The Northwest Trails Project

9.5k · November 23, 2011

I don't do any of the conversions. Moun10bike does it all. I merely provide the pointer for the DeLorme version of the trail set. If M10B is willing to convert the snowtrails as well (considering there is an expressed interest now), I'll be more than happy to provide another button to point at it.

November 23, 2011

I don't do any of the conversions. Moun10bike does it all. I merely provide the pointer for the DeLorme version of the trail set. If M10B is willing to convert the snowtrails as well (considering there is an expressed interest now), I'll be more than happy to provide another button to point at it.

Thanks for the quick response. We'll see what he says. If it's possible, then I would also gladly help contribute new tracks for the database(mostly in Oregon, but also in nor-cal and possibly WA).

9.5k · November 23, 2011

No problem! Track contributions are always welcome throught the data submission page that M10B set up on www.switchbacks.com.

http://www.switchbacks.com/upload/default.aspx

7.4k · December 17, 2011

Northwest Trails v1.71 and Northwest Topos v0.18 are now ready for download. Details are available on the blog.

9.5k · December 18, 2011

The DeLorme link is updated on my site.

http://www.wix.com/totemlake/hotm

January 9, 2012

Hey everyone,

First off, this is an awesome resource, so thanks to all for the work involved in putting it together.

I'm new to loading custom maps and such on a GPS. I just replaced my old 76s with a 62sc.

I've managed to get a topo map on the unit. It was from GPSFileDepot.com, but now I see there is a NW Topo option as well. In any case.. I also downloaded and installed the NW Trails. I seem to be stumbling with getting the trails to overlay on to the unit. I did read through the 11 pages here, but after a few pages my eyes started to get lazy, so maybe this is in here somewhere and I just didn't see it. I did read I can't get the overlay to happen in Basecamp, which is fine.

Is there an idiot guide to getting the maps to overlay together on the GPS?

thanks

7.4k · January 9, 2012

When you upload maps to a Garmin unit, they are always saved with the same default name of gmapsupp.img. For that reason, you either need to rename the file after you've uploaded a given set of tiles (something that is not possible on older units), or select all of the tiles you want from the different mapsets and upload them all at once.

You can get Northwest Trails to overlay the other maps on your GPS by using either of these two processes. It is what is considered a "transparent" mapset and will by default display on top of other mapsets but allow them to show through beneath.

January 9, 2012

ok, so, if I have three maps loaded on to the unit, each named three different things, they will all mash together and be displayed as one?

7.4k · January 9, 2012

Correct, provided that they do not conflict with one another. For example, you will only see the non-transparent mapset with the higher priority if you upload more than one non-transparent mapset at a time - e.g. the Garmin street maps will display over topo maps. However, the Garmin receiver gives you the optioon to turn off and on individual mapsets in these situations.

January 9, 2012

Cool. I'll play around with it some more and see how it goes.

Thank you

January 10, 2012

Correct, provided that they do not conflict with one another. For example, you will only see the non-transparent mapset with the higher priority if you upload more than one non-transparent mapset at a time - e.g. the Garmin street maps will display over topo maps. However, the Garmin receiver gives you the optioon to turn off and on individual mapsets in these situations.

Wanted to add some tips and clarifications that have helped me to understand mapsets (some assumptions are made, Jon may have to correct):

Most maps are not transparent (as most maps are 'inclusive' so to speak, in that they don't need other maps to 'help' them). NW Trails is a transparent map and it uses your other map choice under to help it, to give context to the location of lines that are trails and roads. That is the main (only?) reason why Jon shows only trails and also roads which not shown on other maps. That and there is no need for him to do the massive amount of work necessary to create and manage those maps
I believe that NW Topos is simply NW Trails integrated with a topo map; if you already have a topo map you can use that and NW Trails over it with with no direct need to also have NW Topos installed. Personally, I don't even have NW Trails loaded choosing to use only NW Topos both in the wild and in the city. On the other hand, using NW Trails allows for the use of multiple different base (underlying) map files, for example a topo, a marine, a city/streets map, etc. Or you could choose to use different base topo maps at different times. I personally probably have a dozen maps installed on my GPSr though I rarely use any but NW Topo
Mapset priority and transparency is not something used in Garmin's BaseCamp or the older MapSource rather you can select only one map at a time. These concepts apply only within the GPSr itself
I believe that the GPSr will go through the work of displaying a mapset even if it is covered by a higher priority map which can significantly slow things down. So if you have more than one non-transparent mapset it is wise to turn off all the lower priority map sets in order to have the GPSr redraw the display much faster
As far as I can tell, there is no direct and quick way, and sometimes no direct way at all, to tell the priority of a given mapset. It must be determined by trial and error. For example, will NW Topo or Garmin Topo have priority? I don't know the answer...

5.6k · January 10, 2012

One advantage to having both NW Trails and NW Topo loaded (along with other mapsets) is that when, say, City Navigator is showing you can see the trails. With only NW Topo you will see the trails only when it is showing, and it's not a autoroutable mapset so if you use that function you'll need the Garmin maps showing.

I'm kind of opposite of Shaddow, I have NW Topo loaded but only have it visible when I want to see the terrain. Mostly I use City Nav and NW Trails.

January 10, 2012

One advantage to having both NW Trails and NW Topo loaded (along with other mapsets) is that when, say, City Navigator is showing you can see the trails. With only NW Topo you will see the trails only when it is showing, and it's not a autoroutable mapset so if you use that function you'll need the Garmin maps showing.

I'm kind of opposite of Shaddow, I have NW Topo loaded but only have it visible when I want to see the terrain. Mostly I use City Nav and NW Trails.

The Jester makes a good point about the autoroute and different usage styles.

I used to do the same but now instead of using Garmin's City Navigator I use a free open source autorouting mapset which is a lot cheaper than $100 for Garmin's and I'm able to autoroute while using NW Topos, best of both worlds for me. That's a more advanced discussion and not maybe not fully germane; I'd be happy to discuss in detail if anyone wanted but might be best to discuss in another topic, depending perhaps on Jon's preferences.

January 11, 2012

just playing around with the unit, trying to understand how it works. I just removed everything that was on the 62sc and then loaded the NW Topo. It gives me streets, trails, and topo.

I've got a SD card in the unit, so when I loaded the NW Topo, it saved the file to that instead of main system storage.

The default img file that came with the unit is "gmapbmap.img"

The default img file that saved to the SD card when I selected to save NW Topo to the unit is "gmapsupp.img"

So, it seems with the two files together, everything works as expected. I can see streets, topo, and trails, for here in the NW. I can also see streets all over the U.S., just no topo or trails. Works perfectly.

The gmapbmap.img, that came with the unit, is called "Worldwide Autoroute DEM BAsemap, NR" when I open it in BaseCamp. Sounds like an autoroute map, but I couldn't figure out how to have the unit give me street by street directions (manual didn't indicate either). Maybe the 62 doesn't do this?

Shadow - I would be interested in finding out what autorouting product you are using.... or if it even an option with my 62

I realize we are getting a bit off topic. I appreciate all the input regarding the maps. This info gave me enough to feel comfortable with playing with the files and seeing how things work, so thanks for that.

Edited January 11, 2012 by bradwwood

January 11, 2012

This may have been talked about earlier in this thread, but I didnt want to have to read everything. There has been talk about the transparency of NW trails on the units themself, which I can see on my 60CSx. My question is whether or not there is something that can be done with Mapsource so that both CN and NW trails can both show at the same time. If not Mapsource, are there other map programs that will allow both to be seen overlaying each other?

Thanks

January 11, 2012

This may have been talked about earlier in this thread, but I didnt want to have to read everything. There has been talk about the transparency of NW trails on the units themself, which I can see on my 60CSx. My question is whether or not there is something that can be done with Mapsource so that both CN and NW trails can both show at the same time. If not Mapsource, are there other map programs that will allow both to be seen overlaying each other?

Thanks

In short and unfortunately: no and no

While it is possible to use other software to combine NW Trails with other maps into one that MS can 'see,' the CN is a locked mapset and I don't believe that it's possible to view CN in other software without hacking.

January 11, 2012

While it is possible to use other software to combine NW Trails with other maps into one that MS can 'see,' the CN is a locked mapset and I don't believe that it's possible to view CN in other software without hacking.

I just had a thought

The Jester makes a good point about the autoroute and different usage styles.

I used to do the same but now instead of using Garmin's City Navigator I use a free open source autorouting mapset which is a lot cheaper than $100 for Garmin's and I'm able to autoroute while using NW Topos, best of both worlds for me. That's a more advanced discussion and not maybe not fully germane; I'd be happy to discuss in detail if anyone wanted but might be best to discuss in another topic, depending perhaps on Jon's preferences.

(Starting to be on/off-topic, but related as it involves NWT).

Plenty of folks would like to be able to see both roads and trails in Mapsource on the PC when they are using it for planning/etc. Today you can see either a road set, a trail set, a topo set, or a combined topo/trail set using one of various map sets available.

Would it be possible (primarily constrained I would think by usage licenses and production effort) to combine an open-source road-map with NWT so we could see everything at a glance? I don't want to create a proliferation of overlapping sets, but that would be one I would use in MS a lot...

January 11, 2012

just playing around with the unit, trying to understand how it works. I just removed everything that was on the 62sc and then loaded the NW Topo. It gives me streets, trails, and topo.

I've got a SD card in the unit, so when I loaded the NW Topo, it saved the file to that instead of main system storage.

The default img file that came with the unit is "gmapbmap.img"

The default img file that saved to the SD card when I selected to save NW Topo to the unit is "gmapsupp.img"

So, it seems with the two files together, everything works as expected. I can see streets, topo, and trails, for here in the NW. I can also see streets all over the U.S., just no topo or trails. Works perfectly.

The gmapbmap.img, that came with the unit, is called "Worldwide Autoroute DEM BAsemap, NR" when I open it in BaseCamp. Sounds like an autoroute map, but I couldn't figure out how to have the unit give me street by street directions (manual didn't indicate either). Maybe the 62 doesn't do this?

Shadow - I would be interested in finding out what autorouting product you are using.... or if it even an option with my 62

I realize we are getting a bit off topic. I appreciate all the input regarding the maps. This info gave me enough to feel comfortable with playing with the files and seeing how things work, so thanks for that.

Ok, to start let me say that I have the older 60CSx and yours, the 62sc, though it looks very similar and is also the next generation of the 60 series, it's very different with many advance features including modifiable and large internal memory. I really don't know much about the 62sc having never used one. Though I did have a eTrex Vista HCx so am generally familiar with Garmin's GPSrs. So what I'm going to say below is knowledge mixed with some educated guessing...

I believe that Garmin uses the file name system this way: Garmin-Map-Mapname with Garmin shorten to 'g' therefore gmap[map name].img where img is the file type

The map gmapbmap.img is your basemap and it's stored internally. On my 60 it is not meant to be modifiable but on your 62 it can be easily updated

Then gmapsupp.img is probably Garmin Map supplemental. Why it's stored on your chip rather than your internal memory, I don't know if that is by design or by a choice during install. On my 60 it's always on the chip.

The 62 should be able to give you street by street, both my 60 and eTrex can do it. The user interface will work differently then a GPSr dedicated to car navigation, by design. Probably the simplest way to use it is to pick a waypoint and hit 'go to' or similar. If you are not presented with the choice of directions or direct, you have the GPSr set to default to direct. You will need to enter your settings to change that.

I would like to post info about it and even a link, just not sure if it's acceptable here (I believe that Garmin and GS have business agreements or at least 'understandings'). What I will do than is post the info in a separate post so it can be easily deleted by the PTB if need and without losing unrelated info.

So far Moun10Bike has been quiet, my experience has been that his silence is acceptance and that if we get too far off subject he'll let us know, I think we're ok for now

January 11, 2012

While it is possible to use other software to combine NW Trails with other maps into one that MS can 'see,' the CN is a locked mapset and I don't believe that it's possible to view CN in other software without hacking.

I just had a thought

The Jester makes a good point about the autoroute and different usage styles.

I used to do the same but now instead of using Garmin's City Navigator I use a free open source autorouting mapset which is a lot cheaper than $100 for Garmin's and I'm able to autoroute while using NW Topos, best of both worlds for me. That's a more advanced discussion and not maybe not fully germane; I'd be happy to discuss in detail if anyone wanted but might be best to discuss in another topic, depending perhaps on Jon's preferences.

(Starting to be on/off-topic, but related as it involves NWT).

Plenty of folks would like to be able to see both roads and trails in Mapsource on the PC when they are using it for planning/etc. Today you can see either a road set, a trail set, a topo set, or a combined topo/trail set using one of various map sets available.

Would it be possible (primarily constrained I would think by usage licenses and production effort) to combine an open-source road-map with NWT so we could see everything at a glance? I don't want to create a proliferation of overlapping sets, but that would be one I would use in MS a lot...

Yes. And a great idea in my opinion.

I also hope we're not getting too far off topic and also I don't want to hijack this thread, I've been posting a lot. On the other hand, I think that Moun10Bike is a very busy man, having a regular life, a geocaching life and then taking what must be a considerable amount of time maintaining the mapsets without any financial gain from it.

Having said that, I'm thinking it's more about time than anything. If he's not interesting in this idea, or doesn't have any extra time for it, I'd be willing to take a shot at it.

7.4k · January 11, 2012

NW Topos already combines NW Trails with road data (and contours, hydrology, parks, et al.).

January 11, 2012

As noted in an earlier post, here is the info on the free and routable mapset:

Open Street Map (OSM)

January 11, 2012

...double posted for some reason...

Edited January 11, 2012 by _Shaddow_

January 11, 2012

Plenty of folks would like to be able to see both roads and trails in Mapsource on the PC when they are using it for planning/etc. Today you can see either a road set, a trail set, a topo set, or a combined topo/trail set using one of various map sets available.

Would it be possible (primarily constrained I would think by usage licenses and production effort) to combine an open-source road-map with NWT so we could see everything at a glance? I don't want to create a proliferation of overlapping sets, but that would be one I would use in MS a lot...

NW Topos already combines NW Trails with road data (and contours, hydrology, parks, et al.).

Would the NW Topo meet your needs or is there a reason that you prefer the City Map over a topo map?

January 11, 2012

One advantage to having both NW Trails and NW Topo loaded (along with other mapsets) is that when, say, City Navigator is showing you can see the trails. With only NW Topo you will see the trails only when it is showing, and it's not a autoroutable mapset so if you use that function you'll need the Garmin maps showing.

I'm kind of opposite of Shaddow, I have NW Topo loaded but only have it visible when I want to see the terrain. Mostly I use City Nav and NW Trails.

The Jester makes a good point about the autoroute and different usage styles.

I used to do the same but now instead of using Garmin's City Navigator I use a free open source autorouting mapset which is a lot cheaper than $100 for Garmin's and I'm able to autoroute while using NW Topos, best of both worlds for me. That's a more advanced discussion and not maybe not fully germane; I'd be happy to discuss in detail if anyone wanted but might be best to discuss in another topic, depending perhaps on Jon's preferences.

I downloaded the open street maps but I couldn't get them to work on my Garmin 60Cx. I just went ahead and purchased the Garmin City Navigator sandisk card for 2012 for $44. It's only $100 if you buy it directly from Garmin. If you shop around, you can find it for much cheaper.

Edited January 11, 2012 by GrnXnham

7.4k · February 28, 2012

Northwest Trails v1.72 and Northwest Topos v0.19 are now ready for download. Details are available on the blog.

9.5k · March 4, 2012

The DeLorme link is updated on my site.

http://www.wix.com/totemlake/hotm

1.9k · March 4, 2012

If I could only find my Micro SD card to SD card adapter... <_< :mad:

5.6k · March 4, 2012

If I could only find my Micro SD card to SD card adapter...

I have a couple of extra hanging around if you really need one...

1.9k · March 5, 2012

If I could only find my Micro SD card to SD card adapter...

I have a couple of extra hanging around if you really need one...

I do. I've been looking all over in the places it should be, without success.

5.6k · March 5, 2012

If I could only find my Micro SD card to SD card adapter...

I have a couple of extra hanging around if you really need one...

I do. I've been looking all over in the places it should be, without success.

Do you have time to meet tomorrow? Or I could drop it in your black light box from Glow In The Dark.

1.9k · March 5, 2012

If I could only find my Micro SD card to SD card adapter...

I have a couple of extra hanging around if you really need one...

I do. I've been looking all over in the places it should be, without success.

Do you have time to meet tomorrow? Or I could drop it in your black light box from Glow In The Dark.

Well, the box is not out there right now, but you're welcome to come by. I'll probably be home most of the day.

5.6k · March 5, 2012

Well, the box is not out there right now, but you're welcome to come by. I'll probably be home most of the day.

Opps! Sorry, the wife is home sick today, I won't be getting out there. Hopefully tomorrow.

1.9k · March 5, 2012

Well, the box is not out there right now, but you're welcome to come by. I'll probably be home most of the day.

Opps! Sorry, the wife is home sick today, I won't be getting out there. Hopefully tomorrow.

Wednesday afternoon would be preferred. In the mean time, I'll keep looking for it.

1.9k · March 7, 2012

If I could only find my Micro SD card to SD card adapter...

I have a couple of extra hanging around if you really need one...

Much thanks! I have the maps updating as I write this.

March 13, 2012

So I finally decided to try putting the trails on my Delorme PN-40. I've figured out how to get the trails into Topo 9, but I'm stumped on how to get them from there to the GPSr.

I've got several Draw layers in my project and can see the trails drawing over the base maps in Topo, but when I try and sync with the PN-40 Topo says I don't have anything to send to the device.

Anyone have pointers on the steps I'm missing?

March 13, 2012

So I finally decided to try putting the trails on my Delorme PN-40. I've figured out how to get the trails into Topo 9, but I'm stumped on how to get them from there to the GPSr.

I've got several Draw layers in my project and can see the trails drawing over the base maps in Topo, but when I try and sync with the PN-40 Topo says I don't have anything to send to the device.

Anyone have pointers on the steps I'm missing?

Sorry personally I don't have any experience with Delorme GPSrs but have used an older version of Topo which had an very poor user interface to say the least.

9.5k · March 13, 2012

I can help, but it'll have to wait till I'm at home. I think you'll like what you can do with it.

9.5k · March 14, 2012

So I finally decided to try putting the trails on my Delorme PN-40. I've figured out how to get the trails into Topo 9, but I'm stumped on how to get them from there to the GPSr.

I've got several Draw layers in my project and can see the trails drawing over the base maps in Topo, but when I try and sync with the PN-40 Topo says I don't have anything to send to the device.

Anyone have pointers on the steps I'm missing?

If you're using Topo 8,

will be the perfect walk through video for you. Topo 9's interface has changed somewhat, but the concept is the same. Please feel free to email me if you have more questions so we don't hijack the thread. totemlake at gmail dot com

7.4k · April 27, 2012

Northwest Trails v1.73 and Northwest Topos v0.20 are now ready for download. Details are available on the blog.

7.4k · June 23, 2012

Northwest Trails v1.74 and Northwest Topos v0.21 are now ready for download. Details are available on the blog.

June 28, 2012

Great!

Thanks, Moun10Bike!

June 30, 2012

Great!

Thanks, Moun10Bike!

Yes, Thank you Moun10Bike. GrnXnham and I were just saying last weekend how much we love the maps/trails and how much we appreciated all that you do.

July 3, 2012

Thanks the great maps!

I do have a question, but not related to the maps themselves... I use Garmin MapSource to load the maps into my 60csx. I just downloaded the updates and they are now in MapSource. Can I just bring up the saved profile from last time I selected maps and resend it? Will it automatically grab the images from the newer version, or do I need to remove the old maps from the list and re-add them? (Or start over)

Thanks!

-TWT/Stephen

July 3, 2012

Thanks the great maps!

I do have a question, but not related to the maps themselves... I use Garmin MapSource to load the maps into my 60csx. I just downloaded the updates and they are now in MapSource. Can I just bring up the saved profile from last time I selected maps and resend it? Will it automatically grab the images from the newer version, or do I need to remove the old maps from the list and re-add them? (Or start over)

Thanks!

-TWT/Stephen

I use the saved profile method and it works fine. I have a file called 'maps' and just open it and transfer the maps over (after updated with the latest NW Trails and Topos of course)

7.4k · July 3, 2012

Yep, _Shaddow_ is correct. The saved profile tells MapSource what map tiles you want to load, and then the loading process pulls the copies of the indicated tiles that it finds on the hard drive and uploads them to the GPS. As long as you have the latest version installed (and I don't change the reference ID of the tiles), you will get the latest version on your GPS.

9.5k · July 3, 2012

The DeLorme link is updated on my site.

http://www.wix.com/totemlake/hotm

The web URL for my website has changed to http://totemlake.wix.com/hotm and the link to M10B's updated DeLorme file is updated.

July 3, 2012

_Shaddow_ & Moun10Bike,

Thanks for the quick responces, and that's great.. Makes it so much easier to update.. Now if it was only quicker. I write it directly to a flash card in my laptop instead of the GPS, but still takes a while...

Thanks!

-TWT/Stephen

7.4k · September 19, 2012

Northwest Trails v1.75 and Northwest Topos v0.22 are now ready for download. Details are available on the blog.

7.4k · December 20, 2012

Northwest Trails v1.76 and Northwest Topos v0.23 are now ready for download. Details are available on the blog.

December 21, 2012

It would be really nice if the NWT for Delorme were listed somewhere easy to find through that link or is Switchbacks sponsored by Garmin?

The Northwest Trails Project

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