The OTHER Thanks, But No Thanks! Thread

[+TrailGators]

I really think the problem is that there is no clean way to split the numbers game from the creative cache hunting game. They are tangled up together in one big mess. As soon as there is a good way these threads will die down.

I agree with Sbell and Mr. T that these aren't two games that can be split since there are so many people that enjoy both. The tangled together in one big mess is due to the way the game works and less to do with any restrictions the website has on how the players can get their information.

I agree that it's how the game works as it is today. However, there are things that website could do to help people parse out the more creative caches which they prefer. I think V2 of the website is going to do this but I haven't heard an update for a long time.

You didn't even read my post did you?

 

Nothing the web site does will cause the many people that enjoy both to suddenly choose one extreme or the other. There is such a large number of people that enjoy both "numbers" as well as "creative" caches because of the way the game works, and not at all because of tools the web site makes available for getting information on caches.

I'm not sure we are disagreeing. I already explained why I was not discussing the middle group.

 

My point is that there are also a large number of people that do not enjoy numbers caches and prefer creative caches. V2 of the website will have some new features to help this group. So TPTB have recognized the need and are doing something about it. I'm just not sure when this will happen.

[Mushtang]

I really think the problem is that there is no clean way to split the numbers game from the creative cache hunting game. They are tangled up together in one big mess. As soon as there is a good way these threads will die down.

I agree with Sbell and Mr. T that these aren't two games that can be split since there are so many people that enjoy both. The tangled together in one big mess is due to the way the game works and less to do with any restrictions the website has on how the players can get their information.

I agree that it's how the game works as it is today. However, there are things that website could do to help people parse out the more creative caches which they prefer. I think V2 of the website is going to do this but I haven't heard an update for a long time.

You didn't even read my post did you?

 

Nothing the web site does will cause the many people that enjoy both to suddenly choose one extreme or the other. There is such a large number of people that enjoy both "numbers" as well as "creative" caches because of the way the game works, and not at all because of tools the web site makes available for getting information on caches.

I'm not sure we are disagreeing. I already explained why I was not discussing the middle group.

 

My point is that there are also a large number of people that do not enjoy numbers caches and prefer creative caches. V2 of the website will have some new features to help this group. So TPTB have recognized the need and are doing something about it. I'm just not sure when this will happen.

I honestly don't think you're reading what one of us has written.

[+TrailGators]

I really think the problem is that there is no clean way to split the numbers game from the creative cache hunting game. They are tangled up together in one big mess. As soon as there is a good way these threads will die down.

I agree with Sbell and Mr. T that these aren't two games that can be split since there are so many people that enjoy both. The tangled together in one big mess is due to the way the game works and less to do with any restrictions the website has on how the players can get their information.

I agree that it's how the game works as it is today. However, there are things that website could do to help people parse out the more creative caches which they prefer. I think V2 of the website is going to do this but I haven't heard an update for a long time.

You didn't even read my post did you?

 

Nothing the web site does will cause the many people that enjoy both to suddenly choose one extreme or the other. There is such a large number of people that enjoy both "numbers" as well as "creative" caches because of the way the game works, and not at all because of tools the web site makes available for getting information on caches.

I'm not sure we are disagreeing. I already explained why I was not discussing the middle group.

 

My point is that there are also a large number of people that do not enjoy numbers caches and prefer creative caches. V2 of the website will have some new features to help this group. So TPTB have recognized the need and are doing something about it. I'm just not sure when this will happen.

I honestly don't think you're reading what one of us has written.

I've made my point twice now. I'm not getting tangled up in another mosh pit with you guys.

[Mushtang]

I really think the problem is that there is no clean way to split the numbers game from the creative cache hunting game. They are tangled up together in one big mess. As soon as there is a good way these threads will die down.

I agree with Sbell and Mr. T that these aren't two games that can be split since there are so many people that enjoy both. The tangled together in one big mess is due to the way the game works and less to do with any restrictions the website has on how the players can get their information.

I agree that it's how the game works as it is today. However, there are things that website could do to help people parse out the more creative caches which they prefer. I think V2 of the website is going to do this but I haven't heard an update for a long time.

You didn't even read my post did you?

 

Nothing the web site does will cause the many people that enjoy both to suddenly choose one extreme or the other. There is such a large number of people that enjoy both "numbers" as well as "creative" caches because of the way the game works, and not at all because of tools the web site makes available for getting information on caches.

I'm not sure we are disagreeing. I already explained why I was not discussing the middle group.

 

My point is that there are also a large number of people that do not enjoy numbers caches and prefer creative caches. V2 of the website will have some new features to help this group. So TPTB have recognized the need and are doing something about it. I'm just not sure when this will happen.

I honestly don't think you're reading what one of us has written.

I've made my point twice now. I'm not getting tangled up in another mosh pit with you guys.

Fair enough.

[+sbell111]

You and I will never agree on this. You have your opinion and I have mine. I see two very common styles of caching and you don't. Each style affects the game in different ways.

Even if they are only two styles of caching, I know very well that many cachers will do both - often combining them. I sometimes go caching with EMC of Northridge, CA. Sometimes we follow a route she has planned through some suburban area grabbing caches from parks and parking lots. They will include a few LPCs but every time there are always a few caches where we admire someone's skill at camouflage or some clever hide that makes us all laugh. Other times, EMC and I will climb a mountain just to find one or two caches. I suspect that all the "numbers" cachers as you call them are like that. They seem to have fun whether they are finding what you call a lame cache or they are searching for a well hidden cache or are hiking several mile to find a single cache.

I agree with you. Numbers cachers are the most adaptable because they seem to like anything. On the flip-side there are many people who don't enjoy just anything. It's easier to discuss the ends of the spectrum and how they contrast and affect the game. That is why I'm not discussing the middle although I know that it exists and may even be the largest group.

So your really saying that the two types fo cachers are not 'numbers' and 'quality', but 'having fun' and 'angsty'.

The only think that makes people 'angsty' are snide comments like that one...

Come on. Compared to some of your zingers, that was nothing. A mere 'lipstick on a pig' kind of comment.

 

I was merely making the point that the two 'types' of cachers appear to be those that decide to have fun no matter what they find while at the same time recognizing that caches that that don't batten their hatches are still enjoyed by others and those cachers that do not find their enjoyment within and try to mold the game to fit their desires, whether others would enjoy the caches that would be lost, or not.

 

BTW, the most important part of my post was the part that you pruned away:

I think that it's important to remember that most people are in the middle. The extremes don't drive the game, or life for that matter.

Some in this thread appear to be making the case that TPTB should somehow cater to those out on the fringe. Personally, I think that doing so would be bad for business. Detrimental to the game, if you will. Edited September 16, 2008 by sbell111

[+tozainamboku]

Some in this thread appear to be making the case that TPTB should somehow cater to those out on the fringe. Personally, I think that doing so would be bad for business. Detrimental to the game, if you will.

I think this is an unfair representation of TrailGator's position. What is clear to the majority of geocachers that are in the middle is that there are far more geocaches to find then they will ever find. Many of them are looking at ways to maximize the number of caches they perceive as fun and minimize the number of cache that the perceive as not fun that they spend their time searching for. They may fully realize that other people will want to find a different set of caches. They also understand that there are currently tools to help them do this. They can read cache descriptions and logs, they can share bookmark lists, they use the Gecoaching.com Google maps and look at satellite images, they can get PQs with various criteria that imperfectly eliminate caches they don't like, they can get PQs and use 3rd party tools like GSAK to find caches with longer than average logs or some other custom filter of their choice. But in spite of all the ways to help select caches, some feel that these tools are still too cumbersome or time consuming. These people rightfully ask TPTB to provide new filters to help select cache - recommended cache lists base on favorites bookmarks, affinity based rating systems, new attributes, etc. While each of these proposals has its upside and downside, I would not think it would be detrimental to the game for TPTB to consider implementing some of them. After all this will cater to that middle majority. Even those that want to look for numbers one day and go on long hikes another day will benefit if the can get a PnG PQ one time and tough terrain PQ then next. I think the people who complain the most are the ones who like to do urban/suburban caches and wish to eliminate just another lamppost hide or hides in alleys behind strip malls. They are looking for a filter on urban caches so they can find those 1/1 in a nice park or a public plaza. They might even like the one on the roof of the parking structure that has a great view. It is hard to select these caches given the current tools.

[+TrailGators]

Some in this thread appear to be making the case that TPTB should somehow cater to those out on the fringe. Personally, I think that doing so would be bad for business. Detrimental to the game, if you will.

I think this is an unfair representation of TrailGator's position. What is clear to the majority of geocachers that are in the middle is that there are far more geocaches to find then they will ever find. Many of them are looking at ways to maximize the number of caches they perceive as fun and minimize the number of cache that the perceive as not fun that they spend their time searching for. They may fully realize that other people will want to find a different set of caches. They also understand that there are currently tools to help them do this. They can read cache descriptions and logs, they can share bookmark lists, they use the Gecoaching.com Google maps and look at satellite images, they can get PQs with various criteria that imperfectly eliminate caches they don't like, they can get PQs and use 3rd party tools like GSAK to find caches with longer than average logs or some other custom filter of their choice. But in spite of all the ways to help select caches, some feel that these tools are still too cumbersome or time consuming. These people rightfully ask TPTB to provide new filters to help select cache - recommended cache lists base on favorites bookmarks, affinity based rating systems, new attributes, etc. While each of these proposals has its upside and downside, I would not think it would be detrimental to the game for TPTB to consider implementing some of them. After all this will cater to that middle majority. Even those that want to look for numbers one day and go on long hikes another day will benefit if the can get a PnG PQ one time and tough terrain PQ then next. I think the people who complain the most are the ones who like to do urban/suburban caches and wish to eliminate just another lamppost hide or hides in alleys behind strip malls. They are looking for a filter on urban caches so they can find those 1/1 in a nice park or a public plaza. They might even like the one on the roof of the parking structure that has a great view. It is hard to select these caches given the current tools.

Thanks for your support Toz. I'm happy to hear that you understand my position! I'm not here suggesting that we deprive anyone of anything. I'm just looking for more efficient and effective parsing tools. TPTB evidently agree with many of us and they said that they will be launching some new tools with V2 of the website. My opinion is that those new tools will be great for business. Does anyone have any idea when V2 of the website is going to be launched?

[Clan Riffster]

The only think that makes people 'angsty' are snide comments like that one...

And brussel sprouts. Let's not forget those!

I think this is an unfair representation of TrailGator's position.

True, but by now we're used to it. It's just how they roll, as Fizzy so eloquently pointed out.

[+Renegade Knight]

After watching this thread for a bit I have an observation.

 

Caches are gifts the same way the Posts in this thread are gifts.

 

Reading posts that annoy is your own danged fault. So is finding caches that annoy you.

 

If you can filter who's posts you read and enjoy, you too can filter for caches.

 

Just because the other poster is a complete moron who doesn't have an ounce of wit or wisdom doesn't mean you can't accord yourself wiht both. Ditto on your cache finds.

 

Enough blather, there are other threads to tackle.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+TrailGators]

After watching this thread for a bit I have an observation.

 

Caches are gifts the same way the Posts in this thread are gifts.

 

Reading posts that annoy is your own danged fault.

 

Why did I just read this? > <j/k RK

[+infiniteMPG]

ask yourself: is this location pleasant in any way? is this hide interesting in any way? if you can't answer "yes" to at least ONE of those questions, you might hesitate before thinking a handicapped person should settle for such a "gift".

A micro cache hidden off the side of the road with nothing "interesting" around where someone lost a loved one in a traffic accident.... lame? A nano cache hidden on a railing where someone met their spouse for the first time.... lame? A small cache placed near a tree where someone saw a bald eagle even though the eagle wasn't around when it was found.... lame? The interesting thing might be the story behind the cache and have nothing to do with the technique or the container, to some of us that in itself is interesting.

 

Things like "lameness" or "inspiration" or "interesting" are very subjective things. There was obviously some reason every cache was placed where and how it was. Maybe it's not obvious from the listing and maybe there was very little behind it at all, but to the person that placed it, it had a reason, even if just to feel proud to own a cache and be a part of the community. If someone thinks a cache could use improvement it would be better to be proactive and offer a suggestion, but no harm if the suggestion is ignored.

 

Other then that... filter-filter-filter. GC could use more filtering tools but if we had a finder rating system that someone could rate a hide when they enter their log, you could filter on that, too, rather then trying to decypher log listings. You can get a good feel for a hide from the opinions of those who found it. Could also be a good tool for owners to see how their hides are being perceived. A log stating "TFTH" but rating your hide high for creativity beats thinking they didn't like it because they didn't write a long log entry. Maybe they're at the airport rushing for a plane with no time to type.

[Clan Riffster]

Maybe they're at the airport rushing for a plane with no time to type.

That is why I promote the principle of taking pride in your hide. Creativity can be significantly hindered by looming deadlines, to include needing to hop on a plane. Assume for argument sake that the cache is hidden. You've got the coords in your Garmin, awaiting your pleasure. If being rushed impacts your ability to type something creative, is the airport lobby the best place to type up your cache page?

 

Naturally, this argument hinges upon the belief that, everything else being equal, a cache page with more than one sentence offers more pleasure to the average seeker than one without. I recognize that not everybody shares this belief, and as such, if you are one of those folks who don't appreciate a well thought out paragraph, (or even several), describing what is was about that particular guardrail that inspired you to slap on a hide-a-key, then please disregard. There are still plenty of film canisters & Altoids tins out there with verbiage to the effect of, "I hid a cash rite here just four you" that you can find.

 

It is probably nothing more than a reflection of my own admittedly biased aesthetics, but I've noticed a trend in those caches that I've enjoyed the most: The hider took the time to ensure every aspect of their hide, including the write up, was the best they could do.

[+Too Tall John]

ask yourself: is this location pleasant in any way? is this hide interesting in any way? if you can't answer "yes" to at least ONE of those questions, you might hesitate before thinking a handicapped person should settle for such a "gift".

A micro cache hidden off the side of the road with nothing "interesting" around where someone lost a loved one in a traffic accident.... lame? A nano cache hidden on a railing where someone met their spouse for the first time.... lame? A small cache placed near a tree where someone saw a bald eagle even though the eagle wasn't around when it was found.... lame? The interesting thing might be the story behind the cache and have nothing to do with the technique or the container, to some of us that in itself is interesting.

Then tell the story! If someone hides a cache like in you examples, don't you think they should mention the story behind it in the description?

 

A story told about one of the experiences you list would fit the second of Flask's criteria:

is this hide interesting in any way?

[+infiniteMPG]

If being rushed impacts your ability to type something creative, is the airport lobby the best place to type up your cache page?

The example was in someone who found the cache and is rushed in entering a log. Many owners (including me) look at the logs entered as a scale on our own hides. Seeing TFTH as all that is in a log entry is often perceived as a cache not worth entering more. With a rating system on the log page someone can enter TFTH but then rank the hide high for creativity, imagination, technique and location without having to compose a long log entry such as someone rushed at the airport entering a log before they leave. Yeah, people should take the time to write about their experience, but just as people don't all have equal skills in creating imaginative hides, some people don't have the skills to compose articulate and creative log entries (or cache listings for that matter).

 

I don't disagree that some caches could be hidden better and some locations could be better chosen. But I also don't disagree that some owners could hide and maintain more hides then they have, they could hide a wider variety (after all, we are hiding them for the geocaching community and not ourselves to find), they could maintain their caches more promptly, they could be more articulate in the listings and their log entries, but we don't live in a utopia of geocaching and things could always be better.

 

Do I wish every cache was a knock your socks off incredible location with dead-on coords, perfect working pen and plenty of log space to sign, an HTML listing page with pictures, stories and history of the location, a perfectly water-tight sealed container unaffected by the weather and impossible for cachers to not seal back properly, no muggle within sight any time of the day or night and an owner who responds to emails instantly and maintains the hide promptly when any issue arises? Ummmm.... no. I kind of like it the way it is and I believe most others do, too.

[Clan Riffster]

Do I wish every cache was a knock your socks off incredible location with dead-on coords, perfect working pen and plenty of log space to sign, an HTML listing page with pictures, stories and history of the location, a perfectly water-tight sealed container unaffected by the weather and impossible for cachers to not seal back properly, no muggle within sight any time of the day or night and an owner who responds to emails instantly and maintains the hide promptly when any issue arises? No.

I'm not sure why, but that reminds me of when I contemplated my first motorcycle purchase, a Kawasaki OHC 400. Someone told me that the only reason God made Kawasakis was so nerds wouldn't be riding Harleys. Ironically enough, my current motorcycle is a Kawasaki. Don't ask me how this is relevant, 'cuz I have no clue. That's just how my brain works sometimes.

 

My wish is far simpler than your hypothetical example:

I wish for those folks who hide caches to create the best hides they are capable of.

 

According to my beliefs:

An incredible location is better than a boring location.

Dead-on coords are better than bad coords.

A working pen is better than one that doesn't work.

A log with space for my signature is better than a full log.

A well thought out cache page, with pictures, stories and history of the location, is better than a single, misspelled sentence.

A water-tight container beats a leaky one.

An owner who responds to emails instantly and maintains the hide promptly beats an absentee owner.

 

Nothing in my belief structure should be interpreted as my thinking you, or anyone else, should share these beliefs. They are mine, and mine alone. If you prefer boring locations, bad coords, dead pens, full logs, single, misspelled sentence cache pages, leaky containers and absentee owners, your preferences are every bit as valid as mine.

[+TrailGators]

I kind of like it the way it is and I believe most others do, too.

Then you shouldn't mind if some of us ask for new cache filtering tools. You might not use them but many others will.

 

The next time you travel, you should try the locals favorite/must-do cache list for that area. If you have an above average day of caching then be sure to thank the folks that made that happen with some appreciative logs.

[+sbell111]

... These people rightfully ask TPTB to provide new filters to help select cache - recommended cache lists base on favorites bookmarks, affinity based rating systems, new attributes, etc. While each of these proposals has its upside and downside, I would not think it would be detrimental to the game for TPTB to consider implementing some of them. After all this will cater to that middle majority. Even those that want to look for numbers one day and go on long hikes another day will benefit if the can get a PnG PQ one time and tough terrain PQ then next. I think the people who complain the most are the ones who like to do urban/suburban caches and wish to eliminate just another lamppost hide or hides in alleys behind strip malls. They are looking for a filter on urban caches so they can find those 1/1 in a nice park or a public plaza. They might even like the one on the roof of the parking structure that has a great view. It is hard to select these caches given the current tools.

The problem is that some of these people are not advocating better search functions, which we all agree would be useful and great for the game. Some of these people are advocating for those caches that they don't enjoy to not be listed or for them to somehow be segregated from the rest of the game ala Waymarking. It is these suggestions that I take issue with.

 

I also bristle at Trailgator's apparent need to constantly paint caches that he dislikes and those who enjoy them with the ugliest brush he can lay his hands on. This behavior does a disservice to his well intentioned arguments and ALWAYS sidetracks the affected threads.

Edited September 17, 2008 by sbell111

[+TrailGators]

I also bristle at Trailgator's apparent need to constantly paint caches that he dislikes and those who enjoy them with the ugliest brush he can lay his hands on. This behavior does a disservice to his well intentioned arguments and ALWAYS sidetracks the affected threads.

I don't recall 'painting' anything with 'the ugliest brush I could lay my hands on.' Care to backup that statement with an actual quote from this thread? The only thing I did in this thread was laugh at a few funny things that flask wrote. Sorry dude but she says some funny stuff sometimes. You really need to lighten up. Edited September 17, 2008 by TrailGators

[+sbell111]

I also bristle at Trailgator's apparent need to constantly paint caches that he dislikes and those who enjoy them with the ugliest brush he can lay his hands on. This behavior does a disservice to his well intentioned arguments and ALWAYS sidetracks the affected threads.

I don't recall 'painting' anything with 'the ugliest brush I could lay my hands on.' Care to backup that statement with an actual quote from this thread? The only thing I did in this thread was laugh at a few funny things that flask wrote. Sorry dude but she says some funny stuff sometimes. You really need to lighten up.

I really don't feel like putting much work into this project, but a quick glance turned up posts 268, 287, and 295.

[+infiniteMPG]

elevant, 'cuz I have no clue. That's just how my brain works sometimes.

Actually I saw the relevancy of it... guess that's how my brain works.

 

My wish is far simpler than your hypothetical example:I wish for those folks who hide caches to create the best hides they are capable of.

In my post I was saying I didn't wish for those things as it would make the game kind of boring to me. I said I kind of like the game the way it is and I would rather think that people DO place caches to the best of their abilities, meaning the less-then-perfect caches are more an example of their abilities then an example of their lack of effort. No one is saying they like boring locations but I think the good locations far outweigh the boring ones or else we'd stop playing.

 

Kind of like the Harley example... if there were no other bikes allowed on the roads other then Harley's, then Harley's wouldn't be seen as anything special. And anyone wanting to stand out would would have to start riding a Trek or a Cannondale

 

I kind of like it the way it is and I believe most others do, too.

Then you shouldn't mind if some of us ask for new cache filtering tools. You might not use them but many others will.

Nooooo, I would like more filter methods and would like to see a cache rating system finders could fill out and be able to filter on that. I just don't think there needs to be any changes to try to mandate some quality standard for hides. Just as people can hide what they want, others can find what they want. Filters would just allow supply and demand to take over and self-regulate things.

[+TrailGators]

I also bristle at Trailgator's apparent need to constantly paint caches that he dislikes and those who enjoy them with the ugliest brush he can lay his hands on. This behavior does a disservice to his well intentioned arguments and ALWAYS sidetracks the affected threads.

I don't recall 'painting' anything with 'the ugliest brush I could lay my hands on.' Care to backup that statement with an actual quote from this thread? The only thing I did in this thread was laugh at a few funny things that flask wrote. Sorry dude but she says some funny stuff sometimes. You really need to lighten up.

I really don't feel like putting much work into this project, but a quick glance turned up posts 268, 287, and 295.

 

268:

Right on flask! Handicapped people deserve better! I honestly think if people could indicate that their cache is strictly "for the numbers" we would all be better off. It's a win-win! We could filter them out and they could filter for them.

Someone made the argument that handicapped people should be thrilled with parking lot caches. I agreed with flask that handicapped people also deserve creative caches. Just because they are easy doesn't mean they can't be creative. What is wrong with that? I also made a win-win suggestion that let's numbers cachers enjoy their caches and creative hunters enjoy the ones they prefer. What is wrong with that?

 

287:

TC, I sensed that your question would be asked soon, so I posted a possible solution:

I honestly think if people could indicate that their cache is strictly "for the numbers" we would all be better off. It's a win-win! We could filter them out and they could filter for them.

I really think the problem is that there is no clean way to split the numbers game from the creative cache hunting game. They are tangled up together in one big mess. As soon as there is a good way these threads will die down.

I don't how this is the ugly brush at all. Again I was asking for a way to filter out caches hidden for the numbers. I know people enjoy those but I don't. It is a pain for me to sift through urban caches these days.It is a mess for me. I've actually all but given up. How is that the 'ugliest brush?'

 

295:

I agree with you. Numbers cachers are the most adaptable because they seem to like anything. On the flip-side there are many people who don't enjoy just anything. It's easier to discuss the ends of the spectrum and how they contrast and affect the game. That is why I'm not discussing the middle although I know that it exists and may even be the largest group.

This was a complement for numbers cachers. I said they were the most adaptable. It is true. I wish I was the same way but I'm not.

 

I honestly think you are reading ugliness into everything I say and it is simply is not there.

Edited September 17, 2008 by TrailGators

[+sbell111]

I also bristle at Trailgator's apparent need to constantly paint caches that he dislikes and those who enjoy them with the ugliest brush he can lay his hands on. This behavior does a disservice to his well intentioned arguments and ALWAYS sidetracks the affected threads.

I don't recall 'painting' anything with 'the ugliest brush I could lay my hands on.' Care to backup that statement with an actual quote from this thread? The only thing I did in this thread was laugh at a few funny things that flask wrote. Sorry dude but she says some funny stuff sometimes. You really need to lighten up.

I really don't feel like putting much work into this project, but a quick glance turned up posts 268, 287, and 295.

 

268:

Right on flask! Handicapped people deserve better! I honestly think if people could indicate that their cache is strictly "for the numbers" we would all be better off. It's a win-win! We could filter them out and they could filter for them.

Someone made the argument that handicapped people should be thrilled with parking lot caches. I agreed with flask that handicapped people also deserve creative caches. Just because they are easy doesn't mean they can't be creative. What is wrong with that? I also made a win-win suggestion that let's numbers cachers enjoy their caches and creative hunters enjoy the ones they prefer. What is wrong with that?

 

287:

TC, I sensed that your question would be asked soon, so I posted a possible solution:

I honestly think if people could indicate that their cache is strictly "for the numbers" we would all be better off. It's a win-win! We could filter them out and they could filter for them.

I really think the problem is that there is no clean way to split the numbers game from the creative cache hunting game. They are tangled up together in one big mess. As soon as there is a good way these threads will die down.

I don't how this is the ugly brush at all. Again I was asking for a way to filter out caches hidden for the numbers. I know people enjoy those but I don't. It is a pain for me to sift through urban caches these days.It is a mess for me. I've actually all but given up. How is that the 'ugliest brush?'

 

295:

I agree with you. Numbers cachers are the most adaptable because they seem to like anything. On the flip-side there are many people who don't enjoy just anything. It's easier to discuss the ends of the spectrum and how they contrast and affect the game. That is why I'm not discussing the middle although I know that it exists and may even be the largest group.

This was a complement for numbers cachers. I said they were the most adaptable. It is true. I wish I was the same way but I'm not.

 

I honestly think you are reading ugliness into everything I say and it is simply is not there.

I think that you work from the assumption taht you don't do this and can't see it when you do. Read over your very last post and you might see what I'm talking about. Probably not, though.

 

Since I doubt that you will ever get my point or make an effort to change, I am done with this part of the conversation. Clearly, it's a waste of my time to continue to try to get you to understand my point of view.

Edited September 17, 2008 by sbell111

[+TrailGators]

Since I doubt that you will ever get my point or make an effort to change, I am done with this part of the conversation. Clearly, it's a waste of my time to continue to try to get you to understand my point of view.

Look I am a straight-talker. I am telling you my honest view of the game. My posts are there to communicate my honest views and not to dig on people. This game clearly has 'tons' of numbers hunters to quote iMPG and they enjoy doing it. They enjoy posting their numbers and hiding numbers caches. That's fine. I'm not trying to deprive them of anything. I'm also not going to try to figure out the politically correct way of referring to them, if that is what you mean. I just don't like lima beans. Does that insult people that grow lima beans? I just want a way to filter out Lima beans. Edited September 17, 2008 by TrailGators

[+tozainamboku]

Lima bean ice cream

[bogleman]

all of you need some Jesus in your lives - bunch of sinners

[+sbell111]

Since I doubt that you will ever get my point or make an effort to change, I am done with this part of the conversation. Clearly, it's a waste of my time to continue to try to get you to understand my point of view.

Look I am a straight-talker. I am telling you my honest view of the game. My posts are there to communicate my honest views and not to dig on people. This game clearly has 'tons' of numbers hunters to quote iMPG and they enjoy doing it. They enjoy posting their numbers and hiding numbers caches. That's fine. I'm not trying to deprive them of anything. I'm also not going to try to figure out the politically correct way of referring to them, if that is what you mean. I just don't like lima beans. Does that insult people that grow lima beans? I just want a way to filter out Lima beans.

I said good day.

 

 

Well, actually I didn't, but I am now.

 

(It should be noted that most people who are rude excuse it with some version of 'I call it as I see it'.)

Edited September 17, 2008 by sbell111

[+Snoogans]

Haven't caught up to the thread as I've been sitting in the dark and cleaning up in the aftermath of IKE for five days. BTW- I'm at work. The lights STILL ain't on at home. Momma's hot and sticky and when Momma ain't happy........... I'm glad to be at work.

 

Trust in Sam's Club and don't wait for frickin' FEMA to help is all I gotta say.

 

(This comment is not intended to be an OT tangent. I'm just checkin' in on the thread I started.)

 

(It should be noted that most people who are rude excuse it with some version of 'I call it as I see it'.)

 

Well, I guess you're right. I say I'm calling a spade a spade and sometimes those on the other side of the fence see it as rude and really, I don't give a flip how anyone sees it.

 

Tit for tat.....

[+TrailGators]

I say I'm calling a spade a spade and sometimes those on the other side of the fence see it as rude and really, I don't give a flip how anyone sees it. Tit for tat.....

I agree.

 

Glad to see that you're doing OK.

Edited September 18, 2008 by TrailGators

[Mr.Yuck]

Haven't caught up to the thread as I've been sitting in the dark and cleaning up in the aftermath of IKE for five days. BTW- I'm at work. The lights STILL ain't on at home. Momma's hot and sticky and when Momma ain't happy........... I'm glad to be at work.

 

Trust in Sam's Club and don't wait for frickin' FEMA to help is all I gotta say.

 

(This comment is not intended to be an OT tangent. I'm just checkin' in on the thread I started.)

 

 

Well, glad you're OK. My record is 8 days, 1 hour, and I forgot how many minutes, without power. But it was moderately cold out, not hot and sticky. Never did get the message and get that generator though.

[+flask]

hey, howdy!

 

i've just returned from an extended weekend and i gave much thought to the "uninspired" caches i came across.

 

the happy majority were lovely durable containers in acceptable locations with reasonably safe parking.

 

i was happy to find them, and happy someone had taken the time to hide them.

 

part of the trip, though, was through an area littered with guardrail caches with not much to recommend them beside the fact that they were about 600 feet from each other. there were some pretty views along some of the roads, but interestingly not at the caches.

 

if you like a thorough tour of every ditch in a rural town it was just the thing. so i got a rack of smilies but wondered why on earth someone would bring me to quite so many guardrails.

 

yay. another pill bottle in the end of a guardrail. no place to pull off the road. no landmark in particular. awful close to some guy's yard.

 

what on earth made these people think this was the essence of the sport? at some point along the way we were less amused by the caches and more amused by trying to figure out the motive for so many careless hides.

 

i'm not sure, but i think i'm going to write one cut-and-paste log for all of them, something like:

 

wow. this cache was my most favorite of all the caches we found today. we really enjoyed the walk in, and the location is beautiful.

 

i will paste this (or something like it) into each of the logs on those caches, including the ones we didn't find. i will have put more thought and effort into writing the log than it took to "hide" the cache. the hider should be grateful for my lovely gift to the community.

[+KBI]

yay. another pill bottle in the end of a guardrail. no place to pull off the road. no landmark in particular. awful close to some guy's yard.

 

what on earth made these people think this was the essence of the sport?

If there was no good place to pull off the road and no interesting landmark and you were uncomfortably close to somebody’s yard ... then what on earth were you doing there signing the log?

 

I'd have probably driven right on by without stopping – if I were caching by car, that is.

[+TrailGators]

yay. another pill bottle in the end of a guardrail. no place to pull off the road. no landmark in particular. awful close to some guy's yard.

 

what on earth made these people think this was the essence of the sport?

If there was no good place to pull off the road and no interesting landmark and you were uncomfortably close to somebody's yard ... then what on earth were you doing there signing the log?

 

I'd have probably driven right on by without stopping – if I were caching by car, that is.

I would have driven by too.

[+Snoogans]

what on earth made these people think this was the essence of the sport?

 

Lemme see... Hmmmm.... It says this on the gc.com home page"

 

"The basic idea is to locate hidden containers, called geocaches, outdoors and then share your experiences online."

 

at some point along the way we were less amused by the caches and more amused by trying to figure out the motive for so many careless hides.

 

Why tax a brain cell to wonder such imponderables? What difference will it make to the price of tea in China? Personally, I'd rather wonder whether penguins have knees or are lobsters ambidextrous?

 

i'm not sure, but i think i'm going to write one cut-and-paste log for all of them, something like:

 

wow. this cache was my most favorite of all the caches we found today. we really enjoyed the walk in, and the location is beautiful.

 

i will paste this (or something like it) into each of the logs on those caches, including the ones we didn't find. i will have put more thought and effort into writing the log than it took to "hide" the cache. the hider should be grateful for my lovely gift to the community.

 

Well, I'm sure you'll have a wonderful smarmy time of it. Way to enjoy cachin' your way. Isn't a smug sense of superiority an awesome gift to get from your cachin' exploits?

[+flask]

 

Well, I'm sure you'll have a wonderful smarmy time of it. Way to enjoy cachin' your way. Isn't a smug sense of superiority an awesome gift to get from your cachin' exploits?

 

well, i'm sure you've had a wonderful smarmy time with this. way to enjoy the forums your way. isn't your smug sense of superiority an awesome gift to get from your forum exploits?

[+Snoogans]

 

Well, I'm sure you'll have a wonderful smarmy time of it. Way to enjoy cachin' your way. Isn't a smug sense of superiority an awesome gift to get from your cachin' exploits?

 

well, i'm sure you've had a wonderful smarmy time with this. way to enjoy the forums your way. isn't your smug sense of superiority an awesome gift to get from your forum exploits?

 

i took a moment and properly appreciated the irony and then i hit post.

 

no superiority here. just plain 'ol button pushin'.

 

i concede to the higher intellect.

Edited September 18, 2008 by Snoogans

[Lickety-Split]

You can not please all the people all the time.

[+fizzymagic]

so i got a rack of smilies but wondered why on earth someone would bring me to quite so many guardrails.

Was there somebody holding a gun to your head forcing you to stop, retrieve the cache, and sign the log?

 

Me, I would have stopped at the nice views and ignored the caches.

[Trinity's Crew]

so i got a rack of smilies but wondered why on earth someone would bring me to quite so many guardrails.

Was there somebody holding a gun to your head forcing you to stop, retrieve the cache, and sign the log?

 

Me, I would have stopped at the nice views and ignored the caches.

If you skip the cache you can't complain about it.!

[Dinoprophet]

Lima bean ice cream

Soy bean ice cream is surprisingly yummy. I imagine lima bean wouldn't be much different.

[+flask]

 

Was there somebody holding a gun to your head forcing you to stop, retrieve the cache, and sign the log?

 

 

no, but once i was there i took the smilie for my trouble.

 

since there's no filter for "caches that suck", i don't always know before i get there. if i get there and it sucks, i take advantage of the only thing it has to offer: the smilie.

 

it's possible, too, for a guardrail cache to be interesting in some way and i prefer to hold judgement until i've seen the cache. once i've seen it and can make an evaluation based on the facts, i might as well sign the log.

 

 

no superiority here. just plain 'ol button pushin'.

 

 

uh, sure.

 

if you say so...

[+sbell111]

Was there somebody holding a gun to your head forcing you to stop, retrieve the cache, and sign the log?

no, but once i was there i took the smilie for my trouble.

 

since there's no filter for "caches that suck", i don't always know before i get there. if i get there and it sucks, i take advantage of the only thing it has to offer: the smilie.

 

it's possible, too, for a guardrail cache to be interesting in some way and i prefer to hold judgement until i've seen the cache. once i've seen it and can make an evaluation based on the facts, i might as well sign the log.

I'm surprised that you chose to fight through all the PI.

[+flask]

Was there somebody holding a gun to your head forcing you to stop, retrieve the cache, and sign the log?

no, but once i was there i took the smilie for my trouble.

 

since there's no filter for "caches that suck", i don't always know before i get there. if i get there and it sucks, i take advantage of the only thing it has to offer: the smilie.

 

it's possible, too, for a guardrail cache to be interesting in some way and i prefer to hold judgement until i've seen the cache. once i've seen it and can make an evaluation based on the facts, i might as well sign the log.

I'm surprised that you chose to fight through all the PI.

 

i didn't say i wouldn't do it, nor did i say that a cache sucks based on the presence of PI.

 

what i did say is that its presence can be one of the factors that makes a cache suck. string together enough of the unsatisfactory characteristics and you have a Cache That Shouldn't Have Been.

 

i have set the bar pretty low, so here's a list of things that contribute to to suckiness factor:

 

significant presence of poison plants

significant presence of garbage

container leaky or otherwise inappropriate for conditions

absence of proper labeling

logbook not suitable

no safe parking

location uninteresting, inappropriate or unpleasant

 

even several of these characteristics may not make a cache suck; they may be compensated for by something positive.

 

i'm not sure why you keep coming back to PI as a good way to poke holes in my argument; i only use it as an example because while the appropriateness of a container or its hiding place is partly subjective, the presence of a significant amount of lush guardrail-deep PI is not subjective and therefore for the purposes of this argument is a very good attribute to use.

 

i'm not particularly bothered by PI, but when i am at a cache that's a pill bottle with a piece of damp notebook paper for a log and there's no pull-off and nothing to see and there's garbage and PI, that's a trashe and it isn't worth the space it takes up.

 

i chose to use caches that have so many bad characteristics in order to put them far enough into the range of "sucky" in order to argue whether such caches really are gifts to the community and therefore also whether every cache should be viewed as a gift to the community.

 

nearly everyone can agree that if you have no way to get to the cache without significant PI exposure that it detracts from the overall desirability of the cache. PI is also a wonderful way to refute the "wheelchair cachers love lame caches" argument, because a wheelchair cacher has increased exposure not only to his body, but also on his chair, thereby putting him at increased risk of secondary exposure.

 

a good cache is worth PI or mud or bad roads; it's part of the challenge.

 

but you should still ask yourself "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this hide?" and "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this location?" and if you can't answer yes to either one, then PI and garbage are just the last nails in the coffin.

 

if there's nothing interesting in any way to recommend a cache, it might still be worth your time if there's at least an absence of unpleasant things.

 

i am looking forward to your next lame non-joke about the amount of poison ivy i encounter.

[+sbell111]

... but you should still ask yourself "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this hide?" and "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this location?" and if you can't answer yes to either one, then PI and garbage are just the last nails in the coffin. ...

Perhaps you just poked at the basic difference between us. When I think about my cache hunts, I ask myself 'Is there anything pleasing about this cache hunt?' and I pretty much always say 'YES!' because it did it's job, which is to remove me from life's angst for a few minutes. Those times that I have said 'NO!', it was because I had my head screwed on wrong and my little voice was telling me that I'd rather not be caching right then.

[+flask]

... but you should still ask yourself "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this hide?" and "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this location?" and if you can't answer yes to either one, then PI and garbage are just the last nails in the coffin. ...

Perhaps you just poked at the basic difference between us. When I think about my cache hunts, I ask myself 'Is there anything pleasing about this cache hunt?' and I pretty much always say 'YES!' because it did it's job, which is to remove me from life's angst for a few minutes. Those times that I have said 'NO!', it was because I had my head screwed on wrong and my little voice was telling me that I'd rather not be caching right then.

 

ok, so you have no standards and too much anxiety.

 

next!

[+sbell111]

... but you should still ask yourself "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this hide?" and "is there anything pleasing or interesting about this location?" and if you can't answer yes to either one, then PI and garbage are just the last nails in the coffin. ...

Perhaps you just poked at the basic difference between us. When I think about my cache hunts, I ask myself 'Is there anything pleasing about this cache hunt?' and I pretty much always say 'YES!' because it did it's job, which is to remove me from life's angst for a few minutes. Those times that I have said 'NO!', it was because I had my head screwed on wrong and my little voice was telling me that I'd rather not be caching right then.

ok, so you have no standards and too much anxiety.

 

next!

I have plenty of standards, I just don't impose them on caches freely placed by other voluntary participants in this game.

 

I do have too much anxiety in my 'real' life. I don't drag that angst into the game, however. BTW, is there a right amount of anxiety? Can a person have not enough anxiety? Can a responsible person ever have no anxiety? I believe that the answer to those questions is 'no'. Therefore, all responsible adults must have too much anxiety.

Edited September 18, 2008 by sbell111

[+TrailGators]

 

Well, I'm sure you'll have a wonderful smarmy time of it. Way to enjoy cachin' your way. Isn't a smug sense of superiority an awesome gift to get from your cachin' exploits?

 

well, i'm sure you've had a wonderful smarmy time with this. way to enjoy the forums your way. isn't your smug sense of superiority an awesome gift to get from your forum exploits?

 

i took a moment and properly appreciated the irony and then i hit post.

 

no superiority here. just plain 'ol button pushin'.

 

i concede to the higher intellect.

I don't see anything wrong with being confident and spunky. That applies to both you guys!

[+TrailGators]

so i got a rack of smilies but wondered why on earth someone would bring me to quite so many guardrails.

Was there somebody holding a gun to your head forcing you to stop, retrieve the cache, and sign the log?

 

Me, I would have stopped at the nice views and ignored the caches.

If you skip the cache you can't complain about it.!

Exactly! Life is good!

[+infiniteMPG]

Exactly! Life is good!

Says that on the back of my Jeepster And we drive right past a cache that looks like it's stuck on a bus stop seat, or off the side of the road with nothing around, or too near a crowded place or anywhere we don't think we'll enjoy. We're not into GC for the numbers and if somethings doesn't look like fun, we're gonna keep moving. No use in getting all bent out of shape over them and have them tarnish our fun, some people like 'em and there's plenty to go around.

 

Rose coloured glasses? Naw, just not sh*t coloured glasses....