dig or not to dig?

[toczygroszek]

As you can see in Guidelines buried caches are not allowed but only if you have to use "shovel, trowel or other pointy object". In Poland buried caches is a problem, because this is common practice in local "opencaching" (even if it's against regulations of national forestry or city park). So people just try register buried cache on Geocaching.com and mostly they are not published (thanks to Slovak and Czech reviewers!). But sometimes people just report as their cache is covered by tiny layer of soil and you can dig it out using only hands. This is one of these caches:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...62bb2&log=y

 

And this is spoiler picture for it:

 

 

Of course, you can dig it using only hands. As one geocacher said:

"If they say that you should be able to dig the caches out with your hands, ten you cant be so careful about your hands. With bleeding fingers all caches are diggable by hand. You know, bone is hard as rock so most soil will give in when you have reached the bone"

 

And what will happen when ground will frozen - it is impossible don't use some equipment like shovel...

 

Maybe some simple change in Guidelines will help not allowed to publish these caches? Or any other suggestions?

Edited August 28, 2009 by toczygroszek

[+Knight2000]

Cachers should govern themselves but often a cacher that does can be alienated locally for speaking out.

 

These caches should just have a SBA log posted and forget it. Once it is know that it is buried it will be archived immediately. I don't think there is much more that you can do.

[+Knight2000]

Of course, you can dig it using only hands.

Fingers are "pointy objects".

[GOF and Bacall]

If you don't wish to publicly report a cache via a needs archived log you can always email the reviewer directly. Once you have reported a cache that you think violates the guidelines forget about it.

[+WRASTRO]

No change in the guidelines is need as digging is already prohibited. The cache pictured appears to violate the existing guideline.

[+Hynr]

I think that a lot of European cache owners seem to believe that they can do whatever needs to be done as long as the searcher does not need to dig. These individuals need clarification that the rule applies to hiding the cache. Some seem to think that if they get permission from the land owner, that that then sets the geocaching rule aside. While caching in Europe for 3 months (NL, DE, BE, CZ) last year I found 10 times more buried caches in my 300 finds there than in the 5000 finds in the rest of the world before that. Many of the buried caches are quite elaborate holes lined with wood to prevent caving in, with a fairly solid lid; some have drainage systems installed to deal with snowmelt and rain. I even saw one with a hidden chamber below. When new cachers come on board, they find some of these really cool caches and that sets the standard for them.

 

The rule is clear: if as part of placing the cache you had to dig with any sort of implement or your hands, then the cache violates the rules. Rearranging rocks and such is allowed; lifting soil out of the ground is not.

[+StarBrand]

That cache clearly violates the guideline and should receive a "NA" log from any cacher that cares.

[+McBack]

I've only heard about one cache that was hidden like this in Finland, it was removed after the first found. The owner was a younger boy that didn't understand the english written rules. But after a translation he changed the cache at once, and it was activated again. So the only problem here was the language.

 

But a lot of new geocachers want to hide their first cache when they have found one or two. It would be good to have a older geocacher to check and approve or a minimum found caches before they can hide their own. I have given many cachers advices both on how to start geocaching and how to hide them. And they are thankful all the time. But they have to know they can ask. I don't know if they have realiced they can ask the reviewer eather, maybe they think the reviewer also only understand english when all the rest on the page is written in english.

 

Thoughts?

[toczygroszek]

The rule is clear: if as part of placing the cache you had to dig with any sort of implement or your hands, then the cache violates the rules. Rearranging rocks and such is allowed; lifting soil out of the ground is not.

 

I'm not sure, rules mention about using tools. So please write official, detailed clarification for this rule. Owners explanation is allways "you don't have to use any tools". If fingers are "pointy object" please add it to gudelines after "shovel and trowel".

[toczygroszek]

sorry, accidentaly I posted wrong adress to cache page, changed now.

 

Ant there is owners explanatin in description:

 

-in a soft salt ground -no tools necessary

[+synthacide]

I have found two different caches where the hider first buried a piece of PVC and then slid the cache into it... the other was a fake "2in pvc drain" of whice you pulled the top up to reveal the cache that is attached to it... by the definition above about using tools to hide the cache, these are in violation... I thought the rule applied to finders, using tools to retrieve a cache... just want some clarification... on a side note I really enjoyed these buried caches!

[GOF and Bacall]

I have found two different caches where the hider first buried a piece of PVC and then slid the cache into it... the other was a fake "2in pvc drain" of whice you pulled the top up to reveal the cache that is attached to it... by the definition above about using tools to hide the cache, these are in violation... I thought the rule applied to finders, using tools to retrieve a cache... just want some clarification... on a side note I really enjoyed these buried caches!

 

From the guidelines.

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

[+Hrethgir]

Off-Limit (Physical) Caches

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived. We also assume that your cache placement complies with all applicable laws. If an obvious legal issue is present, or is brought to our attention, your listing may be immediately archived.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not exhaustive):

 

Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other "pointy" object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

 

Seems pretty straight-forward to me.

[+synthacide]

yupp pretty straight forward... its too bad those caches were inspiring...

[knowschad]

Of course, you can dig it using only hands.

Fingers are "pointy objects".

 

 

If you want to go there, I've known some people who's eyes were "pointy objects"!