What I learn in the National Forest

[messemore]

While out on my second day of Geocaching, I learned a couple of things in the National Forest.

 

I met a real nice Officer. His name was Officer Smith. Or you can use the name I gave him, "Sir". As in "Yes sir" and "No Sir".

 

First while in the National Forest you should NEVER block a gate. As this could block emergence vehicle from accessing the area behind the gate. If this happens they will use a large tractor and just push your car out of the way. You don't want that to happen.

 

Second is the that "Geo-cahing is unauthorized use of the National Forest." That is the way it was written on the warning I received. As explain by the Officer, the storage of anything is prohibited in the National Forest without a permit. I didn't ask but I bet it would be almost impossible to get a permit.

 

From their point of view I understand. If they allowed everyone to store stuff, then some drunk would put a bunch of beer battles under a log and call it a Geocache.

 

On the other hand we had kids with us and I thought it would be a safe place to carry them and teach them to use a GPS and to get out and enjoy the outdoors. He didn't seem to mind the dirt bikes or the 4-wheel drive vehicles that were running up and down the roads. I am sure we did a lot less damage than the dirt bikes.

 

Is it really that bad to use the National Forest for Geocaching?

 

Has this happened to anyone else?

 

Should we put this information on any Caches that are located in the National Forest?

[+Happy Bubbles]

Not all National Forests are the same. There's a lot of autonomy at the state level, and individual rangers and wardens have their own rules and policies. Some do grant permission for caches.

[+wkmccall]

While out on my second day of Geocaching, I learned a couple of things in the National Forest.

 

I met a real nice Officer. His name was Officer Smith. Or you can use the name I gave him, "Sir". As in "Yes sir" and "No Sir".

 

First while in the National Forest you should NEVER block a gate. As this could block emergence vehicle from accessing the area behind the gate. If this happens they will use a large tractor and just push your car out of the way. You don't want that to happen.

 

Second is the that "Geo-cahing is unauthorized use of the National Forest." That is the way it was written on the warning I received. As explain by the Officer, the storage of anything is prohibited in the National Forest without a permit. I didn't ask but I bet it would be almost impossible to get a permit.

 

From their point of view I understand. If they allowed everyone to store stuff, then some drunk would put a bunch of beer battles under a log and call it a Geocache.

 

On the other hand we had kids with us and I thought it would be a safe place to carry them and teach them to use a GPS and to get out and enjoy the outdoors. He didn't seem to mind the dirt bikes or the 4-wheel drive vehicles that were running up and down the roads. I am sure we did a lot less damage than the dirt bikes.

 

Is it really that bad to use the National Forest for Geocaching?

 

Has this happened to anyone else?

 

Should we put this information on any Caches that are located in the National Forest?

 

Permits aren't that hard to get, it just depends on the NF you are looking into and it also helps if the employees are cachers also..

[+Sparticus06]

I do believe that the Allegheny National Forest in PA, you need a permit to hide a cache. There are pros and cons to it all.

[+slackpacker]

I have found dozens, if not more than a hundred, caches on National Forest land, and never had an experience like that. I'm sorry you had that experience, especially with the kids in tow. I hope you'll shake it off and not get discouraged.

 

Maybe the gate blocking bit impacted their response, I don't know. Certainly not typical.

[+Star*Hopper]

... Maybe the gate blocking bit impacted their response, I don't know. Certainly not typical.

I'd have to go along with that. I've never been able to figure why people will block any kind of passageway when they park, (or just stop e.g. in & blocking an aisle, for that matter). Same goes for parking a vehicle anywhere and then leaving the vehicle, in a manner that blocks in other parked vehicles, and I see that quite a bit. It screams of selfishness & disregard for others, something I detest in peoples' behaviour.

 

Likewise, hope you don't get discouraged about caching - it's a learning process - but those issues don't pertain to just caching.

~*

[+Ed56]

Granted that the ranger is just doing his/her relatively thankless job and they don't make the rules about storing things in the forest. On the other hand.... sometimes overly broad or poorly thought out rules remain in effect just because no one bothers to question whether they make sense or not or if they apply to a given situation. An example: California used to have a rule that you can't drive a car with just the parking lights turned on. That seems to make sense if you assume that it's nighttime. But what if it's daytime and you're just trying to make yourself more visible to other motorists for safety sake.... does the rule still make sense in that situation?

[+StarBrand]

Many national forests are quite friendly to geocaching. I know they are in Nebraska and parts of Wyoming. Sure they may have a few rules but they are easy to follow and no trouble.

 

I think the road blocking thing just really set them off.

[+MTGeoPirates]

I'd be interested to know what National Forest it was. I've never heard of any NF banning caching, and know of at least one (the Boise NF) that has placed their own caches. Caches are banned in wilderness areas, but since you'd parked at a gate that doesn't sound like an issue. Looking at your finds, I'd guess it might have been the George Washington and Jefferson NF. Wonder if their website might have info?

Edited March 11, 2009 by MTGeoPirates

[+Vater_Araignee]

Not all National Forests are the same. There's a lot of autonomy at the state level, and individual rangers and wardens have their own rules and policies. Some do grant permission for caches.

The same hold true for state forest and rec areas, at least in Michigan.

I'm waiting to find out about a State or National forest that only one person is capable of getting permits for cache placement. Wanna bet we could quickly find the RL name?

[+3doxies]

Recently ran into a couple of NFS employees in a section Cherokee NF who exhibited a similar attitude. While they did not go to the extreme of saying it was not allowed (they were "aware" and "tolerated" it), their disdain for the hobby was most apparent...and subsequent conversation revealed that their understanding of it was quite mistaken. The most bothersome thing was that they were clearly disinterested in gaining any more accurate understanding or additional information.

[+rlridgeway]

I wonder what the violation was? I doubt very seriously that "looking" for a geocache is any kind of violation. Placing a geocache, perhaps.

But looking for one? hum...

[+dacjohns]

 

First while in the National Forest you should NEVER block a gate. As this could block emergence vehicle from accessing the area behind the gate. If this happens they will use a large tractor and just push your car out of the way. You don't want that to happen.

 

Second is the that "Geo-cahing is unauthorized use of the National Forest." That is the way it was written on the warning I received. As explain by the Officer, the storage of anything is prohibited in the National Forest without a permit. I didn't ask but I bet it would be almost impossible to get a permit.

 

From their point of view I understand. If they allowed everyone to store stuff, then some drunk would put a bunch of beer battles under a log and call it a Geocache.

 

On the other hand we had kids with us and I thought it would be a safe place to carry them and teach them to use a GPS and to get out and enjoy the outdoors. He didn't seem to mind the dirt bikes or the 4-wheel drive vehicles that were running up and down the roads. I am sure we did a lot less damage than the dirt bikes.

 

 

Were you hiding a cache or looking for a cache? If you were looking for a cache I don't see how you were violating anything except for blocking a gate. Maybe he didn't understand what you were doing, just going for a hike.

 

Regions, National Forest, and Ranger Districts can all have their own policies. It depends on where you are. Sometimes the information will be available on the website for the Region, National Forest, or Ranger District. Some will allow geocaching without a permit, some will allow it with a permit, and some will not allow it. That's just the way it is.

 

You really shouldn't block a gate.

 

Off road vehicle use also depends. It not only depends on Forest Service policies but now the state is involved. Also, it isn't always about resource damage.

 

Law Enforcement Officers (LEOs) and Forest Protection Officer (FPOs) can't be everywhere at once. There are not a lot of them and they have a lot of territory to cover.

 

The George Washington NF is in the Southern Region. Here is a link to the Southern Region policy on geocaching.

 

http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/texas/recreation/p...y_fs_manual.pdf

[+WRASTRO]

I simply try to play by the local rules as I see them posted. If I don't see them posted at a trailhead or something similar then I presume I am ok to hunt without the need to worry about some overbearing ranger spending a bunch of time chatting me up and threatening me. This strategy has worked for a bit over 5 years so far.