Question about difficulty rating...

[+texasgrillchef]

Just a simple question, or at least I think its simple. Just curious about your opinions and thoughts about the difficulty rating used on cache pages.

 

Do you view the difficulty rating as how hard it is to find the cache?

 

OR

 

How hard it is to retrieve the cache?

 

OR

 

Both?

 

If your hiding a cache, how much "weight" do you put on each aspect? (finding vs. retrieving)

 

I ask this because...

 

I do view finding a cache differently than retrieving a cache. I have a cache/hide that I am considering. It will be very easy to get to it so a terrain rating of 1.5 (because wheelchairs won't be able to get to it). Easy to find... probably a 1 or 1.5. Yet even though you "See" it & go... "Oh there it is"... doesn't mean it will be easy to retrieve.

 

Example... I place a cache in a natural (Non man made) "hole" in the ground or cave. You can look in and see it. But because the hole is deeper than your arm, but smaller than your body you won't be able to grab it. You will have to use a "Tool" of some kind to retrieve the cache. (This is just an example... not what my proposed cache would actually be) By tool, I mean some device that won't harm the enviroment, or dig out the cache or violate the policy/rule/regulation of "No pointy things".

 

Again the example is just an example and is not the representation of the actual proposed cache I am considering. Assume that for the purposes of my question that the example cache hide & my real cache hide will meet all requirments that geocaching.com has & will be published.

 

I am only asking for your thoughts and opinions about difficulty rating and how you preceive this value. This is not meant to be a debate or argument about who is right or wrong.

 

TGC

[CoyoteRed]

The difficulty is how hard it is to complete the find (sign the logbook) without consideration to the terrain. If you only consider difficulty up to the point where you lay eyes on the cache then you'll leave part of the hunt without a rating.

 

The dilemma has come up quite often. A similar situation is a puzzle cache. Do you only consider the difficulty of the puzzle and not the real-world hide? Of course not.

 

Just consider the difficulty how hard it is between the time you read the cache page and signing the logbook without considering the physical difficulty of getting your carcass to each stage.

 

The problem comes in when difficulty and terrain start to blur. For instance, I've long wanted to put out a cache that could go either way. You follow your GPS and would logically find yourself on an abandoned bridge 50' above the water as you home in on GZ. Your GPS starts to swift to the left and you find the cache on a pylon of a destroyed bridge some 50' away and 20' above the water. You're separated from the cache by some 30' to 40' of air. Examination of the pylon reveals there is no way to climb it--it's sheer. It's too far out to swing over. This part of the bridge is obviously in the deepest part of the lake because this is where the bridge is the highest for navigation.

 

Now, the terrain is a no-brainer--5 stars. Boat. Climbing gear. Vertical ascent. What's the difficulty? Easy to find. Easy to access once you get to it. It's the getting there part that's hard.

 

If I ever get around to placing this cache it'll be listed as a 1/5.

[knowschad]

I think that CoyoteRed did a pretty good job of explaining how the D & T ratings are traditionally used. He also was right in pointing out that the two blur sometimes, and in those cases, be just use our best judgement. In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

 

 

"Terrain", by the way, is probably a somewhat misstated term. Anything having to do with the physical aspect of retrieving the cache... not simply how hard the hike is... goes here.

[CoyoteRed]

In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

Really? I don't see his example as any different than a micro down a hollow fence post where you have to use a piece of wire to retrieve. It's just a bit larger scale.

 

Oops, better make it a puzzle!

[CoyoteRed]

"Terrain", by the way, is probably a somewhat misstated term. Anything having to do with the physical aspect of retrieving the cache... not simply how hard the hike is... goes here.

Maybe to clarify even further what I call "terrain" is the physical aspect of getting your person to the cache or stage to retrieve a cache or hint.

 

For instance, the difference between climbing a tree and lowering a cache down from a tree. Say both have terrain of 1 star to get to the tree. If you have to climb the tree, then the terrain goes up. If you have to find the string that lowers the cache to the ground, the difficulty goes up, not the terrain. In short, it's not just the physical part of the hunt, but the physical part of getting your body to where it needs to be. I mean, lowering a 50lb cache from a large tree might be physical (if you didn't just drop it), but I wouldn't consider it part of the terrain rating.

[+StarBrand]

Terrain rating is for how hard it was to get to the spot where the cache is.

 

Difficulty rating is for how hard it is to find the cache and sign the logsheet once you are at the spot.

[+ArcherDragoon]

I think that CoyoteRed did a pretty good job of explaining how the D & T ratings are traditionally used. He also was right in pointing out that the two blur sometimes, and in those cases, be just use our best judgement. In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

 

 

"Terrain", by the way, is probably a somewhat misstated term. Anything having to do with the physical aspect of retrieving the cache... not simply how hard the hike is... goes here.

Did you mean Low Terrain, High(er than normal) Difficulty???

 

I gotta go with CoyoteRed...based on what supplied as a descriptive by the OP...

 

Edit: What StarBrand Said!!!

Edited September 15, 2009 by ArcherDragoon

[knowschad]

I think that CoyoteRed did a pretty good job of explaining how the D & T ratings are traditionally used. He also was right in pointing out that the two blur sometimes, and in those cases, be just use our best judgement. In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

 

 

"Terrain", by the way, is probably a somewhat misstated term. Anything having to do with the physical aspect of retrieving the cache... not simply how hard the hike is... goes here.

Did you mean Low Terrain, High(er than normal) Difficulty???

 

I gotta go with CoyoteRed...based on what supplied as a descriptive by the OP...

 

Edit: What StarBrand Said!!!

 

 

You will have to use a "Tool" of some kind to retrieve the cache.

 

 

No, I mean Higher Terrain, based on the above statement by the OP. But really, it's hard to say in the hypothetical.

[+niraD]

I do view finding a cache differently than retrieving a cache.

Yes, finding a cache is different from retrieving a cache, and both are different from solving a puzzle. But we don't have separate ratings for all these aspects of the cache hunt: we just have a single difficulty rating. So the question is really, what is terrain and what is difficulty?

 

IMHO, terrain is the challenge of getting to GZ, and difficulty is everything else.

 

The lines can get a bit blurry for certain caches though. Where is GZ? Is GZ where the cache is located? Is GZ the location above/below the cache from which you will retrieve the cache?

 

Sometimes, caches that require special tools to retrieve are listed as high terrain. Sometimes they're listed as high difficulty. I think it depends on whether the cache owner expects seekers to use special equipment to move themselves to the cache (e.g., climbing a tree or cliff, which is terrain), or to use special equipment to bring the cache to them (e.g., using a tool on a long pole to grab the cache, which is difficulty).

[+Taoiseach]

In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

Really? I don't see his example as any different than a micro down a hollow fence post where you have to use a piece of wire to retrieve. It's just a bit larger scale.

 

Oops, better make it a puzzle!

 

 

The difference here, however, is that the challenge is retrieving the cache, not trying to figure out where the log book is hidden inside of a puzzle container, or how to even open the puzzle container in the first place.

 

If the OP provided a retrieval tool, it would be just like a fence post cap cache (i.e. Difficulty 2-1/2 max, if it isn't attached to the cache itself like a wire might be), however if the finder has to fashion (or bring) something of their own to the cache site, and then use it to hook and retrieve the cache, I would tend to call that special equipment (i.e. Terrain 5 automatically).

 

^ Note the differences in what changes

[+ArcherDragoon]

I think that CoyoteRed did a pretty good job of explaining how the D & T ratings are traditionally used. He also was right in pointing out that the two blur sometimes, and in those cases, be just use our best judgement. In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

 

 

"Terrain", by the way, is probably a somewhat misstated term. Anything having to do with the physical aspect of retrieving the cache... not simply how hard the hike is... goes here.

Did you mean Low Terrain, High(er than normal) Difficulty???

 

I gotta go with CoyoteRed...based on what supplied as a descriptive by the OP...

 

Edit: What StarBrand Said!!!

 

 

You will have to use a "Tool" of some kind to retrieve the cache.

 

 

No, I mean Higher Terrain, based on the above statement by the OP. But really, it's hard to say in the hypothetical.

I still gotta go with a High(er) Difficulty vs Terrain with that statement...

 

Taken from the Geocache Rating System-in reference to difficulty (I know...not written in stone, but it sure helps...)

How easy is it to find the cache?
(1)	Cache is in plain sight or location is fairly obvious.
(2)	Cache could be in one of several locations. Hunter may have to look for a while.
(3)	Cache may be very well hidden, may be multi-leg, or may use clues to location.
(4)	Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find
(5)	Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.

Edited September 15, 2009 by ArcherDragoon

[+ArcherDragoon]

In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

Really? I don't see his example as any different than a micro down a hollow fence post where you have to use a piece of wire to retrieve. It's just a bit larger scale.

 

Oops, better make it a puzzle!

 

 

The difference here, however, is that the challenge is retrieving the cache, not trying to figure out where the log book is hidden inside of a puzzle container, or how to even open the puzzle container in the first place.

 

If the OP provided a retrieval tool, it would be just like a fence post cap cache (i.e. Difficulty 2-1/2 max, if it isn't attached to the cache itself like a wire might be), however if the finder has to fashion (or bring) something of their own to the cache site, and then use it to hook and retrieve the cache, I would tend to call that special equipment (i.e. Terrain 5 automatically).

 

^ Note the differences in what changes

...but..."Equipment" can be used for getting to the location (referring to terrain)...and used for retrieval of the cache (referring to difficulty)...

 

Just because I may need a stick with a hook to get a cache doesn't make something a 5-Terrain...

[+ArcherDragoon]

Difficulty rating:
* 	Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.
** 	Average. The average cache hunter would be able to find this in less than 30 minutes of hunting.
*** 	Challenging. An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon.
**** 	Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.
***** 	Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

Terrain rating:
* 	Handicapped accessible. (Terrain is likely to be paved, is relatively flat, and less than a 1/2 mile hike is required.)
** 	Suitable for small children. (Terrain is generally along marked trails, there are no steep elevation changes or heavy overgrowth. Less than a 2 mile hike required.)
*** 	Not suitable for small children. (The average adult or older child should be OK depending on physical condition. Terrain is likely off-trail. May have one or more of the following: some overgrowth, some steep elevation changes, or more than a 2 mile hike.)
**** 	Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. (Terrain is probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or more than a 10 mile hike. May require an overnight stay.)
***** 	Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience, (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

Just because Difficulty may be a 5 in some cases does not equate to Terrain also being a 5 (same could be said the other way)...Sure, tools may be needed...but there are different sets of tools used for each...

Edited September 15, 2009 by ArcherDragoon

[CoyoteRed]

...however if the finder has to fashion (or bring) something of their own to the cache site, and then use it to hook and retrieve the cache, I would tend to call that special equipment (i.e. Terrain 5 automatically).

As been pointed out already, specialized equipment can be part of the difficulty, too. I wouldn't call a stick with a hook specialized equipment, more like improvised equipment. Personally, based only on having to use a hook to lift a cache out of a hole, I'd only put the difficulty as 3 stars unless the cache is really hard to hook. I'd probably bump it to 4 if there is little to no materials around with which to improvise a tool thus forcing a second trip.

[+texasgrillchef]

Ok I'' bust out my true thoughts...

 

I was thinking about placing a 4" - 6' long PVC pipe in a certain location. (With permission). The PVC pipe would be in the vertical position & fixed in a way that the pipe could not be moved or adjusted or tilted. How the pipe is fixed to it's location would be with full permission of land owner. (A relative) So their wouldn't be issues of how or where it was placed.

 

The pipe would be painted & cammoed to blend in with it's surroundings. & would have a typical temporary rubber cap placed on it's top that could be removed without tools. The purpose of the cap. To keep water out of the pipe.

 

At the bottom of the pipe, would be a 1.5 liter water bottle. That is the cache container itself. But fixed to the bottom & top of it would be a peice of steel. Enough to add about 8 ouces to the total weight of it, AND to provide a way to get it out of the pipe. There would be no "Hooks" for someone to "hook" on to it to retrieve it.

 

The idea of HOW to retrieve it.... You need a good magnet, on a string to retrieve it. I have tested the weight with magnets on a string that I have, and it easily can retrieve the container out of the pipe, even if I had 4 more pounds to it. At least with my magnet set I have. Total weight of container as it would be placed with log & all treasures. About 2lbs.

 

Finding the pipe, I would say I would rate at a 1, once your at GZ, even with it camoed, it will be obvious. Unless your on planet 9. Maybe a 1.5 on difficulty.

 

Terrain to get there would be a 1.5 as you would be able to park 50' away. A wheelchair coud not get their as it is in a grassy area & you would have to dodge a few very small landscaped bushes.

 

What would you rate this cache hide? Difficulty and Terrain?

 

No my cache hide won't have a string, or a magnet near by. You would have to bring your own. The hint would be.... "Gone fishing with a magnet"

 

TGC

Edited September 17, 2009 by texasgrillchef

[GOF and Bacall]

An argument could be made for rating it a 5* difficulty. Special equipment required. I'd think a 3.5 or 4 would be more accurate.

 

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

[CoyoteRed]

What would you rate this cache hide? Difficulty and Terrain?

 

No my cache hide won't have a string, or a magnet near by. You would have to bring your own. The hint would be.... "Gone fishing with a magnet"

The difficulty is in the retrieval of the cache, not getting your body to the point where you can retrieve it. Terrain would not be modified.

 

The difficulty of retrieval is the issue. I take it the open end would be 6' or greater off the ground. A person would need to see down into the tube to figure out a way to retrieve. Not everyone reads the hint right off. Then they would have to determine what tool to use. The hint you propose would do better in the description. I'd leave something more cryptic in the hint section.

 

I wouldn't call a magnet "specialized." I carry one. I'd probably be able to retrieve the cache within a few minutes with what I had on hand. Some would argue for 5 stars as they would consider a magnet as specialized equipment. I concur with GOF above 3.5 or 4. A return trip or two with the right gear is what I'm looking at.

[+StarBrand]

 

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

And a commonly used one as well.

 

I'd rate it around 3.5 - 4 for difficulty - as multiple trips might be required. You might be surprised at the ingenuity of finders though. We had a similar one here in town and finders used at least 6 or 7 different methods of retrieval.

[+ArcherDragoon]

I wouldn't call a magnet "specialized."

Especially since you can get an OK magnet and some string to do the job at any corner big box store...

 

I would agree...terrain about 1/1.5 if you are concerned about that...but probably a 3.5/4 difficulty...

[+texasgrillchef]

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

 

Which is? I did top put a light coating of a non stick oil based on the metal. So if your thinking along the lines of something sticky. It won't adheer (sp?) very well if at all.

 

TGC

 

I have tried to make this as difficult to retrieve as possible without making it impossible. I increased the weight so it would take a larger than average magnet. The container in the pipe (Including the attached steel plates) have about 3mm of space between it & the PVC pipe. So it creates resistance if you try to pull the container up to fast. The surface of the steel has been coated with an anti-stick substance as well as roughened up so that a suction type plunger device won't work. (The suction cup won't stay stuck).

 

Because the pipe is 6', shorter people will need a mirror to see down the pipe.

Edited September 18, 2009 by texasgrillchef

[GOF and Bacall]

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

 

Which is? I did top put a light coating of a non stick oil based on the metal. So if your thinking along the lines of something sticky. It won't adheer (sp?) very well if at all.

 

TGC

 

Non-stick oil doesn't float my boat.

[knowschad]

I think that CoyoteRed did a pretty good job of explaining how the D & T ratings are traditionally used. He also was right in pointing out that the two blur sometimes, and in those cases, be just use our best judgement. In the case you your example, easy to spot, tough to grab, I think most of us would agree that would be low difficulty, high terrain.

 

 

"Terrain", by the way, is probably a somewhat misstated term. Anything having to do with the physical aspect of retrieving the cache... not simply how hard the hike is... goes here.

Did you mean Low Terrain, High(er than normal) Difficulty???

 

I gotta go with CoyoteRed...based on what supplied as a descriptive by the OP...

 

Edit: What StarBrand Said!!!

 

 

You will have to use a "Tool" of some kind to retrieve the cache.

 

 

No, I mean Higher Terrain, based on the above statement by the OP. But really, it's hard to say in the hypothetical.

I still gotta go with a High(er) Difficulty vs Terrain with that statement...

 

Taken from the Geocache Rating System-in reference to difficulty (I know...not written in stone, but it sure helps...)

How easy is it to find the cache?
(1)	Cache is in plain sight or location is fairly obvious.
(2)	Cache could be in one of several locations. Hunter may have to look for a while.
(3)	Cache may be very well hidden, may be multi-leg, or may use clues to location.
(4)	Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find
(5)	Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.

 

 

Ahhh. good ol' Clayjar. I haven't tried to work it out with Clayjar. I would assume that in the block that you quoted, you would have selected "5", so how does that work out? I thought a "5" in that block would be applied to terrain. Am I mistaken?

[knowschad]

...however if the finder has to fashion (or bring) something of their own to the cache site, and then use it to hook and retrieve the cache, I would tend to call that special equipment (i.e. Terrain 5 automatically).

As been pointed out already, specialized equipment can be part of the difficulty, too. I wouldn't call a stick with a hook specialized equipment, more like improvised equipment. Personally, based only on having to use a hook to lift a cache out of a hole, I'd only put the difficulty as 3 stars unless the cache is really hard to hook. I'd probably bump it to 4 if there is little to no materials around with which to improvise a tool thus forcing a second trip.

 

 

Oh oh... So, you mean that a cache that requires a 25-30 foot pole with a hook on the end to retrieve from flat ground maybe shouldn't be rated a terrain 5? OK... I'm in trouble now!!

 

[GOF and Bacall]

...however if the finder has to fashion (or bring) something of their own to the cache site, and then use it to hook and retrieve the cache, I would tend to call that special equipment (i.e. Terrain 5 automatically).

As been pointed out already, specialized equipment can be part of the difficulty, too. I wouldn't call a stick with a hook specialized equipment, more like improvised equipment. Personally, based only on having to use a hook to lift a cache out of a hole, I'd only put the difficulty as 3 stars unless the cache is really hard to hook. I'd probably bump it to 4 if there is little to no materials around with which to improvise a tool thus forcing a second trip.

 

 

Oh oh... So, you mean that a cache that requires a 25-30 foot pole with a hook on the end to retrieve from flat ground maybe shouldn't be rated a terrain 5? OK... I'm in trouble now!!

 

 

Depends. Is the 25 foot pole supplied near the cache or do you expect the finder to bring his or her own pole?

[+texasgrillchef]

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

 

Which is? I did top put a light coating of a non stick oil based on the metal. So if your thinking along the lines of something sticky. It won't adheer (sp?) very well if at all.

 

TGC

 

Non-stick oil doesn't float my boat.

 

Oops.. I meant the product is oil based like some paints are oil based or water based.

 

It is a teflon infused oil based paint to be used in bathrooms/kitchens/garages for easy cleaning. I tried sticking a piece of chewing gum to it. It wouldn't stick. Super glue won't stick either, once it has dried it pops right off. Even gorilla glue once dried will pop right off.

 

TGC

[+texasgrillchef]

Depends. Is the 25 foot pole supplied near the cache or do you expect the finder to bring his or her own pole?

 

I would make a pole joke here, but some may take offense to pollock jokes.

 

I would make a joke about other forms of poles, but others might not find that family friendly either.

 

All I will say.... is a 25' pole sounds more like another fish story to me, but then again we are fishing with magnets with this cache. Opposites attract when it comes to those. You know.. a North pole loves a south pole type thing. Again there we go, back to poles!

 

TGC

[knowschad]

 

Oh oh... So, you mean that a cache that requires a 25-30 foot pole with a hook on the end to retrieve from flat ground maybe shouldn't be rated a terrain 5? OK... I'm in trouble now!!

 

 

Depends. Is the 25 foot pole supplied near the cache or do you expect the finder to bring his or her own pole?

 

 

"supplied near the cache"... snicker!snicker!snicker! Yeah, righhhhtt! LOL!

[+ArcherDragoon]

Ahhh. good ol' Clayjar. I haven't tried to work it out with Clayjar. I would assume that in the block that you quoted, you would have selected "5", so how does that work out? I thought a "5" in that block would be applied to terrain. Am I mistaken?

 

Difficulty ratings:
(1) 	Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.
(2)	Average. The average cache hunter would be able to find this in less than 30 minutes of hunting.
(3) 	Challenging. An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon.
(4) 	Difficult. A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.
(5) 	Extreme. A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache.

Terrain ratings:
(1) 	Handicapped accessible. (Terrain is likely to be paved, is relatively flat, and less than a 1/2 mile hike is required.)
(2) 	Suitable for small children. (Terrain is generally along marked trails, there are no steep elevation changes or heavy overgrowth. Less than a 2 mile hike required.)
(3) 	Not suitable for small children. (The average adult or older child should be OK depending on physical condition. Terrain is likely off-trail. May have one or more of the following: some overgrowth, some steep elevation changes, or more than a 2 mile hike.)
(4) 	Experienced outdoor enthusiasts only. (Terrain is probably off-trail. Will have one or more of the following: very heavy overgrowth, very steep elevation (requiring use of hands), or more than a 10 mile hike. May require an overnight stay.)
(5) 	Requires specialized equipment and knowledge or experience, (boat, 4WD, rock climbing, SCUBA, etc) or is otherwise extremely difficult.

 

Edit: Not real sure why I have two different texts for difficulty (this post and my previous post)...could have sworn when I posted them before I did the same method to get them...but these are what I found today using a rating from a cache listing...

Edited September 18, 2009 by ArcherDragoon

[+Knight2000]

The difficulty is how hard it is to complete the find (sign the logbook) without consideration to the terrain. If you only consider difficulty up to the point where you lay eyes on the cache then you'll leave part of the hunt without a rating.

I disagree with your analysis. I think there is a big difference in finding a cache and retrieving it (signing the log book). GCRS:

* Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.

A cache can be 15' up in the air in plain sight but still have a 1 star difficulty. IMHO the terrain is how physically challenging it is to get to GZ and retrieve the cache.

 

Just my two cents.

[+niraD]

* Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.

A cache can be 15' up in the air in plain sight but still have a 1 star difficulty. IMHO the terrain is how physically challenging it is to get to GZ and retrieve the cache.

Just to throw a monkey-wrench into the analysis, would it make any difference if the cache weren't the ammo can 15' up in the air in plain sight, but the Lock & Lock inside the ammo can? In that case, you can't find the cache (the Lock & Lock) until you figure out how to retrieve the ammo can.

[GOF and Bacall]

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

 

Which is? I did top put a light coating of a non stick oil based on the metal. So if your thinking along the lines of something sticky. It won't adheer (sp?) very well if at all.

 

TGC

 

Non-stick oil doesn't float my boat.

 

Oops.. I meant the product is oil based like some paints are oil based or water based.

 

It is a teflon infused oil based paint to be used in bathrooms/kitchens/garages for easy cleaning. I tried sticking a piece of chewing gum to it. It wouldn't stick. Super glue won't stick either, once it has dried it pops right off. Even gorilla glue once dried will pop right off.

 

TGC

And here I thought I was dropping a hint.

[GOF and Bacall]

 

Oh oh... So, you mean that a cache that requires a 25-30 foot pole with a hook on the end to retrieve from flat ground maybe shouldn't be rated a terrain 5? OK... I'm in trouble now!!

 

 

Depends. Is the 25 foot pole supplied near the cache or do you expect the finder to bring his or her own pole?

 

 

"supplied near the cache"... snicker!snicker!snicker! Yeah, righhhhtt! LOL!

 

I have a cache hidden that is 12 feet or so up a tree. There is, in fact, a supplied tool near by. I always get a laugh when I read the accounts of how hard it was to climb up and retrieve it.

[+ArcherDragoon]

The difficulty is how hard it is to complete the find (sign the logbook) without consideration to the terrain. If you only consider difficulty up to the point where you lay eyes on the cache then you'll leave part of the hunt without a rating.

I disagree with your analysis. I think there is a big difference in finding a cache and retrieving it (signing the log book). GCRS:

* Easy. In plain sight or can be found in a few minutes of searching.

A cache can be 15' up in the air in plain sight but still have a 1 star difficulty. IMHO the terrain is how physically challenging it is to get to GZ and retrieve the cache.

 

Just my two cents.

Just had one the other day where the cache was about 10ft (sure...I know...not 15)...but my feet never left the ground in order to retrieve it...

[+ecanderson]

And here I thought I was dropping a hint.

I thought it was a pretty good one, too. We have two caches of that specific nature out here in Colorado of which I'm aware. Fortunately, my telescoping pole and wad of temporary mounting gum got both of them instead. Saved looking for a plug and a source of the right material to do the job the way the COs intended.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Return visit with a hacksaw would make it a 3.5

[+Vater_Araignee]

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

 

Which is? I did top put a light coating of a non stick oil based on the metal. So if your thinking along the lines of something sticky. It won't adheer (sp?) very well if at all.

 

TGC

 

Non-stick oil doesn't float my boat.

I can think of a way to make this cache so alternate retrieval methods wont come bobbing up.

[+bflentje]

I wouldn't call a magnet "specialized."

Especially since you can get an OK magnet and some string to do the job at any corner big box store...

 

I would agree...terrain about 1/1.5 if you are concerned about that...but probably a 3.5/4 difficulty...

 

I'd agree on the difficulty of 3 to 4 WITHOUT the hint. Leave the hint and I'd call it 1.5 to 2.5.

[+texasgrillchef]

I can think of an alternate method of retrieval.

 

Which is? I did top put a light coating of a non stick oil based on the metal. So if your thinking along the lines of something sticky. It won't adheer (sp?) very well if at all.

 

TGC

 

Non-stick oil doesn't float my boat.

I can think of a way to make this cache so alternate retrieval methods wont come bobbing up.

 

So can I... problem with that, is when the area floods (& it does in bad rains) it would come bobbing up anyways. One of the several reasons for the 6' pipe. Never floods more than about 4'-5'. Although 4" pipe, 6' long, figure the volume on that one!

 

TGC