Virtual cache question

[+scrapes]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

[+scrapes]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.What appears to b

 

 

Ahh..."What appears to be Desk Chair Finds Will Be Deleated", never mind, newb question, oh well.

[+ArcherDragoon]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

Besides other issues that I am sure will be stated...the following is simple enough and straight forward enough for me...

 

From the Guidelines...

Virtual Caches
A virtual cache is an existing, permanent landmark of a unique nature. The seeker must answer a question from the landmark and verify to the cache owner that he was physically at the location.

.

.

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Now...would someone pass me some popcorn...

[jholly]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

Many times site specific questions need to be anwered, many times internet searching will not reveal the answer. But yes, some that delight in this type of activity will falsely log a find.

[+TripCyclone]

This activity of researching and completing virtual caches from the comfort of your own home, often called armchair caching, is against guidelines. Owners often will delete the logs of people they suspect to be doing it. On many occasions, too much logging has resulted in the owners getting frustrated and just plain archiving the cache. We had a number of nice virtuals, including several relating to President Truman, in the Kansas City area from one early geocacher who deleted them all because he got tired of it. On some occasions, caches have been locked and archived because of excessive logging.

 

Please don't engage in it. You are only helping an already recognized problem. All it does it lead towards the eventual archiving of that cache.

[+briansnat]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

Because the entire point of geocaching is to use a GPS to find things. Researching things at home may be fun and educational, but it ain't geocaching.

Edited January 13, 2010 by briansnat

[+scrapes]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

Because the entire point of geocaching is to use a GPS to find things. Researching things at home may be fun and educational, but it ain't geocaching.

 

I wouldn't do it, not gonna, no sir! I love the hunt, put 79 miles on the gps so far this month. Beats sitting on the couch. Its great, a good segue til I can get out in the woods backpacking, and now I can cache along the way.

 

Nothing beats standing at the GZ and looking for the cache. As a recent retiree its a great way to get thru the winter.

[+narcissa]

This activity of researching and completing virtual caches from the comfort of your own home, often called armchair caching, is against guidelines. Owners often will delete the logs of people they suspect to be doing it. On many occasions, too much logging has resulted in the owners getting frustrated and just plain archiving the cache. We had a number of nice virtuals, including several relating to President Truman, in the Kansas City area from one early geocacher who deleted them all because he got tired of it. On some occasions, caches have been locked and archived because of excessive logging.

 

Please don't engage in it. You are only helping an already recognized problem. All it does it lead towards the eventual archiving of that cache.

 

It was my impression that those Kansas City virtuals were archived because the cache owner disagreed with the reviewer asking for fake logs to be deleted. Not that I think the owner was in the right, but it is unfortunate that they were archived. I found a couple when I was in the area in 2008 and they were nice virtuals.

[Mr.Yuck]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

Not an interesting question, to be honest. The German's thought of it in 2005 or so. And look what happened. Oh, c'mon, just trying to be funny. Yes, a snippet of the guidelines have been posted, showing that The Powers That Be require an actual visit to the location. Dozens, if not a hundred, of old grandfathered virtuals have been archived due to so-called "abuse" by armchair Google finders. The stance taken by Geocaching.com seems pretty clear in this case.

[+tozainamboku]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

Not an interesting question, to be honest. The German's thought of it in 2005 or so. And look what happened. Oh, c'mon, just trying to be funny. Yes, a snippet of the guidelines have been posted, showing that The Powers That Be require an actual visit to the location. Dozens, if not a hundred, of old grandfathered virtuals have been archived due to so-called "abuse" by armchair Google finders. The stance taken by Geocaching.com seems pretty clear in this case.

It's an interesting question because it's an obvious extension to geocaching. Can't get out to find a cache - why not sit at home and armchair log some virtuals. In the early days there were even caches published - like the now infamous Four Windows that were clearly meant to be found from the comfort of your couch. Geocaching.com felt that it diluted the real purposes of geocaching - that is using a GPS to find hidden objects in the real world. They clarified this in the guidelines but of course this did not stop people from continuing to log armchair finds. Eventually they decided to not allow new virtual caches. Perhaps in part because of the number that were armchair logged, but certainly because they wanted to emphasize that geocaching was meant as a activity where you used a GPS to find a hidden object and too many virtuals weren't this even if you actually went and visited the site. Then they began to archive the remaining virtuals if the owner was allowing armchair logs claiming that this was lack of maintenance.

 

To me the activity always seemed silly but harmless. Someone among TPTB though must feel that a when a virtual is mostly being armchair log it doesn't matter that other people can still visit and find the answers the old fashioned way. Those armchair logs are degrading geocaching and must be stopped. And the way they do it if the owner doesn't delete the armchair logs is to archive the cache.

[+narcissa]

I logged three or four armchair finds quite some time ago, but have since changed them to notes.

[+briansnat]

It's an interesting question because it's an obvious extension to geocaching.

 

I don't see it as an obvious extension to geocaching. Geocaching is about getting out. If anything it is antithesis of geocaching. Internet research has about as much to do with geocaching as watching television.

[+TripCyclone]

This activity of researching and completing virtual caches from the comfort of your own home, often called armchair caching, is against guidelines. Owners often will delete the logs of people they suspect to be doing it. On many occasions, too much logging has resulted in the owners getting frustrated and just plain archiving the cache. We had a number of nice virtuals, including several relating to President Truman, in the Kansas City area from one early geocacher who deleted them all because he got tired of it. On some occasions, caches have been locked and archived because of excessive logging.

 

Please don't engage in it. You are only helping an already recognized problem. All it does it lead towards the eventual archiving of that cache.

 

It was my impression that those Kansas City virtuals were archived because the cache owner disagreed with the reviewer asking for fake logs to be deleted. Not that I think the owner was in the right, but it is unfortunate that they were archived. I found a couple when I was in the area in 2008 and they were nice virtuals.

 

I hadn't heard that. The reason explained to me was that the owner was getting frustrated with the amount of log entries that were coming in from armchair logging. Since they rarely geocache anymore, they were tired of it. Unfortunately, I had not gotten around to doing many of them yet, so I lost the opportunity too. And they were nice virtuals, often taking you to some interesting historical locations around the city.

[+tozainamboku]

It's an interesting question because it's an obvious extension to geocaching.

 

I don't see it as an obvious extension to geocaching. Geocaching is about getting out. If anything it is antithesis of geocaching. Internet research has about as much to do with geocaching as watching television.

Maybe adjunct would have been a better word that extension. What I meant was that this question did not occur to the OP first and this won't be the last time it occurs to someone. Although the guidelines for virtual caches state "the seeker must answer a question from the landmark and verify to the cache owner that he was physically at the location", not everyone reads the guidelines (especially before logging caches - to hide a cache you have to check a box saying you have read and understood the guidelines so I guess anyone who has hidden a cache has read the guidelines ). When stuck at home on a stormy winter day when you can't get out, people look for ways to still participate in geocaching. Perhaps discussing geocaching in the forums, solving some puzzles to get the coordinates, or catching up on logging your previous finds, have as much to do with geocaching as watching television. Perhaps these things are the antithesis of geocaching. (I'm pretty sure posting in the forums is the antithesis of geocaching )

[+scrapes]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

Not an interesting question, to be honest. The German's thought of it in 2005 or so. And look what happened. Oh, c'mon, just trying to be funny. Yes, a snippet of the guidelines have been posted, showing that The Powers That Be require an actual visit to the location. Dozens, if not a hundred, of old grandfathered virtuals have been archived due to so-called "abuse" by armchair Google finders. The stance taken by Geocaching.com seems pretty clear in this case.

It's an interesting question because it's an obvious extension to geocaching. Can't get out to find a cache - why not sit at home and armchair log some virtuals. In the early days there were even caches published - like the now infamous Four Windows that were clearly meant to be found from the comfort of your couch. Geocaching.com felt that it diluted the real purposes of geocaching - that is using a GPS to find hidden objects in the real world. They clarified this in the guidelines but of course this did not stop people from continuing to log armchair finds. Eventually they decided to not allow new virtual caches. Perhaps in part because of the number that were armchair logged, but certainly because they wanted to emphasize that geocaching was meant as a activity where you used a GPS to find a hidden object and too many virtuals weren't this even if you actually went and visited the site. Then they began to archive the remaining virtuals if the owner was allowing armchair logs claiming that this was lack of maintenance.

 

To me the activity always seemed silly but harmless. Someone among TPTB though must feel that a when a virtual is mostly being armchair log it doesn't matter that other people can still visit and find the answers the old fashioned way. Those armchair logs are degrading geocaching and must be stopped. And the way they do it if the owner doesn't delete the armchair logs is to archive the cache.

 

This is spooky, who are the powers that be? Who is Geocaching.com? Who is "they"? What the .........thats strange there's a black helicopter, .

 

Who makes all these decisions, like archiving? I'm hoping its HeadHardHat, seems like a reasonable man.

[Mr.Yuck]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

Not an interesting question, to be honest. The German's thought of it in 2005 or so. And look what happened. Oh, c'mon, just trying to be funny. Yes, a snippet of the guidelines have been posted, showing that The Powers That Be require an actual visit to the location. Dozens, if not a hundred, of old grandfathered virtuals have been archived due to so-called "abuse" by armchair Google finders. The stance taken by Geocaching.com seems pretty clear in this case.

It's an interesting question because it's an obvious extension to geocaching. Can't get out to find a cache - why not sit at home and armchair log some virtuals. In the early days there were even caches published - like the now infamous Four Windows that were clearly meant to be found from the comfort of your couch. Geocaching.com felt that it diluted the real purposes of geocaching - that is using a GPS to find hidden objects in the real world. They clarified this in the guidelines but of course this did not stop people from continuing to log armchair finds. Eventually they decided to not allow new virtual caches. Perhaps in part because of the number that were armchair logged, but certainly because they wanted to emphasize that geocaching was meant as a activity where you used a GPS to find a hidden object and too many virtuals weren't this even if you actually went and visited the site. Then they began to archive the remaining virtuals if the owner was allowing armchair logs claiming that this was lack of maintenance.

 

To me the activity always seemed silly but harmless. Someone among TPTB though must feel that a when a virtual is mostly being armchair log it doesn't matter that other people can still visit and find the answers the old fashioned way. Those armchair logs are degrading geocaching and must be stopped. And the way they do it if the owner doesn't delete the armchair logs is to archive the cache.

 

This is spooky, who are the powers that be? Who is Geocaching.com? Who is "they"? What the .........thats strange there's a black helicopter, .

 

Who makes all these decisions, like archiving? I'm hoping its HeadHardHat, seems like a reasonable man.

 

No, some guy who has been Geocaching less than 2 years is not TPTB. He sure has a high profile though, doesn't he?

 

Groundspeak, Inc. is a privately owned company with about 50 employees, and there is a CEO. I guess you can say he calls all the shots, ultimately.

[+DanOCan]

Wow, this must be the longest thread about Virtuals I have ever seen where no one brought up **cough cough** Waymarking. Whoops!

[+narcissa]

 

I hadn't heard that. The reason explained to me was that the owner was getting frustrated with the amount of log entries that were coming in from armchair logging. Since they rarely geocache anymore, they were tired of it. Unfortunately, I had not gotten around to doing many of them yet, so I lost the opportunity too. And they were nice virtuals, often taking you to some interesting historical locations around the city.

 

I just had a look at the ones I found in that area. The cache owner "Steve Brown" archived his because of the amount of email he was getting. The cache owner "Todd & Tracy" were being pressured to delete armchair finds, and disagreed with the reviewer.

[+Packanack]

Remember, when a person opines:

 

If anything it is antithesis of geocaching.

 

You are free to reject or accept , one great thing about Geocaching is that there is no right way or wrong way to play this game. Play it anyway you want. Just remember that you have to answer only to yourself, even if there is considerable and uncomfortable heat directed your way because of the way you play.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Wow, this must be the longest thread about Virtuals I have ever seen where no one brought up **cough cough** Waymarking. Whoops!

 

Maybe that's because WhyBotherMarking has nothing to do with Geocaching?

[+narcissa]

 

Maybe that's because WhyBotherMarking has nothing to do with Geocaching?

 

IAWTC

[+FatCat2]

Why would you want to log a cache that you haven't visited???? I hope I don't sound unkind, but I am completely baffled.

 

Isn't the point of a virtual cache to share a site so cool that it doesn't need a tupperware box full of toys to merit a fun visit ?? At times a virtual cache often something that is experienced-- not read about (Thinking of "Gravity Hill" virtual cache.)

 

Here is my silly question, going beyond virtual caches, does it really hurt anyone if someone wants to log caches they didn't really visit? It's absurd and mystifying, but who wants to do this and why are people so concerned about this.

[Mr.Yuck]

Why would you want to log a cache that you haven't visited???? I hope I don't sound unkind, but I am completely baffled.

 

Isn't the point of a virtual cache to share a site so cool that it doesn't need a tupperware box full of toys to merit a fun visit ?? At times a virtual cache often something that is experienced-- not read about (Thinking of "Gravity Hill" virtual cache.)

 

Here is my silly question, going beyond virtual caches, does it really hurt anyone if someone wants to log caches they didn't really visit? It's absurd and mystifying, but who wants to do this and why are people so concerned about this.

 

That question has been raised before. I guess it hurts people because several dozen somewhat abandoned virtuals from old-timers who have left the game have been archived involuntarily, and lost to the Geocaching community forever.

 

Also probably not that big of a deal, but I suppose you could say some of them were putting a slight strain on the servers. Some of these abandoned virtuals had a few hundred "Greetings from Germany" type logs posted.

[+TripCyclone]

 

I hadn't heard that. The reason explained to me was that the owner was getting frustrated with the amount of log entries that were coming in from armchair logging. Since they rarely geocache anymore, they were tired of it. Unfortunately, I had not gotten around to doing many of them yet, so I lost the opportunity too. And they were nice virtuals, often taking you to some interesting historical locations around the city.

 

I just had a look at the ones I found in that area. The cache owner "Steve Brown" archived his because of the amount of email he was getting. The cache owner "Todd & Tracy" were being pressured to delete armchair finds, and disagreed with the reviewer.

 

Sorry. I had been referrring to the ones by Steve Brown.

 

Steve Brown archived his because of the e-mails. He doesn't state it, but I have it from a reliable source much closer to Steve than myself that it was a result of the large amount of e-mails coming through from armchair logging. Steve had 25 virtuals. All but one of them were archived all that same time, though log entries show some minor post-logging (including one by me for the purposed of a educational travel bug for some students). All 24 of them were archived for the same reason, the amount of e-mails. You can imagine how having 24 virtuals getting armchair logs, especially if done by one cacher all in the same day, can get annoying. The 25th one was archived because the plaque went missing and never got replaced before a reviewer archived it. And he had some nice virtuals highlighting some interesting history for the area.

 

Todd & Tracy archived four of their six virtuals due to the disagreement (which I didn't know about). The others were because the on site object that contained the clue went missing. They did have some nice virtuals though so it was sad to see them go as I had only found two of them.

 

In the end, that is 28 virtual caches between two users deleted as a result of armchair logging. Yes, four were because the owner felt people should be able to do it, but it also demonstrates that even TPTB don't agree with it.

[+scrapes]

Wow, this must be the longest thread about Virtuals I have ever seen where no one brought up **cough cough** Waymarking. Whoops!

 

OK, I'll bite, what is Waymarking?

[Motorcycle_Mama]

http://www.Waymarking.com/

[+Team Cotati]

Here's an interesting question, to me any way, virtual caches, there is nothing there, its a matter of reporting what is seen. Can you do research at home and then claim the cache? Its a matter of education isn't it? So if someone does the research and can answer correctly why not?

 

There is time being put into the hunt just not the dollars of traveling to these places.

 

No, you can't research at home and claim the cache.

 

Do not even attempt that.

 

The 'Special Patrol' will come and get you.

[+briansnat]

When stuck at home on a stormy winter day when you can't get out, people look for ways to still participate in geocaching. Perhaps discussing geocaching in the forums, solving some puzzles to get the coordinates, or catching up on logging your previous finds, have as much to do with geocaching as watching television. Perhaps these things are the antithesis of geocaching. (I'm pretty sure posting in the forums is the antithesis of geocaching

 

They are legit extensions of geocaching, but they aren't actual geocaching by any stretch. It's why most of us don't log log finds for every ammo box we paint, puzzle we solve or forum post we write. Therein lies the difference.

Edited January 15, 2010 by briansnat

[+wimseyguy]

Who makes all these decisions, like archiving? I'm hoping its HeadHardHat, seems like a reasonable man.

 

You have obviously never met the man.

[+TripCyclone]

Who makes all these decisions, like archiving? I'm hoping its HeadHardHat, seems like a reasonable man.

 

You have obviously never met the man.

 

LOL...I was thinking if he made the decisions, we'd never see another cache larger than a micro ever again. And we would see an influx of elaborate PVC rigs containing 35mm Film Canisters.

[+DeRock & The Psychic Cacher]

No, you can't research at home and claim the cache.

 

Do not even attempt that.

 

The 'Special Patrol' will come and get you.

 

I wish! In fact, I'll even volunteer for the job if Nomex isn't available.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

[Mr.Yuck]

Who makes all these decisions, like archiving? I'm hoping its HeadHardHat, seems like a reasonable man.

 

You have obviously never met the man.

 

LOL...I was thinking if he made the decisions, we'd never see another cache larger than a micro ever again. And we would see an influx of elaborate PVC rigs containing 35mm Film Canisters.

 

Well, the times he's made decisions that are controversial with some of the more "liberal" geocachers, I always joke that after all, he is an "old school" Geocacher, having joined in 2000.

[+wimseyguy]

Which HHH are you talking 'bout Willis?

Headhardhat Member Since: Tuesday, February 19, 2008

[+TripCyclone]

Who makes all these decisions, like archiving? I'm hoping its HeadHardHat, seems like a reasonable man.

 

You have obviously never met the man.

 

LOL...I was thinking if he made the decisions, we'd never see another cache larger than a micro ever again. And we would see an influx of elaborate PVC rigs containing 35mm Film Canisters.

 

Well, the times he's made decisions that are controversial with some of the more "liberal" geocachers, I always joke that after all, he is an "old school" Geocacher, having joined in 2000.

 

Ummm...nope. he joined in 2008.

[Mr.Yuck]

Who makes all these decisions, like archiving? I'm hoping its HeadHardHat, seems like a reasonable man.

 

You have obviously never met the man.

 

LOL...I was thinking if he made the decisions, we'd never see another cache larger than a micro ever again. And we would see an influx of elaborate PVC rigs containing 35mm Film Canisters.

 

Well, the times he's made decisions that are controversial with some of the more "liberal" geocachers, I always joke that after all, he is an "old school" Geocacher, having joined in 2000.

 

Ummm...nope. he joined in 2008.

 

Never mind, I was talking about JI.

 

Kind of funny actually, when Wimseyguy said "the man", I figured he was talking like a hippie would refer to a CEO. You know "stick it to the man, man". Maybe not. Like I said, never mind.

Edited January 16, 2010 by TheWhiteUrkel