FTF

[+Scubasonic]

Me thinks that "Fizzymagic" has a BIG chip on his shoulder, and has got beat out of one to many FTFs himself this is why he is so bitter.

See post #39.

 

See post #50

[davidwile]

Hey Scuba,

 

I think your comments may be helping Fizzy to make the point he seems to be trying to make. You readily claim to be a competitive FTF cacher, and you do it in a rather agressive manner. That is what Fizzy seems to be complaining about the whole FTF mentality. Hey, I don't have a problem with folks like you enjoying the hunt for the FTF. It takes all kinds of folks to make the whole GeoCache thing as well as to make up the world. In my opinion, your comments about Fizzy are not very civil. You could simply say you don't care one bit about my opinion; I concede that you have a right to do so. On the other hand, you might read over the posts in this thread again and see if you might agree that you might have made your points about the subject without making such personal remarks against another cacher.

 

Best wishes,

Dave Wile

[+Scubasonic]

Hey Scuba,

 

I think your comments may be helping Fizzy to make the point he seems to be trying to make. You readily claim to be a competitive FTF cacher, and you do it in a rather agressive manner. That is what Fizzy seems to be complaining about the whole FTF mentality. Hey, I don't have a problem with folks like you enjoying the hunt for the FTF. It takes all kinds of folks to make the whole GeoCache thing as well as to make up the world. In my opinion, your comments about Fizzy are not very civil. You could simply say you don't care one bit about my opinion; I concede that you have a right to do so. On the other hand, you might read over the posts in this thread again and see if you might agree that you might have made your points about the subject without making such personal remarks against another cacher.

 

Best wishes,

Dave Wile

 

Dave,

 

Thanks for the post I did read over all the posts, I just found it interesting that a guy that is portrayed as such a "Gracious" Geocacher would really slam folks that go after FTFs like he has in previous posts. Just because Fizzy doesn't go after FTFs, doesn't mean that he should portray all FTFers as the ones that ruin the sport of Geocaching that's all. I see nothing wrong with going for FTFs. And you mentioned that I go after FTFs in a "Rather aggressively manner" how are you coming to that conclusion and please define that for me.......... in my opinion pretty much anyone would have to if they plan on getting a FTF within reason, but let me define "aggressively" how I see it I don't break any laws, and follow all the rules I just happen to get there first, so what's the harm in that.

 

Scubasonic

[+Chrysalides]

Me thinks that "Fizzymagic" has a BIG chip on his shoulder, and has got beat out of one to many FTFs himself this is why he is so bitter.

See post #39.

 

See post #50

I did. Great way to go about convincing people towards your point of view.

 

I happen to disagree with fizzymagic's point of view but I see no need to attack him personally. And just because mrbort thinks that fizzymagic has class, you need to attack him personally as well?

 

I realize the forum guidelines is hidden in a rather obscure location, and since this is the Getting Started forum, perhaps it may be beneficial to link to it here.

[+mrbort]

I remembered fizzymagic as being the first to find on a pretty tough series of caches here that I recently did when he was visiting the area. He had to do a lot of work to figure them out and when he got here his posts were gracious and not only didn't trumpet or even make any mention of being the first to find (other than after having worked hard on it it was a treat to find it unfound on his birthday). Not only was he gracious, he left unactivated geocoins for the next person; to me that's class.

 

I mention this not to denigrate those who are excited about the FTF race but as an example of the FTF being done with class. I also think that he sums up quite nicely my feelings about my personal experience with FTFs well as it being a neat treat to see the blank logbook but the quality of the cache is more important

 

mrbort,

 

How much is fizzymagic paying you to say these kind words......... come on really from what you said he sounds like the model cacher, but based on all his posts here from the very first one he is attacking, insulting and down right rude when he talks about people that enjoy going after FTFs which I happen to be one of those people. He does not strike me as being all that gracious as you say you can feel the anger in his words as you read them.

 

Maybe you are confusing fizzymagic with someone else all together, or maybe he has had some life altering event happen in his life......... cause he flat out does not seem to be the same person that you are referring to. Sounds like a egotistical J--K

 

Scubasonic

 

uh....

 

Wow.. I didn't think I'd be called out about the secret payment plans between fizzymagic and myself.

 

Snap back to reality: I was just posting (you can read from two posts down) that I noticed the name from a few caches I had been to. You're welcome to check the logs (GCTQKD, GCTQMA, GCTQMP). I'm not even sure why I bothered to look those up for you based on your earlier behavior in the "a deleted log" fiasco of a topic. You clearly equate being numbers based (with ftfs, finds etc) with caching superiority; when someone comes and questions the fact that that attitude is damaging not only to the hobby but also to the cache locations you seemed to go immediately personal and accuse that poster of having an outside agenda and also accusing me of being in collusion with this poster for some reason. This is the getting started forum. I don't believe that any of what you posted belongs here. If you would like to bring this debate (FTFs etc) into the Geocaching Topics where it's not cluttering up and angsting up life for new cachers, please make a topic and I'd be happy to debate you there. If you want to make it personal, I see no reason to address your borderline paranoid concerns. As it stands, I made my remarks based on only the logs left by fizzymagic on those three caches. I thought they showed integrity rather than the bonkers screaming of someone who only cares about FTFs as you imply.

 

Happy caching and best of luck if you would like to discuss this further in a more appropriate setting.

 

mrbort

[+Chrysalides]

Wow.. I didn't think I'd be called out about the secret payment plans between fizzymagic and myself.

Hey, don't forget to wire me the payment for defending you! We agreed on FTFs on your next 3 hides, right?

[+mrbort]

Wow.. I didn't think I'd be called out about the secret payment plans between fizzymagic and myself.

Hey, don't forget to wire me the payment for defending you! We agreed on FTFs on your next 3 hides, right?

 

Clearly. I'll be leaving the $50s under the logbook.

[+fizzymagic]

Thanks for the post I did read over all the posts, I just found it interesting that a guy that is portrayed as such a "Gracious" Geocacher would really slam folks that go after FTFs like he has in previous posts. Just because Fizzy doesn't go after FTFs, doesn't mean that he should portray all FTFers as the ones that ruin the sport of Geocaching that's all.

I am sorry if I gave the impression that all FTF hounds are obnoxious. I don't believe I ever said that. I do believe that a substantial minority of FTF hounds write obnoxious posts, and that another minority engage in other behaviors that damage geocaching as a whole, such as entering parks during hours that they are closed and tearing up the landscape looking for caches.

 

It is because of the actions of these minorities that I have concluded that the whole competitive FTF thing is detrimental to geocaching. As a result of that conclusion, I recommend that the FTF competition not be encouraged by the leaving of FTF prizes.

 

I've never bothered to go look at any of your FTF logs, but given your behavior in the forums I would not be too surprised to find some "in your face" FTF logs from you. In my opinion, that kind of log is rude and unacceptable. Taunting and one-upmanship are fine if you do them somewhere that the rest of us don't have to look, but when one puts those things into the general geocaching space I find it offensive.

 

Of course, I also consider cut-and-paste logs rude, as well, so take my opinion with whatever grain of salt you wish.

 

As for my being "bitter," nothing could be farther from the truth. I readily admit be being quite sarcastic and extremely forthcoming with my opinions, though. Perhaps you misread my tone; I am annoyed with rudeness, not jealous of those who are rude.

 

ETA: Since you so graciously have posted links to come of your FTF logs in your profile, I went and looked. Seems I was correct:

 

Your post from GC1KE11:

WHOOO HOOO FTF !! FTF!! TFTH at 6'4" it was no problem

 

HA HA !!! Beat Lady Orca and Charlie and it was in their back yard.

 

'nuff said.

Edited June 7, 2009 by fizzymagic

[+Chrysalides]

It is because of the actions of these minorities that I have concluded that the whole competitive FTF thing is detrimental to geocaching. As a result of that conclusion, I recommend that the FTF competition not be encouraged by the leaving of FTF prizes.

 

Thing is, it is the FTF, rather than any physical prize or cache page recognition that encourages the FTF hounds. In other words, the prize doesn't encourage them. I'm sure you think there's no need to reward them either, but there's a difference between encouraging and rewarding.

 

My recommendation regarding FTF prizes? Do as you see fit. Don't feel pressurized one way or another.

 

Your post from GC1KE11

 

At least it is not a cut and paste log...

 

Obnoxious? Maybe. Rude? Hard to tell. Not my cache, not directed at me, I can easily ignore it and not let it bother me. Destructive cachers - those I despise, but there's no indication ScubaSonic is such a cacher. I guess your earlier post, while not intentional, hit a nerve there.

Edited June 7, 2009 by Chrysalides

[+briansnat]

I remembered fizzymagic as being the first to find on a pretty tough series of caches here that I recently did when he was visiting the area. He had to do a lot of work to figure them out and when he got here his posts were gracious and not only didn't trumpet or even make any mention of being the first to find (other than after having worked hard on it it was a treat to find it unfound on his birthday). Not only was he gracious, he left unactivated geocoins for the next person; to me that's class.

 

I mention this not to denigrate those who are excited about the FTF race but as an example of the FTF being done with class. I also think that he sums up quite nicely my feelings about my personal experience with FTFs well as it being a neat treat to see the blank logbook but the quality of the cache is more important

 

mrbort,

 

How much is fizzymagic paying you to say these kind words......... come on really from what you said he sounds like the model cacher, but based on all his posts here from the very first one he is attacking, insulting and down right rude when he talks about people that enjoy going after FTFs which I happen to be one of those people. He does not strike me as being all that gracious as you say you can feel the anger in his words as you read them.

 

Maybe you are confusing fizzymagic with someone else all together, or maybe he has had some life altering event happen in his life......... cause he flat out does not seem to be the same person that you are referring to. Sounds like a egotistical J--K

 

Scubasonic

 

I've been through his posts here and see no attacks or rudeness or anything insulting. He's simply offering his well reasoned opinion about the practice. If you find his comments to be insulting then perhaps there are aspects of your behavior regarding the subject that you are not completely comfortable with.

 

 

I've seen more bruised feelings over it than just about any other aspect of caching

 

Can you elaborate a little please? I can understand the opinion that the FTF fuss might be overdone, but why would it hurt someones feelings?

 

Not trying to disagree, just want to understand.

 

I recall an incident where the FTF prize was a $20 bill. The FTF somehow missed it, so the 2TF mentioned that he found it and sort of gloated over the fact that the FTF missed it. The FTF took exception, committed geocide, then suddenly the caches of the 2TF started disappearing.

 

The FTF race can be a fun, good-natured competition, but it can get out of hand. How many posts have we seen in these forums from people complaining about certain people getting all the FTFs, or this guy logging online before that guy got to log his FTF, or that FTF using supposedly unfair tactics. The potential is just too great for bad blood to arise from what started out as innocuous fun.

 

It's kind of like when my cats start playfully wrestling on the floor. They're having fun playing with each other, but eventually one hits the other the wrong way and soon there is a full blown cat find with

clawing and screeching.

[+PorscheSpyder]

A nice, blank logbook is a prize enough for me.

[+todd300]

Even a log book that is still fresh with only a few sigs on it is prize enough for me. I'm just as happy getting STF and TTF as I am getting a FTF.

[+Ockette]

Even when those who participate in the FTF race enter parks illegally during hours they are closed, and when those who participate write obnoxious logs, and when those who participate tear up the cache's surroundings in their fervor to be FTF!!!!! ?

 

About this, though: A FTFer can only do this once per cache. Other cachers do it again and again and again with far less motivation. I've seen a favorite local cache retired because cachers, none of them the FTF, had destroyed the terrain to the extent that a small tree fell down.