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will there be a decent winmobile app?


tsolt
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mod edit: deleted mentions of prohibited software.

 

What I would like to know is, does Groundspeak have any plans of porting the iphone geocaching app to windows mobile?

 

Trimble is suggested as a alternativ, but not for me using a norwegian carrier, and not using a nokia/blackberry.

 

Will Groundspeak make or allow a winmobile app in the near future, or is this going to be another iphone bias story, where we support the fashion thinige, and flips the bird to the rest?

Edited by robertlipe
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What I would like to know is, does Groundspeak have any plans of porting the iphone geocaching app to windows mobile?

 

Trimble is suggested as a alternativ, but not for me using a norwegian carrier, and not using a nokia/blackberry.

 

Will Groundspeak make or allow a winmobile app in the near future, or is this going to be another iphone bias story, where we support the fashion thinige, and flips the bird to the rest?

 

From what I'm aware Groundspeak has abandoned Windows Mobile development. There's an interesting app at http://live.geocaching.com but it doesn't hold a candle to the iPhone version. They're heading to Android next - so if you have an HTC Device you can use Haret with an Android ROM to boot to that for now. Otherwise, you bought the wrong phone for geocaching (as did I).

 

Since the Garmin NuviPhone Windows Mobile version was a disaster for the company, the one hope for Geocaching software for Windows Phone has been shot down. Maybe Windows Mobile 7 will take off and we'll see a renewed interest but for now don't bank on it.

 

I'm sticking with mountains of Pocket Queries and my Garmin Colorado for geocaching. Besides, current generation smartphones have an almost laughable GPS situation whether that be battery life or performance.

Edited by robertlipe
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mod edit: deleted mentions of prohibited software.

 

If there is going to be no further development of an "official" windows mobile app, why doesn't geocaching.com/Groundspeak team up with the developer of xxxxxxx? It's the best windows mobile geocaching out there.

 

I might be new to geocaching, but from what I've seen, it appears that there's tons of support here for the Iphone crowd, but none for Windows Mobile. All of the WinMo apps I've found so far are blocked or against TOS, but Groundspeak/geocaching.com is unwilling to provide a WinMo application of their own for us. A partnership between xxxxxx and geocaching.com would be a win-win for everyone.

 

I for one, will not become a premium member until there is more WinMo support. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who agree with me. Not everyone has (or wants) an iPhone.

Edited by Brad_W
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mod edit: deleted mentions of prohibited software.

 

If there is going to be no further development of an "official" windows mobile app, why doesn't geocaching.com/Groundspeak team up with the developer of xxxxxxx? It's the best windows mobile geocaching out there.

 

I might be new to geocaching, but from what I've seen, it appears that there's tons of support here for the Iphone crowd, but none for Windows Mobile. All of the WinMo apps I've found so far are blocked or against TOS, but Groundspeak/geocaching.com is unwilling to provide a WinMo application of their own for us. A partnership between xxxxxxx and geocaching.com would be a win-win for everyone.

 

I for one, will not become a premium member until there is more WinMo support. I'm sure that there are plenty of people who agree with me. Not everyone has (or wants) an iPhone.

 

I have to agree. I just got into geocaching about 3 months ago and just hit my 20th find and was working up to sending in my $30 for a premium membership. I too am NOT going to pay $30 to a company that basically says I can't use my WinMo phone.

Edited by Brad_W
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From what I'm aware Groundspeak has abandoned Windows Mobile development.

 

 

I was afraid of just that. It seems like the Groundspeak people are apple fanboys, ie windows haters.

 

Besides, current generation smartphones have an almost laughable GPS situation whether that be battery life or performance.

 

Your ignorance is as bright as the sun in Sahara at noon.

I currently use a HTC HD2, and the GPSr perform almost as good as my oregon 550, and better than my tomtom One satnav.

Running Garmin mobile XT with Garmin satnav-maps does not drain the battery. I use the HD2 as satnav on a daily basis driving, use it as a mp3 player several hours a day, wifi/HDSPA for email and internet, and I still have battery life left as I go to bed.

 

And even thinking of using GPSr performance/batterylife as an argument against win mobile/smart phones in your post, and at the same time hailing the iPhone, is "interresting", at least.

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mod edit: deleted mentions of prohibited software.

 

@kayl,

 

I fully agree with you on suggesting Groundspeak teaming up with Tom Hiro on the development of xxxxxx. He's done what they where not capable of creating (or something like that), so why not give the guy a hand and solve the "scrape"-issue, make the xxxxxx "legal" according to TOU, and make a large amount of geocachers happy?

 

And on the topic of iphooone, I wouldn't have one even if I was payed to accept it. Its prbably the biggest hype in electronics history.

 

Or I can say like Bart Simpson:

"You're all losers. You think you're cool because you buy a $500 phone with a picture of a fruit on it? Well, guess what? They cost eight bucks to make and I pee on every one."

Edited by Brad_W
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From what I'm aware Groundspeak has abandoned Windows Mobile development.

 

 

I was afraid of just that. It seems like the Groundspeak people are apple fanboys, ie windows haters.

 

Besides, current generation smartphones have an almost laughable GPS situation whether that be battery life or performance.

 

Your ignorance is as bright as the sun in Sahara at noon.

I currently use a HTC HD2, and the GPSr perform almost as good as my oregon 550, and better than my tomtom One satnav.

Running Garmin mobile XT with Garmin satnav-maps does not drain the battery. I use the HD2 as satnav on a daily basis driving, use it as a mp3 player several hours a day, wifi/HDSPA for email and internet, and I still have battery life left as I go to bed.

 

And even thinking of using GPSr performance/batterylife as an argument against win mobile/smart phones in your post, and at the same time hailing the iPhone, is "interresting", at least.

 

I didn't hail the iPhone. I run an HTC Touch Pro2 as my smartphone - the sister phone to that HD2 you're talking about. Try leaving the GPS on, all day as a foreground application. The HTC Touch, HTC Touch Pro and HTC Touch Pro2 all have a design flaw where running the GPS, with data, while plugged into a charger will cause the unit to overheat and degrade power performance.

 

I run Garmin Mobile XT on my device and yes the GPS will murder the battery, so you have a rare gem there. Perhaps when the SiRF 4 chipset launches we'll see improved performance. Also note the HD2 is not available in North America, nor will it be for quite some time.

 

Try using a smartphone for Wherigo. I've done it - with three different models of Windows Mobile devices. Not fun when there are 20 metre zones you're aiming for... especially if cell coverage is weak -- that means no a-GPS service.

 

Now, I will agree I can get a 3 metre lock using aGPS in a metro area. Most geocaches I want to seek are out in more remote areas. Since You are using an HD2, I'll have to decide you're probably using the device in areas with considerably better cellular coverage than I'm accustomed to. If I leave the GPS running on my Touch Pro2, on, say, the Niagara Escarpment my phone battery will be dead within 60 minutes. Don't get me started on the apps that leave the GPS open after you close them, still draining the battery *cough*latitude*cough*.

 

You have also completely misunderstood my post. I WANT a Windows Mobile application - preferably one that supports WVGA resolution on Windows Mobile 6.5.3 but I am fully aware that Groundspeak has no intention of supporting us - particularly when you look at the joys of developing an app for WinMo vs iPhone or Android. On Windows Mobile, there is no 'easy' toolkit for developing VGA/QVGA/HQVGA/WVGA/HVGA - and the methods of accessing the GPS changed between WinMo 5 (no official API, use Serial calls and program your own NMEA routines), and WinMo 6.0. It stabilized after that, but now Windows Mobile 7 is a "complete rewrite" and expected in Q3 2010. As a programmer - do you want to commit to that roller coaster? Now let's talk distribution --- most power users can happily find an app at XDA Developers or PPC Geeks. Handango and PocketGear have been around for a while, again, for power users. Windows Marketplace for Mobile is nice shiny and new - preloaded on new 6.5 devices (that the carrier didn't drop it from) so you get like 5% penetration using that method if you're lucky. Now look at the pain you're in for if you want to sell outside the USA - you have to certify your app in a dozen languages even if you want to sell in the UK or Canada, to anglophones!

 

I'm upset by the choice Groundspeak made, but living with it. I like that banned app, and GS isn't gonna buy it because (I believe) it uses SCRAPING not the API to access the data. Yes I miss the functionality but really, smartphone support is NEW. I still found caches when all I had was a free membership and a Garmin eTrex back in 2003.

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Hi folks.

 

We're fine with this discussion, but we do not allow mention of applications that violate our Terms of Use Agreement. Please stay away from mentioning that item so I can take the rest of the weekend off. :)

 

Thanks.

 

Brad Webb

Groundspeak, Inc. - The Language of Location

home of: Geocaching, Waymarking, Wherigo

www.Groundspeak.com

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mod edit: deleted mentions of prohibited software.

 

Hi folks.

 

We're fine with this discussion, but we do not allow mention of applications that violate our Terms of Use Agreement. Please stay away from mentioning that item so I can take the rest of the weekend off. :)

 

Thanks.

 

Brad Webb

Groundspeak, Inc. - The Language of Location

home of: Geocaching, Waymarking, Wherigo

www.Groundspeak.com

 

Ok, so I'll try to not mention xxxxxx from now on, but How about saying something about what Groundspeak is doing for the win mobile people?

I really hate the idea of you people using my premium membership fee to develop iphooooone apps, and let me hang out to dry....

 

And if your not willing to, or able to, make such an alternative for the premium members that have windows mobiles as a geocaching backup device (iphone is not an alternative for the serious business people), You might enlighten us about why You can or can not have someone do it for you, like Tom Hiro, that already have most of it done?

 

is it that much to ask, that Groundspeak actually can communicate with their paying customers, and listen to them? lately, it feels like the distance between Groundspeak and Your customers have grown larger day by day.

 

And last, but not least, the fact that Your "fine with the discussion", doesnt help much for the winmo-users out there, and I actually find the tone of Your whole post a little patronsing.

Edited by Brad_W
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@ northernpenguin,

It looks like you think I'm an american, but I'm not. I live in europe.

 

on the batterypart.

If you havent tried a HD2, dont assume so much. I've had qtek9100, HTC diamond, Touch HD and now the HD2, and the HD is nothing like any other smartphone I've tried.

as you say, the HD2 is a gem. its a keeper:-)

 

I use the "devils app" for spontanious(?) caching, and for checking status on caches. could ahve done the same on wap, but the Groundspeak wap.pages are so useless, I'm ut of words.

 

any nonGPSR is not suitable for planned caching, IMHO, and Wherigo is non existing here. I think there is 1 in the whole country.

 

On the development of winmoapps, I am a computer engineer.

There is not a problem to write something for winmo 6/6.5, and exclude any legacy winmo. The resolution"problem" of yours is not as complicated as you think, and if Tom Hiro can do it, so can others (but we only need to get GS and TH to talk to each other, and make the "unspeakable app" comply to the TOU).

 

On the distribution part, as an official PM-app on GS, that should not be a problem.

If your using a smartphone/GpsR, and are able to load pq's and gpx-files to your devices, you will manage that too.

 

nope, the only problem here, is that someone is loosing touch with the customers, and think that everyone is an american (i.e. suggesting trimble to a norwegan), and that iphone is gods gift to man kind.

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I'm upset by the choice Groundspeak made, but living with it. I like that banned app, and GS isn't gonna buy it because (I believe) it uses SCRAPING not the API to access the data. Yes I miss the functionality but really, smartphone support is NEW. I still found caches when all I had was a free membership and a Garmin eTrex back in 2003.

 

So why don't they work with the developer of that which must not be mentioned in order to get the app using the API?

 

I prefer to use the app to save paper!

 

I realize that Groundspeak doesn't "owe" us anything, but a direct answer would be great.

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I'm upset by the choice Groundspeak made, but living with it. I like that banned app, and GS isn't gonna buy it because (I believe) it uses SCRAPING not the API to access the data. Yes I miss the functionality but really, smartphone support is NEW. I still found caches when all I had was a free membership and a Garmin eTrex back in 2003.

 

So why don't they work with the developer of that which must not be mentioned in order to get the app using the API?

 

I prefer to use the app to save paper!

 

I realize that Groundspeak doesn't "owe" us anything, but a direct answer would be great.

 

I really wish they would. I have used other applications, which require me to download a PQ in advance and plan where I'm going. Which is a pain, and a duplicate effort - I've ALREADY loaded up my Garmin GPS with that information. For those that care, I am on my 5th Windows Mobile based device here - starting back on the Cassiopeia E-11. Back than it was just called Microsoft Palm PC.

 

The banned application was real useful for me to track trackable items, drop them off where I remember the drop and yes, for FTF chases too. Using Pocket Internet Explorer to search the main Geocaching website is a pain in the derrier. Entering logs on caches with Opera Mobile is very unpleasant.

 

The sad thing here is Geocaching.com does have a near monopoly on the game - the competition never really took off, so we have to put up with Groundspeak telling us what to do.

 

I'm particularly annoyed because I live in Canada. Canada is the land that technology forgot, or refuses to deal with. We were the last country to get the iPhone ... so the marketplace here is ruled by the BlackBerry. Most geocachers I know around here have a Blackberry, or a Windows Phone - and are locked into a 3 year contract for said device. That means no geocaching app for some of us until 2012.

 

Now let's look at Groundspeak's history with Smartphones, shall we?

They released wap.geocaching.com ... it was great for a week or so. Then more modern devices appeared, and while the rest of the world started building web pages that were friendly for Blackberries and Palm Treo's, Groundspeak stuck their head in the sand, and pretended that mobile computing didn't exist. They still do that for the most part. Most of us would shut our traps about the pain of not having a scraping app if coord.info could be directed to a mobile friendly page.

 

So, they cater to the Blackberry users - those of you who are inside the continental United States can purchase an app, for a monthly or annual fee from Trimble and go caching to your heart's content. Live in Windsor, Ontario, just 400 metres from the nearest USA cache? Nope sucks to be you. No app for you. In fact, the entire world gets no app! Just the USA!

 

Next up, we have the Wherigo player that appears *gasp* for Windows Mobile!

A revolutionary new game and something that us Windows Mobile types could be proud to have first. Except - what was released was really a late-Alpha, pre-Beta quality application. GPS detection didn't work on 90% of devices, and required the phone to be soft-reset to recover. Then the high resolution screens appeared on the market, and we find out Groundspeak doesn't know how to program Windows Mobile for auto-resizing controls based on the screen dimensions. Well, they're working on it is the official stance in the forums but the GPS issues were fixed by the community and two years later we have yet to see an update to the Wherigo player to address the major bugs. So that product has essentially come out stillborn.

 

Ok, fine.

 

Live.geocaching.com is the cure to what ails all of us mobile types! It quietly sneaks out of the lab and is obviously aimed at European geocachers with Java based cell phones. Like a Blackberry - no, wait, doesn't work on those. Just the candybar type cell phones, not smartphones. But there's a Windows Mobile build! Of course, the Windows Mobile build is feature complete with no camera support, and it works fine on high resolution screens -- offering microscopic controls and menus to interact with. Oh, and the caches will only *sometimes* appear on the screen, or they'll appear where you were caching yesterday but not today. Oh and the logging method is a completely new method that may or may not work.

 

Then another exciting development! You can use Textmarks.com and SMS for cache information! Yup, just text to GC.com and get info, or log caches. Oh wait - we're back to that USA citizens only thing. Rest of the world, move along, nothing to see here.

 

So about a year goes by and the iPhone app launches out of nowhere. Three versions of it actually. $10 for a lifetime of cache updates, and since it's an official Groundspeak application, you never have to worry that a site redesign will leave you standing in the woods, surrounded by tupperware that you'll never be able to locate! Of course, good luck finding the car when your (non removable) iPhone battery goes dead while pursuing that 6km hike to that cool cache.

 

Now I hear the focus at Groundspeak is to follow the more trendy newswire about tech - they're going full tilt into Android, releasing an app at the end of Q1 2010. Windows Mobile is dying after all! Wait, how much market share does Android *currently have* vs Windows Mobile? Nevermind that Windows Mobile web traffic doubled in December 2009. After Android, they're going to service Blackberry is what I'm hearing. So USA Blackberry owners will have TWO endorsed methods of accessing the site.

 

Meanwhile, here I am in Canada - I love my Windows Phone but Groundspeak doesn't. Even if I want to change to iPhone just to get that app, I gotta wait until 2012 or pay over a thousand bucks for renaging on my contract, and then buying an iPhone. How much you wanna bet in December 2012 the iPhone app is no longer maintained while Groundspeak is off chasing the next pretty piece of technology....

 

I wish that GS would spend as much effort on developing a proper mobile effort as they do stomping on the rogue apps that enable people to enjoy the site as much as they do.

Edited by northernpenguin
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@northernpenguin,

 

Sorry about misunderstanding your post, and thank you for your last post. You wrote exactly what I tried to say on my non-native english.

 

GS is behaving just like apple does on appstore, and that is much like china and alternative chinese thinkers....

 

I'm signing off the GS forum, as GS doesnt take critisism very well, and forums with sensorship and lack of free speech is not a place I feel like contributing to.

 

I guess asking for GS to come to their sences on a winmo app for ALL geocachers american, canadian, asian or european, is like beating a dead horse for the win.

 

nuff said.

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LOL - developer of that which must not be mentioned - let's call him lord Voldemort :-D

 

to the point, I got my HTC for work, fun, organizer, etc (just like people got iPhone, except that working part), but I don't understand why (even as PM) I am being discriminated. All I did is to dare to use WM OS. is that such a crime?

 

if XXXX is such a crime activity, can you let me know what to use? and pls, don't tell me to buy something else .. i am fine with my HTC Rhodium as it is

 

thx

 

EDIT: if you check my public profile on GC.com you can see that last year there was sudden increase in founds, and why? because I discovered XXXX, and now when I become PM, I found out that I am most likely to loose the possibility to use XXX .. now what? any chance to get the money back? because I see no reason why to buy extra device ...

Edited by orxion
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I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

Edited by fastcatcher
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I have never geocached with anything but my Windows Mobile Phone. I love it due to the real time cache info availablility. I think that all of the shortcomeings that have been mentioned are easyly overcome. I have a Bluetooth GPS puck for when I need better accuracy, (ie no static navigation), or extended battery life (all day cach hike). I have an app to turn off the screen while leaving everything running (to save battery life), and have a 2500 mAh battery powered charger, and several spare batteries (cheap on eBay).

 

I aggree that Tom Hiro, or someone like him, should be leveraged to make a sweet windows mobile app that uses the private API (that the iPhone app has access to). The best part is that one such app already exists, it just need to have a simple mod to change the data imput meathod from scraping to accessing the API. It seems like a no brainer.

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mention of unauthorized application removed by moderator

 

I think it's a big load of crap that Groundspeak doesn't support the efforts of Tom (xxxxxx) who seems to be the only one providing something for windows mobile users....not to mention it's the best damned geocaching app i've seen.

 

What a load of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Brad_W
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I have been and would continue be a paying premium member of Geocaching.com

 

HOWEVER,

 

I have used the "unmentionable" software on Windows Mobile for a long time. I find it the BEST Solution I have found for spontaneous and convenient geocaching.

 

Therefore, I AM FORMALLY CANCELLING MY PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP UNTIL Groundspeak EITHER;

 

A) emails API information to Tom Hiro, the developer of the "unmentionable" software, explaining how he can comply with the terms and use the private Groundspeak API

 

or

 

B ) Officially explains to this thread why they will not allow Tom Hiro's "unmentionable" software to access the API

 

I am speaking with my wallet and I encourage all others that use Tom's "unmentionable" software to do the same. Tom takes care of those that use his software even though he gives it away for free. But GS wont take care of their paying customers!

Edited by RyaSke
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I aggree that Tom Hiro, or someone like him, should be leveraged to make a sweet windows mobile app that uses the private API (that the iPhone app has access to). The best part is that one such app already exists, it just need to have a simple mod to change the data imput meathod from scraping to accessing the API. It seems like a no brainer.

 

The assumption seems to be that GS is free to make the API available to who ever they want when ever they want. Beside the iPhone I believe there is another user of that API -- Trimble. It could well be that Trimble funded the development of the API and there is contractual language preventing GS from making the API publicly available.

 

But if you really want a winmo app using the API buy Jeremy a winmo phone, complete with subscription, and convince him to use it. Then maybe you'll get your winmo app.

 

Jim

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The assumption seems to be that GS is free to make the API available to who ever they want when ever they want. Beside the iPhone I believe there is another user of that API -- Trimble. It could well be that Trimble funded the development of the API and there is contractual language preventing GS from making the API publicly available.

 

Yes, you could be correct here. A simple way to end the debate about opening the API would be for a Groundspeak employee to just come out and say "Our lawyers won't let us do that" instead of ignoring the issue, or telling us what words we're not allowed to use. But, this is a private enterprise that can do anything they want, it's not like there's another option - either use Geocaching.com the way we're allowed to, or find another hobby.

 

Groundspeak doesn't have to open the API to the public if they develop an app themselves. The wording has to be pretty specific for that API to allow iPhone, Android, Java, WinMo via Live.Geocaching.Com and (upcoming Blackberry) but forbid a Windows Mobile native app.

 

But if you really want a winmo app using the API buy Jeremy a winmo phone, complete with subscription, and convince him to use it. Then maybe you'll get your winmo app.

 

I am pretty sure Jeremy has already tried Windows Mobile - surely he's used the Wherigo player on the PocketPC before the (Wherigo) site launched. But I'm just speculating there, of course.

 

--

 

What is disappointing here for me is I am seeing Geocaching live-data uses for what seems to be every _other_ platform out there, and there's of course a very strong bias to top selling / trendy American smartphone models. Granted this is probably based on the perceived usage of the Geocaching site.

 

No doubt the iPhone app came when they saw massive amounts of traffic from the Safari browser suddenly hitting the Groundspeak webservers. Who knows - maybe if current trends keep going in the direction they are we'll see something yet but I'm done holding my breath. I've seen the wall of silence many times before from Groundspeak and when they've made a decision to stop something - well it just happens.

 

Groundspeak is a private company, not a democracy. They will do as they please, regardless of how much whining we do in the forums. There is probably a good reason for this, which involves keeping the lights on at the LilyPad, and the servers running... they're not free to operate no matter how much we love the game.

 

I *wish* there was a Windows Mobile application. I still believe the current Mobile strategy is a flawed one. But I don't work for Groundspeak. I don't know what they're working on. For all I know they've spent $100,000 on a Windows Mobile app and failed, so it got swept under the carpet. Maybe the Microsoft APIs for the PocketPC / Windows Mobile / Windows Phone / Zune Experience is too much of a moving target (but then again, they support Android which as a platform is as stable as an etch-a-sketch in a paint shaker).

 

I will NOT be cancelling my Premium Subscription over this. I still fully support the site, and hope everyone that caches regularly will as well. Like I said before, I can find caches with a moldy printout and an eTrex Legend. Smartphone caching is a (strong) want, not a need.

 

I still plan to laugh at the iPhone owning geocachers around here ... ever seen what happens when you use a capacitive screen outside in -20C weather then bring it into a +21C heated room? Hint: you'll be calling for warranty repair. :ph34r:

 

--

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I work in a cold storage warehouse. The area I over see is generally 0F I spend most of my day in this temp with occasional trips into temps around -15F. Of course as a human I occasionally need to visit the break room to warm up. This would be a difference of 70-85 degrees..and my Android with it's capacitive screen is in my outer pocket. I haven't noticed anything strange beyond the cold fingers when I try to use it :ph34r:

 

I should also point out that part of the allure of geocaching is the fact that it's free. Should we ever come to a point where I would be charged for the hunt I will start putting caches in gum ball machines :ph34r:

Edited by Crude
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I strongly support "lord Voldemort's" application "which must not be mentioned", but "you know what"...

 

I should renew my PM in near future, but I will wait for result of TH x GS discussion. In case there is no effort from GS side to support TH's "best in the world" application (or provide their own, better one :-), I will not prolong my PM..

Edited by t.tengler
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From what I can see, I must say that Tom with his XXX application has done more for geocachers with WinMo device than the whole Groundspeak crew - and he's done it for free. I have thanked him before and I do it here publicly again - thanks Tom!

 

Why, dear Groundspeak, is it such a problem to get in touch with him and make his application working according to ToU and make THOUSANDS of users happy?

 

The idea of "banning" just sounds so stupid...

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How about contacting Tom Hiro, offer him access to the official API, give him a free PM or two, and let him be the developer of the "official WinMo-app"?

It seems like GS is not able to develop anything else than the site and an app for a fruitcompany.

 

Why is GS so ignorant to people living outside US, we pay the same ammonut to be PM, but an US citicen gets twice as much for his/her subscription as the rest of the world.

 

I am impressed that you (moderators) even bother to remove the name of the software Tom Hiro has developed, when you don't bother to forward the questions to GS. What's the harm of mentioning a working software for WinMo, when GS ignores this issue?

 

Please GS: Do something!

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I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

+1

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I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

The very same goes here!

Thank you fastcatcher for pointing that out.

Link to comment

I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

+1

+2

Link to comment

I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

+1

+2

 

+3.

 

If this is a US based organisation.. A law suit usually can create some interests + changes. Just some bizarre accusations like "Obscured Monopoly against Microsoft" or some sort.... U know what I mean.

Link to comment

I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

+1

+2

 

+3.

 

If this is a US based organisation.. A law suit usually can create some interests + changes. Just some bizarre accusations like "Obscured Monopoly against Microsoft" or some sort.... U know what I mean.

 

+4

Link to comment
I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

4

Link to comment

Perhaps this will help clarify Groundspeak's position on the API.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3617154

 

Hmmm - not really.

I see a lot of questions. I see a big discussion. I see a lot of confusion. I see parts of the strict TOU from GC.

What I don't see are any answer from GC to the open questions.

What I don't see is the willingness from GC to listen, what their members are saying and the will to find a solution both sides can live with.

What I don't see is an explanation why some third parties (e.g. Trimble) can use the API, while it's strictly forbidden (I'm not even allowed to mention the name of those programms here) for others.

 

If you want to convince me, you have to give me some good reasons!

Edited by fastcatcher
Link to comment
I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

4

 

.......and as a contributer to GC and the hobby/sport I want to use my Winows Mobile HTC and the program of "you all know who"

Link to comment

I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

+1

+2

 

+3.

 

If this is a US based organisation.. A law suit usually can create some interests + changes. Just some bizarre accusations like "Obscured Monopoly against Microsoft" or some sort.... U know what I mean.

 

+4

+5

Link to comment

I am a premium member as well. I agree with everyone else here. "The app of which we do not speak" makes me want to geocach more because of the ease of use.

 

I am sorry to say that my renewal date is coming up soon and WILL NOT BE RENEWING if Groundspeak does not start support winmo devices with this app.

 

They have an opportunity to attract more customers with such an app and developer like Tom Hiro.

 

I will also continue to monitor this thread and post with my opinions so we can keep this thread near the top.

Edited by m_s_ifland
Link to comment

Geez I didn't realize Win-mo users were so snobby..

 

Sorry to be so blunt but, wow! You do realize there are countless smartphones on the marketplace, running on one of nearly a dozen different operating systems..

 

Just because Groundspeak doesn’t work on your precious O/S first (or next..) you’re going to pout, pick up you crayons and take them to another playground? Oh well, it was nice knowing you, send a postcard :)

 

Personally I’m an enthusiastic user of Palm webOS, and if some day GS decides to release an official app for it then that’ll be a great day! Until that time comes I will still happily support this fine sport/hobby.

 

The funny thing is, I’d be willing to bet that some of the most vocal Win-mo fanatics in this thread won’t even be Geocaching 6 months from now.. :huh:

Link to comment

Geez I didn't realize Win-mo users were so snobby..

 

Sorry to be so blunt but, wow! You do realize there are countless smartphones on the marketplace, running on one of nearly a dozen different operating systems..

 

Just because Groundspeak doesn’t work on your precious O/S first (or next..) you’re going to pout, pick up you crayons and take them to another playground? Oh well, it was nice knowing you, send a postcard :anicute:

 

Personally I’m an enthusiastic user of Palm webOS, and if some day GS decides to release an official app for it then that’ll be a great day! Until that time comes I will still happily support this fine sport/hobby.

 

The funny thing is, I’d be willing to bet that some of the most vocal Win-mo fanatics in this thread won’t even be Geocaching 6 months from now.. :huh:

 

Well - the point is not, that Groundspeak is not coming up with a solution for the WM-platform first, but that they seem to repress all solutions that don't fit into their business plan (probably because they can't make extra-money with that app, because it was developed by other Geocachers, who are willing to share this programm for free).

 

I might could tell you about a great Geocaching-programm that works fine for the Palm webOS, but unfortunately I'm not allowed to tell you the name in this forum, because otherwise I probably will be immediately shot according to martial law... :)

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Geez I didn't realize Win-mo users were so snobby..

 

Sorry to be so blunt but, wow! You do realize there are countless smartphones on the marketplace, running on one of nearly a dozen different operating systems..

 

 

Yes there are. But iphone, blackberry and winmo hold the most marketshare(you do realize). Or maybe you just wanted to voice a pointless opinion that has nothing to do with this. If you don't like winmo users, then don't read their threads. That's the great thing about these forums, you don't actually have to post when you really don't have anything valid to say.

 

Or, maybe your just bored because your six months are already up.

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There is a private API and it is available for trusted partners. We have no plans to offer an open public API at this time. It was considered in the past but the current decison is to keep it private.

 

Maybe the question should be this:

 

What qualifies as a trusted partner? What would the developer of said WinMo app need to do to be a "trusted partner"?

Link to comment

Regretably, I have cancelled my PM subscription. I was looking forward to getting back to caching, but the lack of support and blocking of 3rd party apps has forced my hand at this... I have had a response to my cancellation message which included this "We continue to strive to make the site accessible to more and more people. I have passed along your reason for canceling your membership to our development team" which gave me a glimmer of hope in the back of my mind, then I read the link that the MOD provided. Even though that post was over a year old, I take it that that is still the policy today? If so, that glimmer of hope has faded, and it certainly doesn't fit into the "We continue to strive to make the site accessible to more and more people" approach.

 

I truly don't understand the "Trusted Partners" approach, when they have added the iPhone app to the list but not allowing other developers... I take it "Trusted" means "Paying". I also don't get the argument that these apps add a huge load to the servers... they don't download the photos or maps, just the info you need and request (beyond the initial cachelist data), which has to be a lot less data load that me sitting here at my PC and coming up with several possible routes that I may travel today, and checking caches along that route, then creating numerous PQ's to get all the data for all 500 caches in each PQ. A mobile app is much less data intensive, and much more efficient and environmentally friendly. It also opens up the sport to a host of new cachers... so what if a load of them disappear after 6 months, a lot will choose to continue. Over the last year 6 of my colleagues have been introduced to this sport through the iPhone app, as far as I'm aware, 4 of them are still participating.

 

Also, I used to own a Palm, and would have died for somethig like this, just because a group of us WinMo fanboys are kicking off and arguing our case, doesn't make it wrong.

 

Anyway, that's it from me, once it gets a touch warmer, I shall be out and about again, hopefully with my phone, if not, with that moldy piece of paper and the rather battered Etrex.

Edited by airprox
Link to comment

There is a private API and it is available for trusted partners. We have no plans to offer an open public API at this time. It was considered in the past but the current decison is to keep it private.

 

Maybe the question should be this:

 

What qualifies as a trusted partner? What would the developer of said WinMo app need to do to be a "trusted partner"?

 

This is exactly the point. I know that I would happily pay for a Preimium membership, and a "Access to the API" fee on top of that if Tom Hiro's software could access it. But but untill that happens, I am happy to geocache for free.

 

I think that part of GS issue is that they make significant money from advertising on the web page. They want you using the web page to get your info so that the advertisers get their moneys worth. I am sure that this revenue source can be replaced with fees as I suggested above.

 

Also... the excuse that screen scarping is hard on thier servers etc. is realy a silly argument. If a user uses the web page instead, he/she will actualy use more bandwidth. Software like Tom's stores cache info so that next time it is viewed, it does not have to be re-downloaded. This software is fundimentaly different than a automatic scraper. In Tom's software, each and every scrape is user initiated no different that if you were using Opera Mobile. An automatad scraper would have sceduled scrapes. I have seen several people request that Tom add an option for this into his app so that they could get notification of new caches or other such things, but he has always refused.

 

And finaly... As far as traffic volume, a lot of Windos Mobile phones are set to appear like a PC. When I access geocaching.com from my phone, the website thinks that I am using a PC, so they realy have no idea what level of traffic is generated from Windows Mobile phones. I suspect it is higher than they realize.

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I've just been reading this thread, after getting a "hair dryer", cuz I mentioned the name of TH's app, but I have to ask a couple of questions:

 

first of all, where is all this advertisement you are talking about? It might just be me, but I can't remember seeing any adverts ( I had to check, and the only ones I've found so far is mini-mini-adverts for TB's and geocaching.com-items).

 

secondly, as andronicus says, I generate _alot_ more traffic on the server from using operam mobile on my HTC HD2, than 1 "search for nearby caches" on TH's app ( I've checked my data log for december (no, I didnt know about the TOU breach)).

 

third, @starbrand, the geocaching live app, is buggy, lacks features, and IMHO should never have left alpha. It might be GS's WM-alibi, but compared to TH's app, its like comparing a model T Ford, and a 2010 Volvo V70 estate.

 

and last, it looks more and more like the GS has forgotten "for geocachers, by geocachers".

Edited by tsolt
Link to comment

In case some of you have totally missed it - there is at least some development work for winmo - the platform is NOT abondoned.

 

http://live.geocaching.com

 

I already tried, but has lots of bugs, a very small number of features and isn't updated since 10/02/2009

 

I agree that is just a piece of junk, unfriendly to use, and ... well I would expect a lot more from version 0.98 while XXXX is 0.2.35.35 and is a lot better, user friendly and ... well I could add a lot more, but you will most-likely moderate this message so why to waste my time :-D

Link to comment

I'm a Premium GC-member.

I'm not happy how GC is handling the situation with the Windows-Mobile-Platform.

I can't understand that only IPhone and Nokia phones are supported.

I have no idea why GC would ban a programm and is not offering any alternatives.

I believe that caching with smartphones is the future.

I confess that I used the program of "you know who" and I admit that I liked it.

I don't feel ashamed for what I did and I probably would do it again.

I believe in the freedom of speech.

I don't know why GC can't make a deal with Tom Hiro to make the whole thing legal.

 

I'm hoping that GC will act a bit more tolerant and listen to their members, who -so far- paid their yearly membership-fee, because they thought they supported a great sport/hobby and an organization "of Geocachers for Geocachers".

 

Agreed....

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