Quick question

[+sbell111]

Apparently, everyone who disagrees with you are arguing for the sake of argument. Everyone who agrees with you are fine. Otherwise, you wouldn't have posted a question that has been covered over and over and over and over again.

[+tozainamboku]

I agree there are places where asking permission isn't needed....but how does one determine this??

 

I'd say any park having a cache....BUT, that's not always the case (and placing a cache in the wrong park could spell big trouble for caching). Maybe all cemeteries?? Well, no....some are privately owned...but how would one know this???

 

So my thought on this...how do you TRULY know you can place a cache w/o asking?? A gut feeling qualify? Because you feel you have the right?? Just let me know where the line gets drawn!!

The frisbee rule. Sure geocaching isn't they same a tossing a frisbee but the idea of placing a cache without asking permission is roughly equivalent to tossing a frisbee without asking permission. Unless there is a sign that says no frisbee, most would be comfortable tossing a frisbee in a public park without first getting permission. Tossing a frisbee on private property will depend a lot on how others are using that property. For example, you might toss a frisbee in a large open space in a industrial park or the quad in a private university, and maybe even in the far corner of the Wal*Mart parking lot. In many cases you might realize that you should ask first but you toss the frisbee anyhow since the property owner is most likely simply going to ask you leave and toss your frisbee somewhere else. Nobody gets arrested for frisbee tossing. You probably should take into consideration the differences between geocaching and frisbee tossing. On one hand, the public might not be aware of geocaching, walking around staring at a handheld electronic device and looking under lamppost skirts might look suspicious (especially at night). On the other hand, you may be in an out in just a few minutes unlike the frisbee players so you might not be noticed at all.

[Mushtang]

Are any of you who are arguing here actually trying to do some good, or do you all just like sucking the fun out of the whole forum?

We're debating the topic of permission, whether it needs to be express, assumed, etc. and how to determine which is appropriate.

 

If that means that this particular topic, or this particular thread on the topic, is not fun for you, there's an easy way for you to avoid reading it. I would prefer that you continue to enjoy the forums as much as possible and not be upset about topics might bother you.

 

I've never understood why someone would come into a thread and complain that the conversation in the thread upsets them. It's like people that go looking for a micro cache, find it, and then complain that it was a micro. But that's just me.

What's funny is how some will argue just to argue!!

 

Not you Mushtang.....but could you please refresh my memory on where you'd consider needing "expressed"? I agree there are places where asking permission isn't needed....but how does one determine this??

 

I'd say any park having a cache....BUT, that's not always the case (and placing a cache in the wrong park could spell big trouble for caching). Maybe all cemeteries?? Well, no....some are privately owned...but how would one know this???

 

So my thought on this...how do you TRULY know you can place a cache w/o asking?? A gut feeling qualify? Because you feel you have the right?? Just let me know where the line gets drawn!!

So is this post of yours arguing just to argue? You could re-read what's already been said, you don't have to reply on your memory. But you're posting again to try and... what? Stir the pot? Lead me somewhere? You've got a snappy come back to the Frisbee test that you're just dying to use but you need me to mention it first so you can get me? Or are you just arguing to argue?

 

I'd say that since you don't know how to tell, then it's best that you always get express permission.

 

The rest of us will have adequate permission as required.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I agree there are places where asking permission isn't needed....but how does one determine this??

 

I'd say any park having a cache....BUT, that's not always the case (and placing a cache in the wrong park could spell big trouble for caching). Maybe all cemeteries?? Well, no....some are privately owned...but how would one know this???

 

So my thought on this...how do you TRULY know you can place a cache w/o asking?? A gut feeling qualify? Because you feel you have the right?? Just let me know where the line gets drawn!!

The frisbee rule. Sure geocaching isn't they same a tossing a frisbee but the idea of placing a cache without asking permission is roughly equivalent to tossing a frisbee without asking permission. Unless there is a sign that says no frisbee, most would be comfortable tossing a frisbee in a public park without first getting permission. Tossing a frisbee on private property will depend a lot on how others are using that property. For example, you might toss a frisbee in a large open space in a industrial park or the quad in a private university, and maybe even in the far corner of the Wal*Mart parking lot. In many cases you might realize that you should ask first but you toss the frisbee anyhow since the property owner is most likely simply going to ask you leave and toss your frisbee somewhere else. Nobody gets arrested for frisbee tossing. You probably should take into consideration the differences between geocaching and frisbee tossing. On one hand, the public might not be aware of geocaching, walking around staring at a handheld electronic device and looking under lamppost skirts might look suspicious (especially at night). On the other hand, you may be in an out in just a few minutes unlike the frisbee players so you might not be noticed at all.

 

OK....but let's say you are throwing that frisbee in a place where you THINK you can, only to have the park ranger/land owner/WM manager/etc come out and raise a stink? What happens if they raise such a stink that "frisbee" gets a bad name and is then banned from many public areas? (and this HAS happened more than once) Wouldn't it be easier to ASK than to assume (not meaning easier as in no work involved...easier to assure permission is adequate)?? I mean, if you already feel there is a good chance you can do this, asking doesn't hurt, right? (I know, some will argue that this leads to the person being asked to make a snap decision which could be unfavorable....when asking, assure the person that there isn't a rush to a decision, then explain the benefits of caching for that person/park/WM lot).

[+Rockin Roddy]

Are any of you who are arguing here actually trying to do some good, or do you all just like sucking the fun out of the whole forum?

We're debating the topic of permission, whether it needs to be express, assumed, etc. and how to determine which is appropriate.

 

If that means that this particular topic, or this particular thread on the topic, is not fun for you, there's an easy way for you to avoid reading it. I would prefer that you continue to enjoy the forums as much as possible and not be upset about topics might bother you.

 

I've never understood why someone would come into a thread and complain that the conversation in the thread upsets them. It's like people that go looking for a micro cache, find it, and then complain that it was a micro. But that's just me.

What's funny is how some will argue just to argue!!

 

Not you Mushtang.....but could you please refresh my memory on where you'd consider needing "expressed"? I agree there are places where asking permission isn't needed....but how does one determine this??

 

I'd say any park having a cache....BUT, that's not always the case (and placing a cache in the wrong park could spell big trouble for caching). Maybe all cemeteries?? Well, no....some are privately owned...but how would one know this???

 

So my thought on this...how do you TRULY know you can place a cache w/o asking?? A gut feeling qualify? Because you feel you have the right?? Just let me know where the line gets drawn!!

So is this post of yours arguing just to argue? You could re-read what's already been said, you don't have to reply on your memory. But you're posting again to try and... what? Stir the pot? Lead me somewhere? You've got a snappy come back to the Frisbee test that you're just dying to use but you need me to mention it first so you can get me? Or are you just arguing to argue?

 

I'd say that since you don't know how to tell, then it's best that you always get express permission.

 

The rest of us will have adequate permission as required.

 

you got a complex there Mushtang?? I ask simply to get the answer. No alterior motive here at all! I truly want to know when you feel safe to place a cache on someone's property w/o asking. You seem awfully defensive here...or is it that you don't have an answer?? Let me ask plainly...HOW can you tell??? As I said....gut feeling?

 

The frisbee test might work on many places...what of my other examples though?

 

Oh, and when I said "not you Mushtang", I meant YOU weren't among those I think argue just for the sake...sorry if you misunderstood my point.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[+sbell111]

I agree there are places where asking permission isn't needed....but how does one determine this??

 

I'd say any park having a cache....BUT, that's not always the case (and placing a cache in the wrong park could spell big trouble for caching). Maybe all cemeteries?? Well, no....some are privately owned...but how would one know this???

 

So my thought on this...how do you TRULY know you can place a cache w/o asking?? A gut feeling qualify? Because you feel you have the right?? Just let me know where the line gets drawn!!

The frisbee rule. Sure geocaching isn't they same a tossing a frisbee but the idea of placing a cache without asking permission is roughly equivalent to tossing a frisbee without asking permission. Unless there is a sign that says no frisbee, most would be comfortable tossing a frisbee in a public park without first getting permission. Tossing a frisbee on private property will depend a lot on how others are using that property. For example, you might toss a frisbee in a large open space in a industrial park or the quad in a private university, and maybe even in the far corner of the Wal*Mart parking lot. In many cases you might realize that you should ask first but you toss the frisbee anyhow since the property owner is most likely simply going to ask you leave and toss your frisbee somewhere else. Nobody gets arrested for frisbee tossing. You probably should take into consideration the differences between geocaching and frisbee tossing. On one hand, the public might not be aware of geocaching, walking around staring at a handheld electronic device and looking under lamppost skirts might look suspicious (especially at night). On the other hand, you may be in an out in just a few minutes unlike the frisbee players so you might not be noticed at all.

OK....but let's say you are throwing that frisbee in a place where you THINK you can, only to have the park ranger/land owner/WM manager/etc come out and raise a stink? What happens if they raise such a stink that "frisbee" gets a bad name and is then banned from many public areas? (and this HAS happened more than once) Wouldn't it be easier to ASK than to assume (not meaning easier as in no work involved...easier to assure permission is adequate)?? I mean, if you already feel there is a good chance you can do this, asking doesn't hurt, right? (I know, some will argue that this leads to the person being asked to make a snap decision which could be unfavorable....when asking, assure the person that there isn't a rush to a decision, then explain the benefits of caching for that person/park/WM lot).

I bolded the part that it appears your argument hinges on.

 

I believe that an unobtrusive, properly hidden cache would not cause the bannination that you fear. It is caches that are hidden improperly in places that clearly would require permission that are likely to cause bannination.

[+Team Cotati]

I agree there are places where asking permission isn't needed....but how does one determine this??

 

I'd say any park having a cache....BUT, that's not always the case (and placing a cache in the wrong park could spell big trouble for caching). Maybe all cemeteries?? Well, no....some are privately owned...but how would one know this???

 

So my thought on this...how do you TRULY know you can place a cache w/o asking?? A gut feeling qualify? Because you feel you have the right?? Just let me know where the line gets drawn!!

The frisbee rule. Sure geocaching isn't they same a tossing a frisbee but the idea of placing a cache without asking permission is roughly equivalent to tossing a frisbee without asking permission. Unless there is a sign that says no frisbee, most would be comfortable tossing a frisbee in a public park without first getting permission. Tossing a frisbee on private property will depend a lot on how others are using that property. For example, you might toss a frisbee in a large open space in a industrial park or the quad in a private university, and maybe even in the far corner of the Wal*Mart parking lot. In many cases you might realize that you should ask first but you toss the frisbee anyhow since the property owner is most likely simply going to ask you leave and toss your frisbee somewhere else. Nobody gets arrested for frisbee tossing. You probably should take into consideration the differences between geocaching and frisbee tossing. On one hand, the public might not be aware of geocaching, walking around staring at a handheld electronic device and looking under lamppost skirts might look suspicious (especially at night). On the other hand, you may be in an out in just a few minutes unlike the frisbee players so you might not be noticed at all.

 

And so long as you take your "frisbee" with you, no one will care. Leave the "frisbee" there for your fellow "frisbee" throwers to use whenever the mood strikes them...........that might be a different story. You know, from the property owner's viewpoint.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Team Cotati

[+sbell111]

Welcome back to page 2.

[Mushtang]

I mean, if you already feel there is a good chance you can do this, asking doesn't hurt, right?

It's the same reason that I won't ask permission to play Frisbee in a park when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to hike across public land when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to drive around the back of Walmart to take a shortcut to another store, when I feel there's a good chance I can.

 

If you feel that you should ask permission to do things that you feel you can do anyway, go right ahead. I've got better things to do. I'll save my asking permission for things that I feel I couldn't, or shouldn't, do without permission.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I mean, if you already feel there is a good chance you can do this, asking doesn't hurt, right?

It's the same reason that I won't ask permission to play Frisbee in a park when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to hike across public land when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to drive around the back of Walmart to take a shortcut to another store, when I feel there's a good chance I can.

 

If you feel that you should ask permission to do things that you feel you can do anyway, go right ahead. I've got better things to do. I'll save my asking permission for things that I feel I couldn't, or shouldn't, do without permission.

Still didn't answer the question...You can SAY you will ask IF and WHEN you feel you must...maybe the landowner feels differently. But again, how would you know without asking? I guess if you get a ticket or worse, you'll have figured that wasn't the place to "play frisbee". You're right, I'll simply ask since it doesn't waste much more time to look up a phone number, seek out a land manager etc. In the end, I'll KNOW I have permission while you're still guessing! You see, maybe YOU weren't the first to throw a frisbee in the WM lot. Maybe the last person wasn't sooo nice and made trouble while out throwing that innocent frisbee, got the manager upset and he gets even more upset when you start playing YOUR game....but again, how would you know??

 

It's much like my plane trip last night...I ASKED if I could use my GPS while flying instead of just assuming I could...the flight crew not only gave permission, but they also gave me a quick tour of the cockpit, I had a talk with the captain and crew and the crew even came to check out the progress during the flight. The flight crew might not have been so "nice" about it had I not asked...but we'll never know! Better safe than sorry is my thought! Same idea with the land owners...make nice, make friends!

 

btw...the frisbee goes home at the end of the day....caching is a bit different than a game of frisbee.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[+sbell111]

Still didn't answer the question...You can SAY you will ask IF and WHEN you feel you must...maybe the landowner feels differently. But again, how would you know without asking? I guess if you get a ticket or worse, you'll have figured that wasn't the place to "play frisbee". You're right, I'll simply ask since it doesn't waste much more time to look up a phone number, seek out a land manager etc. In the end, I'll KNOW I have permission while you're still guessing! You see, maybe YOU weren't the first to throw a frisbee in the WM lot. Maybe the last person wasn't sooo nice and made trouble while out throwing that innocent frisbee, got the manager upset and he gets even more upset when you start playing YOUR game....but again, how would you know??

I don't know that I would have permission even if I had asked and it was granted.

 

For instance, seven years ago, when I hid 'Great Caesar's Ghost', I had permission. The person I received permission from is long gone. His replacement is long gone, and I suspect that his replacement might not be there any more. If the current guy finds out about my cache, he might blow a gasket and forbid any more caches from being placed in the area. It actually makes no difference that I recieved permission years ago, or not.

It's much like my plane trip last night...I ASKED if I could use my GPS while flying instead of just assuming I could...the flight crew not only gave permission, but they also gave me a quick tour of the cockpit, I had a talk with the captain and crew and the crew even came to check out the progress during the flight. The flight crew might not have been so "nice" about it had I not asked...but we'll never know! Better safe than sorry is my thought! Same idea with the land owners...make nice, make friends!

 

btw...the frisbee goes home at the end of the day....caching is a bit different than a game of frisbee.

First, I'm certain that the 'tour' took place at the gate with the jet bridge still in place. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that policies would not have allowed it to happen.

 

Second, I simply check the inflight magazine. If it says 'no GPS', mine stays in my carryon. If it allows GPS or doesn't address it, I use mine and feel quite happy about it. Funny, this is the best analogy for the permission issue I think that I've ever come across. It's an innocuous activity that, if not disallowed, I assume that it's OK.

Edited January 24, 2008 by sbell111

[+Team Cotati]

I mean, if you already feel there is a good chance you can do this, asking doesn't hurt, right?

It's the same reason that I won't ask permission to play Frisbee in a park when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to hike across public land when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to drive around the back of Walmart to take a shortcut to another store, when I feel there's a good chance I can.

 

If you feel that you should ask permission to do things that you feel you can do anyway, go right ahead. I've got better things to do. I'll save my asking permission for things that I feel I couldn't, or shouldn't, do without permission.

Still didn't answer the question...You can SAY you will ask IF and WHEN you feel you must...maybe the landowner feels differently. But again, how would you know without asking? I guess if you get a ticket or worse, you'll have figured that wasn't the place to "play frisbee". You're right, I'll simply ask since it doesn't waste much more time to look up a phone number, seek out a land manager etc. In the end, I'll KNOW I have permission while you're still guessing! You see, maybe YOU weren't the first to throw a frisbee in the WM lot. Maybe the last person wasn't sooo nice and made trouble while out throwing that innocent frisbee, got the manager upset and he gets even more upset when you start playing YOUR game....but again, how would you know??

 

It's much like my plane trip last night...I ASKED if I could use my GPS while flying instead of just assuming I could...the flight crew not only gave permission, but they also gave me a quick tour of the cockpit, I had a talk with the captain and crew and the crew even came to check out the progress during the flight. The flight crew might not have been so "nice" about it had I not asked...but we'll never know! Better safe than sorry is my thought! Same idea with the land owners...make nice, make friends!

 

btw...the frisbee goes home at the end of the day....caching is a bit different than a game of frisbee.

 

The only thing that you can safely say about this is that for some geocachers out there, the property owners opinion doesn't really count for much. Of course that isn't true for THEIR property, just the property of others who happen to own relatively large pieces of it.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Team Cotati

[Mushtang]

I mean, if you already feel there is a good chance you can do this, asking doesn't hurt, right?

It's the same reason that I won't ask permission to play Frisbee in a park when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to hike across public land when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to drive around the back of Walmart to take a shortcut to another store, when I feel there's a good chance I can.

 

If you feel that you should ask permission to do things that you feel you can do anyway, go right ahead. I've got better things to do. I'll save my asking permission for things that I feel I couldn't, or shouldn't, do without permission.

Still didn't answer the question...You can SAY you will ask IF and WHEN you feel you must...maybe the landowner feels differently. But again, how would you know without asking? I guess if you get a ticket or worse, you'll have figured that wasn't the place to "play frisbee". You're right, I'll simply ask since it doesn't waste much more time to look up a phone number, seek out a land manager etc. In the end, I'll KNOW I have permission while you're still guessing! You see, maybe YOU weren't the first to throw a frisbee in the WM lot. Maybe the last person wasn't sooo nice and made trouble while out throwing that innocent frisbee, got the manager upset and he gets even more upset when you start playing YOUR game....but again, how would you know??

Do you seek permission for everything you do in life? When you go hiking, do you seek permission before you go? When you play Frisbee in a park, do you seek permission before you play?

 

You already have permission to do these things without asking. Right?

 

It's much like my plane trip last night...I ASKED if I could use my GPS while flying instead of just assuming I could...the flight crew not only gave permission, but they also gave me a quick tour of the cockpit, I had a talk with the captain and crew and the crew even came to check out the progress during the flight. The flight crew might not have been so "nice" about it had I not asked...but we'll never know! Better safe than sorry is my thought! Same idea with the land owners...make nice, make friends!

Would you ask permission to use an iPod on the plane?

 

btw...the frisbee goes home at the end of the day....caching is a bit different than a game of frisbee.

Did your GPS go home with you at the end of the flight???

 

This is a pretty weak argument too. The Frisbee is a game piece that stays in the park during the duration of the game. So is the geocache. When the game is over, I'll go pick up my game piece.

[+Team Cotati]

I mean, if you already feel there is a good chance you can do this, asking doesn't hurt, right?

It's the same reason that I won't ask permission to play Frisbee in a park when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to hike across public land when I feel there's a good chance I can.

I won't ask permission to drive around the back of Walmart to take a shortcut to another store, when I feel there's a good chance I can.

 

If you feel that you should ask permission to do things that you feel you can do anyway, go right ahead. I've got better things to do. I'll save my asking permission for things that I feel I couldn't, or shouldn't, do without permission.

Still didn't answer the question...You can SAY you will ask IF and WHEN you feel you must...maybe the landowner feels differently. But again, how would you know without asking? I guess if you get a ticket or worse, you'll have figured that wasn't the place to "play frisbee". You're right, I'll simply ask since it doesn't waste much more time to look up a phone number, seek out a land manager etc. In the end, I'll KNOW I have permission while you're still guessing! You see, maybe YOU weren't the first to throw a frisbee in the WM lot. Maybe the last person wasn't sooo nice and made trouble while out throwing that innocent frisbee, got the manager upset and he gets even more upset when you start playing YOUR game....but again, how would you know??

Do you seek permission for everything you do in life? When you go hiking, do you seek permission before you go? When you play Frisbee in a park, do you seek permission before you play?

 

You already have permission to do these things without asking. Right?

 

It's much like my plane trip last night...I ASKED if I could use my GPS while flying instead of just assuming I could...the flight crew not only gave permission, but they also gave me a quick tour of the cockpit, I had a talk with the captain and crew and the crew even came to check out the progress during the flight. The flight crew might not have been so "nice" about it had I not asked...but we'll never know! Better safe than sorry is my thought! Same idea with the land owners...make nice, make friends!

Would you ask permission to use an iPod on the plane?

 

btw...the frisbee goes home at the end of the day....caching is a bit different than a game of frisbee.

Did your GPS go home with you at the end of the flight???

 

This is a pretty weak argument too. The Frisbee is a game piece that stays in the park during the duration of the game. So is the geocache. When the game is over, I'll go pick up my game piece.

 

Trust me, if the store management had employees who you knew were routinely and visibly 'patrolling' the parking lot and general grounds using the same deligence as a flight attendant, you'd see one heckofalot less Wal-Mart skirt lifters. Wal-Mart parking lot security and airline security are afterall quite similar.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Team Cotati

[+Rockin Roddy]

Do you seek permission for everything you do in life? When you go hiking, do you seek permission before you go? When you play Frisbee in a park, do you seek permission before you play?

 

I don't know...do you just assume any trail is for mountain biking? Do you assume the trail is always open? Around here, there's a nice little bird sanctuary. Half the year, you can go out and use the land, the other half...better stay out or you'll be in trouble (fines and possible jail time according to the info I've seen). One side of the sanctuary is posted, but a mile down the road it isn't... Now, across the road, the same land area is state game (hunting and fishing allowed)...should I assume that's fair land?? (it isn't!)

 

Would you ask permission to use an iPod on the plane?

 

Does the iPod receive?? NO! Would you use your PHONE on a plane??

 

This is a pretty weak argument too. The Frisbee is a game piece that stays in the park during the duration of the game. So is the geocache. When the game is over, I'll go pick up my game piece.

Weak argument? Yours seems a bit weaker! The frisbee goes home that day, not a year or more later. That frisbee won't be considered trash, a bomb or any other thing since it will go home at the end of the day (or be put away if staying over night). Did my GPS go home...YEP! Didn't leave a bit of scrap, no trail left no trace except my money trail. Can that be said about all caches?? NOPE!

[Mushtang]

Would you ask permission to use an iPod on the plane?

 

Does the iPod receive?? NO! Would you use your PHONE on a plane??

So the reason you don't ask to use an iPod is because it doesn't receive. Would you ask permission to use a calculator?

 

I wouldn't use my phone on a plane because it's clear that they're not allowed. This goes way back to my earlier post suggesting that the folks on your side of the debate either don't understand what we're saying, or you're intentionally using straw men to argue against a point we're not making.

 

For the record, in black and white (again), I'm NOT suggesting that we go hide caches wherever the heck we want to, and expect that nobody can do anything about it. That would be ridiculous.

 

In SOME places you don't need any additional permission because you can feel comfortable that it's okay to hide a cache. In other places you most definitely need to have express permission of the owner/manager/HMFIC or you're breaking guidelines of hiding a cache. We're just not in agreement which one of those categories an LPC fits in.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Does anyone else find the title of this thread ironic? "Quick Question"

[+Rockin Roddy]

Would you ask permission to use an iPod on the plane?

 

Does the iPod receive?? NO! Would you use your PHONE on a plane??

So the reason you don't ask to use an iPod is because it doesn't receive. Would you ask permission to use a calculator?

 

I wouldn't use my phone on a plane because it's clear that they're not allowed. This goes way back to my earlier post suggesting that the folks on your side of the debate either don't understand what we're saying, or you're intentionally using straw men to argue against a point we're not making.

 

For the record, in black and white (again), I'm NOT suggesting that we go hide caches wherever the heck we want to, and expect that nobody can do anything about it. That would be ridiculous.

 

In SOME places you don't need any additional permission because you can feel comfortable that it's okay to hide a cache. In other places you most definitely need to have express permission of the owner/manager/HMFIC or you're breaking guidelines of hiding a cache. We're just not in agreement which one of those categories an LPC fits in.

 

This might be news to you (maybe not), but your GPS IS a receiver, just like a phone! So, you say you wouldn't use your phone because you know better? Not sure why you'd compare your GPS to a calculator or Ipod (and NO, I can hear just fine. The crew announces when you can use your Ipod...or calc...or...ever hear them say you can use your phone??)

 

This goes to the boldened part: SOME LPCs might be fine (in a park or such), if it's on PRIVATE property (which a parking lot certainly is), I'd ask just to be sure...you don't have to, I don't care. I do wish you'd state express permission on the cache page if you have it though...if not, I'd skip it (well, I'd skip MOST of these really, but I do find them on rare occasions)...this is a courtesy to the cachers who come after your hide!! (you, your and you're....blah blah blah etc)

[+ReadyOrNot]

Next time you stop to get gas, look at the warnings. "NO CELL PHONES". The myth busters proved that to be a bunch of crapola, so should you still not use your cell phone when fueling, just because it says not to, even though there is no risk?

 

You need to determine for yourselves if you think you need permission. I go by the "Public property is MINE (and yours)", therefore I can get permission from myself to place the cache. If it's on private property, permission should always be obtained.

[Mushtang]

This might be news to you (maybe not), but your GPS IS a receiver, just like a phone!

A GPS Receiver is a receiver? No way! What does it being a receiver matter when it comes to whether or not you'd ask permission to use it?

 

So, you say you wouldn't use your phone because you know better? Not sure why you'd compare your GPS to a calculator or Ipod (and NO, I can hear just fine. The crew announces when you can use your Ipod...or calc...or...ever hear them say you can use your phone??)

I've never once heard them state it's okay to turn on your calculators, and you're the one that brought up the phone.

 

You're missing the point, and focusing on the fact that the GPS and cell phones are receivers (I'm not sure what that has to do with anything). The reason I say that I know better than to use a cell phone is because they expressly mention cell phones as not to be used during flight. My point about the iPod and the calculator was to find out if you specifically ASKED PERMISSION to use these items on a plane. You probably don't. Yet you made such a big point to brag that you asked if you could use your GPS. Why ask permission to use your GPS but not your calculator or your iPod?

 

This goes to the boldened part: SOME LPCs might be fine (in a park or such), if it's on PRIVATE property (which a parking lot certainly is), I'd ask just to be sure...you don't have to, I don't care. I do wish you'd state express permission on the cache page if you have it though...if not, I'd skip it (well, I'd skip MOST of these really, but I do find them on rare occasions)...this is a courtesy to the cachers who come after your hide!! (you, your and you're....blah blah blah etc)

If you feel you want to ask, just to be sure, then I definitely think you should.

 

There are some things in life that you do, which you don't need to ask permission for.

[+Too Tall John]

BTW, are there any caches under the bridge?

Since a troll can be defined as someone who will chum the waters with...insults...and inflammatory tidbits hoping that someone...will take the bait," wouldn't an unsolicited question such as the one quoted above be considered trolling?

Perhaps, but I've come to realize that certain posters really, really enjoy trolling and will work hard at ratcheting up the angst level in threads. I feel that their hard work should be recognized.

[+scuba dude]

Calm down sbell, in case you didn't know, I don't own a gun, or a knife, or bow or even a club other than a golf club. I think my dad is a bit different though. And yes, you make a mistake and trespass on our course and you run a GOOD risk of being held by gunpoint if needed, but the gun WILL be present. Not US doing anything wrong, but we WILL protect our property. You find that disturbing? Don't trepass at our course. I should also add my dad lives at the course...right where he can see every bit of it from his "lookout"!

 

Oh, we're not alone in that stance around here!!

 

My using myself and a gun as an example....there are MANY places where people have guns readily available and aren't afraid to use them (Texas comes to mind right off). Assuming you have right to use could risk a confrontation with one of those people, I'm just pointing that possibility out!

 

I've been following this thread so far with mild amusement.

 

Just want to point something to you that you MIGHT want to share with your "father." Presentation of deadly force (producing or even picking up a gun) is illegal if the "tresspasser" isn't threatening the life or health of anyone.

 

Edit - this has become a pointless, personal thread with some trolling thrown in since the post I quoteed above. As soon as I became interested, the trolls came out. Funny how the same people seem to be thought of as trolls by many, yet nothing is done....

 

SD

Edited January 24, 2008 by scuba dude

[+sbell111]

Do you seek permission for everything you do in life? When you go hiking, do you seek permission before you go? When you play Frisbee in a park, do you seek permission before you play?

I don't know...do you just assume any trail is for mountain biking? Do you assume the trail is always open? Around here, there's a nice little bird sanctuary. Half the year, you can go out and use the land, the other half...better stay out or you'll be in trouble (fines and possible jail time according to the info I've seen). One side of the sanctuary is posted, but a mile down the road it isn't... Now, across the road, the same land area is state game (hunting and fishing allowed)...should I assume that's fair land?? (it isn't!)

Would you ask permission to use an iPod on the plane?

Does the iPod receive?? NO! Would you use your PHONE on a plane??

No one has stated that you should enter land that is posted. Why do you keep making this type of analogy? It is way off base. Edited January 24, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

... This might be news to you (maybe not), but your GPS IS a receiver, just like a phone! So, you say you wouldn't use your phone because you know better? Not sure why you'd compare your GPS to a calculator or Ipod (and NO, I can hear just fine. The crew announces when you can use your Ipod...or calc...or...ever hear them say you can use your phone??)

Phones aren't verboten because of their ability to receive a signal.

[+Team Cotati]

Does anyone else find the title of this thread ironic? "Quick Question"

 

No.

[Clan Riffster]

Presentation of deadly force (producing or even picking up a gun) is illegal if the "tresspasser" isn't threatening the life or health of anyone.

Depends on the state. In Florida, a property owner has the right to detain, by whatever means necessary, a trespasser on their property.

[Clan Riffster]

You already have permission to do these things without asking. Right?

Apparently some straws have a lower drag coefficient than others, making them harder to grasp.

Roddy, Geocaching, in and of itself, is a legal, benign activity. Kinda like hiking. If you are in a place you are allowed to be, performing a task which you are allowed to perform, why would you feel the need to ask anyone for permission? On a similar note, since caching involves activity on both the hider and the seeker's part, do you ask for permission before you go searching for WM caches?

[+Rockin Roddy]

A GPS Receiver is a receiver? No way! What does it being a receiver matter when it comes to whether or not you'd ask permission to use it?

Ummmm...because the RECEIVER can interfere with the plane...which is the reason the phone isn't allowed. Yes, I did bring up the phone (a receiver), which is far different from a calc or Ipod....those don't interfere since they don't receive!

 

You're missing the point, and focusing on the fact that the GPS and cell phones are receivers (I'm not sure what that has to do with anything). The reason I say that I know better than to use a cell phone is because they expressly mention cell phones as not to be used during flight. My point about the iPod and the calculator was to find out if you specifically ASKED PERMISSION to use these items on a plane. You probably don't. Yet you made such a big point to brag that you asked if you could use your GPS. Why ask permission to use your GPS but not your calculator or your iPod?

 

No, you missed MY point which is that the GPS is the same as a phone in that it receives...this being why you aren't allowde to use it unlike YOUR examples which is comparing apples and oranges. You NEED permission to use the GPS unlike the calc or Ipod. That permission MIGHT be in the in-flight mag (which it wasn't in this case) or maybe one should ASK before assuming.

 

Just want to point something to you that you MIGHT want to share with your "father." Presentation of deadly force (producing or even picking up a gun) is illegal if the "tresspasser" isn't threatening the life or health of anyone.

 

Yeah, someone else thought they knew what was what and lived out of state. Let me just say it happened more than once and it happened TO an LEO who then lost his job Believe it or not, I don't care...it happened!

 

You need to determine for yourselves if you think you need permission. I go by the "Public property is MINE (and yours)", therefore I can get permission from myself to place the cache. If it's on private property, permission should always be obtained.

 

Yeah, that's what people keep saying...but a WM parking lot isn't public property, nor are most parks. If you don't believe me, try making your own rules and seeing what you can get away with in one some time!

 

Depends on the state. In Florida, a property owner has the right to detain, by whatever means necessary, a trespasser on their property

Exactly Clan, while not the law here, try determining if a person trespassing is a threat or not in the dark. Since there isn't any housing nearby, there's no reason for ANYONE to be on our property and we WILL protect it!

 

Apparently some straws have a lower drag coefficient than others, making them harder to grasp.

Roddy, Geocaching, in and of itself, is a legal, benign activity. Kinda like hiking. If you are in a place you are allowed to be, performing a task which you are allowed to perform, why would you feel the need to ask anyone for permission?

Depends upon the park. As I said, not all trails allow biking, not all trails allow horses, not all land allows metal detecting or use for whatever...there's examples above! Since caching is much different than hiking (you don't hike up and around GZ making spur trails and leaving behind a container...usually), different rules MIGHT apply (just ask someone who lost the use of their "public" land...it's MUCH easier to work with the PTB than fight with them after the fact).

 

On a similar note, since caching involves activity on both the hider and the seeker's part, do you ask for permission before you go searching for WM caches

I BELIEVE it's the cache OWNERS responsibility to assure their visitors are safe and legal...if I question it, I won't do it!! (since some owners think they own all the lands).

 

I've said it a few times, some places ARE fine to cache on w/o asking permission. Private land isn't one of them IMHO!

[Mushtang]

the GPS is the same as a phone in that it receives...this being why you aren't allowde to use it unlike YOUR examples which is comparing apples and oranges.

I can't argue with that.

 

Seriously, I tried, and my brain hurt, so I gave up.

[+scuba dude]

the GPS is the same as a phone in that it receives...this being why you aren't allowde to use it unlike YOUR examples which is comparing apples and oranges.

I can't argue with that.

 

Seriously, I tried, and my brain hurt, so I gave up.

 

No, no, no, no. I can't believe you are really that dense. A RECEIVER can do nothing to affect an airplane or anything else. It's becuase all cell phones TRANSMIT a locator signal for area towers to pickup. This is what could, possibly, maybe (but has never been proven) interfer with avionics of a craft in flight.

 

Edited January 25, 2008 by scuba dude

[Mushtang]

the GPS is the same as a phone in that it receives...this being why you aren't allowde to use it unlike YOUR examples which is comparing apples and oranges.

I can't argue with that.

 

Seriously, I tried, and my brain hurt, so I gave up.

 

No, no, no, no. I can't believe you are really that dense. A RECEIVER can do nothing to affect an airplane or anything else. It's becuase all cell phones TRANSMIT a locator signal for area towers to pickup. This is what could, possibly, maybe (but has never been proven) interfer with avionics of a craft in flight.

 

I hope you're not calling ME dense. I knew the difference between receiving and transmitting, which is why I couldn't argue with it without my brain hurting. There were just so many things wrong with his argument I was overloaded.

[+scuba dude]

Depends on the state. In Florida, a property owner has the right to detain, by whatever means necessary, a trespasser on their property

Exactly Clan, while not the law here, try determining if a person trespassing is a threat or not in the dark. Since there isn't any housing nearby, there's no reason for ANYONE to be on our property and we WILL protect it!

 

 

Here's the laymans wording of YOUR law...

 

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — The state House signed off on legislation Tuesday aimed at fortifying and clarifying self-defense rights in Michigan.

 

The bills would allow people to use deadly force, with no duty to retreat, if they reasonably think they face imminent death, great bodily harm or sexual assault. They could use deadly force on their property or anywhere they have a legal right to be.

 

The legislation also would protect people from civil lawsuits if they have used force in self-defense.

 

Please stop changing your arguments. Someone driving through your father's golf course during the day, and someone in your backyard in the middle of the night are two completely seperate arguments.

 

Prove that you can present deadly force for simple tresspass by citing state statutes. You can't. I dare you to prove one of your hair-brained, ignorant comments with proof.

 

Just like a GPS is not allowed on a plain becuase it recieves..... sheesh.....

Edited January 25, 2008 by scuba dude

[Clan Riffster]

Seriously, I tried, and my brain hurt, so I gave up.

Reminds me of when I try solving puzzles.

[+Renegade Knight]

...OK....but let's say you are throwing that frisbee in a place where you THINK you can, only to have the park ranger/land owner/WM manager/etc come out and raise a stink? ...

 

If I think I'm allowed why would I ask? If someone comes out and makes a stink I say "whoops sorry about that" and get on with life. If it's my neibhbor who's bitching about frisbee in the park I'll assess their authority and act appropriately.

 

What happens if they come out to make a stink and I turn them on to caching and we hook up the next weekend have a good time and become best friends? "What if" is a fun game we can all play.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Does the iPod receive?? NO! Would you use your PHONE on a plane??...

 

iPod touch does recieve. Cell phones receive and transmit. GPS receives. All electronics generate electronic interference which is regulated by the FCC.

 

The FCC allows airlines to decide if they allow or don't allow GPS usage but the FCC has determined that the GPS doesn't cause a problem.

 

Yes I would use my phone on a plane. THat's normally allowed when on the ground after landing and just before taxiing to for take off. Various folks in flight 93 used their phone's without permission and entirely appropriately.

 

Once I went with some friends to a hot spring. Clothing optional. Someone tossed out a glow stick. someone else caught it and tossed it t someone else. Everyone took to playing catch in a giant circle. Nobody asked, it just worked. If a ranger walked up we would have tossed them the glow stick. Sometimes things are just fine and it's ok to leave them be.

[+Renegade Knight]

....I BELIEVE it's the cache OWNERS responsibility to assure their visitors are safe and legal......

 

As an owner I won't accept that responsibility. I can't control my finders. They could be stark raving loonies who should be locked up and who will attack the next seeker. What I can tell you is that I did manage to place that cache with no fuss. I can only assure you that finding the cache without a hassle can be done. Not that you will succeed.

[+Rockin Roddy]

the GPS is the same as a phone in that it receives...this being why you aren't allowde to use it unlike YOUR examples which is comparing apples and oranges.

I can't argue with that.

 

Seriously, I tried, and my brain hurt, so I gave up.

 

No, no, no, no. I can't believe you are really that dense. A RECEIVER can do nothing to affect an airplane or anything else. It's becuase all cell phones TRANSMIT a locator signal for area towers to pickup. This is what could, possibly, maybe (but has never been proven) interfer with avionics of a craft in flight.

 

Gee Scuba, sorry some of us aren't as smart as you...but you seem to forget the rules of the forums. Name calling (which I've seen you do a few times in the last day) are not allowed...you CAN read the guidelines...right? I KNOW the phones aren't allowed. I also KNOW that GPS units MIGHT be allowed, which means one should ASK if they have concern...I did and I did! If you don't want to, don't. Just don't get all whiney when you are told to not use it (I know this has happened too...KNOW). Unlike a silly calculator or Ipod (although RK says the new one recieves...haven't heard that, but then, I'm not an Ipod owner, a calculator owner or most other electronic device owner) which doesn't bother the planes electronics (or they'd not TELL you you can use them in-flight...right???), apparently a phone or other receiving device (which was what I was told on the plane just yesterday, so if you NEED to name call, please call the airlines) WILL. I'm GUESSING (since I haven't the brains of SC or Mushtang) this to be why you are told NOT to use your phone...but again, this is merely what I was told while on the plane.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Depends on the state. In Florida, a property owner has the right to detain, by whatever means necessary, a trespasser on their property

Exactly Clan, while not the law here, try determining if a person trespassing is a threat or not in the dark. Since there isn't any housing nearby, there's no reason for ANYONE to be on our property and we WILL protect it!

 

 

Here's the laymans wording of YOUR law...

 

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — The state House signed off on legislation Tuesday aimed at fortifying and clarifying self-defense rights in Michigan.

 

The bills would allow people to use deadly force, with no duty to retreat, if they reasonably think they face imminent death, great bodily harm or sexual assault. They could use deadly force on their property or anywhere they have a legal right to be.

 

The legislation also would protect people from civil lawsuits if they have used force in self-defense.

 

Please stop changing your arguments. Someone driving through your father's golf course during the day, and someone in your backyard in the middle of the night are two completely seperate arguments.

 

Prove that you can present deadly force for simple tresspass by citing state statutes. You can't. I dare you to prove one of your hair-brained, ignorant comments with proof.

 

Just like a GPS is not allowed on a plain becuase it recieves..... sheesh.....

Gee SD, you're so smart...where did you see ANYTHING about daytime or night time? It's best to know what you're talking about before becoming insultive, makes you look bad. I DEFY you to prove ME wrong...and that statute you quoted proves my point exactly! You have a PM.

 

RK, you got it right when you said that the airlines are the ones who decide whether you can or can't use a GPS, this is why I asked (after reading the in-flight mag first) instaed of just assuming. Sure, they'd do nothing more than make you put it away, but instead of risking that and being sneaky (possibly trying to hide my actions), I asked and was then treated to a tour. Same as the hides. If you ask before just doing, I'm sure that more times than not, you'll get friendly conversation and possibly even what you want (to place a hide) I believe it best to make friends of property owners instead of fighting with them...but that's just me!

 

Also, RK...I meant it was the cache owner's responsibility to assure the AREA was safe and legal for use. I also wouldn't be responsible for cachers who are clumsy or just not prepared (you should cache with Tod...he's a walking danger zone). Placing a cache where it's illegal or unsafe (not a cliff or anything like that, I'm talking hazards as electrical or mechanical etc), is irresponsible and could give caching a black eye. THIS is what I meant by my comment!

 

Now...what was the topic again??

[+sbell111]

No, you missed MY point which is that the GPS is the same as a phone in that it receives...

Ummmm...because the RECEIVER can interfere with the plane...which is the reason the phone isn't allowed. Yes, I did bring up the phone (a receiver), which is far different from a calc or Ipod....those don't interfere since they don't receive!

Did you read what you typed? If so, you should do a quick search on this topic. Some really smart people laid out why phones aren't allowed and why some airlines don't allow GPSrs. Beyond that, I would only mention that if what you posted were true, all airlines would forbid the use of GPSrs.

Just want to point something to you that you MIGHT want to share with your "father." Presentation of deadly force (producing or even picking up a gun) is illegal if the "tresspasser" isn't threatening the life or health of anyone.

Yeah, someone else thought they knew what was what and lived out of state. Let me just say it happened more than once and it happened TO an LEO who then lost his job Believe it or not, I don't care...it happened!

I get a choice??? I'll take not.

 

Seriously, I was the 'person from out of state' to which you just referred. I also posted the relevent laws from your state to support my position. Clearly, you didn't take a look at them or you are choosing to ignore them to bull on with your position.

while not the law here, try determining if a person trespassing is a threat or not in the dark. Since there isn't any housing nearby, there's no reason for ANYONE to be on our property and we WILL protect it!

I see. You are admitting that your actions are against the law, but are going to continue them until you get busted. Strangely, you are willing to break those laws, but are adament that permission be received before anyone goes near a lamp post in WalMart's parking lot.

 

That dichotomy is very strange, to me.

On a similar note, since caching involves activity on both the hider and the seeker's part, do you ask for permission before you go searching for WM caches

I BELIEVE it's the cache OWNERS responsibility to assure their visitors are safe and legal

As a cache owner, I can't gaurantee that your actions will be safe and legal. Based on your 'shotgun' posts, I can almost guarantee that some finders may be neither safe, or legal. How should I explain that to the land manager? Edited January 25, 2008 by sbell111

[+sbell111]

... I also KNOW that GPS units MIGHT be allowed, which means one should ASK if they have concern...

I just thought that this little bit was important, I'm not sure why. Edited January 25, 2008 by sbell111

[Mushtang]

Unlike a silly calculator or Ipod (although RK says the new one recieves...haven't heard that, but then, I'm not an Ipod owner, a calculator owner or most other electronic device owner) which doesn't bother the planes electronics (or they'd not TELL you you can use them in-flight...right???), apparently a phone or other receiving device WILL.

You're still hung up on WHY the devices may or may not be allowed and are missing my point about permission. But somehow you've managed to prove my point anyway.

 

Again, my point is that YOU, Rockin Roddy, would not ask to use a calculator on a plane. It doesn't matter why you believe them to be harmless, just that you do. So you see, you actually DON'T ask permission for everything you do.

 

RK, SBell, and myself (and others) believe that geocaching in some areas is also harmless, is also not worth asking permission to do because the (land managers, owners, captain of the plane, etc) wouldn't mind. We also agree that this is NOT the case EVERYWHERE and agree that if you want to hide a cache where you think it would be iffy, or maybe not allowed, or you just feel like covering all your bases, you should ask.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Unlike a silly calculator or Ipod (although RK says the new one recieves...haven't heard that, but then, I'm not an Ipod owner, a calculator owner or most other electronic device owner) which doesn't bother the planes electronics (or they'd not TELL you you can use them in-flight...right???), apparently a phone or other receiving device WILL.

You're still hung up on WHY the devices may or may not be allowed and are missing my point about permission. But somehow you've managed to prove my point anyway.

 

Again, my point is that YOU, Rockin Roddy, would not ask to use a calculator on a plane. It doesn't matter why you believe them to be harmless, just that you do. So you see, you actually DON'T ask permission for everything you do.

 

RK, SBell, and myself (and others) believe that geocaching in some areas is also harmless, is also not worth asking permission to do because the (land managers, owners, captain of the plane, etc) wouldn't mind. We also agree that this is NOT the case EVERYWHERE and agree that if you want to hide a cache where you think it would be iffy, or maybe not allowed, or you just feel like covering all your bases, you should ask.

 

You keep saying the same thing I say yet, you still wish to think you are proving me wrong on something....strange. Also strange how you fixate on that calculator...odd!

 

Mushtang...have you ever flown?? When you get to a certain elevation, the crew comes on and TELLS you you can turn on certain electronic devices, but NOT a phone. I wouldn't ask about a cacl simply because they ALREADY gave permission.....

 

I'll ask again...what was this topic about??

Edited January 25, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[+sbell111]

It was about LPMs. I don't know why you keep going on about airplanes.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

It was about LPMs. I don't know why you keep going on about airplanes.

Might as well debate airplanes, or zebras for that matter, makes as much sense as anything else in this thread!

[+sbell111]

It was about LPMs. I don't know why you keep going on about airplanes.

Might as well debate airplanes, or zebras for that matter, makes as much sense as anything else in this thread!

Don't even get me started on zebras.

[+Rockin Roddy]

It was about LPMs. I don't know why you keep going on about airplanes.

Might as well debate airplanes, or zebras for that matter, makes as much sense as anything else in this thread!

[Mushtang]

You keep saying the same thing I say yet, you still wish to think you are proving me wrong on something....strange. Also strange how you fixate on that calculator...odd!

Yes, I'm sure it's odd for those that can't see past the object and grasp the point. Okay, let me try again using something other than an electronic device. Please focus on the permission, and not on the object. I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't ask permission to use a ballpoint pen on a plane, right? They're not talked about by the crew, they're not listed in the flight mags, yet you wouldn't stop by the Captain on your way into the plane to ask permission to use one.

 

Again, my point is that YOU, Rockin Roddy, would not ask to use a ballpoint pen on a plane. It doesn't matter why you believe them to be harmless, just that you do. So you see, you actually DON'T ask permission for everything you do.

 

RK, SBell, and myself (and others) believe that geocaching in some areas is also harmless, is also not worth asking permission to do because the (land managers, owners, captain of the plane, etc) wouldn't mind. We also agree that this is NOT the case EVERYWHERE and agree that if you want to hide a cache where you think it would be iffy, or maybe not allowed, or you just feel like covering all your bases, you should ask.

 

Mushtang...have you ever flown??

Yes, I'm a Silver Medallion flyer with Delta. I fly a LOT.

 

I'll ask again...what was this topic about??

If you need to get express permission for hiding a cache at Walmart.

[+Rockin Roddy]

You keep saying the same thing I say yet, you still wish to think you are proving me wrong on something....strange. Also strange how you fixate on that calculator...odd!

Yes, I'm sure it's odd for those that can't see past the object and grasp the point. Okay, let me try again using something other than an electronic device. Please focus on the permission, and not on the object. I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't ask permission to use a ballpoint pen on a plane, right? They're not talked about by the crew, they're not listed in the flight mags, yet you wouldn't stop by the Captain on your way into the plane to ask permission to use one.

 

Again, my point is that YOU, Rockin Roddy, would not ask to use a ballpoint pen on a plane. It doesn't matter why you believe them to be harmless, just that you do. So you see, you actually DON'T ask permission for everything you do.

 

RK, SBell, and myself (and others) believe that geocaching in some areas is also harmless, is also not worth asking permission to do because the (land managers, owners, captain of the plane, etc) wouldn't mind. We also agree that this is NOT the case EVERYWHERE and agree that if you want to hide a cache where you think it would be iffy, or maybe not allowed, or you just feel like covering all your bases, you should ask.

 

Mushtang...have you ever flown??

Yes, I'm a Silver Medallion flyer with Delta. I fly a LOT.

 

I'll ask again...what was this topic about??

If you need to get express permission for hiding a cache at Walmart.

 

Then why do you fixate on anything on a plane? I said I asked permission to use my GPS and that's been your main focus since. You even go on in depth as to what can be used and when I'd ask permission. I find I'm answering your plane questions more than anyone is focusing on the topic here.

 

So...anything at all about the WW lot permission, or should we talk about whether I ask about closing my eyes on a plane next??

[+sbell111]

Or we could just move on with our lives.

[Mushtang]

Then why do you fixate on anything on a plane? I said I asked permission to use my GPS and that's been your main focus since. You even go on in depth as to what can be used and when I'd ask permission. I find I'm answering your plane questions more than anyone is focusing on the topic here.

In most intelligent conversations and debates the concept of using examples to illustrate a point is often used. Otherwise after the original question is answered all you're left with is back and forth, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't, yes it is, no it isn't. Apparently you think you're allowed to use the permission on a plane as an example to prove your point, until you realize it's doing just the opposite, and then you call for a halt on all examples using a plane.

 

So...anything at all about the WW lot permission, or should we talk about whether I ask about closing my eyes on a plane next??

If you're insisting that we only stick to the original question and a direct answer, then I'll say (again) that you don't always have to ask for express permission to hide a cache at Walmart since you can often go with the adequate permission that already exists.