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Lame First Hides


GPS-Hermit
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You get an invitation to a party, on that invitation it states there will be potato chips available in 4oz bags.

 

You prefer 8oz bags but go anyway, only to find they are generic - not brand name.

 

It was the size advertised, but maybe not up to your standards.

 

Do you complain or simply smile and say thank you?

 

A few weeks go by and you get yet another invitation, same deal...

 

You still prefer 8oz bags and decide not to go because of your experience last time.

 

Turns out this party had brand name chips and you're missing out.

 

 

Do you start going to these parties again and take your chances or skip them?

 

I don't skip any of them. Free chips is free chips. 'Nuff said.

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A young local kid found out about Geocaching and hid this cache... good spot, good container, nice log book, pretty area. but he wanted the coords about 150 feet off intentionally to make it "more fun". what do you think?

If I've read the page correctly, he used an Aquafina water bottle as the cache container? UV makes those brittle very kwickly, so I'd argue that the container was a poor choice. The deliberately inaccurate coords make my skin crawl. If I had been able to find it that far off, I'd assume he had some kind of coordinate format error, and offer advice to avoid that in the future. If I discovered that he did it on purpose, I'd probably not hunt any more of his caches.

 

On the plus side, I love the idea of a floating cache, and may steal it for myself. :laughing:

 

I don't skip any of them. Free chips is free chips. 'Nuff said.

Only if there's Guinness involved. :laughing:

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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :laughing:

 

I personally think a decoy cache would be a great cache for a first hider. I've found a couple of very funny ones! :laughing:

Again, you are drawing comparisons that aren't there.

 

The other thread asked specifically what we thought of decoy caches. The only way to answer the question is to give your personal feelings about them, which I did.

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I have tried MANY times to help the kid, including having a reviewer contact him with instructions. when I email him about it he takes it as a personal attack. It is a good cache. I want it published. I gave him my phone number to call me about it. I want to help him. he's logged on twice since October. I have tried everything but still to no avail. He does not geocache. Would you guys help too, please.

 

I guess I am off topic... its a great first cache... just a not so great hider.

Edited by redtj
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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :laughing:

 

I personally think a decoy cache would be a great cache for a first hider. I've found a couple of very funny ones! :laughing:

Again, you are drawing comparisons that aren't there.

 

The other thread asked specifically what we thought of decoy caches. The only way to answer the question is to give your personal feelings about them, which I did.

KBI and Mushtang jump all over us for using the "L" word. Let's see what they think now one of their own is using the "L" word to publicly criticize other people's caches.... Edited by TrailGators
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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :laughing:

 

I personally think a decoy cache would be a great cache for a first hider. I've found a couple of very funny ones! :laughing:

Again, you are drawing comparisons that aren't there.

 

The other thread asked specifically what we thought of decoy caches. The only way to answer the question is to give your personal feelings about them, which I did.

Apparently TG is still under the wrong impression that we, the SDOEL, actually love all caches and don't think any can be improved. I don't understand why, since we've said quite the opposite on several occasions, except perhaps that he can't argue with us unless he believes otherwise.

 

Some people also think we're against creativity, which boggles my mind. Funny how they can never point to a post where any of us said anything like that eh?

 

To those that are still confused....

 

There is a huge difference between defending a cache that a LOT of people enjoy against people that are saying it offers no value to the game, and having a desire to find that cache ourselves. I'd prefer (most of the time) to find a cache in the woods, or some other out of the way location, to yet another LPC. That doesn't mean that I don't think anyone else would enjoy them, and it doesn't mean I think they shouldn't exist. And I'm definitely not going to start a thread bashing them as lame and telling the hiders they're doing something wrong. That's just rude.

 

Just because a cache has little value to me, doesn't mean it has little value to everyone else, or to the game. If your sweet grandmother gave you a present that you didn't like would you thank her and move on, or would you stand up and start talking about how lame it is and how she should have put more thought into your gift before giving it to you? You might not have liked the toaster coozie she made, but she only gave it to you because when someone gave one to her she thought it was great.

 

However, if someone asks me for my opinion of LPCs I'll tell them (mostly I'd prefer something else, but they have their place and I've actually enjoyed some. They're great when I'm traveling on business and there's nothing else within walking distance of the hotel). If someone asks what I think about decoy caches, or caches with coords deliberately 150' off, etc., I'll tell them.

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Well if I went to a party, and the host started serving salsa in 35mm film cans, I'd make sure to let them know that

it's not my bag
. And if the host responded with
I believe that what you are wrong about is that you think everyone should use your metric as to what makes a successful salsa
and told me to enjoy the frozen burgers that were stored under the lampost cover across the street, I'd would probably respond by saying something like
Its not my metric but the metric of the partygoers
and point out that there were several people Complaining.

Next, I could imagine the host pointing out that several people were eating the salsa and burgers, and that it was a success (despite the fact that nobody seemed to be enthused about it) and tell me that I shouldn't try to ban the food. My next comment would be something like

nobody is talking about getting rid of any salsa or burgers
it's just not my bag
. I would then probably assume it was a part of an elaborate set up and hit the keg.

 

I would then try to enjoy myself, stay away from the salsa and burgers, and keep an eye on the host...

 

But if I went over to the kegs (which were not labeled clearly) and could not figure out which was Milwaukee's Best, Budweiser, or Yuengling, and someone told me to adjust my Party Queries....I'd probably get some ice cream and potato chips and go bowling.. :laughing:

Edited by 4wheelin_fool
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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :laughing:

 

I personally think a decoy cache would be a great cache for a first hider. I've found a couple of very funny ones! :laughing:

Again, you are drawing comparisons that aren't there.

 

The other thread asked specifically what we thought of decoy caches. The only way to answer the question is to give your personal feelings about them, which I did.

KBI and Mushtang jump all over us for using the "L" word. Let's see what they think now one of their own is using the "L" word to publicly criticize other people's caches....

It's how you use the L word, not that you use it at all. Read my previous post.

Link to comment
People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :laughing:

 

I personally think a decoy cache would be a great cache for a first hider. I've found a couple of very funny ones! :laughing:

Again, you are drawing comparisons that aren't there.

 

The other thread asked specifically what we thought of decoy caches. The only way to answer the question is to give your personal feelings about them, which I did.

KBI and Mushtang jump all over us for using the "L" word. Let's see what they think now one of their own is using the "L" word to publicly criticize other people's caches....

It's how you use the L word, not that you use it at all. Read my previous post.

You now are rationalizing. I agreed to quit using the "L" word a long time ago because you guys said it was derogatory and insulting. Now it's suddenly OK because one of the amigos used it... :laughing:
Link to comment
People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :laughing:

 

I personally think a decoy cache would be a great cache for a first hider. I've found a couple of very funny ones! :laughing:

Again, you are drawing comparisons that aren't there.

 

The other thread asked specifically what we thought of decoy caches. The only way to answer the question is to give your personal feelings about them, which I did.

KBI and Mushtang jump all over us for using the "L" word. Let's see what they think now one of their own is using the "L" word to publicly criticize other people's caches....

It's how you use the L word, not that you use it at all. Read my previous post.

You now are rationalizing. I agreed to quit using the "L" word a long time ago because you guys said it was derogatory and insulting. Now it's suddenly OK because one of the amigos used it... :laughing:

If you can't see the usage difference, I can't help you.
Link to comment
People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.
Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...
I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :laughing:

 

I personally think a decoy cache would be a great cache for a first hider. I've found a couple of very funny ones! :laughing:

Again, you are drawing comparisons that aren't there.

 

The other thread asked specifically what we thought of decoy caches. The only way to answer the question is to give your personal feelings about them, which I did.

KBI and Mushtang jump all over us for using the "L" word. Let's see what they think now one of their own is using the "L" word to publicly criticize other people's caches....
It's how you use the L word, not that you use it at all. Read my previous post.
You now are rationalizing. I agreed to quit using the "L" word a long time ago because you guys said it was derogatory and insulting. Now it's suddenly OK because one of the amigos used it... :laughing:
If you can't see the usage difference, I can't help you.
In an effort to get beyond this issue, I've altered my post in the other thread. I hope it pleases you. Edited by sbell111
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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.

So what do ya say about that?! :sad:

I say: My opinion on that statement is irrelevant to this thread.

 

I ask: What the heck does your question have to do with this thread?

 

Please go to the relevant thread and ask your question. If I see it, maybe I'll respond.

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Well if I went to a party, and the host started serving salsa in 35mm film cans, I'd make sure to let them know that
it's not my bag
. And if the host responded with
I believe that what you are wrong about is that you think everyone should use your metric as to what makes a successful salsa
and told me to enjoy the frozen burgers that were stored under the lampost cover across the street, I'd would probably respond by saying something like
Its not my metric but the metric of the partygoers
and point out that there were several people Complaining.....

Fallacy alert! Let's have a close look at this:

 

Many people in the forums have expressed a distaste for bland caches. This is a mere expression of opinion. That part of your analogy is accurate.

 

A subset of those gripers, however, have expressed a desire to see their caching preference imposed, in one way or another, upon other cachers. These attempts to inforce one's opinion on others go beyond the mere expression of opinion. That part of your analogy is also accurate. TrailGators didn't see this at first, but he now agrees with me that this is true.

 

The fallacy in your analogy occurs in the second step when you imply that someone has attempted to place every member of the second group into the first group. This has never happened.

 

I, for example, have clarified repeatedly that everyone is welcome to their opinion. I think some opinions are rude, of course, when stated in cetain company, but being rude is certainly the right of the opinion holder.

 

Where I draw the line is when anyone attempts to go beyond the mere expression of his opinion and seeks to actively impose his own arbitrary aesthetic preferences on others -- whether it be via proposed rule change, individual vigilante action, or any other active effort.

 

Your premise -- that the many who merely state their aesthetic caching preferences are being lumped together with the few who seek to enforce their aesthetic caching preferences on others -- is therefore false. Any resulting conclusion is therefore unsound.

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Is it not reasonable to conclude, then, that all those bland and easy cache hides you call "lame" are just as worthy, acceptable, valuable, and "successful" as the ones you happen to prefer?

Like always you mixed up several points together to try to get a pork-barrel filled bill past me. I'm vetoing this bill because I don't agree that an undercooked burger will be just as successful as a finely cooked burger at pleasing most people. If you have time, you can read the reviews of the fast-food restaurant as Sbell suggested to see what people really think about both restaurants! :D

Talk about mixing up points -- I never said anything about burgers, pork or restaurants. I only asked a simple and straightforward question.

 

Do you really find it so difficult to admit that other cachers' aesthetic preferences can be very different from yours, yet still allow them to enjoy the hobby just as much as you do? Or do you honestly believe your caching preferences are somehow superior to, or more valid than, the preferences of others?

 

It's an easy question. I'm still very curious. If it makes you uncomfortable to answer, however, feel free to continue dancing around it.

I'll separate the points for you:

 

Is it not reasonable to conclude, then, that all those bland and easy cache "ill-placed hides" you call "lame" (Putting words in my mouth again?)

 

are:

1) just as worthy Yes - only because they meet the guidelines

2) acceptable Yes - only because they meet the guidelines .....

Thank you for finally answering my question. That's really all I need.

 

Your answers, in fact, precisely match my own. Practicality (durability, legality, etc.-- all that guideline stuff) is what makes a cache universally worthy. Creativity, on the other hand, is too subjective to enforce, and one's own individual aesthetic opinion is therefore irrelevant when it comes to determining a cache's right to exist.

 

Based on your answers, then, you are obviously not a member of the group of complainers who seeks to control other people's gameplay, or to tell others what they should or should not be allowed to enjoy placing and finding, or to challenge a cache's very right to be listed on the website based purely on subjective personal criteria regarding any minimum entertainment value to which you may feel you are entitled.

 

You don't prefer bland caches yourself, but neither do you deny the rights of others to enjoy them. Very reasonable. :sad:

 

Welcome to the proud ranks of the Staunch Defenders of Everything Lame, TrailGators! :o

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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.

Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.

So what do ya say about that?! :sad:

I say: My opinion on that statement is irrelevant to this thread.

 

I ask: What the heck does your question have to do with this thread?

 

Please go to the relevant thread and ask your question. If I see it, maybe I'll respond.

 

When you decide to answer this and quit playing games then I'll be back. The bottom line is that you guys talk out of both sides of your mouths.... :D
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I'm going to get off the couch, take a step back in time and see what happens... maybe I won't disagree as much as I think I do.

 

1. There is some reason to hide it here. An interesting place.

Not a bad idea, but some areas just aren't interesting or all the interesting locations with history for example, are taken. Should that stop me from hiding a cache? Remember, if I own the cache I'm responsible for it's upkeep - I don't want to drive 50 miles to add a new log book.

2. There should be lots of places where it could be - not just one.

Matter of interpretation really. In an ideal environment, sure... but it's not always possible. Sometimes the location itself is the attractant.

3. The area should not be know for trash.

I like this one! Last thing I want is to go through garbage to find some swag!

4. The cache should be a water proof container

If open to the elements, definitely! However a cache is only as good as the person who left it last. No control there, but still... gotta do what you can.

5. Not Permanently over taken by muggles.

Or, if it is then it should be mentioned in the log so proper tactics can be used :sad:

6. Something Clever about it and is the result of some thought.

Ideally sure, but definitely not a deal breaker for a decent cache.

7. Hey you won't believe what this guy did or where is one is.

Irrelevant, not every cache is going to be ground breaking news to share with everyone you know... which is good, because it makes the ones that are just that much more special.

 

My question is - Are you finding alot of caches that are boring you to death and making you lose interest?

(I spend as much time weeding them out as I do caching).

Not at all! Even the ones that are easy (to me) on that particular day I still enjoy finding because, well... I found it! Who knows, on a different day with different mindset maybe I wouldn't have found it or it would have been more difficult. It could also be that the last person didn't put it back properly.

How do we get this game back to a treasure HUNT and 1st hiders and others to actually hide the cache ????.

We don't worry about it and hope everyone wants at least a 'good' cache in their name. We can't analyze it to death or it won't be fun for anyone. Not everybody has a month or even a week to plan a cache, but they still want to contribute to the community, I'm 100% fine with that!

 

There's where I stand on your initial post, make of it what you will.

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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.
Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...
I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :sad:
I say: My opinion on that statement is irrelevant to this thread.

 

I ask: What the heck does your question have to do with this thread?

 

Please go to the relevant thread and ask your question. If I see it, maybe I'll respond.

When you decide to answer this and quit playing games then I'll be back. The bottom line is that you guys talk out of both sides of your mouths.... :D
Why should KBI have to answer a question about my post? If there is something in a post of mine that concerns you, I would be glad to discuss it, preferably in the same thread in which the the post was made. Edited by sbell111
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I have tried MANY times to help the kid, including having a reviewer contact him with instructions. when I email him about it he takes it as a personal attack. ...

 

You strike me as a pretty blunt and in your face kind of person, at least via cache logs and written communications. Not everone can see that as a genuine and sincere offer to help and it can put someone on the defensive. BTDT-ALTTTT.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.
Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...
I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :D
I say: My opinion on that statement is irrelevant to this thread.

 

I ask: What the heck does your question have to do with this thread?

 

Please go to the relevant thread and ask your question. If I see it, maybe I'll respond.

When you decide to answer this and quit playing games then I'll be back. The bottom line is that you guys talk out of both sides of your mouths.... :sad:
Why should KBI have to answer a question about my post? If there is something in a post of mine that concerns you, I would be glad to discuss it, preferably in the same thread in which the the post was made.
Sorry dude but I'm not letting that fish off the hook. He stated something in this thread and I found an example of what he was talking about (which has now been edited out) and I want him to back up his talk.

 

P.S. Nothing is stopping you from addressing how what you wrote contradicts the position of the Defenders. Why are you asking me to ask you? If you have something to say then just say it...

 

Anyhow, this is another reason why first hiders need to think and plan their first hides. Even though people may not say what they really think, they are thinking it. :o

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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.
Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...
I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :D
I say: My opinion on that statement is irrelevant to this thread.

 

I ask: What the heck does your question have to do with this thread?

 

Please go to the relevant thread and ask your question. If I see it, maybe I'll respond.

When you decide to answer this and quit playing games then I'll be back. The bottom line is that you guys talk out of both sides of your mouths.... :sad:
Why should KBI have to answer a question about my post? If there is something in a post of mine that concerns you, I would be glad to discuss it, preferably in the same thread in which the the post was made.
Sorry dude but I'm not letting that fish off the hook. He stated something in this thread and I found an example of what he was talking about (which has now been edited out) and I want him to back up his talk.

 

P.S. Nothing is stopping you from addressing how what you wrote contradicts the position of the Defenders. Why are you asking me to ask you? If you have something to say then just say it...

 

Anyhow, this is another reason why first hiders need to think and plan their first hides. Even though people may not say what they really think, they are thinking it. :o

First of all, my post didn't contradict his, at all. My post answered a very specific question asked by the OP of the other thread. You are trying to twist it to make more of it than it is.

 

BTW, that thread is another perfect example of different people liking different things about caches and why a 'quick and dirty' ratings system would not work.

Edited by sbell111
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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

Edited by TrailGators
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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).
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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).

The "better" logs?

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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).

The "better" logs?

Logs that say how much fun each finder had versus a bunch of cut and paste or short logs that say "TNLNSL" , etc. I consider the longer happier type of logs to be better then the short nothing logs. When you read those kind of logs it puts a smile on your face to know that you really made someone's day. Really good logs don't happen all the time but when they do it makes it all worthwhile. I always try to write longer logs on the caches that were really fun as a way of showing my appreciation to that cache owner. Edited by TrailGators
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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).

The "better" logs?

Logs that say how much fun each finder had versus a bunch of cut and paste or short logs that say "TNLNSL" , etc. I consider the longer happier type of logs to be better then the short nothing logs. When you read those kind of logs it puts a smile on your face to know that you really made someone's day. Really good logs don't happen all the time but when they do it makes it all worthwhile. I always try to write longer logs on the caches that were really fun as a way of showing my appreciation to that cache owner.

 

I try and do the same thing as Trailgators. I usually try and type a paragraph or so of what happened. in fact, here's a log from a cache that i found a few weeks ago:

 

#55 an adventure is right. Red and i decide to bushwack from the final location of F is For Freedom. lots of thorns going that way and i even got stuck at one point and had to have Red cut the thorns from the back of my shirt, one thorn got stuck in my back. took five minutes to get me free from that predicament. good thing we were wearing pants, otherwise id have a similar problem later down under. we finally make it to the cache and looked all over, then saw the cache location and laughed. tnlnsl

 

I just don't like typing TNLNSL, i want the cache owner to know what i did, did i get hurt, how i found the cache, what i took, etc.

 

here's my cacheing partners log:

 

Found it, quite an adventure! Thanks!

 

you see what i mean?

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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).

The "better" logs?

Logs that say how much fun each finder had versus a bunch of cut and paste or short logs that say "TNLNSL" , etc. I consider the longer happier type of logs to be better then the short nothing logs. When you read those kind of logs it puts a smile on your face to know that you really made someone's day. Really good logs don't happen all the time but when they do it makes it all worthwhile. I always try to write longer logs on the caches that were really fun as a way of showing my appreciation to that cache owner.

Last night I did modify the GSAK LogLength macro to compute the median number of characters in the logs. I ran it against all active 1/1 cache that were found by me in my GSAK database. After about 35 minutes it came back with results :P . At first I thought you might have something as near the top of the lists were a lot of virtual caches which were at least in some "Wow" place. The cache that was in first place by far was a virtual at a 9/11 memorial that list all the Californians who were killed in the terrorists attacks. There are quite a few names - remember that all the planes were on their way to California. To log a find you have to write something about the next name on the list. Of course this results in longer logs. Then I filtered to just show the 1/1 physical caches of size micro. Now there was not all that much difference between the top of the list and the bottom. There also didn't appear to be any correlation between LPCs and log length. Near the top was one lame lampost cache that I found near the dumpster behind a supermarket. In this cache were strips of paper with a word on them. You were asked to take strip of paper and later use the word in your log. This seems to result in longer logs. Here's my log. Here's a longer one. I think he enjoyed the cache more than me :D

At the bottom of the list was a news rack hide. At first I couldn't recall anything about this hide so I figured it must have been lame. But a quick review of the logs reminded that the news rack was in a very unexpected location. Personally I wouldn't use either the median or average length of the logs since they don't appear to tell me much at all.

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Toz, what was the median log length of an LPC log versus a "must-do" cache log? That would give you an idea what kind of range to expect. If the median "must-do" cache log is 100 words and the median LPC log is 10 words then you would know that a cache with a median log length of 50 words has a higher likelihood of being more fun than an LPC. Of course there will be exceptions. I would this method would be fairly successful at detecting caches that achieved a significantly higher level of enjoyment from the average cacher.

Edited by TrailGators
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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).

The "better" logs?

Logs that say how much fun each finder had versus a bunch of cut and paste or short logs that say "TNLNSL" , etc. I consider the longer happier type of logs to be better then the short nothing logs. When you read those kind of logs it puts a smile on your face to know that you really made someone's day. Really good logs don't happen all the time but when they do it makes it all worthwhile. I always try to write longer logs on the caches that were really fun as a way of showing my appreciation to that cache owner.

 

I try and do the same thing as Trailgators. I usually try and type a paragraph or so of what happened. in fact, here's a log from a cache that i found a few weeks ago:

 

#55 an adventure is right. Red and i decide to bushwack from the final location of F is For Freedom. lots of thorns going that way and i even got stuck at one point and had to have Red cut the thorns from the back of my shirt, one thorn got stuck in my back. took five minutes to get me free from that predicament. good thing we were wearing pants, otherwise id have a similar problem later down under. we finally make it to the cache and looked all over, then saw the cache location and laughed. tnlnsl

 

I just don't like typing TNLNSL, i want the cache owner to know what i did, did i get hurt, how i found the cache, what i took, etc.

 

here's my cacheing partners log:

 

Found it, quite an adventure! Thanks!

 

you see what i mean?

It's nice to hear that you do that! I think most cache owner's really appreciate it when people do that! :P
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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).

The "better" logs?

Logs that say how much fun each finder had versus a bunch of cut and paste or short logs that say "TNLNSL" , etc. I consider the longer happier type of logs to be better then the short nothing logs. When you read those kind of logs it puts a smile on your face to know that you really made someone's day. Really good logs don't happen all the time but when they do it makes it all worthwhile. I always try to write longer logs on the caches that were really fun as a way of showing my appreciation to that cache owner.

 

I try and do the same thing as Trailgators. I usually try and type a paragraph or so of what happened. in fact, here's a log from a cache that i found a few weeks ago:

 

#55 an adventure is right. Red and i decide to bushwack from the final location of F is For Freedom. lots of thorns going that way and i even got stuck at one point and had to have Red cut the thorns from the back of my shirt, one thorn got stuck in my back. took five minutes to get me free from that predicament. good thing we were wearing pants, otherwise id have a similar problem later down under. we finally make it to the cache and looked all over, then saw the cache location and laughed. tnlnsl

 

I just don't like typing TNLNSL, i want the cache owner to know what i did, did i get hurt, how i found the cache, what i took, etc.

 

here's my cacheing partners log:

 

Found it, quite an adventure! Thanks!

 

you see what i mean?

It's nice to hear that you do that! I think most cache owner's really appreciate it when people do that! :P

 

they probably do. I only have 55 finds on me, and i've almost been doing that since i've started.

 

Here's my first log:

 

i was with Red on this one, but at the time i didn't have a name, so i didn't think i could post in here that i had found it. BTW, Red really didn't find the cache, I DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! me being a little overweight, stopped right next to the area (talk about Karma, huh?) that held the cache, and, thanks to my Boy Scout skills, saw that something was out of place in that spot (btw, me have no GPS, and we didn't have a compass). i can't call this my first official find, that would be the Kuhns one

Left a temp thingy and took a red truck SL

 

Here's my second:

 

was with Red here again, second unofficial find for me

TNLNSL, and i was the one to find it again

 

and my third:

 

again, i was with Red here, Red was literally on top of the cache but didn't see it. It took him a few minutes to see that he was, literally, standing on top of the cache when i had already found it. This was my third unofficial find and the sun was setting so we didn't go look for more on this day

TNLFSL, great hide

 

not all my logs are very long, and just a few are very short. Only once did i do the copy/paste thing, but that was only for the first part of the log. I even try to make my DNF's quite long. it all depends on what i did. I just hate seeing the copy/paste thing, even on the caches on my watchlist, it gets annoying after a while.

 

and i didn't get a GPS until after christmas of this year, so i went about 2 years of waiting for my caching partner to go cache

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I hope he doesn't find out that I also dislike micros hidden in shrubs. I'm not sure if he could handle the news.
This is really good info for first hiders. A lot of people seem to have this opinion even though many don't say it. So wouldn't it be wise if a first hider listened to some "consensus" feedback before placing their first cache? Is listening a bad thing?

 

Proverb: The reason God gave us two ears and one mouth is so that we could listen twice as much.

As long as you understand that there's plenty of people who like micros in shrubs just fine.

 

What you don't get is that I accept that these caches exist and have no problem with that fact. If someone chooses to hide one, I'm fine with it. I am not in the least bit interested in trying to talk them out of hiding a cache that they would enjoy finding.

As long as you understand that we have the freedom to recommend to people to check out which kinds of caches (within a particular category) get the better logs (on average).

The "better" logs?

Logs that say how much fun each finder had versus a bunch of cut and paste or short logs that say "TNLNSL" , etc. I consider the longer happier type of logs to be better then the short nothing logs. When you read those kind of logs it puts a smile on your face to know that you really made someone's day. Really good logs don't happen all the time but when they do it makes it all worthwhile. I always try to write longer logs on the caches that were really fun as a way of showing my appreciation to that cache owner.

 

I try and do the same thing as Trailgators. I usually try and type a paragraph or so of what happened. in fact, here's a log from a cache that i found a few weeks ago:

 

#55 an adventure is right. Red and i decide to bushwack from the final location of F is For Freedom. lots of thorns going that way and i even got stuck at one point and had to have Red cut the thorns from the back of my shirt, one thorn got stuck in my back. took five minutes to get me free from that predicament. good thing we were wearing pants, otherwise id have a similar problem later down under. we finally make it to the cache and looked all over, then saw the cache location and laughed. tnlnsl

 

I just don't like typing TNLNSL, i want the cache owner to know what i did, did i get hurt, how i found the cache, what i took, etc.

 

here's my cacheing partners log:

 

Found it, quite an adventure! Thanks!

 

you see what i mean?

It's nice to hear that you do that! I think most cache owner's really appreciate it when people do that! :P

 

they probably do. I only have 55 finds on me, and i've almost been doing that since i've started.

 

Here's my first log:

 

i was with Red on this one, but at the time i didn't have a name, so i didn't think i could post in here that i had found it. BTW, Red really didn't find the cache, I DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! me being a little overweight, stopped right next to the area (talk about Karma, huh?) that held the cache, and, thanks to my Boy Scout skills, saw that something was out of place in that spot (btw, me have no GPS, and we didn't have a compass). i can't call this my first official find, that would be the Kuhns one

Left a temp thingy and took a red truck SL

 

Here's my second:

 

was with Red here again, second unofficial find for me

TNLNSL, and i was the one to find it again

 

and my third:

 

again, i was with Red here, Red was literally on top of the cache but didn't see it. It took him a few minutes to see that he was, literally, standing on top of the cache when i had already found it. This was my third unofficial find and the sun was setting so we didn't go look for more on this day

TNLFSL, great hide

 

not all my logs are very long, and just a few are very short. Only once did i do the copy/paste thing, but that was only for the first part of the log. I even try to make my DNF's quite long. it all depends on what i did. I just hate seeing the copy/paste thing, even on the caches on my watchlist, it gets annoying after a while.

 

and i didn't get a GPS until after christmas of this year, so i went about 2 years of waiting for my caching partner to go cache

What was your log on your favorite cache? Have you done any local "must-do" caches?
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Well if I went to a party, and the host started serving salsa in 35mm film cans, I'd make sure to let them know that
it's not my bag
. And if the host responded with
I believe that what you are wrong about is that you think everyone should use your metric as to what makes a successful salsa
and told me to enjoy the frozen burgers that were stored under the lampost cover across the street, I'd would probably respond by saying something like
Its not my metric but the metric of the partygoers
and point out that there were several people Complaining.....

Fallacy alert! Let's have a close look at this:

 

Many people in the forums have expressed a distaste for bland caches. This is a mere expression of opinion. That part of your analogy is accurate.

 

A subset of those gripers, however, have expressed a desire to see their caching preference imposed, in one way or another, upon other cachers. These attempts to inforce one's opinion on others go beyond the mere expression of opinion. That part of your analogy is also accurate. TrailGators didn't see this at first, but he now agrees with me that this is true.

 

The fallacy in your analogy occurs in the second step when you imply that someone has attempted to place every member of the second group into the first group. This has never happened.

 

I, for example, have clarified repeatedly that everyone is welcome to their opinion. I think some opinions are rude, of course, when stated in cetain company, but being rude is certainly the right of the opinion holder.

 

Where I draw the line is when anyone attempts to go beyond the mere expression of his opinion and seeks to actively impose his own arbitrary aesthetic preferences on others -- whether it be via proposed rule change, individual vigilante action, or any other active effort.

 

Your premise -- that the many who merely state their aesthetic caching preferences are being lumped together with the few who seek to enforce their aesthetic caching preferences on others -- is therefore false. Any resulting conclusion is therefore unsound.

 

Well I happen to completely agree with the part in bold text. The part in italics is a little bit fuzzy, but I'll go along with you, as it appears that the premise of these debates is slightly changing. I like a good debate that tries to sway the opinion of the opponent, rather than to "win" and rub the other person's nose in their errors. :P

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Well if I went to a party, and the host started serving salsa in 35mm film cans, I'd make sure to let them know that
it's not my bag
. And if the host responded with
I believe that what you are wrong about is that you think everyone should use your metric as to what makes a successful salsa
and told me to enjoy the frozen burgers that were stored under the lampost cover across the street, I'd would probably respond by saying something like
Its not my metric but the metric of the partygoers
and point out that there were several people Complaining.....

Fallacy alert! Let's have a close look at this:

 

Many people in the forums have expressed a distaste for bland caches. This is a mere expression of opinion. That part of your analogy is accurate.

 

A subset of those gripers, however, have expressed a desire to see their caching preference imposed, in one way or another, upon other cachers. These attempts to inforce one's opinion on others go beyond the mere expression of opinion. That part of your analogy is also accurate. TrailGators didn't see this at first, but he now agrees with me that this is true.

 

The fallacy in your analogy occurs in the second step when you imply that someone has attempted to place every member of the second group into the first group. This has never happened.

 

I, for example, have clarified repeatedly that everyone is welcome to their opinion. I think some opinions are rude, of course, when stated in cetain company, but being rude is certainly the right of the opinion holder.

 

Where I draw the line is when anyone attempts to go beyond the mere expression of his opinion and seeks to actively impose his own arbitrary aesthetic preferences on others -- whether it be via proposed rule change, individual vigilante action, or any other active effort.

 

Your premise -- that the many who merely state their aesthetic caching preferences are being lumped together with the few who seek to enforce their aesthetic caching preferences on others -- is therefore false. Any resulting conclusion is therefore unsound.

 

Well I happen to completely agree with the part in bold text. The part in italics is a little bit fuzzy, but I'll go along with you, as it appears that the premise of these debates is slightly changing. I like a good debate that tries to sway the opinion of the opponent, rather than to "win" and rub the other person's nose in their errors. :P

I honestly can never figure out who he's talking about. I don't see anyone imposing or enforcing anything. I have never heard of any vigilante actions either, but this has the makings of a good movie. So pass me the popcorn and the ice cream! :D:D
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I don't think anyone wants to hide a lame cache as their first atttempt. Adding the plea to understand it's their first hide is just that--a plea for understanding. They are trying something for the first time. They want to do well and have their cache visited. They know they will have a more experienced audience, and they really don't want to get slammed for their first attempt.

 

I think most people do put thought and time into their first hide. I would guess most 1st timers are afraid they will mess up the coords or not rate the cache appropriately and that is what they are most concerned with when they ask for some mercy. They want positive feedback and they'd like to avoid an outright attack.

 

Hiding a really good cache is an art. There actually is a lot more to it than just sticking some container somewhere and clicking a button. Some people have a natural knack for doing it well, and others have to learn how to do it. Eventually some of us will learn that hiding them just isn't our strong suite and we'll leave that aspect of the game to others. And that, my friend, is the crux of the matter. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. It's a geocache. It doesn't matter if it isn't perfect from the start.

 

If a raw newbie near you places a hide that is less than stellar, why not befriend them, take them under your broad wing, and help them learn how to improve instead of alienating them? Join them for a cup of coffee at the next event and compliment them for the attempt. Ask them how they think it could have been improved (they'll often know already). Gently suggest one thing that you would have done differently if it were your cache. Take them aching with you and show them some of your favorites in the area. Explain to them why you like those hides.

Yeah! There now there is some constructive ideas on how to use the power of influence. Feed them ideas on what makes a GREAT cache regardless of it rating.

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So many times I see comments of the Cache Page that says something to the effect that - "This is my 1st hide - so don't expect much". Where is this attitude coming from and I am afraid it is spreading like poison among 1st hiders.

My advice is to wait until you think you have the perfect idea for a cache and not hide one until you can impress the hunters with something about the cache. It seems like some of the cache placement are token just to say "Yes I have hid one". I have seen so many caches - placed with obviously only one place to hide it. So easy or pointless in location.

 

I guess I would like to see caching done my way - self-fish of course!

1. There is some reason to hide it here. An interesting place.

2. There should be lots of places where it could be - not just one.

3. The area should not be know for trash.

4. The cache should be a water proof container

5. Not Permanently over taken by muggles.

6. Something Clever about it and is the result of some thought.

7. Hey you won't believe what this guy did or where is one is.

 

My question is - Are you finding alot of caches that are boring you to death and making you lose interest?

(I spend as much time weeding them out as I do caching).

How do we get this game back to a treasure HUNT and 1st hiders and others to actually hide the cache ????.

 

I agree with a lot of the quality issues here in principle but I have a few general comments.

 

Why do you think you see "don't expect too much this is my first hide" so much? I found putting out my first hide fairly intimidating for a lot of reasons. If you read the forums or cache pages for any length of time, you'll find a newbie hider getting lambasted for something. I'd say that is why you see that on new hiders caches sometimes, folks are a little gun shy because some folks aren't exactly gentle.

 

Secondly, hiding a cache is not an entirely intuitive process, there are certain things that you have to just do to understand them completely. I think that there a lot of finer points of putting out a cache are really only learned by experiencing them.

 

That said, I think that understanding and education go a long ways. Someone that is motivated to put their time, money, and energy towards hiding a cache is a gift. Consider it a seed that needs to be watered and cared for before you get a bloom. There's a way of trying to help someone understand what makes a long lasting and enjoyable hide without embarrassing them or trying to control them. But this education, IMO, should only be given knowing that not everyone enjoys the same type of cache.

 

Great comments on how to grow these folks!

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I like a good debate that tries to sway the opinion of the opponent, rather than to "win" and rub the other person's nose in their errors. :P

Cool. Same here. :D

 

I am far more interested in what is right than who is right. I hold some strong opinions, convictions, and principles, but in the past I have had my mind changed after listening to convincing arguments from others. I believe every point of view should be carefully considered on its own merits regardless of the source. TrailGators, for example, has convinced me to join him in some of his opinions during previous discussions – and I, apparently, have convinced him to agree that he is an SDoEL in this very thread.

 

Like you, I am not interested in "winning." I'm not even sure how one would declare a "winner" in a forum discussion. I am only interested in what is right. As long as I firmly believe it is me who is right, I will attempt to convince others. If I discover I have been wrong, then I will happily change my mind in the face of inarguable logic and reason. Like any good scientist, however, I will never consider the process to be complete. I will always be suspicious of my current understanding; I will compare it to any new data, arguments and viewpoints as they come in.

 

Who wants to go around being wrong if you don’t have to? If I am wrong, I want to be convinced I am wrong.

 

These debates are both fun and valuable.

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People who take it upon themselves to publicly criticize other people's caches need to keep in mind that hiders enjoy placing caches for a wide variety of different reasons, and that seekers enjoy seeking caches for a wide variety of different reasons as well.
Apply that you what your amigo just wrote today in another thread...
I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.
So what do ya say about that?! :D
I say: My opinion on that statement is irrelevant to this thread.

 

I ask: What the heck does your question have to do with this thread?

 

Please go to the relevant thread and ask your question. If I see it, maybe I'll respond.

When you decide to answer this and quit playing games then I'll be back. The bottom line is that you guys talk out of both sides of your mouths.... :P
Why should KBI have to answer a question about my post? If there is something in a post of mine that concerns you, I would be glad to discuss it, preferably in the same thread in which the the post was made.
Sorry dude but I'm not letting that fish off the hook. He stated something in this thread and I found an example of what he was talking about (which has now been edited out) and I want him to back up his talk.
I'm still waiting for an answer from KBI... Edited by TrailGators
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Where I draw the line is when anyone attempts to go beyond the mere expression of his opinion and seeks to actively impose his own arbitrary aesthetic preferences on others -- whether it be via proposed rule change, individual vigilante action, or any other active effort.

Well I happen to completely agree with the part in bold text.

I honestly can never figure out who he's talking about. I don't see anyone imposing or enforcing anything.

Oh, come on now. Don’t pull that stuff, TG. I already showed you, at your request, one of the most recent examples of someone wanting certain undesired caches to go away based on a personal preference – and you even responded by grudgingly agreeing with me.

 

Don’t start backpedalling on me now – we’re making progress! Remember? You’ve always been a friend, but now you are one of us "amigos!"

 

I have never heard of any vigilante actions either, but this has the makings of a good movie. So pass me the popcorn and the ice cream! :D:P

It doesn’t happen very often, but I have seen documented cases of cachers admitting having taken it upon themselves to physically remove another person’s cache because of something they personally did not like about it.

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I started this thread based on the 1st hider comments that asking others to consider not expecting too much -is another way of saying "I really didn't try very hard on this one and I am not that proud of it" "But at least I got one out there" - why the token attitude and why not impress yourself and others by waiting until you can be proud of what you did. "I just wanted to get one out there so I can say I have one out there". Yes there are different ways to play but that is no excuse for sleeping on the dance floor. "Play the game - Hide the cache - pick a GOOD place". Don't be snoring in the middle of my movie!

I believe that you are reading too much into these comments. Way too much.

You may be 100% correct! I haven't heard from the people who have said "don't expect much" - just theories on it. It could even be, just what I wanted in the 1st place - admission that maybe I am falling short of what I could and I will great better after my first hide. What do you think it means.

Edited by GPS-Hermit
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I'm still waiting for an answer from KBI...

To what? Tell me exactly what it is you want to know. You finally did be the honor of honestly answering my question; I will be happy to return the favor. :P

What do you think about this:

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.

 

 

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I started this thread based on the 1st hider comments that asking others to consider not expecting too much -is another way of saying "I really didn't try very hard on this one and I am not that proud of it" "But at least I got one out there" - why the token attitude and why not impress yourself and others by waiting until you can be proud of what you did. "I just wanted to get one out there so I can say I have one out there". Yes there are different ways to play but that is no excuse for sleeping on the dance floor. "Play the game - Hide the cache - pick a GOOD place". Don't be snoring in the middle of my movie!

I believe that you are reading too much into these comments. Way too much.

You may be 100% correct! I haven't heard from the people who have said "don't expect much" - just theories on it. It could even be, just what I wanted in the 1st place - admission that maybe I am falling short of what I could and I will great better after my first hide. Wht do you think it means.

Many newbies are naturally insecure about their efforts when jumping into something new. It is normal to ask things like "how am I doing?" and make statements like "this is only my first attempt, so be gentle / don’t expect too much / let me know if it’s okay."

 

I have seen dozens of similar comments in cache descriptions. It never occurred to me to interpret them as any indication that the hider truly believed his cache hide sucked. I tend to believe instead that such comments are an attempt to be polite; the hider is saying "Hey, I’m not trying to tell the experienced cacher hiders that I’m one of them already. I’m still learning, but I want to participate also!"

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I'm still waiting for an answer from KBI...

To what? Tell me exactly what it is you want to know. You finally did be the honor of honestly answering my question; I will be happy to return the favor. :P

What do you think about this:

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.

I have two reactions:

 

(1) I don't agree with Sbell's opinion.

 

I don’t have a problem with his opinion, of course – it represents nothing more than an individual preference, and I am fully aware that each cacher’s set of personal aesthetic preferences is unique – but neither do I agree with him that decoys are lame. I happen to think they are fun, in fact. One of my all-time favorite caches consisted of a series of four decoys, all within ten feet of the actual cache, and each one less obvious than the last.

 

(2) As I said before, I think your question is waaaaaaaay off topic.

 

I have no idea where you are going with this, but I strongly suggest you link whatever it is to the topic of this thread, and that you do so very soon – or you are likely to get yet another good thread locked down.

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I'm still waiting for an answer from KBI...

To what? Tell me exactly what it is you want to know. You finally did be the honor of honestly answering my question; I will be happy to return the favor. :P

What do you think about this:

I think decoys are kinda lame. After all, if I look in a spot and the cache is not there, I don't require a decoy in the spot to tell me that the cache isn't there.

I have two reactions:

 

(1) I don't agree with Sbell's opinion.

 

I don't have a problem with his opinion, of course – it represents nothing more than an individual preference, and I am fully aware that each cacher's set of personal aesthetic preferences is unique – but neither do I agree with him that decoys are lame. I happen to think they are fun, in fact. One of my all-time favorite caches consisted of a series of four decoys, all within ten feet of the actual cache, and each one less obvious than the last.

 

(2) As I said before, I think your question is waaaaaaaay off topic.

 

I have no idea where you are going with this, but I strongly suggest you link whatever it is to the topic of this thread, and that you do so very soon – or you are likely to get yet another good thread locked down.

It's not off-topic. In fact, if you can talk about vigilantes, it's way inside that fence... :D

 

The point was that one of your own uttered the word that the defenders dare not speak. B)

skywalk343d.jpg

So Sbell felt the "Force" for a brief moment in time (I don't like the name complainers).

 

May the Force be with you! :D

Edited by TrailGators
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