Which GPS is used by the largest number of Geocachers?

[+wrkn2mch]

I have an iphone a Meridian Gold and a Garmin vista HCx...... This is just my personal opinion and not stating facts for anyone but myself but i got the iphone for the ability to install the geocaching app so that i can find a close by Cache without having to go back to the computer. I then transfer those waypoint to either my garmin or meridian which are both equally as accurate.... the only difference between those two is the garmin has a better map and the meridian is just a blank screen with a cursor of where i am at (no map installed ...map not needed for me in the woods i just open my eyes and look around) sometimes the old meridian gold even gets me closer...... but the iphone can't compare to me to a dedicated gps (whatever brand) iphone tells me what cache's are near me ...... dedicated gps gets me there.

That It

Joe

[+user13371]

I have an iphone a Meridian Gold and a Garmin vista HCx...

But did you list all of those in the "My Devices" side of your GC.com account profile?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/account/default.aspx

[NordicMan]

 

In DeLorme's case, the PN-30 just did get into their top three today...

 

 

..I though DeLorme only had 3 GPSr's? then I notice they also have bluetooth GPS receviers too lol

 

Yeah this thread had reminded me to update my device list too, which I guess is a by-product perk of this discussion

[+wrkn2mch]

I have an iphone a Meridian Gold and a Garmin vista HCx...

But did you list all of those in the "My Devices" side of your GC.com account profile?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/account/default.aspx

No..... Only the Garmin which throws those earlier mentioned stats way off as i am sure others have done the same

Think i'll update it now

Joe

Edited September 26, 2009 by wrkn2mch

[+Curioddity]

OK, time for another point: I have three GPS devices listed in my profile: An Oregon 400t, a nuvi 500, and a GPS12; all Garmin. The Oregon is my newest, and the GPSr I use almost exclusively for geocaching. The nuvi lives in the car, and I've had the GPS12 since 2000.

 

I bought the nuvi to replace the GPS12 when I started caching, and shortly thereafter I purchased the Oregon because while the nuvi works great for on-road navigation, I was dissatisfied with how it worked as a geocaching tool. I still use the nuvi while I'm driving to where I want to cache hunt and I've been out "nostalga caching" a couple of times with the GPS12 just for the fun of it, but for all practical purposes my Oregon is my geocaching GPS.

 

Yet I have all three listed in my geocaching.com profile. While this may say something about brand-loyalty, many would also say that it statistically flaws the matrix being discussed in this thread. Heck, I also have a Garmin 'aviation' GPS which cost more than twice what all three of the others cost combined. Theoretically I could geocache with it too, so maybe it should be listed in my profile as well.

 

Pete

Edited September 26, 2009 by Curioddity

[+briansnat]

I can't believe people are arguing over the facts that Lee presented. Sure the data is flawed, but it it probably isn't that far off. The empirical evidence backs it up. Go to an event and take a look at what GPS people have.

The 60CSX is in the overwhelming majority. You see some Oregons, PN40s and eTrex units, Colorados and even the occasional Magellan, but I bet that the 60CSX users at any event outnumber all other models combined.

 

As Lee said this is not a judgment about the respective qualities of the units, but simply of the popularity. It's funny how the DeLorme fanboys can't even accept that.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I can't believe people are arguing over the facts that Lee presented. Sure the data is flawed, but it it probably isn't that far off. The empirical evidence backs it up. Go to an event and take a look at what GPS people have.

The 60CSX is in the overwhelming majority. You see some Oregons, PN40s and eTrex units, Colorados and even the occasional Magellan, but I bet that the 60CSX users at any event outnumber all other models combined.

 

As Lee said this is not a judgment about the respective qualities of the units, but simply of the popularity. It's funny how the DeLorme fanboys can't even accept that.

 

You know, you want friendlier forums, how about stopping the branding of people just because we favor one brand or another.

 

It's NOT a poll of who is most popular, how could it be? At best, it's a poll of availability. The DeLorme has been in market for a few short years compared to the 60CSx, OBVIOUSLY, the 60CSx will be more widely used. The DeLorme isn't sold overseas, so again, the 60CSx will be the primary unit skewing the numbers more.

 

You'll not get TRUE results with the search you're doing.

Edited September 28, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[+user13371]

Roddy AND Brian -- this isn't about DeLorme.

 

But the argument that Garmin's disproportionately high numbers over DeLorme or anyone else are largely a matter of time on market or international sales is simply wrong.

 

Let's look at that "international vs domestic" aspect first:

 

"Geocaching" is an international sport, but the majority of geocaches and cachers are in the USA (I believe it's a little over 60%, anyone else seen recent numbers on this?). If anything, a poll taken among Geocachers would be biased in favor what is used in the USA rather than internationally.

 

But even if you take a wild guess about how many of those geocachers reporting Garmin users are outside of the USA -- perhaps take all of Garmin's numbers and cut them in half -- you'd still find the GPS60csx and a few other Garmin models reported in use by more cachers than the top models of the next three brands combined.

 

As for time on market and/or international available, the GPS60csx has only been available since 2006. Compare its numbers to Magellan's entire product line over that companies' entire lifetime. I use Magellan as the example here for three reasons: To point out that I'm not singling out DeLorme; because Magellan has had wide market presence in handheld GPSRs for a longer time; and because Magellan DOES market internationally -- and did so even before they were bought by Thales (a French company).

 

Now, I've been told that my "careful dismantling of words" annoys some folks -- but Roddy, I do take exception to one of your remarks and must ask you to clarify or retract:

You'll not get honest results with the search you're doing.

The results I posted are simply the raw numbers of information provided voluntarily by GC.com's registered users. What is dishonest about that? What would you do to get more "honest" results than asking thousands (hundreds of thousands? millions?) of cachers what GPSR they're using?

 

Words have meanings - please use them carefully.

Edited September 28, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Rockin Roddy]

NEVERMIND!!

Edited September 28, 2009 by Rockin Roddy

[robertlipe]

Questioning the honesty implies an intent to deceive. The research has all been laid out. I don't see how the numbers are manipulated. Is this really the ground you want to take on this one? Answer carefully.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Questioning the honesty implies an intent to deceive. The research has all been laid out. I don't see how the numbers are manipulated. Is this really the ground you want to take on this one? Answer carefully.

 

My answer is that it's obvious my wording has been misunderstood. No worries, I will simply delete my post and IGNORE this thread since ANYTHING I say will oprobably be misunderstood further.

 

FOR THE RECORD: NEVER did I call anyone a liar, NOR did I say anyone was manipulating the data. I said it was incomplete and therefore misleading. I also showed why and gave a way to make the data more useful. I wasn't trying to make waves, but to help and now feel I'm targeted for that?

[+user13371]

Roddy - nobody is "targeting you" personally. It's simply that what you said doesn't make sense, and you said it in a way the couldn't help but "make waves."

 

The problem here is that you're using words in ways few other people would, and that leads to misunderstanding.

 

When you say someone is "misleading" or "not honest" -- most people would read that as the same as being called a liar. When you put a "wink" at the end of it and then say "I never called anyone a liar" it seems like you're trying to wriggle out of it.

 

Going back and editting/deleting posts, or changing a word from "honest" to "TRUE" doesn't cut it either.

 

Now, here you're not just pointing it at me, but at thousands of folks who replied to GC.com's ongoing survey, and to GC.com management for presenting the raw data.

 

Let's try framing this differntly, maybe about something you care less about than GPS brands.

 

Suppose a survey showed Pepsodent outsells Tom's Natural toothpaste by about 1000 to 1. You could say this is partly because Tom's is from a smaller company and not as widely available as Pepsodent -- you'd be at least partly right, and nobody could argue. But to say the survey was "not honest" or the results weren't "true" just doesn't make any sense.

 

Woody Allen said 80% of success is showing up.

 

Ringo Starr said the Beatles were popular because a lot of people liked them.

 

The same applies to toothpaste and GPS units.

Edited September 28, 2009 by lee_rimar

[robertlipe]

Guys, let this go. Now.

[+user13371]

Total of "Top 3" units in several brands, as reported "owned by GC.com registered users," updated 10/01/09

MAKER.......09/24 ..09/25 ..10/01

---------------------------------

GARMIN .....51162 ..51297 ..51935

APPLE ..... 24032 ..24208 ..25072

MAGELLAN ....7078 ...7090 ...7158

DELORME .....4569 ...4591 ...4653

LOWRANCE .....929 ....929 ....939

[+Wogus!]

Total of "Top 3" units in several brands, as reported "owned by GC.com registered users," updated 10/01/09...

Dull, yet boring.

 

 

 

 

/yawn

[+user13371]

Well, I was gonna put a little more analysis in along the lines of how/why the numbers change -- including a repeat of the question if this thread itself is prompting folks to put the information into their profiles. I might start looking at why number os specific models within a brand go up. The only obvious reason would be newer models pushing aside legacy ones in the listings (e.g. Lowrance Endura or DeLorme PN-30 moving up while count of older models within those brands stay relatively static).

 

It's only boring to someone who isn't interested

Edited October 1, 2009 by lee_rimar

[JDiablo]

Well, I was gonna put a little more analysis in along the lines of how/why the numbers change -- including a repeat of the question if this thread itself is prompting folks to put the information into their profiles.

I didn't know about the profile and have since added the data. Thanks for the heads up.

[+user13371]

Some have complained that GC.com's user data posted in this thread gives the short-shrift to products not available outside the of the USA, and thatwhat geocachers buy is influenced by what's most widely available in stores or online.

 

I'm not sure how that invalidates the numbers as reported by GC.com users, but it did make me think about what GPS buyers "at large" would opt for. So I looked at Amazon.com, because:

 

- They're a well known, very large online-reseller

- Sells current models of all brands under discussion here

- Provides a Top 100 best seller's list for every category

- When you look at Amazon.COM (vs .CO.UK for example), you get best-seller lists for the USA instead of international.

 

Looking in the category of "Electronics > GPS & Navigation" gave a few surprises. Most of the "Top 100" are car-nav units. Very few handheld GPSRs, but here they are in order of Amazon's sales rank:

 

#16: Garmin GPS 60CSX

#27: Garmin eTrex Venture HC

#29: Garmin eTrex Vista HCx

#42: Garmin eTrex H

#60: Garmin Rino 530Hcx

#62: Garmin Oregon 400T

#94: DeLorme PN-30 "Real Tree" Camo

 

No real surprises about Garmin's popularity there, but this also should cheer DeLorme fans. DeLorme is the only other vendor with a handheld in the top 100.

 

But don't blink! In the time it took me to type this, the PN-30's spot in the ranking shifted a couple of times. It was #94 when I started typing but it may be elsewhere or absent when you look it it up!

 

And one last note, taking this back to Searching_UT's question "What percentage of GPS owners overall are geocachers?" Probably very few -- judging from Amazon's sale, the majority of GPS owners are DRIVERS

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

You can actually drill down farther, and just look at handhelds, but the rankings do fluctuate dramatically. They are updated hourly. Sale prices can give a particular unit a significant bump.

[GOF and Bacall]

...

And one last note, taking this back to Searching_UT's question "What percentage of GPS owners overall are geocachers?" Probably very few -- judging from Amazon's sale, the majority of GPS owners are DRIVERS

 

Why is this surprising? Most mainstream marketing I've seen for GPS is aimed at drivers. Most displays of GPS receivers in anything but outdoors stores have a bunch of driving types and one or two hand helds. Even in these forums we se statements like "I was looking online for information on my new Nuvi and found this site. Can I use it for geocaching?"

 

Seems like we tend to view the subject from our own narrow point of view. We sometimes forget that even with the many thousands of us that cache we are still "fringe" market for manufacturers. I'll give you not as "fringe" as we used to be, but "fringe" none the less.

[+user13371]

You can actually drill down farther, and just look at handhelds

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/elect...ref=pd_ts_e_nav

Good point -- I completely missed that. I'll look there in more detail later. Thanks!

 

rankings do fluctuate dramatically. They are updated hourly. Sale prices can give a particular unit a significant bump.

Yup. I was thinking the really good pricing on the PN-30 (both green and camo) at $199 was probably a big part of it being up there. Edited October 2, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+user13371]

Total of "Top 3" units in several brands, as reported "owned by GC.com registered users," updated 12/13/09. Note jumps in reported owners for each brand since October, after the start of the holiday shopping season.

MAKER.......09/24 ..09/25 ..10/01 ..12/13

-----------------------------------------

GARMIN .....51162 ..51297 ..51935 ..57960

APPLE ..... 24032 ..24208 ..25072 ..32878

MAGELLAN ....7078 ...7090 ...7158 ...7935

DELORME .....4569 ...4591 ...4653 ...5427

LOWRANCE .....929 ....929 ....939 ...1028

Edited December 14, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+bunkerdave]

I guess I am to blame for padding a lot of numbers...I have upgraded many times, and have yet to sell or give up a GPS. To date I own my original Magellan Map330, a 60CS, a 60CSx, a Garmin iQue, a Garmin Oregon 400T (recenly stolen) a GeoMate jr., a Nuvi 250w and a Oregon 550T (on the FedEx truck, as I type this). I have found at least one cache with all of them, and have used other borrowed units just to see how I liked them.

 

Interesting to see the numbers on the iPhone. I have used one (my girlfriend has the 3GS) and we use it all the time. I can't say I am impressed with the compass function, however. I love the app, love the maps, love the connectivity. It is simply amazing to have such access to the GC.com site from a phone. I was using my 400T on hunts with her, but the nice thing was that she would have the phone out, and have the satellite map, and latest logs/cache status right in front of her. Can't tell you how nice it is to be heading for a cache I had in my Oregon, only to have her inform me that the cache just went inactive earlier that same day. What's more, while I am rummaging through the cache and signing the log, she's logging the cache online! Not a fieldnote, which I have been doing for a while from my phone via textmarks, but actually logging the cache. I think the days of Garmin being the leading seller of Geocaching GPS are numbered. I will always use a dedicated GPS to geocache, and I am pretty sure that GPS will always be a Garmin, but as soon as my contract with Verizon is up in April, I am getting an iPhone, and the first app I will download is the Geocache Navigator. I really donm't see why it needs to be an either/or question. If one does one thing better, but the other does something else better...just break open your kid's piggy bank and get both!

[+bunkerdave]

... i got the iphone for the ability to install the geocaching app so that i can find a close by Cache without having to go back to the computer. I then transfer those waypoint to either my garmin or meridian which are both equally as accurate....... but the iphone can't compare to me to a dedicated gps (whatever brand) iphone tells me what cache's are near me ...... dedicated gps gets me there.

That It

Joe

 

Yep..that's exactly how I use the iPhone too. I have a netbook with broadband internet that I take everywhere also, so if the iPhone is not available, I just do a quick Pocket Query and load all the nearby caches in the Oregon when I am ready to go caching. It's not quite "real time" like the iPhone, but close enough. That said, I still love the up-to-the-second data, the satellite maps, and logging on the go that we get from the iPhone. Sure, I can do all that with the netbook, but as small as it is, it's still too big to carry around (although I have been known to do that from time to time, also.)

 

I am interested in knowing why people use the GPS units they use. That usually reveals the most valuable features of any given unit, and sometimes there are functions unique to that unit that you really don't get anywhere else. Like with the PN-40 and the satellite images, for example. (personally, I think the iPhone does this MUCH better, but that's me) I borrowed a friend's Triton 2000 for a while, and while it had some cool bells and whistles (most of which had nothing to do with the GPS) I hated it for geocaching. But, I know many cachers love it, too. I'd be interested to hear why. Not that I am about to go out and buy another one, but it's nice to know what I might be missing.

[+JBnW]

 

I am interested in knowing why people use the GPS units they use. That usually reveals the most valuable features of any given unit, and sometimes there are functions unique to that unit that you really don't get anywhere else. <snip>

Well, since you asked, I use a GPSMap 76 CSx, and its the second I've had. Besides the oft-stated reliability (GPS-wise) of the 60-76 series, this one also floats (as advertised, YMMV). I know this is a strange topic in these forums, but GPSes get used for other things besides geocaching, and, well, I've been boating long enough to know that eventually, something's going in the water. I just wanted that extra chance of saving it. Nothing against gadgets that have GPS functionality built in as an extra (phones, etc), but I doubt any of those would survive even a quick dunking, let alone float around for a while. My .02. Cheers!

[+user13371]

This is a slightly different chart than I posted before.

 

Columns 10/01 and 12/20 show the total number of geocachers reporting ownership of the top three units from each maker on that date. The Gain column is the number of units gained in that period, and the % column is what percentage of the current total is represented by the recent gains.

MAKER.......10/01 ..12/20 .. Gain ... %

-----------------------------------------

GARMIN .....51935 ..58273 .. 6338 .. 10%

APPLE ......25072 ..33224 .. 8152 .. 25%

MAGELLAN ....7158 .. 7973 ... 815 .. 10%

DELORME .....4653 .. 5499 ... 846 .. 15%

Draw your own conclusions about what this means in the battle of the brands for geocaching specifically and "fair weather GPS users" in general.

Edited December 20, 2009 by lee_rimar