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Colorado Barometer not recording data during Power Off


yogazoo
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I just looked on the OR to see if the unit recorded overnight tracklogs. It looks the same as the Colorado -- I don't see anything in the tracks logs from the time I shut it off to the time I turned it on in the morning. I'm pretty sure I'm getting good data. Image below for the 8 or so hours it was on overnight:

 

OR_alt.JPG

 

GO$Rs

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So, it looks like, concluding from GO$R's image, that the Oregon has the Barometer "Save Always" feature figured out. That's the dynamic data that the Colorado crowd doesn't get. Right? or am I reading this wrong?

Edited by yogazoo
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So, it looks like, concluding from GO$R's image, that the Oregon has the Barometer "Save Always" feature figured out. That's the dynamic data that the Colorado crowd doesn't get. Right? or am I reading this wrong?

 

I agree. So there is hope it will be fixed in the next CO firmware along with the tracks....

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Try "reseting" the elevation data... On my unit, it does not go away. The only way to get rid of the elevation data is to delete the track log......

 

That is just about a 100% proof that they are using the tracklog for the elevation data. The tracklog won't log without movement....

 

Agreed, this has been in the FAQ for a while.

 

But I double checked everything and I'm seeing that the OR generates the plot above. For those same times I don't see any tracklog points in the track log that get dumped into current.gpx (I read the gpx file directly off the unit in a text editor). I hunted around in temp and a few other places to see if there might be another gpx file someplace but if it is using tracklogs for the powered off pressure data its stashing someplace where I can't see it.

 

GO$Rs

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I've been playing with this more. What appears to be going on is that the data is saved in the tracklog. The tracklog won't record a point unless there is a GPS fix. This EXACT same problem was present in the 60Csx...

 

http://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=1245

Changes made from version 3.30 to 3.50:

 

* Improve track log recording for sensor products to continue recording sensor data even when GPS doesn't have a fix.

 

I always laugh when people say the 60csx is so bug free. When it came out, OMG, the bloody thing was a mess of broken features.

 

Interesting and it sort of makes sense. I wonder if the CO is left with a clear view of the sky whether it will gain lock fast enough to record a track point when it does wake up. I ran my CO and OR last night side by side and the OR seemed to work but the CO did not -- straight line from begin to end. I wonder if the HotFix allows it to get a lock faster than the CO so that it works properly.

 

This might explain why Michael is getting some points -- depending on where he left the GPS maybe on a few occasions it woke up and was able to get lock before going back to sleep.

 

GO$Rs

 

Its not a case of a few points. This one is working. I can pick any time during the graph and double check it with the local weather office and its the same reading they had. So its getting the right point every time it wakes up not just on some. we had a gradual rise then an increase just like it shows on my pics. Its off and saving now. The pressure is falling with a few spikes now. I will post tonight the next picture and I am sure it will show the same thing that the pressure actually did. This unit was returned and replaced because it did not save. This one is saving. I'm sorry you guys are not seeing the same thing on your end but this one is working. It has a good view of the sky its in a room with a vaulted ceiling so there is no attic to go through and I am at 5922 feet which is higher than most people. We never had the problems others have with lock in Denver.

Edited by Michael
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Micheal.... Please look again at your screen shots.... There are perfectly straight lines between points that are 18 hours and 12 hours apart.

 

This plot shows 48 hours of data and there are maybe 6 data points on there. You can clearly see where the unit was on for a period of time around 12 hours before the end of the log and then around 8 hours before that.

6df59b52-1d96-44b8-8f9b-20c38796916a.jpg

Edited by Red90
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I've got a Garmin recent Garmin replacement s/n 18z030nnn. What purpose other then confusion does the Unit ID number serve...or the s/n for that matter?

 

This pressue trending discussion is wierd because:

a.) the online PDF manual (in color) is dated October 2007 while the hard copy (in b/w) that came with the unit is dated March 2008.

b.) the p. 32 Altimeter Setup discussions are identical in both--why focus on the PDF manual? Did you "assume" it was morst recent?

c.) contrary to both manuals that mention a 15 minute interval and your discussion I am clearly measuring an 8 min. n-sec. interval. I'm willing to change "clearly measuring" to "I don't know". :)

d.) I've tried with the unit turned off but have been unable to see the screen flashing at all at any interval. I'll watch it again tonight when going asleep--if I can stay awake. :laughing:

 

Last night while the unit was turned off it started measuring a linear straight line from 11:04 PM to 7:14 AM this morning at an 8 min. n-sec. interval.

 

When the unit is ON the pressure trend line can and does change direction and degree of slope both before turning the unit OFF and after turning it back ON but while off it is one linear line. Can someone explain the sense in this? When you turn the unit ON again it recalculate the this linear trend line based on the ambient pressure when the unit was first turned OFF to when the unit was turned ON again? The only points of the line that are accurate then are the start and end points--this is the trend?

 

Lastly, although there is an option to reset Elevation Data when I Apply the reset it has had no affect on this elevation/altimeter/pressure trend data. ...Yet I have in the past seen this bar graph reset itself by some function I have done. How do you reset/clear the data? Clearing the Track Log and/or turning the Track Log off does not clear the Barometer/Ambient Pressure data either. Turning the pressure trending state to Power ON only and then turning the unit off does not clear this data either. Is there no way to clear this?

 

Although I find it hard to believe Tracking is tied into this problem I will test again.

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Maybe this will help explain.

 

The red circles show where the unit was on. Everything else is a straight line between data points. The first line is 18 hours long.

pressurelog.jpg

 

Ok I know what you are saying but maybe this one will show it better. The unit was turned off at 10:41 today and turned on again at 3:26.

 

75c6f25c-0e2e-4414-a249-43619fa16a54.jpg

Just before it was turned off from the last set of pictures.

 

 

b1a67935-0fd5-4c37-bbff-aabc413caa49.jpg

Just after it was turned on again. It was off the entire time between 10:41 am and 3:26 pm MDT.

 

It still shows what I am used to seeing when it saves. This one has more curves. Most of the time it looks like this. We had some really stable weather on the last shots. I did call the local weather office and they confirmed my reading on the one no one likes. Hopefully now that things are moving around weather-wise here this will help people believe.

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Thats it! There you go! That's the dynamic data the Colorado logs when the unit is ON. Try turning the unit off next time. We all know it records fine when its on. The issue here is when the unit is turned off. You can turn the satellite reception off from the satellite screen but that doesn't count as turning the unit off.

 

Maybe you have the only Colorado on the planet that records data while powered off. :laughing:

 

Others have insisted that their linear graphs were actually data that logged just fine too. Once they realized what they were looking at they've concured that the feature doesn't work. Not here, all of a sudden we get a dynamic graph a few hours later that claims to have been recorded while the power was off. Just seems kinda fishy to me after looking at your previous 18 hour linear line with NO VARIATION. Sorry, not buying it.

Edited by yogazoo
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OK, cool. Those definitely show it working. What is your firmware?

I'm running 2.60. Web update says I have the latest everything loaded.

 

___________________________________________________________________

 

In reply to the comment from someone else that it was on, it WAS off during the times I stated. As I said in my post " It was off the entire time between 10:41 am and 3:26 pm MDT." If people do not believe it was off that does not change the fact that it is working. As a Groundspeak Lackey I have nothing to gain by making up stuff. It was off.

 

Again I will state that I sent mine in because the save was not working. I got this one back with the claim that it did work on this one.

 

Its strange to have to defend that it is working.

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Its strange to have to defend that it is working.

What is strange is that you may be the only one posting that has working dynamic trending with the unit turned OFF. Couple that with some including myself maybe not understanding the problem/display correctly and Garmin maybe in denial that there is a problem and I'd just stick to your guns and wait for the dust to settle.

 

One thing I'm doing different in my second test is to have tracking turned on. I normally leave tracking turned off. But the unit is stationary. It will be very unreasonable (unacceptable) if the unit has to be moving in order for unit off trending to work.

 

Is your tracking turned on or off during this last test of yours?

Edited by Ratsneve
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One more question, Michael. On you last test, was it just on batteries, or was there external power?

An interesting question. I left my unit plugged into the external USB when I turned it Off. I'm assuming that when the unit is Off that external power if still plugged in is removed and that the unit is running on battery. I'm thinking this is true because when I unplug, as I just did with the unit still Off, neither the CO nor the PC registered that the cable was unplugged.

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Well, it looks like my unit is faulty. I replaced the batteries and played around with it for about 10 minutes before shutting off. In three hours, it hasn't recorded any readings yet. I verifed my settings and they are correct with "Save Always". There were no records when I shut it off, but that should be irrelevant if the Colorado is continuously taking readings.

 

Looks like I'll be calling Garmin next week. I'll have to share a novel concept with them as well: quality over quantity. Pumping out new models while shipping out garbage isn't exactly a great business philosophy and will only alienate current customers. Should I try to upgrade to an Oregon when I talk to them or try another one of Garmin's red-headed stepchildren? I do like the touch screen like on the nuvi.

Edited by ryguyMN
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Its strange to have to defend that it is working.

What is strange is that you may be the only one posting that has working dynamic trending with the unit turned OFF. Couple that with some including myself maybe not understanding the problem/display correctly and Garmin maybe in denial that there is a problem and I'd just stick to your guns and wait for the dust to settle.

 

One thing I'm doing different in my second test is to have tracking turned on. I normally leave tracking turned off. But the unit is stationary. It will be very unreasonable (unacceptable) if the unit has to be moving in order for unit off trending to work.

 

Is your tracking turned on or off during this last test of yours?

 

Tracking is off on my unit.

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S.O.B!!! :blink::blink::antenna:

 

Looks like I'll be calling Garmin on Monday morning as well. Can you believe, it will be unit #6 for me? Unreal, I'm either going to demand a credit or a new Oregon 400T. Figure $10 everytime I've shipped one back plus $10 each for a screen protector, Garmin has cost me alot of money for their poor quality product and I'm not going to settle for a unit that doesnt operate properly. :rolleyes:

 

Unit number six! UNREAL! :D

 

Lets run down the list of failures and this is naming only the problem the unit went back for, many had multiple issues.

 

1) Manufacturing residue under the screen cover.

2) Battery life was 2 hours MAX, recurrent crashing.

3) Unit crashed and wouldn't boot no matter what.

4) Barometer wouldn't log data when off.

5) Barometer wouldn't log data when off?

6) Hmmm

Edited by yogazoo
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I can guarantee it is a software bugs.

 

Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Michael is running the same firmware we are. His unit works, ours do not. Sounds more hardware-ish to me. How would that be a software bug?

 

My non-working unit is going back on Monday.

 

Michael, would you indulge us with the serial number on your unit? Maybe the newest batch has the presumed hardware issue fixed.

 

My non-working unit is 169055***

Edited by yogazoo
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I can guarantee it is a software bugs.

 

Maybe, but I'm not so sure. Michael is running the same firmware we are. His unit works, ours do not. Sounds more hardware-ish to me. How would that be a software bug?

 

My non-working unit is going back on Monday.

 

Michael, would you indulge us with the serial number on your unit? Maybe the newest batch has the presumed hardware issue fixed.

 

My non-working unit is 169055***

Model and s/n please. For instance... My current non-working unit is a 400t s/n 18Z030nnn. I think the 18Z is significant with the 400t at least. The 300's seem to have a different style or range of s/n.

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Colorado™ 400t 18z0050XX This is the replacement and the one I am currently using.

 

FYI we had an event today and I sent my 400T home with a friend to do the same tests on the pressure save. I will know in a few days if he can duplicate what I am doing. I Figured it was a good way to remove the human factor and see for sure that the unit is behaving as I say it is.

 

I did not tell him how I was doing it just what it should be doing. We will see.

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The ultimate test that would show graphically that the Colorado does not record barometric data when powered off would be:

 

Get a 60cs (not csx) and a Colorado. Set them to "Save Always", let them sit side by side overnight, and compare the barometer plots in the morning. The older 60CS's operated flawlessly in this respect, I owned one and was always impressed with the detailed (and variable) plots I would get in the morning. In the morning, after you run this test, you would see a straight line on the Colorado and a variable line on the 60CS. The 60 would actually log a data point and plot the actual pressure on the graph whereas the Colorado doesn't. The Colorado draws a linear line from the last known data point (when you turned it off) to the current data point when you power up.

 

If anyone could do this and post screen shots we could show everyone (most importantly Garmin) that the "Save Always" function does not work on the Colorado series. Unfortunately I don't own an old 60CS. But I do know a friend who does... Hmmmm.

 

Last night - Colorado:

colobaro2or3.pngcolorbaro1jv5.png

 

Last night - 60CS :

altim60cs1qs7.pngaltim60cs2sb9.pngaltim60cs3lg0.pngaltim60cs4wq9.png

 

last night - 60CSx :

altim60csx1ox2.pngaltim60csx2vv8.pngaltim60csx3ar1.png

I know, that 60CSx has no option of recording barometric pressure during power off, so I present only screenshots.

 

Before power off, I set the same altitude as calibration altidude.

 

Christopher

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Colorado™ 400t 18z0050XX This is the replacement and the one I am currently using.

 

FYI we had an event today and I sent my 400T home with a friend to do the same tests on the pressure save. I will know in a few days if he can duplicate what I am doing. I Figured it was a good way to remove the human factor and see for sure that the unit is behaving as I say it is.

 

I did not tell him how I was doing it just what it should be doing. We will see.

Wow, your s/n is much earlier then mine at 18Z030nnn. I've got a feeling that these s/n ranges are meaningless now and Garmin is just tossing whatever repaired units they can turn around back into the mix.

 

So far all my testing points to no dynamic trending on my unit when off--all I end up with is a straight line between dynamic barometric points drawn when the unit is turned on. In fact, the record looks identical to what I get when I have Pressure Trending set to Save When Power On instead of Save Always. If I didn't know any better (and I don't) I'd say that this Pressure Trending switch doesn't work at all on my unit.

Edited by Ratsneve
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I want to a 24 hour test with the unit both on and off at various times. I will post screen shots and mark the points when it is turned off and on. Before I do I have a few questions. If anyone knows the answers it would be a great help.

 

1. Does it matter if I'm in a house with central air?

2. Has anyone figured out how to reset the graph so I can start from scratch?

3. Should I be looking at the Ambient Pressure Plot or the Barameter Plot?

 

Thanks,

Rich

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1. Does it matter if I'm in a house with central air?

2. Has anyone figured out how to reset the graph so I can start from scratch?

3. Should I be looking at the Ambient Pressure Plot or the Barameter Plot?

 

Thanks,

Rich

IMHO,

1. This shouldn't matter if your air is recirculated from inside the house. If it is filtered from outside air then maybe there is a pressure differential that would affect. On the other hand... I don't think, considering what results you are looking for, it will matter in any case. The key to the test is to see dynamic pressure changes recorded when the unit is Off.

 

2. No, I don't think anyone can do this. It is an oversight that a software change might include in the list of things you can reset. But enough people have to tell Garmin to do it because they are otherwise likely to be oblivious to the need.

 

3. Either should work and record when Off. Try them both and see. If they both give you dynamic change when On they both should give you dynamic change when Off.

Edited by Ratsneve
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i was sending an email to garmin some days ago - but did not get any respone until now

 

did anybody else try to get an answer from garmin?

 

It would be helpful if the screenshots of the various barometer reading of the different units could be sent over too. The generic "fill in the blank fields" page to send to support wouldn't allow that however.

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i was sending an email to garmin some days ago - but did not get any respone until now

 

did anybody else try to get an answer from garmin?

Yes, I did, and here is Garmin's reply regarding the barometer isue, and my request for the Track Manager:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I will be happy to help

you with this.

 

This is a known issue, and hopefully it will be corrected by the next

update.

 

I will make sure to pass on the request for the track manager

information as well.

 

With Best Regards,

Garmin

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This is a known issue, and hopefully it will be corrected by the next

update.[/i]

 

Funny, I called them last thursday and a rookie tech asked me a bunch of irrelevant questions and then told me there is no known Barometer problem. Man, they need to get it together over there at Garmin.

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I seem to be having the issue as well, but I am confused if it's the supposed software/firmware issue or a hardware one.

 

When the unit is on, I still have a relatively linear plot when viewing the dynamic barometer or ambient pressue. Shouldn't this be somewhat staggered over time even when indoors?

 

The other issue appears to be directly related to the save always feature when the unit is off. The first time I tested this overnight, the plot was void of any information. I tried again on a subsequent evening and this time I noticed that the unit was powering on briefly as the screen flashed to obtain the data. However, the plot was unfortunately linear as noted previously.

 

I have no idea why sometimes if powers up briefly, and other times not. If it was at least recording the data when off, albeit incorectly so, I would simply wait for the firmware fix rather than assume a hardware failure. This is also my second unit after the first was crashing randomly and unable to keep accurate time when powered off.

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I seem to be having the issue as well, but I am confused if it's the supposed software/firmware issue or a hardware one.

I called and spoke to Garmin about a month ago about this issue which prompted them to set up a test with various makes of the units and various software versions. They called me back after a week and told me that their conclusion was that it was a hardware failure and my unit needed replacement. Recently however some people have been reporting that Garmin is saying its a software problem that can be fixed in a future update.

I called them after my "replecement" unit still didn't log data when off and they told me that there was no known issue. So far Garmin has been all over the map with this one. There is apparently one guy out there who has a working unit but the masses of others concur with the majority that the Colorado series does not record barometric data when powered off contrary to the claims in the users manual.

 

It sounds like you're definately experiencing this problem. Perhaps a call to Garmin will expedite a fix.

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When the unit is on, I still have a relatively linear plot when viewing the dynamic barometer or ambient pressue. Shouldn't this be somewhat staggered over time even when indoors?

 

That's correct. It should show something similar to the 60cs screenshots in this thread. Could it be something with the chipset that can be corrected via firmware?

Edited by ryguyMN
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My Colorado 400t records when powered off. Serial 18Z014xxx. I am running 2.6. I will take some screenshots tonight before I turn it off and then in the morning and post them tomorrow.

 

This would point toward a hardware issue? Some working, some not, same firmware/software. Garmin's going to have a boatload of returns if this indeed is a hardware problem.

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Just out of curiosity, is the Colorado supposed to plot dynamic data or show pressure trends? They are two entirely different methods of displaying the data. What is advertised and described in the Colorado Owner's Manual is 'pressure trending'...this indicates to me that I should not see dynamic data but a calculated trend line either steady, rising, or falling.

 

Looking at the Owner's manual for the 60Csx I notice that it refers to 'viewing the pressure plot' or, a record of changes in barometric pressure over time. This is different than viewing a pressure trend. So, if I'm correct this just highlights another difference between the Colorado and the 60Csx. Perhaps someone from Garmin could chime in and let us know.

 

On a side note, Garmin has this to say about the differences between Ambient and Barometric pressure:

 

Ambient pressure is a sensor reading from the unit. Normalized/barometer pressure is the unit's best estimate of locally reported sea-level pressure for your location. This estimated pressure does not compensate for humidity or temperature.

Edited by s20055
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Just out of curiosity, is the Colorado supposed to plot dynamic data or show pressure trends? They are two entirely different methods of displaying the data. What is advertised and described in the Colorado Owner's Manual is 'pressure trending'...this indicates to me that I should not see dynamic data but a calculated trend line either steady, rising, or falling.

 

Looking at the Owner's manual for the 60Csx I notice that it refers to 'viewing the pressure plot' or, a record of changes in barometric pressure over time. This is different than viewing a pressure trend. So, if I'm correct this just highlights another difference between the Colorado and the 60Csx. Perhaps someone from Garmin could chime in and let us know.

 

On a side note, Garmin has this to say about the differences between Ambient and Barometric pressure:

 

Ambient pressure is a sensor reading from the unit. Normalized/barometer pressure is the unit's best estimate of locally reported sea-level pressure for your location. This estimated pressure does not compensate for humidity or temperature.

 

I've been expecting Garmin to offer this explanation and it may be a valid one, but it doesn't satisfy all the grief for three reasons:

(1) The save-on plot is explained under the same "Pressure Trending" description as save-always/power-off, and the plotting is dynamic with poiwer on;

(2) the description in the book references readings every 15 minutes with save-always/power-off, but the plot does not indicate such; and

(3) trending does not explain the pressure drop to zero several poeple have recorded with save-always/power-off.

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Just out of curiosity, is the Colorado supposed to plot dynamic data or show pressure trends? They are two entirely different methods of displaying the data. What is advertised and described in the Colorado Owner's Manual is 'pressure trending'...this indicates to me that I should not see dynamic data but a calculated trend line either steady, rising, or falling.

 

The Colorado Manual says that it is supposed to record pressure data "every 15 minutes, even when power is off". The word "trending" is ambiguos but the words "every 15 minutes" are not.

 

Look, this feature worked flawlessly in the 60CS, Garmin knows exactly what "pressure trending when power off" means, as does the rest of the GPS community.

 

The 60CSX never had the ability to record data when powered off, the graph was simply blank during the time you had it off. The Colorado is different in that it is supposed to record the data when powered off. Currently, it essentially shows the same thing, the Colorado draws a line where the blank data was in the 60CSX. Heck, I could do this in my head with the old 60CSX and would you call it pressure trending? Would you call it recording every 15 minutes? NO, I wouldn't.

 

To answer your question, YES, the Colorado IS supposed to plot DYNAMIC pressure data, every 15 minutes, even when off.

As stated in the manual of course.

Edited by yogazoo
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My Colorado has failed me. The test last night proves to me, anyhow that the Colorado does not record data when powered off. Or at least it is not shown in the plots.

 

Screen captures taken at power off. Barometer plot first then Ambient.

7713.jpg7733.jpg

 

Screen captures taken this morning after an all nighter with the power off. Barometer plot first then Ambient.

169.jpg177.jpg

 

I am now saddened and disgusted.

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Personally, until I start seeing anyone other than Micheal show proof that this works, I'm would not bother.....

 

Unless you are a GS lackey and have special connections.....you are wasting your time.

 

Complain though....mass amounts of complaining to Garmin is the only way to get issues to the top of the engineering team's list.

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How many different versions of the Colorado firmware are there? The 15 minute while OFF recording probably does work on some of those older versions. But perhaps other things do not work on those older versions.

 

I would complain. Prhaps enough complaints will make Garmin listen. On the otherhand I think that Magellan does not listen to ANY complaints, and they have received many from many people about the WAAS issue.

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