HCx inaccuracy after upgrade to 2.60/2.60

[ryleyinstl]

I have an etrex legend hcx and I can find the software version (system, setup, menu, software version) but cannot find the gps software version. I shoulld know this but can't find after searching. Thanks for the help.

 

 

Software and GPS SW Version numbers are on the same screen.

 

 

Main Menu - Setup - System - press Menu and then select Software Version

[ryleyinstl]

I have an etrex legend hcx and I can find the software version (system, setup, menu, software version) but cannot find the gps software version. I shoulld know this but can't find after searching. Thanks for the help.

 

 

Software and GPS SW Version numbers are on the same screen.

 

 

Main Menu - Setup - System - press Menu and then select Software Version

[+vierhalbe]

As of today, Etrex Vista C's latest version is v2.70

 

Are you sure your friend's one is Vista HCX?

 

It definitely is.

 

We just went out for an extended night caching tour, hoping to see any difference in behavior. And indeed, my device tilted twice (one time mine was off 90 meters while both devices were lying on the floor close to each other, another time it decided to drift until being off about 50 meters while we were walking along a railway track.

 

Both times it stabilized without intervention. I wouldn't have noticed these issues this time without comparing track data after the walk.

 

The other device with 2.70 didn't show unexpected inaccuracies.

 

Still V 2.70 is not available for download... I wonder what's going on at Garmin... Maybe Garmin support can provide the firmware upon request?

[ryleyinstl]

Not that I don't believe you but could you post a picture here of the GPSr (showing model info) with it on the screen showing the firmware/software version. If so, I volunteer to take that to Garmin.

Edited July 25, 2008 by ryleyinstl

[dualcore]

 

Still V 2.70 is not available for download...

 

Thanks for the update.

 

I wonder what's going on at Garmin...

 

Hopefully it is not because of the release person who happen to use a HCX and 2.6 version firmware that drifted and ..., you know.

[Kyle_freemason]

I agree I think the person who had 2.70 taking it to release it got lost using the garmin hcx with 2.60....

[mikser]

Rubber band came off my unit, so I took it back to the retailer, and to my surprise got a brand new one (and a restarted warranty period, which seems to apply in such cases here).

 

Versions are 2.60/2.60 factory installed. So I took it for a walk, and no drifts. So as I think many of us suspected, this looks like a combination of software and hardware problems: i.e. the inaccuracy only happens on certain chipset revisions with certain software versions.

 

For me a happy ending, ...but I still feel Garmin could have handled this a lot better.

[+RRLover]

After one walk do you really feel confident that you're "out of the woods"?

 

Norm

[mikser]

After one walk do you really feel confident that you're "out of the woods"?

 

Some places on this route have consistently triggered the drifting behavior on the old unit with the 2.60 fw, but it could have been just a lucky constellation. I'll report when I can confirm this theory with 100% confidence.

[DonpK]

i.e. the inaccuracy only happens on certain chipset revisions

 

Let's say, hypothetically, that the problem is chipset related and can't be fixed with a firmware change. Is there any history on how Garmin would handle what might amount to a "recall" of an unknown number of units?

 

One reason I ask is because my one year warranty expires at the end of next month.

 

Don

[ben_r_]

FWIW I just ordered a Vista HCx from Amazon and got it last night, powered it up and it was 2.60/2.60. I took the batteries out, boxed it up, printed the return shipping label and ordered the 60CSx. Done.

[EFIALTIS]

FWIW I just ordered a Vista HCx from Amazon and got it last night, powered it up and it was 2.60/2.60. I took the batteries out, boxed it up, printed the return shipping label and ordered the 60CSx. Done.

 

A wise choice... I wish i could do the same....

[SiliconFiend]

FWIW I just ordered a Vista HCx from Amazon and got it last night, powered it up and it was 2.60/2.60. I took the batteries out, boxed it up, printed the return shipping label and ordered the 60CSx. Done.

Umm, what were you expecting? Why did you even bother ordering it? Sounds like you just wasted shipping charges. I know there are reports of a 2.70 version coming on some new units, but don't you think if Garmin has a magic version that fixes everything, they'll release it to the unwashed masses, too?

[ben_r_]

FWIW I just ordered a Vista HCx from Amazon and got it last night, powered it up and it was 2.60/2.60. I took the batteries out, boxed it up, printed the return shipping label and ordered the 60CSx. Done.

Umm, what were you expecting? Why did you even bother ordering it? Sounds like you just wasted shipping charges. I know there are reports of a 2.70 version coming on some new units, but don't you think if Garmin has a magic version that fixes everything, they'll release it to the unwashed masses, too?

Well actually I didnt find out about the issues with the Vista HCx until after I ordered... On top of that shipping from Amazon is free and they will pay for the return shipping if the item is defective or if you are dissatisfied with the quality of the item. So I lost nothing

[Z400Pilot]

3 weeks ago I bought a Legend HCx at Best Buy for $189 with a vehicle power adapter, windshield mount, 128mb card and City Navigator NT. It seems like a great deal, the street by street routing worked great, the accuracy seems good, I found 11 caches with no DNF's. The compass didn't work below 2-3 mph as others have posted and the odometer when hiking appears inaccurate. I originally wanted a 60 CSx, but didn't want to spend that much money, but after doing a lot of research on here I returned the Legend HCx and ordered a 60 CSx as they seem a lot more proven. I hope Garmin works out a fix for the Vista/Legend HCx's as I otherwise liked the unit.

[+Team Loloboto]

3 weeks ago I bought a Legend HCx at Best Buy for $189 with a vehicle power adapter, windshield mount, 128mb card and City Navigator NT. It seems like a great deal, the street by street routing worked great, the accuracy seems good, I found 11 caches with no DNF's. The compass didn't work below 2-3 mph as others have posted and the odometer when hiking appears inaccurate. I originally wanted a 60 CSx, but didn't want to spend that much money, but after doing a lot of research on here I returned the Legend HCx and ordered a 60 CSx as they seem a lot more proven. I hope Garmin works out a fix for the Vista/Legend HCx's as I otherwise liked the unit.

 

The compass not responding could just be the default setting of 90 seconds before it comes on after you stop moving. I have mine set to come on after 15 seconds of speeds less than 1 mph.

[+MacFlash]

3 weeks ago I bought a Legend HCx at Best Buy for $189 with a vehicle power adapter, windshield mount, 128mb card and City Navigator NT. It seems like a great deal, the street by street routing worked great, the accuracy seems good, I found 11 caches with no DNF's. The compass didn't work below 2-3 mph as others have posted and the odometer when hiking appears inaccurate. I originally wanted a 60 CSx, but didn't want to spend that much money, but after doing a lot of research on here I returned the Legend HCx and ordered a 60 CSx as they seem a lot more proven. I hope Garmin works out a fix for the Vista/Legend HCx's as I otherwise liked the unit.

 

The compass not responding could just be the default setting of 90 seconds before it comes on after you stop moving. I have mine set to come on after 15 seconds of speeds less than 1 mph.

He is talking about a Legend, which does not have a magnetic compass. Since pre 2.6 firmware only detected movement above 2 miles /hour the compass, which only responds to the direction of movement. will not work at slower speeds.

 

BTW, thats a fantastic deal. I looked at Best Buy and they have the Legend HCx grossly overpriced at over 300 bucks.

Edited August 3, 2008 by MacFlash

[gps512]

In case any Garmin folks are trying to understand the problem following TopherAC's call to cust.serv., here's an updated summary of the variables.

 

Potential causes of the problem...please update the list if you have information:

low speed navigation - confirmed- low speed in all instances reported

electronic compass interference - eliminated - occurs with electronic compass on or off

backlight interference - maybe

WAAS - eliminated - occurs with WAAS on or off

challenging conditions - eliminated - users have experienced it in the open

non-Garmin maps - eliminated - happens with Topo2008, CityNav NA 08/09, Garmin MG NA7, and custom

specific to 2.6/2.6 - confirmed - both from webupdate and direct from factory

Time/cumulative error - maybe - many have seen it happen after time on the trail

SD card size - eliminated - 2GB down to 256MB card provided with unit

Track Log on - maybe - Many have had the track log on, don't know about everybody

Model - occuring on the Colorado and the Vista HCx

expandable (x) - maybe

(H)igh sensitivity - maybe

Terrain - seems prettyvariable among those posting

 

Any others?

 

I'm new to this forum but very interested in seeing the vista HCx issue(s) resolved. I would like to use the Vista HCx on a hiking trip I have planned in the new year. I think you may want to add the GPS chip set rev number to the above list. I think you can get it by going into maintenance mode. This will help you to determine weather it is related to the H/W (chip set) or if its just firmware. Those that have units that are acting up should compare rev numbers with those that have units that are working fine.

 

I think you will be able (I hope) to get the rev number by following the instructions re diagnostic/maintenance mode on the following link:

 

http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/secret.htm

Edited August 7, 2008 by gps512

[mikser]

I still haven't had opportunity to verify the behavior of the new unit, but FWIW here are the serial numbers:

 

old: 16D037...

new: 16D141...

 

I don't see anything in the test mode about chipset revision (bravo version? doesn't sound like it).

 

Everyone trying test mode (ENTER+PowerOn) should be aware of the following: only do it with no sattelites in view, or some (non-permanent) miscalibration could result: http://gpsinformation.net/main/diagnost.txt

[OldjimUK]

It also applies to the Legend HCx without backlight operating

At the same time as the track wanders off I noticed massive errors in the altitude reading (actual altitude about 75 metres - reading minus 40 metres).

[freeday]

just heard that the vista hcx will get a firmware update within the next days

[gps512]

just heard that the vista hcx will get a firmware update within the next days

 

I contacted Garim support and pointed them to this forum and inquired when they will have a new s/w rev available to resolve these issues.

 

Garmins response as follows

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I do not have dates as to when firmware updates will be available. Our

engineers determine the need for firmware updates through there

research. Once an update is available, it will be listed on our

website. I will pass your e-mail onto the appropriate department.

 

Where did you hear about the new s/w rev being available in the next few days? Just curious.

 

Thanks

Edited August 10, 2008 by gps512

[+wkmccall]

I've recently upgraded the firmware in my Vista HCx from 2.40/2.30 to 2.60/2.60 with WebUpdater. After this I'm sometimes seeing much degraded accuracy.

 

The peculiarity of this is that I can get 20m (60ft) of inaccuracy shown even with excellent satellite reception. The actual error (compared to the position on the map) is usually much greater, like 50m (150ft). When this happens, and I switch the unit off and immediately switch it on, then it shows the exact position on the map, and the location accuracy shown is 4m (12ft). So the reception is indeed good, only the GPS becomes confused, and doesn't calculate the position correctly.

 

I've asked Garmin support, and they replied that I should perform a reset (PAGE-ENTER-POWERON), but it didn't make a difference. I've also tried to downgrade the firmware to 2.40, but this only changed the "Software Version", the "GPS SW Version" remained 2.60, and I'm still seeing the same problem.

 

Anyone having a similar experience?

 

I had the same problem and contacted Garmin Support. I was told to do a hard reset - back to factory defaults - let set for 30 minutes and let it acquire the satellites again.

What I found my problem was is that the GPS's setting "Lock On Road" was set.

My GPS would "hang" after getting out of the vehicle and heading to the cache. I would have to turn the GPS off and re-route to the cache again.

 

I don't use my Legend HCx much to navigate with, I use a Quest 2 for that so I'm not too sure how that setting got re-checked after the upgrade.

[freeday]

got the info from a garmin contact person.

[EFIALTIS]

I would like to report that the unit show 's inaccuracy problem even with the 2.50/2.30 software.

Yesterday while i was recording my path the unit suddenly drifted from the position and showed 18m and 60 m! errors.This happened twice and was temporary corrected with power cycle.The unit also had problem's locating the waas signal's.The track was on a clear view of the sky and with me was hiking my friend with his 60csx unit which recorded a perfect track and had no problem's with waas.

So i believe that it's only software problem but we have a serious hardware issue.I'm still under warranty and i will get garmin to replace my unit.

[ryleyinstl]

Spent better part of 2 days wondering around downtown Chicago this weekend. I took along the Legend HCx with all the places the wife and I wanted to see. I left the GPSr on the whole time and just put it in an outside pocket of my backpack. I would pull it out every once in a while to see where we were or to figure out how to get where we wanted to go next. Even with multiple 50+ story buildings around us I never experienced any drifting issues or strange anomalies during normal operation. The only time I saw incorrect position reporting was when the GPS signals were practically nonexistent, under the elevated train and beside two very tall buildings for example. As soon as we moved away from the elevated train the problem would go away.

 

Just wanted to chime in and say not everyone that is running 2.6/2.6 is having issues. When I purchased my HCx it came with v2.3 preloaded so I doubt it’s a newer production run.

[+adamsloco]

Spent better part of 2 days wondering around downtown Chicago this weekend. I took along the Legend HCx with all the places the wife and I wanted to see. I left the GPSr on the whole time and just put it in an outside pocket of my backpack. I would pull it out every once in a while to see where we were or to figure out how to get where we wanted to go next. Even with multiple 50+ story buildings around us I never experienced any drifting issues or strange anomalies during normal operation. The only time I saw incorrect position reporting was when the GPS signals were practically nonexistent, under the elevated train and beside two very tall buildings for example. As soon as we moved away from the elevated train the problem would go away.

 

Just wanted to chime in and say not everyone that is running 2.6/2.6 is having issues. When I purchased my HCx it came with v2.3 preloaded so I doubt it’s a newer production run.

 

You said that was a Legend, HCX? I have been following this issue as I have both a Colorado and a Legend HCX, and I have had problems with the Colorado but not the Legend. I have heard that it was similar problems with the Vista. But if the Legend isn't affected, maybe the problem lies with the electronic compass, or interference from that. The Vista and the Colorado both have electronic compasses, the Legend does not.

 

Just wondering.

 

Adam

[+coggins]

You said that was a Legend, HCX? I have been following this issue as I have both a Colorado and a Legend HCX, and I have had problems with the Colorado but not the Legend. I have heard that it was similar problems with the Vista. But if the Legend isn't affected, maybe the problem lies with the electronic compass, or interference from that. The Vista and the Colorado both have electronic compasses, the Legend does not.

 

Just wondering.

 

Adam

I have the Vista HCx and have also followed this thread. No problems what so ever in 8 months of hard use... Try as I might, I can't duplicate any of these issues. Always use the compass, tracks are correct... I don't think it's the software, I think there might be a bad batch floating around, and the current software doesn't take those units into account.

Edited August 12, 2008 by coggins

[cliff_hanger]

 

I have the Vista HCx and have also followed this thread. No problems what so ever in 8 months of hard use... Try as I might, I can't duplicate any of these issues. Always use the compass, tracks are correct... I don't think it's the software, I think there might be a bad batch floating around, and the current software doesn't take those units into account.

 

I was thinking the same thing over this weekend. I have a Vista HCx purchased in February 2008. Software versions 2.60/2.60 that were upgraded via web updater. I don't remember the versions it came with. Installed maps are Topo 2008 and MetroGuide NA v7 "hacked" with Metro Gold. I have a 1gB micro SD card and use Powerex rechargeable batteries. The map segments installed are only the CT, NY, MA tri-state area because that's where I do my caching. I aways use the electronic compass. Caches are always loaded as POIs.

 

On Saturday, I went for a 7.12 mile hike in Harriman SP, NY on part of the AT and a loop around Island Pond. When I got back to the car, my track log showed a 15 foot discrepancy.

 

On Sunday, I went for a 4.92 mile hike in the same park, but a different section. On returning to my car, my track log showed a 5 foot discrepancy.

 

Both of those are well within the stated accuracy of the GPSr.

 

I'll be happy to post track logs or any other information that might be helpful but I'm just not seeing the type of track error that some of you folks are talking about. This really makes me wonder if it is the software or a bad batch as coggins suggested.

[TopherAC]

If it is a bad batch, something I threw out as a possibility many posts ago, wouldn't it make sense for Garmin to try and track the serial numbers of the people who are calling in and complaining? I have spoke to at least 4 different customer services reps about this issue and none of them have asked for the serial number.

 

In my case, the inaccuracy issue went away after I downgraded to version 2.30. Because of this, I have a hard time believing that this is a hardware issue. If I were Garmin, once a pattern has been established that supports a possible problem, I would have offered a free exchange to a small group of these folks just so I could get my hands on these units to test them for myself. If they tested them they would clearly see that there is an issue. Then they can start the process of trying to determine if it is a software or hardware issue. As it stands, Garmin's customer service "system" appears to be totally incapable of tracking customer complaints to identify any patterns. If this is the case, Garmin is probably no closer to fixing this issue and probably has no plans to do so. In my book that represents terrible customer service, for which I have no tolerance.

 

The fact of the matter is that there are bad units that have been sold and Garmin is not standing by their products. It shouldn't be our job to solve this issue and present possible causes to Garmin. They have consistently refused to own up to this issue and as a result the consumer is left with few options aside from ranting and raving on this message board.

 

Another thought...didn't the Colorado come after the Vista HCX? Don't they use the same chip? If so, that would mean that possible chip problems are not the result of startup manufacturing issues but a true manufacturing anomaly. If I were Garmin, this would concern me greatly...or maybe it has since they appear to have chosen a different chip manufacturer for the Oregon.

Edited August 12, 2008 by TopherAC

[TheVillagePeople]

I have been following this thread for several months now, and I have experienced the same problems after upgrading my vista to 2.60/2.60 as many of you have mentioned here. It seems to work fine when I am in the car (with faster speeds I haven't had a problem), but as soon as I take it out for a hike it wants to wander, the worst has been about 70m. After a power down and power up it functions as it should, but often I will have to do this several times over the course of a hike.

 

I guess there's not much I can do about it for now, I'm just relieved to find others are having the same problem.

[EFIALTIS]

This is the official Garmin U.K to my mail.

 

"Thank you for contacting Garmin(Europe)Ltd.

 

Thank you for your email, I will be happy to help you.

 

If there is an issue with the inacuraccy of this device on the 2.60

version of the software I am sure that the software engineers in the US

will be developing a new version to correct this. Please try also a

master reset on the device, by turning the unit off and then press and

hold together, PAGE ENTER and POWER. I hope this helps you. Althogh I

will pass this information onto the US in anycase.

 

Thank you.

 

Kind regards

Alex Collard Garmin (Europe) Ltd "

[gerpo]

just heard that the vista hcx will get a firmware update within the next days

I sure hope that is true. My Etrex inaccuracy seems to be getting worde over time.

A month ago I had almost no problems with it (2.60/2.60). The last week I had the inaccuracies >10 times during a 3 hour hike. So inaccurate that I almost missed some turns in the forest while walking a route.

[Kyle_freemason]

I updated my legend hcx as soon as the 2.60 update came out. Thus far, I have had no troubles out of it. Infact, about a week before I updated it, I went geocaching and turned the unit on on a gravel road about a mile before arriving at the cache found the cache and turned it off. About 2 weeks after, I drove 30 miles and turned the unit on on the same gravel road about 2 miles before I turned it on and my current track met up exactly with the line drawn from the previous track. I then continued on with the unit finding more caches and when I returned home the unit drew my track exactly along the highway to my house. Sometimes the bearing pointer is squirrely when I am using the unit to go to a cache.. though it did that with the 2.30/2.40 files. What is a definitive way to see if my unit is affected adversely by the upgrade to 2.60? Any ideas?

[+Team Loloboto]

The different models of Vistas have different versions of firmware from each other.

VistaC has v2.7, Vista Cx has 3.0 and Hcx has 2.6.

[gerpo]

I updated my legend hcx as soon as the 2.60 update came out. Thus far, I have had no troubles out of it. Infact, about a week before I updated it, I went geocaching and turned the unit on on a gravel road about a mile before arriving at the cache found the cache and turned it off. About 2 weeks after, I drove 30 miles and turned the unit on on the same gravel road about 2 miles before I turned it on and my current track met up exactly with the line drawn from the previous track. I then continued on with the unit finding more caches and when I returned home the unit drew my track exactly along the highway to my house. Sometimes the bearing pointer is squirrely when I am using the unit to go to a cache.. though it did that with the 2.30/2.40 files. What is a definitive way to see if my unit is affected adversely by the upgrade to 2.60? Any ideas?

 

Use the device for a longer time, ie for a longer hike. Mine loses accuracy after an hour or so. When I switch off the unit and on again, it is ok for a while and then starts drifting again.

[Kyle_freemason]

I will definitely keep using it to see if it drifts. Maybe it was drifting under the original hardware files but I did not realize it since I had no idea that it was happening...and so maybe that is why under 2.60 I do not notice any difference. Now I am curious. Hopefully as everyone else has said an update will come from Garmin fixing this problem.

[mikser]

If it is a bad batch, something I threw out as a possibility many posts ago, wouldn't it make sense for Garmin to try and track the serial numbers of the people who are calling in and complaining? I have spoke to at least 4 different customer services reps about this issue and none of them have asked for the serial number.

 

In my case, the inaccuracy issue went away after I downgraded to version 2.30. Because of this, I have a hard time believing that this is a hardware issue.

 

It may be a combination of hardware/software: my theory is that the chipsets in the bad batch didn't tolerate some of the firmware changes. As Garmin tested (uhm, maybe tried out) the 2.60 firmware only with the newer units which weren't effected, they didn't notice the problem.

 

And as you said, their bug tracking system is so incredibly broken, that they simly cannot identify/fix this issue based on customer feedback.

 

Etrex H and Colorado manufacturing probably overlapped quite a bit, so the bad batch might have made it into early Colorado units as well. In both cases there are some people who are not seeing this strange drifting issue, even when they are explicity looking for it.

[gps512]

If it is a bad batch, something I threw out as a possibility many posts ago, wouldn't it make sense for Garmin to try and track the serial numbers of the people who are calling in and complaining? I have spoke to at least 4 different customer services reps about this issue and none of them have asked for the serial number.

 

In my case, the inaccuracy issue went away after I downgraded to version 2.30. Because of this, I have a hard time believing that this is a hardware issue.

 

It may be a combination of hardware/software: my theory is that the chipsets in the bad batch didn't tolerate some of the firmware changes. As Garmin tested (uhm, maybe tried out) the 2.60 firmware only with the newer units which weren't effected, they didn't notice the problem.

 

And as you said, their bug tracking system is so incredibly broken, that they simly cannot identify/fix this issue based on customer feedback.

 

Etrex H and Colorado manufacturing probably overlapped quite a bit, so the bad batch might have made it into early Colorado units as well. In both cases there are some people who are not seeing this strange drifting issue, even when they are explicity looking for it.

 

If it is an early hardware batch issue then you may be able to confirm this by comparing serial numbers. The problem should no longer exist after a certain serial number. This would give a good indication that it is hardware.

 

Is there anyone having this problem that has recently purchased the Vista HCx?

[+coggins]

If it is a bad batch, something I threw out as a possibility many posts ago, wouldn't it make sense for Garmin to try and track the serial numbers of the people who are calling in and complaining? I have spoke to at least 4 different customer services reps about this issue and none of them have asked for the serial number.

 

In my case, the inaccuracy issue went away after I downgraded to version 2.30. Because of this, I have a hard time believing that this is a hardware issue. If I were Garmin, once a pattern has been established that supports a possible problem, I would have offered a free exchange to a small group of these folks just so I could get my hands on these units to test them for myself. If they tested them they would clearly see that there is an issue. Then they can start the process of trying to determine if it is a software or hardware issue. As it stands, Garmin's customer service "system" appears to be totally incapable of tracking customer complaints to identify any patterns. If this is the case, Garmin is probably no closer to fixing this issue and probably has no plans to do so. In my book that represents terrible customer service, for which I have no tolerance.

 

The fact of the matter is that there are bad units that have been sold and Garmin is not standing by their products. It shouldn't be our job to solve this issue and present possible causes to Garmin. They have consistently refused to own up to this issue and as a result the consumer is left with few options aside from ranting and raving on this message board.

 

Another thought...didn't the Colorado come after the Vista HCX? Don't they use the same chip? If so, that would mean that possible chip problems are not the result of startup manufacturing issues but a true manufacturing anomaly. If I were Garmin, this would concern me greatly...or maybe it has since they appear to have chosen a different chip manufacturer for the Oregon.

I just checked and the sky isn't falling. If your unit isn't working correctly, the first call to Garmin should have reported that fact and you should have an RMA and they would have a unit that exhibits the problem. Calling and complaining isn't getting you anywhere. There are a lot more components in the unit that are mission critical to providing a correct PVT solution that just what you are referring to as "the chip". Believe what you want, but after several months you still have the same unit and still don't have your problem resolved. Myself, if I had the issues you describe, I would have just exchanged my unit with the vendor (In my case REI) I purchased my unit from. Just curious, you say you are using 2.3, why not 2.4 & 2.5?

[+MacFlash]

If it is a bad batch, something I threw out as a possibility many posts ago, wouldn't it make sense for Garmin to try and track the serial numbers of the people who are calling in and complaining? I have spoke to at least 4 different customer services reps about this issue and none of them have asked for the serial number.

 

In my case, the inaccuracy issue went away after I downgraded to version 2.30. Because of this, I have a hard time believing that this is a hardware issue. If I were Garmin, once a pattern has been established that supports a possible problem, I would have offered a free exchange to a small group of these folks just so I could get my hands on these units to test them for myself. If they tested them they would clearly see that there is an issue. Then they can start the process of trying to determine if it is a software or hardware issue. As it stands, Garmin's customer service "system" appears to be totally incapable of tracking customer complaints to identify any patterns. If this is the case, Garmin is probably no closer to fixing this issue and probably has no plans to do so. In my book that represents terrible customer service, for which I have no tolerance.

 

The fact of the matter is that there are bad units that have been sold and Garmin is not standing by their products. It shouldn't be our job to solve this issue and present possible causes to Garmin. They have consistently refused to own up to this issue and as a result the consumer is left with few options aside from ranting and raving on this message board.

 

Another thought...didn't the Colorado come after the Vista HCX? Don't they use the same chip? If so, that would mean that possible chip problems are not the result of startup manufacturing issues but a true manufacturing anomaly. If I were Garmin, this would concern me greatly...or maybe it has since they appear to have chosen a different chip manufacturer for the Oregon.

I just checked and the sky isn't falling. If your unit isn't working correctly, the first call to Garmin should have reported that fact and you should have an RMA and they would have a unit that exhibits the problem. Calling and complaining isn't getting you anywhere. There are a lot more components in the unit that are mission critical to providing a correct PVT solution that just what you are referring to as "the chip". Believe what you want, but after several months you still have the same unit and still don't have your problem resolved. Myself, if I had the issues you describe, I would have just exchanged my unit with the vendor (In my case REI) I purchased my unit from. Just curious, you say you are using 2.3, why not 2.4 & 2.5?

 

Some of us have done this only to receive a different unit with the same problems. If Garmin truly doesn't know what the problem is (both HCx and Colorado GPSRs), how do they know if the one they are shipping you is free of the problem? I doubt they take each one and hike around with it for a few days to see if it exhibits the symptoms described here.

[gps512]

If it is a bad batch, something I threw out as a possibility many posts ago, wouldn't it make sense for Garmin to try and track the serial numbers of the people who are calling in and complaining? I have spoke to at least 4 different customer services reps about this issue and none of them have asked for the serial number.

 

In my case, the inaccuracy issue went away after I downgraded to version 2.30. Because of this, I have a hard time believing that this is a hardware issue. If I were Garmin, once a pattern has been established that supports a possible problem, I would have offered a free exchange to a small group of these folks just so I could get my hands on these units to test them for myself. If they tested them they would clearly see that there is an issue. Then they can start the process of trying to determine if it is a software or hardware issue. As it stands, Garmin's customer service "system" appears to be totally incapable of tracking customer complaints to identify any patterns. If this is the case, Garmin is probably no closer to fixing this issue and probably has no plans to do so. In my book that represents terrible customer service, for which I have no tolerance.

 

The fact of the matter is that there are bad units that have been sold and Garmin is not standing by their products. It shouldn't be our job to solve this issue and present possible causes to Garmin. They have consistently refused to own up to this issue and as a result the consumer is left with few options aside from ranting and raving on this message board.

 

Another thought...didn't the Colorado come after the Vista HCX? Don't they use the same chip? If so, that would mean that possible chip problems are not the result of startup manufacturing issues but a true manufacturing anomaly. If I were Garmin, this would concern me greatly...or maybe it has since they appear to have chosen a different chip manufacturer for the Oregon.

I just checked and the sky isn't falling. If your unit isn't working correctly, the first call to Garmin should have reported that fact and you should have an RMA and they would have a unit that exhibits the problem. Calling and complaining isn't getting you anywhere. There are a lot more components in the unit that are mission critical to providing a correct PVT solution that just what you are referring to as "the chip". Believe what you want, but after several months you still have the same unit and still don't have your problem resolved. Myself, if I had the issues you describe, I would have just exchanged my unit with the vendor (In my case REI) I purchased my unit from. Just curious, you say you are using 2.3, why not 2.4 & 2.5?

 

Some of us have done this only to receive a different unit with the same problems. If Garmin truly doesn't know what the problem is (both HCx and Colorado GPSRs), how do they know if the one they are shipping you is free of the problem? I doubt they take each one and hike around with it for a few days to see if it exhibits the symptoms described here.

 

If the accuracy issue is happening to both HCx and Colorado there is one thing in common with both. They both use the Mediatek GPS chip. It seem likely that this is the root of the problem. If it was firmware that caused the accuracy / drift problem I suspect Garmin would have fixed it by now. They have had about a year to resolve the HCx issue and about 6 months on Colorado. I think they must be aware of and are working on this but it does worry me that they don’t seem to be able to resolve it (and wont even acknowledge that they are trying to resolve it or that it even exists) especially on one of there high end hand helds like the Colorado. This does not look good on them not to mention the customers that they are hanging out to dry.

[+MacFlash]

 

If the accuracy issue is happening to both HCx and Colorado there is one thing in common with both. They both use the Mediatek GPS chip. It seem likely that this is the root of the problem. If it was firmware that caused the accuracy / drift problem I suspect Garmin would have fixed it by now. They have had about a year to resolve the HCx issue and about 6 months on Colorado. I think they must be aware of and are working on this but it does worry me that they don’t seem to be able to resolve it (and wont even acknowledge that they are trying to resolve it or that it even exists) especially on one of there high end hand helds like the Colorado. This does not look good on them not to mention the customers that they are hanging out to dry.

 

The one saving grace is that on the Etrex models this bug seems to have appeared with chip firmware 2.6 ( from what I can tell this is the only chip firmware that exists for the Colorado). We are all waiting to see if it disappears with 2.7

[gps512]

 

If the accuracy issue is happening to both HCx and Colorado there is one thing in common with both. They both use the Mediatek GPS chip. It seem likely that this is the root of the problem. If it was firmware that caused the accuracy / drift problem I suspect Garmin would have fixed it by now. They have had about a year to resolve the HCx issue and about 6 months on Colorado. I think they must be aware of and are working on this but it does worry me that they don’t seem to be able to resolve it (and wont even acknowledge that they are trying to resolve it or that it even exists) especially on one of there high end hand helds like the Colorado. This does not look good on them not to mention the customers that they are hanging out to dry.

 

The one saving grace is that on the Etrex models this bug seems to have appeared with chip firmware 2.6 ( from what I can tell this is the only chip firmware that exists for the Colorado). We are all waiting to see if it disappears with 2.7

 

Certainly a firmware fix would be the best possible solution ( lets hope). I'm follow this closely as I'm very interested in the Vista HCx (because of its size and battery life) but wont buy one until this issue is fully resolved.

[roybassist]

The one saving grace is that on the Etrex models this bug seems to have appeared with chip firmware 2.6

What about this?

I would like to report that the unit show 's inaccuracy problem even with the 2.50/2.30 software.

Yesterday while i was recording my path the unit suddenly drifted from the position and showed 18m and 60 m! errors.This happened twice and was temporary corrected with power cycle.The unit also had problem's locating the waas signal's.The track was on a clear view of the sky and with me was hiking my friend with his 60csx unit which recorded a perfect track and had no problem's with waas.

So i believe that it's only software problem but we have a serious hardware issue.I'm still under warranty and i will get garmin to replace my unit.

[gerpo]

Too bad that Garmin does not communicate about this. I would be nice (for us) if we knew what they were doing about the problems at the moment and /or what they expect for solving them.

[+MacFlash]

The one saving grace is that on the Etrex models this bug seems to have appeared with chip firmware 2.6

What about this?

I would like to report that the unit show 's inaccuracy problem even with the 2.50/2.30 software.

Yesterday while i was recording my path the unit suddenly drifted from the position and showed 18m and 60 m! errors.This happened twice and was temporary corrected with power cycle.The unit also had problem's locating the waas signal's.The track was on a clear view of the sky and with me was hiking my friend with his 60csx unit which recorded a perfect track and had no problem's with waas.

So i believe that it's only software problem but we have a serious hardware issue.I'm still under warranty and i will get garmin to replace my unit.

A sample of one. No disrespect, but the majority have reported the opposite. He could be right, but I have not heard anyone else confirm it. Others in fact have said that down grading the firmware solved their problem.

[TopherAC]

Coggins -

 

I will be returning my unit as I also purchased mine from REI. However, I will NOT exchange it for another Garmin unit with this chipset. At this point in time it is doubtful I will ever buy another unit from Garmin because the customer service has been horrible and significant accuracy issues with a GPS is unacceptable. I am waiting for the Delorme PN-40 to be released and when it is I will most likely jump off this sinking ship!

 

To answer your question regarding why I am not running version 2.40 or 2.50....the versions you mention relate to the GPS firmware software not the chipset software and prior versions of the chipset software (assuming they exist) are not available. I spoke with several Garmin Reps about obtaining a GPS chipset version that is lower than 2.60 and higher than 2.30 and they point blank will not provide it (again assuming they exist). So....I don't have any other options than to run chipset version 2.30, unless of course I decide it is not important to know where I am actually at.

[TopherAC]

Duplicate---deleted

Edited August 15, 2008 by TopherAC

[gps512]

Coggins -

 

I will be returning my unit as I also purchased mine from REI. However, I will NOT exchange it for another Garmin unit with this chipset. At this point in time it is doubtful I will ever buy another unit from Garmin because the customer service has been horrible and significant accuracy issues with a GPS is unacceptable. I am waiting for the Delorme PN-40 to be released and when it is I will most likely jump off this sinking ship!

 

The Delorme PN-40 looks like a nice unit. We will have to wait and see how it performs after it’s in the hands of some actual users later this fall.

 

I'm looking forward to see if the vista HCx issue will be resolved with the next s/w rev. (I'm not that hopeful as I still think it’s a h/w issue. my gut feeling ). I'm yet to find an alternative to the Vista HCx ( size and battery life). I still have some time before I will have to make a purchase decision so I'll wait and see how this drama plays out. I'm glad I came across this forum before I purchased however I'm losing confidence in Garmin’s ability and /or willingness to resolve this. I'm also surprised ( see Garmin support e-mails in this forum) that they seem to be willing to sacrifice their customer base.