Delorme PN40 - WAAS NO GO!

[DJMOLL]

Unfortunately I'm joining the others who have reported that their new PN-40 won't received WAAS satellite info. I've been using the unit for about one week.

 

Tried resetting NVM, loading new 2.3 firmware, leaving unit on in clear view of southern sky for several hours -- all multiple times. No success.

 

I have seen satellite 120 or 138 on the satellite graphic, in blue. I have 11, sometimes 12 green bars with >75% signal strength. Sometimes 120 or 138 are replaced with a "W". I have never seen any signal strength bar on 120, 138, or W. My green signal strength bars have never changed to blue. The 120 or 138 satellites are near the horizon, but I'm receiving strong signals from regular satellites even closer to the horizon.

 

I have a Magellan Meridian Platinum that gets WAAS here with no problem. I'm replacing the Meridian because Magellan isn't supporting firmware updates for WAAS, and for the good Delorme images/maps. Unfortunately, if WAAS doesn't work, the basic accuracy of this unit is inferior. It will have to go back for a refund if there are no fixes.

 

Perhaps the new "high sensitivity" chip set is not so good, or Delorme implementation of it is not so good.

 

I truly want to keep this unit, but can't accept it without WAAS capability. Please, anyone have any solutions beyond what is already posted on Delorme technical support board or this board?

 

djmoll (Sad Delorme customer)

[+TotemLake]

Unfortunately I'm joining the others who have reported that their new PN-40 won't received WAAS satellite info. I've been using the unit for about one week.

 

Tried resetting NVM, loading new 2.3 firmware, leaving unit on in clear view of southern sky for several hours -- all multiple times. No success.

 

I have seen satellite 120 or 138 on the satellite graphic, in blue. I have 11, sometimes 12 green bars with >75% signal strength. Sometimes 120 or 138 are replaced with a "W". I have never seen any signal strength bar on 120, 138, or W. My green signal strength bars have never changed to blue. The 120 or 138 satellites are near the horizon, but I'm receiving strong signals from regular satellites even closer to the horizon.

 

I have a Magellan Meridian Platinum that gets WAAS here with no problem. I'm replacing the Meridian because Magellan isn't supporting firmware updates for WAAS, and for the good Delorme images/maps. Unfortunately, if WAAS doesn't work, the basic accuracy of this unit is inferior. It will have to go back for a refund if there are no fixes.

 

Perhaps the new "high sensitivity" chip set is not so good, or Delorme implementation of it is not so good.

 

I truly want to keep this unit, but can't accept it without WAAS capability. Please, anyone have any solutions beyond what is already posted on Delorme technical support board or this board?

 

djmoll (Sad Delorme customer)

Call Delorme support. Mine picks up WAAS with no problems.

[+GerIRL]

I've had a PN-40 for a week, and have never gotten a blue bar to indicate a WAAS signal. I think the 60CSx is a much more sensitive receiver. I can place both on my couch on our 1st floor, and the 60 will grab 5 satellites instantly, and give the appropriate coordinates with 20ft accuracy within 2 minutes, while the 40 never finds a single bird and gives up. I think the 60's SIRF chip coupled w/ the helicoil antenna is an unbeatable combo.

 

I do like the 40, and love DeLorme software. But this week has basically reaffirmed for me how strong and solid a GPSr the 60CSx is.

[+Frodo_Underhill]

GerIRL - I've had a PN-20 for a year now and it gets WAAS all the time as opposed to a Maggie I have that is no longer WAAS capable. If you are having trouble with WAAS check with DeLorme. Or check their forum - better info over there as the DeLorme engineers check it and interact with their customers. Good luck!

 

And if you would like to trade your PN-40 for a PN-20 - just get in touch!

[DJMOLL]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies.

 

There are several threads on this WAAS problem over at the Delorme forums. Delorme says they are looking at firmware issues related to WAAS.

 

I hope this is a unique problem to my unit, a problem that could be fixed by replacing it. Based on the discussion on the Delorme forums, however, this problem looks like it is not an isolated issue.

 

I'll call Delorme tech support on Monday to see what they say. Will post their response here.

 

djmoll

[+Team CowboyPapa]

As I wanted to add a graphic, I my main response to the issue is over here.

 

On the way, I noted that my couch hadn't moved in several years, so I didn't bother on getting its position read and went outside for the screenshots on the linked post.

 

If anybody can demonstrate the capability of their 60CSx with their position superimposed over Aerial Imagery (as opposed to maps of unverified accuracy), I'd be pleased to acknowledge such.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Team CowboyPapa

[+g-o-cashers]

Interesting that the Oregon and PN-40 are both having WAAS lock issues and are based on the same chipset.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I'd like to make another post with a goal of making DJMOLL comfortable until she can talk to DeLorme Tech Support.

 

Here is a Color Aerial Image for reference for a track that I recorded several weeks ago with my PN-40:

http://mapshare.delorme.com/Consumer/V.aspx?p=b7fldps4

 

Here is the recorded track superimposed on that reference image:

http://mapshare.delorme.com/Consumer/V.aspx?p=nb8hjjyr

 

Now, if you view those side-by-side and very carefully, you will note that the red track overlays a very faint 4WD track up the canyon. Note that the overlay is extemely close as it covers without straying or spillover. The track is one truck with in width and when you see a Jeep coming towards you, both continue 'til one gets to a wide spot and pulls up for the other to pass.

 

This is an example of 7 miles of ±5 ft accuracy and I have no idea of the WAAS environment at the time.

 

Note: The "ueey" at the bottom is real, it is from first checking my geocache:

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...ad-a6c64a9692c1

[+embra]

Interesting that the Oregon and PN-40 are both having WAAS lock issues and are based on the same chipset.

Interesting it is. I haven't followed the Oregon discussions closely...are the WAAS issues there across the board or spotty? It's hard to get a handle on the scope of the problem from forum discussions, but some PN-40 units seem to be getting WAAS fine, others had problems but found remedy with a wipe and reload of a fresh almanc, and some, like djmoll, have done about all I think they can do and haven't seen improvement. So it's been uneven among the PN-40 users.

 

Djmoll--I think we'll have to wait and see what the Delorme people will have to say about the matter. They had an ice storm with power loss in the area, so it may be Monday before they're back at work.

[yogazoo]

It's funny, Bushnell has Sirf-Star III chips in their units and they get WASS just fine and are fairly accurate and stable. My buddy has one and it's an ok unit. Why not stick with something tried and true instead of diverging off into new, unstable, territory (cartesio)?

 

My Oregon has WASS issues too.

Edited December 14, 2008 by yogazoo

[DJMOLL]

I appreciate everyone's continuing replies. It is obvious several of you are very happy with your Delorme PN40 units.

 

I also like many of its features. This WAAS issue, however, really bothers me. I ran my PN40 overnight from a south-facing second floor window with no success. It was showing satellite 138 this time, but no signal strength on the bar display. Before running for the night, I rebooted and the 120 satellite went away and 138 appeared. So it apparently was looking for 138 overnight. I'm curious how the PN40 decides which WAAS satellite to display (look for?).

 

I'm still concerned about the performance of my PN40. I can't accept that it is a "serious" tool if it can't access WAAS information. That seems fundamental to modern GPS performance. I sincerely hope Delorme can suggest a fix or replace the unit to remedy the problem.

 

djmoll

[+Team DeLorme]

I appreciate everyone's continuing replies. It is obvious several of you are very happy with your Delorme PN40 units.

 

I also like many of its features. This WAAS issue, however, really bothers me. I ran my PN40 overnight from a south-facing second floor window with no success. It was showing satellite 138 this time, but no signal strength on the bar display. Before running for the night, I rebooted and the 120 satellite went away and 138 appeared. So it apparently was looking for 138 overnight. I'm curious how the PN40 decides which WAAS satellite to display (look for?).

 

I'm still concerned about the performance of my PN40. I can't accept that it is a "serious" tool if it can't access WAAS information. That seems fundamental to modern GPS performance. I sincerely hope Delorme can suggest a fix or replace the unit to remedy the problem.

 

djmoll

 

We've had a severe ice storm in Maine and many people are still without power but those of us who can get into work tomorrow will address this first thing. There are many, many variables involved with WAAS so please hang in there while we do our quick testing. There are many advantages to the Cartesio chipset over the SiRF Star 3, especially concerning how bogus bounced signals are discarded for positional calculations. Garmin has moved to this new chipset for many of their Nuvi and other models for good reasons. So please hang in there and we'll have a fix out soon (as we've shown with other issues as they arise).

 

Caleb -- Team DeLorme

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Gotta love that about DeLorme. They'll actually tell us why they went with one chipset over another. This is like night and day compared to Garmin.

[DJMOLL]

Caleb,

Thanks so much for your reply. For everyone's information, here are some additional results that I posted on the Delorme forums.

 

Some progress . . .

I was outside with my PN-40 this morning, and suddenly noticed it had a near-full-strength blue bar on satellite 138. Good news--at least I can get a WAAS signal!

 

Coincidentally, satellites 2 and 4 were slightly above and below 138 on the satellite map when I first noted this (about 11:50 AM EST today 12/14). The blue bar for 138 was somewhat stronger than 2 or 4, and very steady at about 90%. Looks like signal strength, at least as shown by the bar heights, may not be an issue for WAAS reception at my location (Michigan).

 

The bad news is that I let the unit sit for one hour with a steady blue bar at about 90% for 138, and did not get any other bars to turn blue. I did not get a WAAS lock. I had strong signal on 8-9 satellites with position accuracy of +/- 14-17 ft.

 

It also looks like the WAAS satellite bar is near full strength or zero, no intermediate signal strengths.

 

So . . . I'm at least getting a strong WAAS signal, but still no usable WAAS capability.

 

I noted the post from Delorme on my thread at forums.Groundspeak.com. It is reassuring to see that you (Delorme) are going to rapidly look into this WAAS poor performance issue on Monday. Thanks!

 

Looking forward to more info from Delorme on this. Hopefully it results from Delorme's implementation of WAAS, not a fundamental problem with the chip set used in the PN40.

 

djmoll

 

-----------------

 

I appreciate everyone's continuing replies. It is obvious several of you are very happy with your Delorme PN40 units.

 

I also like many of its features. This WAAS issue, however, really bothers me. I ran my PN40 overnight from a south-facing second floor window with no success. It was showing satellite 138 this time, but no signal strength on the bar display. Before running for the night, I rebooted and the 120 satellite went away and 138 appeared. So it apparently was looking for 138 overnight. I'm curious how the PN40 decides which WAAS satellite to display (look for?).

 

I'm still concerned about the performance of my PN40. I can't accept that it is a "serious" tool if it can't access WAAS information. That seems fundamental to modern GPS performance. I sincerely hope Delorme can suggest a fix or replace the unit to remedy the problem.

 

djmoll

 

We've had a severe ice storm in Maine and many people are still without power but those of us who can get into work tomorrow will address this first thing. There are many, many variables involved with WAAS so please hang in there while we do our quick testing. There are many advantages to the Cartesio chipset over the SiRF Star 3, especially concerning how bogus bounced signals are discarded for positional calculations. Garmin has moved to this new chipset for many of their Nuvi and other models for good reasons. So please hang in there and we'll have a fix out soon (as we've shown with other issues as they arise).

 

Caleb -- Team DeLorme

[+Indotguy]

I must confess, I have never taken the time to notice whether my Lowrance H20C is pulling in WAAS birds or not and in all seriousness could care less. My device tracks the roads I'm traveling in most cases and leads me to the cache ever time (at least to the ones which have decent coordinates). I seriously wonder whether most folks would even realize WAAS accuracy without observing a graphic representation of it on their device. Let's keep this in perspective people. These are consumer grade hand held devices and not one of them, even with every WAAS bird in the sky, could come anywhere near the consistent submeter accuracy of commercial GPS devices.

[+g-o-cashers]

Gotta love that about DeLorme. They'll actually tell us why they went with one chipset over another. This is like night and day compared to Garmin.

 

Agreed and kudos to DeLorme for monitoring these forums. I've lived through the same storm and it's amazing you guys are still here helping folks out.

 

I'll have to admit though I still haven't seen any handheld device consistently outperform my Sirf based 60csx, and that includes WAAS. The 60CSx locks faster and holds signal much better than either the Oregon or Colorado. Hopefully it is a question of firmware tuning and maturity and both the PN-40 and Oregon will see some improvements.

[+TotemLake]

Gotta love that about DeLorme. They'll actually tell us why they went with one chipset over another. This is like night and day compared to Garmin.

 

Agreed and kudos to DeLorme for monitoring these forums. I've lived through the same storm and it's amazing you guys are still here helping folks out.

 

I'll have to admit though I still haven't seen any handheld device consistently outperform my Sirf based 60csx, and that includes WAAS. The 60CSx locks faster and holds signal much better than either the Oregon or Colorado. Hopefully it is a question of firmware tuning and maturity and both the PN-40 and Oregon will see some improvements.

I don't know how fast your 60 is, but I clock my PN40 at having acquired 3D fix consistently in 30 seconds. That's quick enough for me when having had to wait out 2 or 3 and sometimes 20 minutes on the MeriPlat.

[+g-o-cashers]

That's about how fast my 60csx locks.

[+tandemstoker]

Joining those who haven't been able to access the WAAS even after firmware update, NVM reset, and an overnight in a south facing window. Immediately after the firmware update and NVM reset there was a space for one of the WAAS birds on the display but no signal strength. This morning before replacing the batteries I might have seen some weak blue signal bars but since then there hasn't been any WAAS activity and the satellite is missing from the display.

[+Team DeLorme]

The project team met this evening to discuss the WAAS problem some have been experiencing. Our GPS engineer clarified that powering off and back on has been fixing the problem for some and the NVM reset is not necessary. We are going to release an updated firmware to address this shortly, anyone experiencing this problem should check with our forum site for the latest information.

 

Our tech support department added the following post to our forum and others have added comments...

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16615

 

Thank you for your patience,

 

Chip Noble

DeLorme

[DJMOLL]

Thanks, Chip, for responding on this forum.

 

I did finally receive a full WAAS lock several days ago after leaving my PN40 outside stationary for about 2 hours with a full view of the sky. I received this WAAS lock on 11 satellites after what I characterize as pretty heroic time waiting for a lock. (I had 11 steady blue bars plus one "W" blue bar, and a "W" was displayed under the 3D on the satellite page. I had a 138 satellite showing on the satellite position map.)

 

When I did receive a lock, my estimated positional error rapidly went from 15-17 down to 5-7 feet. I realize these are calculated numbers based on some model, but I expect them to represent relative accuracy. Now, getting a 3X improvement in accuracy is certainly useful to me, especially for geocaching. I expect it is a rare event to see 5-7 feet on any GPS without having a WAAS lock.

 

It looks like the PN40 chipset offers very good performance without WAAS. But, it appears to offer significantly better performance when WAAS locks. The non-lock accuracy can certainly vary, depending on satellite configuration, cover, etc. But a WAAS lock appears to take whatever accuracy is being achieved, and make it significantly better.

 

The bottom line for me is that WAAS offers a significant improvement in accuracy, but I have "never" seen a lock in normal use. Furthermore, I hoped that I would have frequent WAAS locks after my initial heroic successful effort to achieve a full lock. I hoped that the downloaded info from the WAAS satellite would speed up the lock process for subsequent GPS usage. This has NOT been true. I have never had a subsequent WAAS lock after I powered down from that first lock.

 

I sincerely hope that the WAAS firmware enhancements promised by Chip are significant. By significant, I mean that WAAS locks on quickly and is the norm rather than the exception when a reasonable view of the SW sky is available from my Michigan location. I believe the PN20 and the Garmin 60csx already have this so it is a reasonable expectation.

 

I'm a little fearful after others have posted about the Garmin Oregon's problems with slow WAAS lock and noted that the PN40 uses the same chipset.

 

To me, WAAS is an important capability for a "serious tool." Plus WAAS has certainly has been advertised as a feature of the PN40.

 

Waiting with hopeful anticipation . . . !

 

djmoll

[+Team DeLorme]

DJMoll

 

Caleb this time from DeLorme. It appears the WAAS issue some people are seeing is with the chipset and we have been working with ST on a fix this week. It is an odd situation in that the behavior is intermittent and not consistent across all devices. For now, I just want to let you know we have our best minds and ST's as well working on it and as many here know, we move quickly in providing fixes.

 

We very much appreciate your patience. These little GPS computers are extremely complex and sensitive instruments and they do benefit from finetuning over time. We also have been investigating some of the Parallels issues that have arisen and are looking at version 4.0 versus earlier versions in search of new clues. We do not claim in our specs that Parallels will work at all but we do know earlier versions did so are trying to figure out what has changed. Lots of moving pieces all the time! Ah...technology. Now if I could just get my check engine light to turn off when nothing is wrong.

 

Caleb -- Team DeLorme

 

Thanks, Chip, for responding on this forum.

 

I did finally receive a full WAAS lock several days ago after leaving my PN40 outside stationary for about 2 hours with a full view of the sky. I received this WAAS lock on 11 satellites after what I characterize as pretty heroic time waiting for a lock. (I had 11 steady blue bars plus one "W" blue bar, and a "W" was displayed under the 3D on the satellite page. I had a 138 satellite showing on the satellite position map.)

 

When I did receive a lock, my estimated positional error rapidly went from 15-17 down to 5-7 feet. I realize these are calculated numbers based on some model, but I expect them to represent relative accuracy. Now, getting a 3X improvement in accuracy is certainly useful to me, especially for geocaching. I expect it is a rare event to see 5-7 feet on any GPS without having a WAAS lock.

 

It looks like the PN40 chipset offers very good performance without WAAS. But, it appears to offer significantly better performance when WAAS locks. The non-lock accuracy can certainly vary, depending on satellite configuration, cover, etc. But a WAAS lock appears to take whatever accuracy is being achieved, and make it significantly better.

 

The bottom line for me is that WAAS offers a significant improvement in accuracy, but I have "never" seen a lock in normal use. Furthermore, I hoped that I would have frequent WAAS locks after my initial heroic successful effort to achieve a full lock. I hoped that the downloaded info from the WAAS satellite would speed up the lock process for subsequent GPS usage. This has NOT been true. I have never had a subsequent WAAS lock after I powered down from that first lock.

 

I sincerely hope that the WAAS firmware enhancements promised by Chip are significant. By significant, I mean that WAAS locks on quickly and is the norm rather than the exception when a reasonable view of the SW sky is available from my Michigan location. I believe the PN20 and the Garmin 60csx already have this so it is a reasonable expectation.

 

I'm a little fearful after others have posted about the Garmin Oregon's problems with slow WAAS lock and noted that the PN40 uses the same chipset.

 

To me, WAAS is an important capability for a "serious tool." Plus WAAS has certainly has been advertised as a feature of the PN40.

 

Waiting with hopeful anticipation . . . !

 

djmoll

[DJMOLL]

Caleb and Chip,

Thanks for your continuing answers and updates on WAAS. It sounds like you and the chip supplier are both putting some serious effort against this.

 

My previous post in this thread may have been a little strong. I apologize for that.

 

In all honesty, I love the PN40 very much. The downloadable imagery and maps are fantastic. The computing power of the PN40 makes it fully capable of using those large data-intensive files. I like the menu layout--it is logical and easy to use. I also like the smaller form factor. It is great for hiking and outdoor use. The screen is fairly small, but the visibility is fantastic in all conditions. I think you made some good design choices between size, image quality, and battery usage. Looks like you optimized well for outdoor backcountry use. The accuracy of the unit is great, even without WAAS, and the startup time is very good. Your geocaching firmware update that you have mentioned also sounds terrific. I'm even intrigued with your XMAP capability to import maps from scanned images or other standard file formats. Pretty impressive technology package overall!!!

 

My desire for good WAAS performance is simply to put some frosting on top of an already delicious cake. If my PN40 comes from a misbehaving subset, I would be happy to send it to you for diagnosis. I would also be happy to make some controlled tests. Leave a response here and I will email you privately if there is something I can do to help.

 

Again, you've got a happy customer here who selfishly wants to be even a little happier. I'm willing to help if needed.

 

Best regards,

djmoll

[+GPS777]

I have yet to see WAAS on my PN-40 in Virginia. I just started to read the forums on the problems and solutions, so still have hope of an improvement.

[+slabslr]

edit

Edited December 19, 2008 by slabslr

[+slabslr]

Well I recently upgraded to 2.4 firmware and at first I could not even get a fix so I tried re-booting and in a half hour or so I saw my first blue bar and after an hour all went blue including 138. This was the first time and I was able to do this under a cloudy sky.

[yogazoo]

It's funny to see both Garmin users and Delorme users coming together, awaiting the same chipset fix to correct the WASS sluggishness.

 

I wonder which company will provide corrected chipset firmware to it's customers first? Even though I'm a Garmin user my money's on Delorme!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

It's funny to see both Garmin users and Delorme users coming together, awaiting the same chipset fix to correct the WASS sluggishness.

 

I wonder which company will provide corrected chipset firmware to it's customers first? Even though I'm a Garmin user my money's on Delorme!

Well, we know that DeLorme is working on it as they have said as much. Garmin?

[+pammieellen]

It's funny to see both Garmin users and Delorme users coming together, awaiting the same chipset fix to correct the WASS sluggishness.

 

I wonder which company will provide corrected chipset firmware to it's customers first? Even though I'm a Garmin user my money's on Delorme!

Well, we know that DeLorme is working on it as they have said as much. Garmin?

 

I reset my PN40 using the reset procedures - still have the firmware 2.3 and all blue! I do live in SOCAL though and my thoughts are the satellites are good here due to national security reasons. Good luck with your fix. However, it did take about 15-20 minutes for all bars to go blue (and even to lock back on).

[DJMOLL]

Well, it has been over two weeks since Delorme acknowledged the WAAS problem with the PN-40. The good news is that they are working on it. The bad news is that after two weeks we have not heard any positive update on their progress. Here are two links to threads on the Delorme PN-40 support forum that are related to this issue.

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16615

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16738

 

I certainly hope this is a fixable problem, and not something inherent in the ST chipset hardware.

 

Any update from the good Delorme folks? Are you going to be able to fix this issue? I appreciate your hard work on the forthcoming geocaching firmware update, but I'm still hoping the basic PN-40 hardware will work correctly.

 

Thanks,

 

djmoll

[+TotemLake]

Well, it has been over two weeks since Delorme acknowledged the WAAS problem with the PN-40. The good news is that they are working on it. The bad news is that after two weeks we have not heard any positive update on their progress. Here are two links to threads on the Delorme PN-40 support forum that are related to this issue.

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16615

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16738

 

I certainly hope this is a fixable problem, and not something inherent in the ST chipset hardware.

 

Any update from the good Delorme folks? Are you going to be able to fix this issue? I appreciate your hard work on the forthcoming geocaching firmware update, but I'm still hoping the basic PN-40 hardware will work correctly.

 

Thanks,

 

djmoll

I read the FW 2.4 is solving some. I don't know if you tried it yet, but it is worth a shot if you haven't.

[DJMOLL]

Well, it has been over two weeks since Delorme acknowledged the WAAS problem with the PN-40. The good news is that they are working on it. The bad news is that after two weeks we have not heard any positive update on their progress. Here are two links to threads on the Delorme PN-40 support forum that are related to this issue.

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16615

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16738

 

I certainly hope this is a fixable problem, and not something inherent in the ST chipset hardware.

 

Any update from the good Delorme folks? Are you going to be able to fix this issue? I appreciate your hard work on the forthcoming geocaching firmware update, but I'm still hoping the basic PN-40 hardware will work correctly.

 

Thanks,

 

djmoll

I read the FW 2.4 is solving some. I don't know if you tried it yet, but it is worth a shot if you haven't.

 

I've been using 2.4 since it was released. No improvement in WAAS for me. As I have noted earlier, I do get a WAAS lock after heroic efforts (>1 hour, stationary, clear view of horizon), but it is certainly not useful in a practical way.

 

With Delorme's two-week silence on this, and reports of similar problems with units from other manufacturers that use the same chipset, I'm fearful there is no quick fix. (It may be out of Delorme's direct control.)

 

djmoll

[+twolpert]

With Delorme's two-week silence on this, and reports of similar problems with units from other manufacturers that use the same chipset, I'm fearful there is no quick fix. (It may be out of Delorme's direct control.)

 

djmoll

Pretty sure I have seen a post somewhere that indicates that this is a problem with the chipset firmware (not hardware). And that Delorme is working with the chipset vendor to solve the problem. This does mean that the problem is outside Delorme's control since the chipset firmware is typically provided by the vendor. However, it does not mean that it can't (or won't) be fixed. Patience is a virtue

 

Edited to add that us early Colorado adopters should be among the most virtuous folks on the planet.

 

Also, one of the Delorme forum threads quoted elsewhere in this thread seems to imply that the fix will part of the much-anticipated "geocaching firmware release" which is currently in controlled beta.

Edited December 30, 2008 by twolpert

[Grasscatcher]

DJM,

 

Notice how most of the above responses have that "The check is in the mail" ring to them" ?

 

Also note that the Delormer's party "line" will continue to try to convince you that you should "settle for" what their opinions of "good enough" accuracy and features are. Serious Tool?...Yeah,Right!

 

Check on the Delorme forum for posted examples of "out and back" tracklog inaccuracies. (Recorded in "real world" tree cover , not wide open ideal conditions)

 

Garmin's Oregon (same chipset)has the same problem(s), and the ETrex H series with the M Tech chipset has it's "drift" problem, and I wouldn't buy a Colorado on a bet.....even Garmin has already decided that it doesn't like them.

 

In short, just because it's new doesn't make a product better, or even acceptable....as "we" have found out. I already solved my problem though, my PN-40 was returned.....and I'm sure it is now working perfectly!

[DJMOLL]

Also, one of the Delorme forum threads quoted elsewhere in this thread seems to imply that the fix will part of the much-anticipated "geocaching firmware release" which is currently in controlled beta.

Twolpert,

I've seen references to the geocaching firmware update being in beta testing, but I haven't seen any references to a WAAS fix being incorporated into that update. Can you provide a link? (I'm obviously very interested in any updated WAAS fix status info.)

 

Thanks,

djmoll

[+TotemLake]

DJM,

 

Notice how most of the above responses have that "The check is in the mail" ring to them" ?

 

Also note that the Delormer's party "line" will continue to try to convince you that you should "settle for" what their opinions of "good enough" accuracy and features are. Serious Tool?...Yeah,Right!

 

Check on the Delorme forum for posted examples of "out and back" tracklog inaccuracies. (Recorded in "real world" tree cover , not wide open ideal conditions)

 

Garmin's Oregon (same chipset)has the same problem(s), and the ETrex H series with the M Tech chipset has it's "drift" problem, and I wouldn't buy a Colorado on a bet.....even Garmin has already decided that it doesn't like them.

 

In short, just because it's new doesn't make a product better, or even acceptable....as "we" have found out. I already solved my problem though, my PN-40 was returned.....and I'm sure it is now working perfectly!

With one major exception... DeLorme has responded they are working with the vendor for the solution. Have you heard a peep from Garmin yet? Just curious.

[+Redwoods Mtn Biker]

Garmin doesn't peep.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Good thing that we're not reading about the Yugo he bought!

[+dakboy]

With Delorme's two-week silence on this, and reports of similar problems with units from other manufacturers that use the same chipset, I'm fearful there is no quick fix. (It may be out of Delorme's direct control.)

2 weeks which include the Christmas & New Year's holidays which often mean many people take a week or more of vacation, and cleaning up after the massive ice storm that walloped the Northeast.

 

DeLorme did release some new firmware to beta testers in the past week or 10 days, but since everyone is presumably under NDA (for good reason!) you won't hear much.

[+RRLover]

Stu :

You're merciless, "I love ya man"!

 

Norm

[jholly]

Garmin doesn't peep.

 

Well my 76 beeps

 

Jim

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Garmin doesn't peep.

 

Well my 76 beeps

 

Jim

Ahhh-soooo, the special Road Runner edition?

[+twolpert]

Also, one of the Delorme forum threads quoted elsewhere in this thread seems to imply that the fix will part of the much-anticipated "geocaching firmware release" which is currently in controlled beta.

Twolpert,

I've seen references to the geocaching firmware update being in beta testing, but I haven't seen any references to a WAAS fix being incorporated into that update. Can you provide a link? (I'm obviously very interested in any updated WAAS fix status info.)

 

Thanks,

djmoll

It's the first post in this thread:

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16738

 

I made the leap that the public beta mentioned is for the geocaching firmware. I read the first paragraph to imply that the WAAS fix was included, but it's certainly open to interpretation. Out here in fly-over country (Missouri), 138 is low on the horizon -- and that seems to be the only one my PN-40 ever attempts. Haven't seen a WAAS lock yet.

[DJMOLL]

[it's the first post in this thread:

 

http://forum.delorme.com/viewtopic.php?t=16738

 

I made the leap that the public beta mentioned is for the geocaching firmware. I read the first paragraph to imply that the WAAS fix was included, but it's certainly open to interpretation. Out here in fly-over country (Missouri), 138 is low on the horizon -- and that seems to be the only one my PN-40 ever attempts. Haven't seen a WAAS lock yet.

Twolpert,

Thanks for the link. I guess I saw that some time ago, but forgot about it. Sounds like there is hope that an improvement for the WAAS problem may be available soon. I hope it is a significant improvement, not just a tweak.

 

I upgraded from my Meridian Platinum because of WAAS support issues from Magellan, but now, surprisingly, I'm facing essentially the same problem with the Delorme PN-40.

 

djmoll

[DJMOLL]

Sorry-duplicate post.

Edited January 2, 2009 by DJMOLL

[+Hrethgir]

I've never seen a WAAS lock on my PN-40, either, but it seems to have great accuracy regardless, it's always showing me on the aerial imagery exactly where I am. I almost wonder if the issue isn't so much that it isn't getting WAAS lock, bu that it is getting the lock, just no showing that it has the lock. Either way, I'm not going to sweat it, DeLorme has always been good about dealing with little issues, and it seems to have greaqt accuracy regardless, although I haven't gone looking for any benchmarks yet, I'll have to do that.

[+twolpert]

I've never seen a WAAS lock on my PN-40, either, but it seems to have great accuracy regardless, it's always showing me on the aerial imagery exactly where I am. I almost wonder if the issue isn't so much that it isn't getting WAAS lock, bu that it is getting the lock, just no showing that it has the lock. Either way, I'm not going to sweat it, DeLorme has always been good about dealing with little issues, and it seems to have greaqt accuracy regardless, although I haven't gone looking for any benchmarks yet, I'll have to do that.

Tried a local BM with PN-40, no WAAS lock (I've never gotten one either, but 138 is low on the horizon here in fly-over country), averaged the WP for about 5 minutes. 4 meters off, give or take. Consistent with 24 foot EPE at the time. Imagery shows good results for me, too.

[reef mapper]

 

If anybody can demonstrate the capability of their 60CSx with their position superimposed over Aerial Imagery (as opposed to maps of unverified accuracy), I'd be pleased to acknowledge such.

 

I added a screenshot of a track faithfully following a coast road on an aerial image on a 60Csx but its on the 60Csx group unfortunately, so a link won't work.

[yogazoo]

If anybody can demonstrate the capability of their 60CSx with their position superimposed over Aerial Imagery (as opposed to maps of unverified accuracy), I'd be pleased to acknowledge such.

 

I'll second Reef Mapper's comment...

 

It takes me about 15 seconds to take a 60CSX track from the unit, convert it to a KML (via DNRGarmin) and import it into Google Earth. Glad we could please you Cowboy.

Edited January 2, 2009 by yogazoo

[+dakboy]

You've said you can do it, but can't be bothered to throw it on Photobucket for free to actually show it? How can anyone "acknowledge" it if you're not actually presenting the evidence?