NightTracker Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I had a idea the other day about hiding a few geocaches in my area. I was wondering if I could hide a "one time find" geocache. The idea is that i would put it way back out of the way of any road or trail (3-5kms), hide it in a container that the finder can take and use as his/her own. I was thinking too that the bonus for the hardcore lucky finder would be a dinner for two, a gift certificate, or just cash..something around a $50 value maybe more. After the FTF and the geocacher takes the cache and the prize it would then be archieved. So has anybody ever done this or come across a geocache of this type? Thanks in advance for the responses and happy hunting. Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) That wouldn't be listed here: When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there. We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life. I'm not sure what the reason would be to do it anyway. A valuable FTF prize, fine, but why archive the cache? Edited October 2, 2008 by Dinoprophet Quote Link to comment
NightTracker Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 That wouldn't be listed here: When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there. We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life. I'm not sure what the reason would be to do it anyway. A valuable FTF prize, fine, but why archive the cache? I could keep the cache there and just have a good FTF prize, but I'm pretty sure that not a whole lot of people unless they were die hards would be the only ones to go looking. Quote Link to comment
+vw_k Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 How about putting one container inside another? Then the FTF can take the container and set a new cache whilst leaving the original cache in place for others to find. There have been "Breeder" caches set which require finders to also place another cache in the area in order to log the find. Remember more than one person may go hunting for a FTF on the day it is published, especially with a FTF prize like you are suggesting, it would be a shame if the second person to get there couldn't find anything, as they'd have no idea they'd been beaten to it until they got home from their 3-5km hike and checked online. Quote Link to comment
rogheff Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 There was once a similar series of caches in my neck of the woods. The difference was that the really interesting container survived for a very short time and was replaced with a generic container. But a one time shot, found once then archived would be a temporary cache. Those are not allowed to be listed on this website. Other sites would allow this type, but I wonder why you'd want it listed in the first place? Why not just give a bunch of people some coords and have them go look? Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) That wouldn't be listed here: When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there. We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life. I'm not sure what the reason would be to do it anyway. A valuable FTF prize, fine, but why archive the cache? I could keep the cache there and just have a good FTF prize, but I'm pretty sure that not a whole lot of people unless they were die hards would be the only ones to go looking. The more 3-5km hike caches there are, the better. Don't worry about the number of finders. Those who are willing to tackle it will be very grateful. Edited October 2, 2008 by Dinoprophet Quote Link to comment
+KoosKoos Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 From the listing guidelines: Cache Permanence When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there. We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life. As others have said, don't worry about low numbers of finders if this is the type of cache you want to place. If only 1 or 2 people have fun with it in a year, it's still fun! Quote Link to comment
+Quiggle Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 How about putting one container inside another? Then the FTF can take the container and set a new cache whilst leaving the original cache in place for others to find. There have been "Breeder" caches set which require finders to also place another cache in the area in order to log the find. You can no longer require a new cache be hidden to fulfill a requirement for your cache. Quote Link to comment
NightTracker Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) Ok, so I will do a deep in the woods (3-5Km) hike where the cache container remains but will have a great FTF prize. I'm in the area of where i want to hide the cache quite often, so maintenance would not be a problem at all. Thanks for the replies. Edited October 2, 2008 by NightTracker Quote Link to comment
NightTracker Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 Quiggle, So I can still have a cache container for the FTF inside of the cache that will remain, just as long as the finder takes it back with them? Quote Link to comment
+CBT69 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Quiggle, So I can still have a cache container for the FTF inside of the cache that will remain, just as long as the finder takes it back with them? Yep. That's just a FTF prize. You can _encourage_ they place a new hide somewhere with it, but you, apparently, can not make it a condition of the find. There are a few like that around here, a Mother and Babies setup, where the original M.O.A.C. had like.. 40 or so minis set up, ready to go within, and people just picked them up and rehid them all over the place. Kinda fun to find them all, as they scattered pretty widely over the last couple years. Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Quiggle, So I can still have a cache container for the FTF inside of the cache that will remain, just as long as the finder takes it back with them? (tag team answer) Sure, you can have a ready to go cache as a FTF prize. I am not understanding why you would want to require that the FTF take it with them. Quote Link to comment
NightTracker Posted October 2, 2008 Author Share Posted October 2, 2008 Moose_Mob, I first started out asking if I could have a "one time find" type of cache where the finder gets a great FTF price and the original container for their efforts after a long hike. But after great posts from geocacher's, I know now that I cannot hide a temp. cache. So now i'm going to hide a cache where the finder must hike 3-5kms, can find a very interesting container with a great FTF price as well as ready to go cache container. So the original cache can stay for others to find. I just figure if i'm going to make people hike that far i want it worth their efforts. Quote Link to comment
+ArcherDragoon Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Moose_Mob, I first started out asking if I could have a "one time find" type of cache where the finder gets a great FTF price and the original container for their efforts after a long hike. But after great posts from geocacher's, I know now that I cannot hide a temp. cache. So now i'm going to hide a cache where the finder must hike 3-5kms, can find a very interesting container with a great FTF price as well as ready to go cache container. So the original cache can stay for others to find. I just figure if i'm going to make people hike that far i want it worth their efforts. You can leave a ready made cache container in the cache you are placing as a first to find prize...but, the first-finder will decide whether he/she will take the prize...I think that is waht MooseMob was trying to get at. You can't really require the first person to find the cache to take the prize...some will consider the hike and location itself the prize. Personally, if I am First-To-Find on a cache...it is a rare occassion if I take the prize...I usually leave it for someone else. Quote Link to comment
+D@nim@l Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) You could probably get away with this despite what the "guidelines" state. You would just have to be careful with your wording and be quick to archive it. However by posting the idea here you have outed yourself. You probably would not be able to get way with it twice. I say go for it. It sounds like fun and generous. Edited October 2, 2008 by D@nim@l Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 That wouldn't be listed here: When you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there. We realize that it is possible that a planned long-term cache occasionally becomes finite because of concerns with the environment, missing or plundered caches, or the owner’s decision to remove the cache for other valid reasons. Please do your best to research fully, hide wisely, and maintain properly for a long cache life. I'm not sure what the reason would be to do it anyway. A valuable FTF prize, fine, but why archive the cache? I could keep the cache there and just have a good FTF prize, but I'm pretty sure that not a whole lot of people unless they were die hards would be the only ones to go looking. Your prose is a bit dense and confusing to me, but, if I read you correctly, you seem to be saying that you are/were tempted to try to make this a one-shot-finder-takes-it-away cache because you are convinced that the cache, since it will be located in a rather rural location, would likely attract few finders past the FTF. If that is indeed what you were trying to say, please bear in mind the the vast majority of caches placed during the first four years of the existence of this sport were traditional caches placed in very similar settings, that is, rural or wilderness settings where a hike is required, and even today, many of the most-valued geocaches still are placed in rural or wilderness areas and require a significant hike and a significant investment of time in order to find them. And, these are very often, the best caches, by my standards and by the standards of many other cachers. Yes, it is true that they may garner only a tenth or a twentieth, or even a hundredth, of the number of finds accrued by a lame urban drive-by micro or park-n-grab micro, but the difference is QUALITY. In fact, some of my best and most acclaimed extreme caches have been found, on average, by only two or three finders per year once the initial surge of finds during the first few months ended. And, two of my really extreme caches average less than one find per year; this is true of many very high-quality but hard-to-reach caches, including many high-Terrain-rating caches, and it is no reason to archive a cache as soon as the FTF rush (if there ever was one...) has ended. Quote Link to comment
Dinoprophet Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 What Vinnie said. Long hike, great swag, and you're dedicated to maintenance. Sounds like a keeper! Quote Link to comment
+Moose Mob Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Another thing I have seen is a the hider would place an amnmo can, and inside the log book of that ammo can is a slip of paper with the coordinates for a fully stocked ready to go ammo can that they could take with. That prize is hard to pass up. As far as other options would be spectacular SWAG, like headlamps or an unactivated geocoincoin (or a Moun10bike coin). Just don't feel that a super fantastic prize is required. Many folks will take the trip just for the location. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 You could probably get away with this despite what the "guidelines" state. You would just have to be careful with your wording and be quick to archive it. However by posting the idea here you have outed yourself. You probably would not be able to get way with it twice. I say go for it. It sounds like fun and generous. Good advice. Make sure the reviewer is unable to trust what he says about any future hides. Quote Link to comment
+D@nim@l Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 You could probably get away with this despite what the "guidelines" state. You would just have to be careful with your wording and be quick to archive it. However by posting the idea here you have outed yourself. You probably would not be able to get way with it twice. I say go for it. It sounds like fun and generous. Good advice. Make sure the reviewer is unable to trust what he says about any future hides. Good point. Try using a sock puppet account to hide this surprise cache . Quote Link to comment
+Vinny & Sue Team Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) You could probably get away with this despite what the "guidelines" state. You would just have to be careful with your wording and be quick to archive it. However by posting the idea here you have outed yourself. You probably would not be able to get way with it twice. I say go for it. It sounds like fun and generous. I sure hope that you are joking, otherwise, by the tenets of my religion, which is the only and one right religion, if you ARE serious, then your immortal soul will rot in h3ll for eternity for encouraging this obviously newbie cacher to break the eleventh Commandment, which clearly states: "Thou shalt not place a short-lived cache in vain." So, if you were serious, it is not too soon to start doing penance [see footnote #1] for perhaps fourteen hours each day, in the hopes that God might forgive you for your trespass. Go, and sin no more. footnote #1: When it comes to doing penance, I always recommend starting with the practice which was most favored by the Desert Fathers (the early Christian Hermits of the Hesychast tradition, who lived in the Scetes Desert of Egypt) of the third, fourth and fifth centuries AD, namely, the practice of self-flagellation, striking one's own bare back repeatedly with a whip soaked in vinegar, while shouting "God, forgive me for my sins!". Of course, they did this for hours on end under the hot desert sun; you might not have a hot desert sun available where you live. But I trust that you will find a way to adhere to the spirit of the whole thing. Edited October 2, 2008 by Vinny & Sue Team Quote Link to comment
+Guinness70 Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 (edited) I had a idea the other day about hiding a few geocaches in my area. I was wondering if I could hide a "one time find" geocache. The idea is that i would put it way back out of the way of any road or trail (3-5kms), hide it in a container that the finder can take and use as his/her own. I was thinking too that the bonus for the hardcore lucky finder would be a dinner for two, a gift certificate, or just cash..something around a $50 value maybe more. After the FTF and the geocacher takes the cache and the prize it would then be archieved. So has anybody ever done this or come across a geocache of this type? Thanks in advance for the responses and happy hunting. LOL ... your daddy gave you the choice : a Corvette or hiding caches? go for it!! you should do at least 7 of these per week! place it in the same spot, that way yer local FTF hound can find an FTF everyday and after a few weeks he can afford a second GPSr. your local reviewer is going to love you! Cache PermanenceWhen you report a cache on the Geocaching.com web site, geocachers should (and will) expect the cache to be there for a realistic and extended period of time. Therefore, caches that have the goal to move ("traveling caches"), or temporary caches (caches hidden for less than 3 months or for events) most likely will not be published. If you wish to hide caches for an event, bring printouts to the event and hand them out there. at least read all of http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx once Edited October 2, 2008 by Guinness70 Quote Link to comment
+Kit Fox Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Moose_Mob, I first started out asking if I could have a "one time find" type of cache where the finder gets a great FTF price and the original container for their efforts after a long hike. But after great posts from geocacher's, I know now that I cannot hide a temp. cache. So now i'm going to hide a cache where the finder must hike 3-5kms, can find a very interesting container with a great FTF price as well as ready to go cache container. So the original cache can stay for others to find. I just figure if i'm going to make people hike that far i want it worth their efforts. I think I speak for many adventurous geocachers when I say this, You don't need to bait your cache with a great FTF prize. Finding caches hidden in great locations , requiring a nice hike are rewarding enough. I like to find dry caches, hidden in great locations. Share a scenic spot, or a historical point, and i'm happy. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 ...So has anybody ever done this or come across a geocache of this type?... It's been done and complications from what seems so simple led to the creating of the cache permanence rule. Moose mob covered the plan b. Mention in a cache a nearby one time hide. You can put that on your calling card. Someone pickes up the card (now nobody else is going to follow them and look for what's not there) and finds your one time only bonus. Quote Link to comment
+LDove Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 How about putting one container inside another? Then the FTF can take the container and set a new cache whilst leaving the original cache in place for others to find. There have been "Breeder" caches set which require finders to also place another cache in the area in order to log the find. You can no longer require a new cache be hidden to fulfill a requirement for your cache. People are still doing that around here. Is this a new guideline? I hate it when they make me hide a new cache, cause usually they are micros. Quote Link to comment
Skippermark Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 I think it's cool to find a ready to go cache container or even a cache that suggests someone place other caches in the area if they like the trail or whatever, but forcing people isn't good. It will just lead to cruddy caches being placed for the sake of finding the original cache. People should hide caches because they want to, not because they're forced to. I'm guessing that's why TBTB changed the guidelines. Quote Link to comment
+GreenMountainTreasureHunters Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Moose_Mob, I first started out asking if I could have a "one time find" type of cache where the finder gets a great FTF price and the original container for their efforts after a long hike. But after great posts from geocacher's, I know now that I cannot hide a temp. cache. So now i'm going to hide a cache where the finder must hike 3-5kms, can find a very interesting container with a great FTF price as well as ready to go cache container. So the original cache can stay for others to find. I just figure if i'm going to make people hike that far i want it worth their efforts. Is it a *nice* hike, or a hike to an interesting/picturesque/etc. location? If so, I don't think you need to bait people with an expensive prize. The hike and/or destination itself is the prize. Good luck! Quote Link to comment
+paleolith Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 If the cache requires a 3km hike, then only people who enjoy hiking will find it. You could put a $100 bill in for FTF and still only people who enjoy hiking will find it. And if the 3km isn't isn't a fun hike, see above. OTOH, if it's a good hike, hikers will go jsut for the hike, no special prize needed, certainly not beyond the cache itself. FTF prizes are overrated, based on the logs I've read of FTFers leaving the prize. Edward Quote Link to comment
+Quiggle Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 People are still doing that around here. Is this a new guideline? I hate it when they make me hide a new cache, cause usually they are micros. It's been in place for a while now. Your WI reviewers aren't likely to be publishing them, so they may be older caches. If you have any samples, I suggest letting them know so they can make sure everyone is on the same playing field. Quote Link to comment
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