones are usually derided as geojunk!

 

There is no objective value to any piece of swag. You mentioned a broken pencil vs. a remote control car as an example of an "unfair" trade, but if that car is keeping the lid from closing and the cache could use a pencil, then hey - fair trade.

 

When I bother putting swag in a cache, it's because I found something cool, but inexpensive that I thought other cachers would dig. I don't hit the trails with the expectation of finding expensive trinkets and gifts for myself. Any cacher who does have that expectation is seriously misguided.

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I also do not search for caches for stuff... but some do... and some do with children that like to find trinkets...

 

If you have no interest in any swag... why take any?

 

My reply is to those that complain about people complaining about those who don't trade fair....

 

I'm not sure if it's your weird punctuation that is obscuring your meaning or what, but I'm not sure that I understand what you are trying to say.

 

Unless you're a small child out with your geocacher parents, trade items are not the main object of the game. Yet the trade items that are of interest to the young ones are usually derided as geojunk!

 

There is no objective value to any piece of swag. You mentioned a broken pencil vs. a remote control car as an example of an "unfair" trade, but if that car is keeping the lid from closing and the cache could use a pencil, then hey - fair trade.

 

When I bother putting swag in a cache, it's because I found something cool, but inexpensive that I thought other cachers would dig. I don't hit the trails with the expectation of finding expensive trinkets and gifts for myself. Any cacher who does have that expectation is seriously misguided.

 

Seriously? you are going to criticize my punctuation? I suppose if you cannot grasp the meaning of what I am saying then I will let it go... I had thought people from ontario were superior... or from the lake at least...

 

NM... Cancel my transfer payments...

Edited by brslk
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I also do not search for caches for stuff... but some do... and some do with children that like to find trinkets...

 

If you have no interest in any swag... why take any?

 

My reply is to those that complain about people complaining about those who don't trade fair....

 

I'm not sure if it's your weird punctuation that is obscuring your meaning or what, but I'm not sure that I understand what you are trying to say.

 

Unless you're a small child out with your geocacher parents, trade items are not the main object of the game. Yet the trade items that are of interest to the young ones are usually derided as geojunk!

 

There is no objective value to any piece of swag. You mentioned a broken pencil vs. a remote control car as an example of an "unfair" trade, but if that car is keeping the lid from closing and the cache could use a pencil, then hey - fair trade.

 

When I bother putting swag in a cache, it's because I found something cool, but inexpensive that I thought other cachers would dig. I don't hit the trails with the expectation of finding expensive trinkets and gifts for myself. Any cacher who does have that expectation is seriously misguided.

 

Seriously? you are going to criticize my punctuation? I suppose if you cannot grasp the meaning of what I am saying then I will let it go... I had thought people from ontario were superior... or from the lake at least...

 

NM... Cancel my transfer payments...

 

Your punctuation does make it tricky to decipher your meaning, and the puns don't clarify. Your bizarre attempt at insulting me because of where I live is inappropriate and not helpful in any way.

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Cache degradation? Is a cache really about what's inside? I care about the adventure and the hunt that lead to the cache, and I couldn't care less if the cache contains a remote control car or ten dirty golf balls. A good cache is good because of its location, not because of the swag. IMHO, it's the people who complain about swag quality who "don't have a clue."

 

Most of the first geocachers certainly did care about swag. Many caches had trade "themes" and encouraged trading certain items. Many cachers visited them by bringing specific trade items to trade. Many of the early caches were filled with $5 items. Without trading, perhaps caches should only have logsheets. However since most cachers don't audit logsheets, then what really is the point? The logbook was originally communication to other cachers and the cache owner about your visit and what you traded. With just a bunch of "tag" names that nobody audits, it seems to be an excercise in absurdity.

 

I really hate the term "treasure hunt" and wish Geocaching.com would eliminate all references to it.Anyway, what is the true value of an object? It's monetary value? The joy it brings? I see a lot of people make snide remarks about toys in caches, but most of the time I cache with a three-year-old in tow, and one more than one cache outing, a cheap plastic toy has made his day (and mine).

 

Why would a cheap plastic toy make his day if trade items didn't matter? :)

 

You are teaching a 3 year old to take from caches without leaving anything in return. So he it learning that there are no consequences for his actions.. What he does has no effect anywhere else.. plus a sense of entitlement. When he turns 18 in the year 2025 and he gets caught shoplifting, perhaps he may call his mom expecting her to bail him out. Perhaps she may say no to teach him a lesson, but it may be too late by then anyway...

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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I am ok with people that don't have a clue... that it how cache degradation happens... but why defend it?

 

Sorry... it's cold here...

 

When I come home cold and tired.... It's good to warm my bones beside the fire.

Far away across the field

The tolling of the masses

Calls the faithful to their knees

To find the softly spoken magic caches.. :)

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Why would a cheap plastic toy make his day if trade items didn't matter? :ph34r:

 

You are teaching a 3 year old to take from caches without leaving anything in return. So he it learning that there are no consequences for his actions.. What he does has no effect anywhere else.. plus a sense of entitlement. When he turns 18 in the year 2025 and he gets caught shoplifting, perhaps he may call his mom expecting her to bail him out. Perhaps she may say no to teach him a lesson, but it may be too late by then anyway...

 

If he wants to take a toy from a cache, I will find something in my bag to put back in - a toy he's not interested in anymore, a dollar, a carabiner, whatever. And I only let him take one - if there are two things he finds interesting, he has to choose. My earlier comments about taking stuff from caches without leaving anything were tongue-in-cheek. Anyway, is it necessary to attack my mothering skills because I'm into caching for the search, and not the swag? :ph34r:

 

My point is that there's no objective value to swag - the little toys that many people complain about are the only swag items that I ever bother taking, and that's only because I cache with a small child. If there is no toy in a cache to interest him, it's not a big deal - I still enjoy finding the cache, and taking a few moments to sign the log and read what others have written. I'm not going to storm home and spam the forums with complaints about how rude everyone is for leaving boring swag that my kid doesn't like.

 

The people with the sense of entitlement are the ones who expect to find expensive prizes in geocaches, and complain about "cache degradation" when a cache's contents don't meet their particular tastes.

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Why would a cheap plastic toy make his day if trade items didn't matter? :ph34r:

 

You are teaching a 3 year old to take from caches without leaving anything in return. So he it learning that there are no consequences for his actions.. What he does has no effect anywhere else.. plus a sense of entitlement. When he turns 18 in the year 2025 and he gets caught shoplifting, perhaps he may call his mom expecting her to bail him out. Perhaps she may say no to teach him a lesson, but it may be too late by then anyway...

 

If he wants to take a toy from a cache, I will find something in my bag to put back in - a toy he's not interested in anymore, a dollar, a carabiner, whatever. And I only let him take one - if there are two things he finds interesting, he has to choose. My earlier comments about taking stuff from caches without leaving anything were tongue-in-cheek. Anyway, is it necessary to attack my mothering skills because I'm into caching for the search, and not the swag? :ph34r:

 

My point is that there's no objective value to swag - the little toys that many people complain about are the only swag items that I ever bother taking, and that's only because I cache with a small child. If there is no toy in a cache to interest him, it's not a big deal - I still enjoy finding the cache, and taking a few moments to sign the log and read what others have written. I'm not going to storm home and spam the forums with complaints about how rude everyone is for leaving boring swag that my kid doesn't like.

 

The people with the sense of entitlement are the ones who expect to find expensive prizes in geocaches, and complain about "cache degradation" when a cache's contents don't meet their particular tastes.

 

My earlier comments about taking stuff from caches without leaving anything were tongue-in-cheek.

 

Hard to detect "tongue-in-cheek" on the internet.

 

For the record though, I don't recall reading anything in this thread about people expecting to find "expensive prizes in geocaches".

 

As for "cache degradation", people place caches and sometimes start them off with decent stuff in them. Eventually the caches end up with crappy stuff in them because people don't trade up as they should. Hey it happens, I understand...

 

Doesn't mean it's OK though.

 

If you condone this then hey... I'm glad you don't cache in my area.

 

Not too sure how much my opinion counts, I am just a new boy, stranger in this town.

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Hard to detect "tongue-in-cheek" on the internet.

 

For the record though, I don't recall reading anything in this thread about people expecting to find "expensive prizes in geocaches".

 

As for "cache degradation", people place caches and sometimes start them off with decent stuff in them. Eventually the caches end up with crappy stuff in them because people don't trade up as they should. Hey it happens, I understand...

 

Doesn't mean it's OK though.

 

If you condone this then hey... I'm glad you don't cache in my area.

 

Not too sure how much my opinion counts, I am just a new boy, stranger in this town.

 

Yes, I realize it's hard to detect tongue-in-cheek, which is why I clarified that it was, and that I do not, in fact, allow my child to steal toys from caches.

 

I am sure everyone knows what your idea of "cache degradation" means. What you don't seem to understand is that YOUR idea of "decent stuff" might be vastly different from MY idea of "decent stuff." "Trading up" is highly subjective, so running around admonishing people and complaining about cache "degradation" is futile.

 

I've seen plenty of brand new caches filled to the brim with brand new stuff, and it's just not that exciting. Most of the really memorable caches I've found were old caches with nothing in them but a dirty golf ball, some marbles, and a logbook. What makes a cache memorable is the experience of finding it. A challenging cache in an exciting location has much greater value than any amount of brand new swag.

 

If you're caching for the stuff, you're caching for the wrong reason. Our whole society is designed around acquiring stuff. If you want more stuff, go shopping instead.

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Yes, I realize it's hard to detect tongue-in-cheek, which is why I clarified that it was, and that I do not, in fact, allow my child to steal toys from caches.

 

Thank you for clarifying that.

Toungue and cheek is usually funny, unbelievable, or marked with the typical "tounge and cheek" smilie, which is not visible on all browsers. You did not display any of the 3.

 

Anyway, is it necessary to attack my mothering skills because I'm into caching for the search, and not the swag?

 

My response was "trading even" with the level of conversation. Since you now contend that your post was "tounge and cheek", it now appears as an attempt to make it look like my response was "downtrading" to the conversation. :ph34r:

 

I am sure everyone knows what your idea of "cache degradation" means. What you don't seem to understand is that YOUR idea of "decent stuff" might be vastly different from MY idea of "decent stuff." "Trading up" is highly subjective, so running around admonishing people and complaining about cache "degradation" is futile.

 

Nobody is running around, nobody is admonishing, the complaining is really promotion. I admit that this thread has an agenda to promote fair trading, and is biased, and not completely "fair and balanced". :blink:

 

I've seen plenty of brand new caches filled to the brim with brand new stuff, and it's just not that exciting. Most of the really memorable caches I've found were old caches with nothing in them but a dirty golf ball, some marbles, and a logbook. What makes a cache memorable is the experience of finding it. A challenging cache in an exciting location has much greater value than any amount of brand new swag.

 

If you're caching for the stuff, you're caching for the wrong reason. Our whole society is designed around acquiring stuff. If you want more stuff, go shopping instead.

 

I agree with you, the location is much more important, however finding broken items really is asinine, when most of the trade items are perhaps now worth a buck or so. How much effort is it to leave a $1 item if you trade something out? or even a dollar? or trade something that is not broken? Finding emptied out caches is not funny because it is rather common. Sadly there are people caching for the stuff, and they are taking coins. I get a message saying there is no coin in a cache. I check the logs to see who may not have logged it out, and only the last person who left it seems to have put it there. Someone visited, or revisited the cache for the coin. Who would do that? They are the property of who the serial# is registered to, and cannot be sold on E-bay. If any appear on E-bay the listing gets taken down. So who is doing it, and why? It creeps me out that a cacher is doing it. I'd rather a muggle take the entire cache, than find out a cacher is visiting and rehiding caches just to steal. :ph34r: </b></rant>

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Ahem!"I am just a new boy, stranger in this town."

:ph34r:

Come in here, dear boy, have a cigar.

You're gonna go far, fly high,

You're never gonna die, you're gonna make it if you try;they're gonna love you.

Well I've always had a deep respect, and I mean that most sincerely.

The caching is just fantastic, that is really what I think.

Oh by the way, which one's brslk?

 

Everybody else is just green, have you seen the chart?

It's a helluva start, it could be made into a monster

if we all pull together as a team.

 

Zig zag my way through the boredom and pain

Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the buggers to blame

And watching for pigs on the wing.

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I agree with you, the location is much more important, however finding broken items really is asinine, when most of the trade items are perhaps now worth a buck or so. How much effort is it to leave a $1 item if you trade something out? or even a dollar? or trade something that is not broken? Finding emptied out caches is not funny because it is rather common. Sadly there are people caching for the stuff, and they are taking coins. I get a message saying there is no coin in a cache. I check the logs to see who may not have logged it out, and only the last person who left it seems to have put it there. Someone visited, or revisited the cache for the coin. Who would do that? They are the property of who the serial# is registered to, and cannot be sold on E-bay. If any appear on E-bay the listing gets taken down. So who is doing it, and why? It creeps me out that a cacher is doing it. I'd rather a muggle take the entire cache, than find out a cacher is visiting and rehiding caches just to steal. :huh: </b></rant>

 

I think things get broken in caches if they aren't traded quickly. We have harsh winters here, and I think much of the damage to trade items occurs because of temperature changes, water getting in, etc.

 

Stealing geocoins is a whole other issue that shouldn't be conflated with the "trade up" issue. It's an intentionally malicious act, whereas, at worst, a lousy trade is simply a nuisance to people who look for swag.

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I love digging through swag for little treasures :smile:. Sure the challenge of finding the cache is fun and the scenery is sometimes beautiful/memorable, but the best part of finding a regular/large is looking to see what quirky things might be inside B). The kinds of unique things you can't find by shopping. Discontinued hot wheels and other old toys are my favorite to find. And non paper sig items :P. Travel bugs and geocoins to discover (not swag of course). I look for micros knowing there won't be swag and enjoy it but swag is the icing on the cake :). My inner child loves finding treasure and leaving it equally so :angry:. Oh yeah and the mini ninjas like swag too; I'll let them look after I have (jk, really).

 

Swag value is very subjective.

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I agree with you, the location is much more important, however finding broken items really is asinine, when most of the trade items are perhaps now worth a buck or so. How much effort is it to leave a $1 item if you trade something out? or even a dollar? or trade something that is not broken? Finding emptied out caches is not funny because it is rather common. Sadly there are people caching for the stuff, and they are taking coins. I get a message saying there is no coin in a cache. I check the logs to see who may not have logged it out, and only the last person who left it seems to have put it there. Someone visited, or revisited the cache for the coin. Who would do that? They are the property of who the serial# is registered to, and cannot be sold on E-bay. If any appear on E-bay the listing gets taken down. So who is doing it, and why? It creeps me out that a cacher is doing it. I'd rather a muggle take the entire cache, than find out a cacher is visiting and rehiding caches just to steal. B) </b></rant>

 

I think things get broken in caches if they aren't traded quickly. We have harsh winters here, and I think much of the damage to trade items occurs because of temperature changes, water getting in, etc.

 

Stealing geocoins is a whole other issue that shouldn't be conflated with the "trade up" issue. It's an intentionally malicious act, whereas, at worst, a lousy trade is simply a nuisance to people who look for swag.

 

I'm trying to trace the chain of decadence.

 

It starts with down trading.

 

Next, is no trading (I took something, left nothing) I've gotten a few logs like those.

 

After that is coin and travelbug borrowing and eventual keeping.

 

 

Edit- bad humour

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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I love digging through swag for little treasures

Me too! While I almost never take anything from a cache, (and usually just leave some stuff), I always enjoy poking through the contents, just to see what's inside. It amuses me to no end to read the forums and see where some goober has loudly proclaimed that I am doing it wrong because swag shouldn't matter. I say feed your inner child, and let them play with the "treasure". :)

 

It starts with down trading.

No, no, no... It starts with mother's milk. That leads to heroine. B)

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