Garmin vs. Delorme... Newb Question

[mcgusto]

Hello to all on Groundspeak! (1st post here).

 

I've been browsing through the forums here and on gpsreview.net and been finding some great information. Anyway, here's my question:

 

I've been looking at getting my first GPS unit and basically narrowed it down to either the Garmin Vista Hcx or the new Delorme PN-40. I went back and forth for a long time, and I eventually went with the Garmin due to the ability of running the software on my MAC. (I have a G4 processor in my MAC, which means I wouldn't be able to run Windows on my Powerbook,- this basically put the Delorme software on the shelf).

 

I scowered the internet looking for the best deal on the Vista Hcx and eventually found it on Amazon for $199.

 

Lo and behold, literally two days after I order it (the Vista still hasn't arrived in the mail), I find out, via my work, I'll have access to a Windows-based machine, not only at work, but also at home. This now has me thinking I might be better off with the Delorme....

 

My primary uses would be long day hikes and tracklogs. (Sometimes 20+ miles, and anywhere from 8 to 16+ hours of hiking in a day), off-trail scrambling, and coastal kayaking. I would probably also use the unit for biking and some off-road traveling. Tim, over on gpsreview.net said my best bet for maps was definitely the Delorme, but it turns out where I live (CA), Garmin just released the 7.5 minute series for use on their GPS units.

 

The downside of the new maps with Garmin is they only come on SD cards, which means I won't be able to use the maps on the routing software on my laptop. So it's going to be $200 for the Vista, $100 for the CA maps, and then another $100 for some decent mapping software like Nat. Geog. TOPO! to accurately create some routes and waypoints. Total $400 (basically equal to the NEW PN-40) - and that is WITHOUT the topographical basemap and road routes offered with the Delorme either.

 

My one hesitation with the Delorme unit is battery life and holding satellites. I've read a lot of different reviews stating battery life to be ~8hours, when the vista has been shown to top 25+hours! On long dayhikes and using the GPS as a tracklog this would mean carrying extra batteries, maybe even 2 sets in the Delorme - not to mention the slew of problems I've read about the travel bundle rechargeable battery that came with the PN-20. (Not knocking Delorme here, just stating what I've read).

 

Vista Pros:

Battery life

Easy to use software

Smaller unit

 

Delorme Pros:

Higher detail in maps

Comes with nearly $200 worth of maps

Aerial Imagery

 

Anyone that has experience with both of these units, or maybe the Vista and PN-20, I'd like to here what you'd have say. If someone can point me in the right direction, I would highly appreciate it!

 

Gusto

[+Hrethgir]

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=204371

 

These are my thoughts on my Garmin Legend HCx (same as the Vista except for barometric altimeter and electronic compass) and my DeLorme PN-20. I'm definitely planning on selling the PN-20 and getting a PN-40, I really like the 20, and the stuff that I don't like about the 20, pretty much all speed related, seem to be taken care of with the 40. I do have some issues with coverage causing accuracy issues on the PN-20, much more than I have with the Legend HCx, but the PN-40 has a 32-channel receiver (as opposed to the 12 channel on the PN-20, and I think it's a completely different chip), so hopefully the coverage issues won't be much of an issue anymore. I don't think the PN-40 is totally out there yet, just the beta testers have them, so you won't hear too much from owners yet, I don't think.

 

For what you want to do with the unit, the DeLorme might be the best choice for you, as it can make a much longer track-log (10,000 points I think, while I think the Garmin only does 5,000. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me).

 

For the size difference, there isn't really that big of a difference, but the Garmin is a touch smaller.

 

I just downloaded my first bit of hi-res imagery today, as a matter of fact (going to Disneyland next week, just though it would be neat to have that), and it looks pretty cool. Soon, though, there is going to be a subscription service of $30/year that lets you download as much as you want, which would be sweet, as I just paid $6 for 6 km^2 of imagery, and that just covers Disneyland and a few streets and areas right around it, so you can see that getting a whole city right now will be more expensive than the subscription, especially the hi-res color stuff like I just got. The black and white stuff is hi-res, but no color obviously, but is only $0.05 km^2, and there is some color stuff that is much lower res for $0.10 km^2, but with the subscription service, you won't have to compromise, just get a big SD card!

 

Also, one last thing, the maps for the Garmin are available on both SD cards and on DVD discs. I think the discs are the best option, as you can use the maps on them on both the handheld AND in MapSource, and the disc-based maps can be updated, but the SD card ones can't.

[+Walts Hunting]

I have been caching for 4 years with 1350 finds. I have never seen anyone that didn't have a Garmin. There must be a reason.

[+Hrethgir]

I have been caching for 4 years with 1350 finds. I have never seen anyone that didn't have a Garmin. There must be a reason.

 

They are good, that's for sure. But the DeLorme is nice, too, and they seem to be gaining ground. Seems to me that Garmin has been resting on their laurels and going kind of stagnant, while DeLorme has an actual presence here on these boards, they have a forum of their own on their website, and they seem to be taking everything that people are saying and wanting to heart and putting that info to good use. I really like that. Read thru my thread, and you'll see that Team DeLorme (Chip Noble, one of the designers there) chimed in, and that means a lot to me, shows they actually care what people think and want from their product, and I don't see that from Garmin. I also see lots of threads, some very large ones, about people having problems with their Garmin units (drift issues with the new etrex series after updates, memory issues with the Oregon, rock-and-roll problems with the Colorado), and it seems like most of the responses from Garmin are either denial of any knowledge of the problem, or saying there's nothing they can do about it. Don't get me wrong, I know that most Garmin owners don't have problems, but it seems that when someone does, they are reluctant to do anything. I'm planning on keeping my Legend HCx, but probably more to use on my bicycle, while the DeLorme is quickly becoming my primary GPSr for geocaching (gotta love paperless!), and should be great on the motorcycle since it can autoroute right out of the box without having to buy even more software. Gotta like that!

[+TotemLake]

I have been caching for 4 years with 1350 finds. I have never seen anyone that didn't have a Garmin. There must be a reason.

 

They are good, that's for sure. But the DeLorme is nice, too, and they seem to be gaining ground. Seems to me that Garmin has been resting on their laurels and going kind of stagnant, while DeLorme has an actual presence here on these boards, they have a forum of their own on their website, and they seem to be taking everything that people are saying and wanting to heart and putting that info to good use. I really like that. Read thru my thread, and you'll see that Team DeLorme (Chip Noble, one of the designers there) chimed in, and that means a lot to me, shows they actually care what people think and want from their product, and I don't see that from Garmin. I also see lots of threads, some very large ones, about people having problems with their Garmin units (drift issues with the new etrex series after updates, memory issues with the Oregon, rock-and-roll problems with the Colorado), and it seems like most of the responses from Garmin are either denial of any knowledge of the problem, or saying there's nothing they can do about it. Don't get me wrong, I know that most Garmin owners don't have problems, but it seems that when someone does, they are reluctant to do anything. I'm planning on keeping my Legend HCx, but probably more to use on my bicycle, while the DeLorme is quickly becoming my primary GPSr for geocaching (gotta love paperless!), and should be great on the motorcycle since it can autoroute right out of the box without having to buy even more software. Gotta like that!

Blink back to a short year ago and you saw nothing but Magellan's name smeared across this forum with Garmin being praised. Enter the Colorado and it has been nothing but bad news ever since. Garmin's customer service has followed the route of Magellan. Garmin had better wake up or they will find themselves on the outside looking in.

[+embra]

My one hesitation with the Delorme unit is battery life and holding satellites. I've read a lot of different reviews stating battery life to be ~8hours, when the vista has been shown to top 25+hours! On long dayhikes and using the GPS as a tracklog this would mean carrying extra batteries, maybe even 2 sets in the Delorme - not to mention the slew of problems I've read about the travel bundle rechargeable battery that came with the PN-20. (Not knocking Delorme here, just stating what I've read).

I've been doing beta testing with the PN-40, and the battery life was something that Delorme had still been working on and so had been asking us to adhere to the non-disclosure agreement we signed on that issue. I'm guessing with some recent firmware releases that they've resolved that, so I'll check and see if we've got a green light to talk about battery life. For right now I'll just say I'm pretty happy with what they've been able to do. They're going to be well short of what the Garmins can do--25 hours operating time is pretty impressive--but my expectation is that one set of high-capacity NiMHs will get most people through a day's use on the PN-40.

 

I like the convenience of the Li-Ion that can be recharged in the GPS itself, but IIRC the Delorme Li-Ion is rated at 1400 mAh. For your use, the NiMHs that are up around 2800 or 2900 mAh would be best.

 

The $200 in free maps you cite might be a little inflated--it must include the Topo7 ($100) and the certificate for free imagery download ($40). That $40 will go real fast; they want to be able to give you a limited number of free samples to see what is available. But the $30 unlimited annual subscription is a fantastic deal.

 

I'd also note that you are probably right that the Garmin software is easier to use, but mostly that will be because the Delorme Topo7 does so much more. I think you will find it great for planning rides.

 

Last good point to make: Delorme gives a 30-day no-questions-asked refund period so you can try it out and only be out the return postage if you decide it's not for you.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that the PN-40 has seemed super holding lock. I use it a lot in heavy forest (Appalachian hardwood & pine), and I don't recall losing a signal once it's acquired.

Edited October 12, 2008 by embra

[+Hrethgir]

Edit: Forgot to mention that the PN-40 has seemed super holding lock. I use it a lot in heavy forest (Appalachian hardwood & pine), and I don't recall losing a signal once it's acquired.

 

Awesome, awesome, that and the slow redraw speeds are the only things I don't like about my PN-20. I know the dual processors takes care of the redraw speed (I've seen Chip's videos, very impressive), but my accuracy and everything really start going to crap once you start getting a little cover. The other day, I was looking for a cache under some trees near a building, and I had a great signal until I hit tree cover, and then the accuracy went bad and the distance to the cache started bouncing all over the place, ended up with a DNF. I'll try that one again with my Garmin and see what happens. My Legend HCx can see the satelites and get a lock (not with great accuracy, though) from the middle hall of the dowstairs floor of my 2-story apartment, probably a good 25 feet from any window, and with a second story above it, but my PN-20 can't even get a signal from my sofa that is directly in front of my living room window, and even from my back patio, it's got a very tenuous lock. I once walked from my car (great signal) to my patio and into the apartment with the satellite screen open, and I could watch the satellites drop off the screen as I got closer and closer, until I stepped indoors and they all dropped to zero. If the PN-40 takes care of those problems, and already knowing the speed issues is taken care of, than I will be one happy camper!

[BurnAss]

On DeLorme's web it says the PN-40 takes 600mW typical and less than 350mW power save. So with 2500mAh NiMH battery pack you can get about 12 hours in ideal situation (new fully charged battery pack, warm temperature, no backlight, etc.)

 

I am wondering what "power save" mode is. embra, you have any idea?

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I have been caching for 4 years with 1350 finds. I have never seen anyone that didn't have a Garmin. There must be a reason.

Perhaps the reason for not having seen a DeLorme is that they have only been out for less than half of that four years.

[+embra]

I am wondering what "power save" mode is.

I've not yet had that question answered, and the documentation doesn't yet spell it out. The only thing that I've noticed when driving while in power mode is that the track doesn't "keep up" with the current position marker...it looks a little like a vapor trail following a jet in the sky, not materializing until the plane is several seconds ahead. I just went out and walked around in the yard a little, and it looks like the same phenomenon occurs at walking speed, too, when zoomed in close.

 

My guess (and that's all it is) is that they throttle back one of the dual-core processors in power saving mode, and have the other take on all operations. If we get a couple more hours operating time on a set of batteries, that would seem an acceptable trade-off to me. I haven't been able to detect anything else that's cut back beside the screen re-draws, although I suspect there are some other places where they are pinching mW. It looks like the magnetic compass is still functioning.

[+Hrethgir]

I am wondering what "power save" mode is.

I've not yet had that question answered, and the documentation doesn't yet spell it out. The only thing that I've noticed when driving while in power mode is that the track doesn't "keep up" with the current position marker...it looks a little like a vapor trail following a jet in the sky, not materializing until the plane is several seconds ahead. I just went out and walked around in the yard a little, and it looks like the same phenomenon occurs at walking speed, too, when zoomed in close.

 

My guess (and that's all it is) is that they throttle back one of the dual-core processors in power saving mode, and have the other take on all operations. If we get a couple more hours operating time on a set of batteries, that would seem an acceptable trade-off to me. I haven't been able to detect anything else that's cut back beside the screen re-draws, although I suspect there are some other places where they are pinching mW. It looks like the magnetic compass is still functioning.

 

In my thread, I did a test of battery life in my units, and got 10 hours out of the DeLorme, while they say 12 hours. Chip came in and said the 12 hour claim is with the power-saver function on, so it's something else besides throttling down one processor, because my PN-20 only has one processor! My guess is it slows down the redraw intervals, which would lead to that vapor-trail thing you saw, since the display is always going to be kind of lagging behind the actual position. I've not tried the power saver mode on my PN-20, though, so I don't know what it does when in that mode. I'll bet anything that at least one part of it is disabling the backlight, that's a power eater right there.

Edited October 12, 2008 by HondaH8er

[MtnHermit]

I've been doing beta testing with the PN-40, and the battery life was something that Delorme had still been working on and so had been asking us to adhere to the non-disclosure agreement we signed on that issue.

Doesn't your NDA expire when they start shipping next week?

 

Also, since the PN-20 and the eTrex Vista H use the same MediaTek chip . . . I think? How do you account for the 3X battery life of the Vista?

[+embra]

Well, the ship date may have been pushed back between one to two weeks...Delorme has been referring recently to "late October" rather than Oct. 15.

 

As far as the battery life difference, I'm not at all sure. The only obvious thing to me is the dual-core processor of the PN-40. I couldn't locate an extensive specs sheet for the Vista HCx, but it looks like they both have electronic compass and altimeter (would a 3-axis compass use more power than a 2-axis?).

 

Delorme says that the PN-40 uses the 32-channel Cartesio chipset by STMicroelectronics. Oh, wait, you were comparing to the PN-20. I'll top up my 2750 mAh NiMHs and do a rundown with the 20 to see how it does.

[+Klemmer]

My take:

 

--> Garmin is primarily an electronics company (professional level GPS receivers, airborne, etc) that also sells electronic maps.

 

--> Delorme is a primarily mapping company (professional level GIS mapping software, etc) that also sells GPS receivers.

 

I think those statements are factual, and reasonably fair to both companies. Someone may nitpick them, but you get the idea.

 

So - take your pick - which is more important to you?

 

On a personal note, mapping is much more important to me. I was using Delorme mapping software (Topo USA ver 3.0 & TopoQuads ver 1.0) for years before they sold their first handheld unit (the PN-20). [Note: Yes, I know Delorme sold "receiver only" type units before that, but it's not practical to carry a laptop in the woods!]. I have also owned (still own!) several Garmin units and a Magellan. All had their day. I now use my Delorme PN-20 95% of the time, and have a PN-40 on order. Draw your own conclusions.

 

P.S. I know a fair amount about mapping on GPS receivers, and have written an article on the subject.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama

[mcgusto]

Thanks to everyone for the replies and thoughts. It seems getting that first GPS had more entailed to it than I thought!

 

Gusto

[+Hrethgir]

Thanks to everyone for the replies and thoughts. It seems getting that first GPS had more entailed to it than I thought!

 

Gusto

 

Well, you want to get the one that fits your needs the best, and there are enough options out there that it's not a super simple pick, but between the two you have it narrowed down to, they are both good units, you can't really go "wrong" with either. That's why I'm going to sell my PN-20 and get a PN-40, but will probably keep my Legend HCx, as they each have things I like. Besides, it can't hurt to have a spare!

[MtnHermit]

On a personal note, mapping is much more important to me. I was using Delorme mapping software (Topo USA ver 3.0 & TopoQuads ver 1.0) for years before they sold their first handheld unit (the PN-20). [Note: Yes, I know Delorme sold "receiver only" type units before that, but it's not practical to carry a laptop in the woods!]. I have also owned (still own!) several Garmin units and a Magellan. All had their day. I now use my Delorme PN-20 95% of the time, and have a PN-40 on order. Draw your own conclusions.

If the map landscape only included Garmin maps vs. DeLorme maps, you might have a valid point. I use Above the Timber's topos in my Garmin GPS receivers. DeLorme's Topo N is an inferior 100K map set, similiar to Garmin's Topo USA. While the raster 3DTQ's are great as printed objects, they pale when compared to a good vector topo inside a GPS. By example, I have all of Colo and Utah at 24K on a 1GB card inside my GPS, try that with 3DTQ's. AND, every object in a vector map can be IDed, whereas your raster topos are just pixels.

 

So yes I've drawn my own conclusion, I prefer a good vector topo!!!

[+Team DeLorme]

I've been doing beta testing with the PN-40, and the battery life was something that Delorme had still been working on and so had been asking us to adhere to the non-disclosure agreement we signed on that issue.

Doesn't your NDA expire when they start shipping next week?

 

Also, since the PN-20 and the eTrex Vista H use the same MediaTek chip . . . I think? How do you account for the 3X battery life of the Vista?

 

FWIW, The PN-20 uses the STMicroelectronics "Teseo" chipset and the PN-40 uses the STMicroelectronics "Cartesio" chipset.

 

-Brian

[+GadgetMonster]

I say get both.

[MtnHermit]

Also, since the PN-20 and the eTrex Vista H use the same MediaTek chip . . . I think? How do you account for the 3X battery life of the Vista?

FWIW, The PN-20 uses the STMicroelectronics "Teseo" chipset and the PN-40 uses the STMicroelectronics "Cartesio" chipset.

 

-Brian

Thanks Brian, that is indeed a useful tidbit.

 

Any light you could shed on battery life and/or what are the sources of most energy consumption would be most helpful.

[+scubahhh]

I use and swear by Delorme.

 

Why not buy boht; test them side-by-side for a while, doing whatever you'll be doing with the one you keep; and return whichever unit YOU find inferior?

[+embra]

I'll top up my 2750 mAh NiMHs and do a rundown with the 20 to see how it does.

In power saving mode, I got 17 hours and 45 minutes on the PN-20.

 

Another thing I noticed in power-saving mode on the PN-20 is that the trip odometer clock updates every two seconds. On the PN-40, it still counts second by second (as the PN-20 does when in normal mode).

[+Team DeLorme]

Thanks Brian, that is indeed a useful tidbit.

 

Any light you could shed on battery life and/or what are the sources of most energy consumption would be most helpful.

The last numbers I saw on power consumption showed 11 hours for Li-Ion and Alkaline, 13 hours for NiMH at 2650 mAh, and 22 hours for e2 Lithium. There are still some tests being run but I would expect those numbers to be pretty close. The main power draw is the backlight and the dual processor. We have configured Power Saving mode (the option used for these numbers) to turn off the backlight after 15 seconds and to step down the dual processor. Pressing any of the buttons on the device will turn these components back on. The track is still stored and the GPS still maintains communication with the satellites.

 

Vector data is definitely smaller in size and allows you to fit more than our raster USGS data. Lately I've been going straight to the aerial imagery, the resolution available in that data is amazing... here's a screenshot from my last bird hunting trip. I used the aerial imagery to pick my way from a dead end logging road, through a series of skidder trails, back onto the road where my truck was parked. You couldn't do that with USGS data or topographic data. $29.95 for the DeLorme Map Library... get as much data as you want. I sent half of Maine's Wildlife Management Zone 17 with a friend for the moose hunt... topographic, USGS, aerial... 1,000 square miles at 1 meter resolution... $29.95 and about 6 GB of data. I'll be doing the same for a bird hunting trip in Weld, ME this weekend. Sorry, I get carried away sometimes... it's not just about the USGS quads anymore.

 

Let me know if you have any more questions.

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

 

 

 

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Thanks Brian, that is indeed a useful tidbit.

 

Any light you could shed on battery life and/or what are the sources of most energy consumption would be most helpful.

....... The main power draw is the backlight and the dual processor. We have configured Power Saving mode (the option used for these numbers) to turn off the backlight after 15 seconds and to step down the dual processor. Pressing any of the buttons on the device will turn these components back on. The track is still stored and the GPS still maintains communication with the satellites.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

 

Chip,

 

I generally set the slider on my backlight intensity to about 50%, and if IIRC, imposing the Power Saving mode also resets that slider to bout 30%.

 

Also, in total agreement with the USGS 2DTQs as a back burner item with the Color Aerial imagery now available for back country work. The new City Hi-def photo imagery is also dynamite for city geocaching.

[+benjamin921]

For the uses that you are going to use this for, the DeLorme would be the way to go. It has all been said above but the mapping, speed redraw and satellite lock are very very good.

[+embra]

If Chip's talking battery times, I guess that's a green light. I can corroborate his reported numbers: in power-saving mode on the PN-40 I got 11.5 hours out of the Li-Ion and 16.4 hours out of those 2650 mAh NiMHs. I figure a set of 2900 mAh NiMHs (the highest rating I see at Thomas Distributing) would give me up to 18 hours or so on the trail.

 

So I'm not worried about a day's expedition. A multi-day hike may take some more backup and/or creativity...as rarely as I do that, maybe I'd spring for some of those lithium e2's.

[+RRLover]

I got a 4 pair of those 2900s from Thomas, their mAhs are all over the place, can't really make

a matched pair w/8 to pick from. Cycled and broken in correctly using the MAHA MH-C9000.

They range from 2200 2730 or so, no two batteries close enough for serious use, great for a

radio or something not critical, or where 4 batteries are used. Tolerances aren't as tight as one

might expect from Thomas Dist.. . . . . Your Yak May Vomit ;^)

 

Norm

[+embra]

Thanks for the warning, Norm, I'll probably set my sights a little lower when I make my next buy.

 

How do you go about determining the actual mAh capacity of a given battery?

[+g-o-cashers]

The MAHA MH-C9000 has a discharge/charge mode which will tell you the capacity of a given battery. They do vary quite a bit. Some of the 2700 mAh PowerEx's I bought the first time around seem to be more like 2400-2500. The newest batch is 2700-2750.

 

GO$Rs

[+Team CowboyPapa]

The MAHA MH-C9000 has a discharge/charge mode which will tell you the capacity of a given battery. They do vary quite a bit. Some of the 2700 mAh PowerEx's I bought the first time around seem to be more like 2400-2500. The newest batch is 2700-2750.

 

GO$Rs

Awww..............I didn't need to know that. I was happy with my current MAHA charger.

[mcgusto]

Well... after much deliberation, my Vista Hcx came in the mail yesterday and I sat and stared at the box wondering what I was going to do. I opened up the box to check out the unit and noticed on the Mapsource CD it said "Not MAC Compatible." Hmm..... that's weird.... Mac compatibility was the main reason I got the Vista Hcx instead of the Delorme.

 

Needless to say, I didn't need any more convincing to print out a return receipt to Amazon and place my order for the new PN-40. (Let's just say the confirmation of the battery life on the new PN-40 helped a little bit too

 

In the end, I just couldn't justify (for the Vista Hcx)

Vista Hcx- $200

CA 7.5minute maps from Garmin -$100

TOPO! Nat. Geog. software - $100

Total =$400

 

for a unit with the kind of software problems I've read about in the some of the other posts.

 

Then there's the NEW PN-40

$400

Includes base set of Topo maps

Road Maps

Access to aerial imagery

Access to NOAA nautical maps

Option for $30 membership unlimited maps

 

If I was to get all this on the Garmin, it would total out at $400 anyway!

 

And while I won't have the 7.5 minute maps coming with the PN-40, I read somewhere that PN-40/20 owners get 50% off on the state series maps... Anyone know if this still stands? ($50 vs. $100- if you just want to buy them instead of downloading)

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Gusto

[+Team CowboyPapa]

 

And while I won't have the 7.5 minute maps coming with the PN-40, I read somewhere that PN-40/20 owners get 50% off on the state series maps... Anyone know if this still stands? ($50 vs. $100- if you just want to buy them instead of downloading)

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

Gusto

Yes, according to this

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtp...p?section=10340

they are still available and I believe at 50% of for PN-20, -40 purchasers. OTOH, one can download the same imagery in addtion to the aerial and satellite imagery for an annual subscription of $29.95.

Edited October 15, 2008 by Team CowboyPapa

[mcgusto]

 

Yes, according to this

http://shop.delorme.com/OA_HTML/DELibeCCtp...p?section=10340

they are still available and I believe at 50% of for PN-20, -40 purchasers. OTOH, one can download the same imagery in addtion to the aerial and satellite imagery for an annual subscription of $29.95.

 

Indeed, this is still true. I called Delorme today to update my order and received $50% the quoted price on the USGS CA South 7.5 minute series. Now it's just sit back and wait for Delorme to ship.... Can't wait to get this thing up and running.

 

As for the $30 subscription, I might do that eventually, especially for the NOAA charts. I asked the Delorme rep on the phone if they sold them in a DVD, but the NOAA charts are only available with the online subscription.

 

Still don't know why the Vista Hcx unit came with software not compatible with MAC?

 

I'm guessing I would have had to download this:

 

http://www8.garmin.com/support/collection....ct=999-99999-06

 

and then use the software included? It seems weird they wouldn't just include the MAC version on the CD.

 

Gusto

[+RRLover]

@ mcgusto :

On a side note; DeLormes' software is (at this time) also not written for MAC, you'll have

the added overhead of virtualization (if no 'BootCamp') and a copy of windows XP.

If you're running pre Intel processor than all bets are off, 'Virtual PC' was bought by

MicroSoft and promptly EOLd.

 

Norm

[mcgusto]

@ mcgusto :

On a side note; DeLormes' software is (at this time) also not written for MAC, you'll have

the added overhead of virtualization (if no 'BootCamp') and a copy of windows XP.

If you're running pre Intel processor than all bets are off, 'Virtual PC' was bought by

MicroSoft and promptly EOLd.

 

Norm

 

Yeah, I know that too. Originally, (way back at the beginning of the post), I noted I chose the Vista Hcx because I didn't have access to a PC. However, through my work, I now have full time access to a PC. (Hence the return of the Hcx). I was just surprised that the product didn't SHIP with MAC software included.

 

It really seems, unless your running Parallels or Bootcamp or something similar, as far as the GPS world is concerned, you're pretty much out of luck.

 

Gusto

[+RRLover]

Yes options are limited, but not insurmountable, still quite the hassle. And sometimes expensive

in time, money, and problem-solving mental puzzle stuff. Not to mention hard-drive space. In the

big picture though, regarding the fewer hassles involved with OS-BS, and native app. ease, it still

balances to the MAC(intosh) favor.

There are those who feel different, and that's OK, they're free to do so.

I hear rumor that there's an Apple emulator for Windows, sure took a long time, 't'd be cool to check

it out, on Windows, via Parallels, just for s&gs. That'd sure give the ol' processor a cardiac workout.

 

NSHO

 

Norm

 

P.S. :

Looking at my stocks, I purchased equal values of Apple & Microsoft 8 years ago, the scales

are tipping towards the Apple side, Apple +$, Microsoft -$. I just bought because I could &

"Let 'er ride", big black #s for Apple, and little red ones for M/S. and so it goes.

[joesdolphins]

I own a garmin Colorado and its the best gps out there next to the 60csx. I was able to do some caching with delorme pn-40 owner. My Colorado was more accurate when next to the caches. And the paperless caching is way better than the pn-40 the pn-40 didnt have all the cache discriptions and is not totally compadible with geocaching.com yet not until another firm ware update thats not out yet.Face garmin rules!!

One other thing alot of people think the colorado still has problems. The unit is awsome garmin fixed all its problems with firm ware updates. Every revue i read on the colorado is old before all the updates.