Bad Swag!

[+TrailGators]

hmmmmmm.. Where to start....

2. Just like separation of church and state is a good idea for government, I don't believe caches should contain any solicitations for business, religion or politics. Period. Not by the owner of the cache, and not by visitors to it. As far as the gift cards for FTF, that is a gift, not a solicitation.

The constitution clearly states that government shall not create a law establishing a religion NOR PREVENTING THE FREE EXPRESSION OF A RELIGION. Everyone seems to forget the bolded part. Not sure what this "Separation of church and state" thing is... Maybe you should read the constitution.

Good post RoN! I think a lot of people need to refresh their memories! Edited December 28, 2007 by TrailGators

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

hmmmmmm.. Where to start....

2. Just like separation of church and state is a good idea for government, I don't believe caches should contain any solicitations for business, religion or politics. Period. Not by the owner of the cache, and not by visitors to it. As far as the gift cards for FTF, that is a gift, not a solicitation.

The constitution clearly states that government shall not create a law establishing a religion NOR PREVENTING THE FREE EXPRESSION OF A RELIGION. Everyone seems to forget the bolded part. Not sure what this "Separation of church and state" thing is... Maybe you should read the constitution.

Good post RoN! I think a lot of people need to refresh their memories!

Or their understanding of Constitutional Law! The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.

[+ReadyOrNot]

hmmmmmm.. Where to start....

2. Just like separation of church and state is a good idea for government, I don't believe caches should contain any solicitations for business, religion or politics. Period. Not by the owner of the cache, and not by visitors to it. As far as the gift cards for FTF, that is a gift, not a solicitation.

The constitution clearly states that government shall not create a law establishing a religion NOR PREVENTING THE FREE EXPRESSION OF A RELIGION. Everyone seems to forget the bolded part. Not sure what this "Separation of church and state" thing is... Maybe you should read the constitution.

Good post RoN! I think a lot of people need to refresh their memories!

Or their understanding of Constitutional Law! The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.

 

Good, then you can explain to me how my kid singing "O come all ye faithful" in school violates the 1st amendment? Perhaps my child singing somehow enacts a law establishing a religion... I still haven't figured that one out yet. -- This feels like its going somewhere bad Perhaps we should get back on topic.

 

"Groundspeak shall make no law respecting the establishment of trading items or prohibiting the free placement thereof"

Edited December 28, 2007 by ReadyOrNot

[+TrailGators]

It is my understanding that the guidelines prohibit caches from promoting an agenda. I believe this primarily means promoting the agenda on the cache listing (website) or on the cache itself. So if someone owns a cache and someone else puts something in that that cache, the owner of the cache is not promoting anything. The swag inside is very weakly promoting something but there is no guideline against that unless it gets out of hand. Does this sound right?

Edited December 28, 2007 by TrailGators

[+TrailGators]

oops

Edited December 28, 2007 by TrailGators

[+egami]

It is my understanding that the guidelines prohibit caches from promoting an agenda. I believe this primarily means promoting the agenda on the cache listing (website) or on the cache itself. So if someone owns a cache and someone else puts something in that that cache, the owner of the cache is not promoting anything. The swag inside is very weakly promoting something but there is no guideline against that unless it gets out of hand. Does this sound right?

 

That's the way I interpret it which is why I stated I view the practice as an "end around". That's just my opinion.

[+TrailGators]

It is my understanding that the guidelines prohibit caches from promoting an agenda. I believe this primarily means promoting the agenda on the cache listing (website) or on the cache itself. So if someone owns a cache and someone else puts something in that that cache, the owner of the cache is not promoting anything. The swag inside is very weakly promoting something but there is no guideline against that unless it gets out of hand. Does this sound right?

 

That's the way I interpret it which is why I stated I view the practice as an "end around". That's just my opinion.

When there's an end around then you can bring the safety up to make the play. Have the safety grab that swag and dump it. Edited December 28, 2007 by TrailGators

[+egami]

I like runner Cover 2 depending on the cacher. Put pressure on the GPS and try to force a DNF...

[+TrailGators]

I like running Cover 2 depending on the cacher. Put pressure on the GPS and try to force a DNF...

[+geowizerd]

1. I indeed was tempted to just "trash out" those cards, but it was not my cache, so I didn't think I had the right to decide what stays or goes from somebody else's cache. Now, when I place my own caches, that kind of thing will be gone every time I do maintenence.

 

You can trash out WHATEVER you want. Just put something else in that's better.

 

No, I don't believe I can. It's just my opinion, but I'd consider it disrespectful to start doing maintenence on someone else's cache, unless either they asked me to, or it was in dire need of it.

 

2. Just like separation of church and state is a good idea for government, I don't believe caches should contain any solicitations for business, religion or politics. Period. Not by the owner of the cache, and not by visitors to it. As far as the gift cards for FTF, that is a gift, not a solicitation.

 

The constitution clearly states that government shall not create a law establishing a religion NOR PREVENTING THE FREE EXPRESSION OF A RELIGION. Everyone seems to forget the bolded part. Not sure what this "Separation of church and state" thing is... Maybe you should read the constitution.

 

Where in my post did I mention the constitution? I merely said the separation pf church and state was a good idea.

 

The actual "separation of church and state thing", as you call it, came from a letter from Jefferson to to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. He writes "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

 

4. I'm happy this thread has generated some very interesting and thought-provoking discussions!

 

It's always interesting when people start telling others what they can leave and what they can't

 

Who did that? Certainly wasn't me. I merely stated my OPINION of what I thought is not acceptable (solicitations) to be placed in caches, and what I would do with them in MY caches. Once again, that is why I didn't remove it from someone else's cache, their opinion may be different than mine. It's also always interesting when someone starts chastizing someone for things they didn't say!

[+ReadyOrNot]

It's also always interesting when someone starts chastizing someone for things they didn't say!

 

You won't take trash out of someone's cache, but you are very clear about what you think trash is in a cache. At least you are clear about your position. So when you run across a switch-blade knife in a cache, do you leave it in there and notify the cache owner? When you come across a pornographic magazine in a cache, do you leave it there and notify the owner to remove it? Everyone has a line that causes them to take action, which I'm sure you do also.

 

You have every right to take something and leave something else.. Where did you get the impression that you don't have that right? I have no problem with removing something from a cache and putting something better in it. If everyone did this, the swag is caches wouldn't be a bunch of crappy mcToys. ( or soggy business cards )

[+ncfinn]

My own personal opinion, nothing more:

We should all perform maintenance on all caches we find. Any time I find wet, stinky, spoiled swag I remove it, even if it is not my cache. A problem arises when deciding what is swag, what is trash.

 

I personally do not see what great harm comes from a business card. Say I was looking for a plumber and did not have one in mind. I would much rather call the one whose card I found in a cache than some other stranger I found in the yellow pages.

 

If indeed you are not allowed to advertise, then I guess leaving a business card is wrong. If that is your calling card, better black out your contact info.

 

What about discount coupons? Aren't they a form of advertising, too?

[+ReadyOrNot]

My own personal opinion, nothing more:

We should all perform maintenance on all caches we find. Any time I find wet, stinky, spoiled swag I remove it, even if it is not my cache. A problem arises when deciding what is swag, what is trash.

 

I personally do not see what great harm comes from a business card. Say I was looking for a plumber and did not have one in mind. I would much rather call the one whose card I found in a cache than some other stranger I found in the yellow pages.

 

If indeed you are not allowed to advertise, then I guess leaving a business card is wrong. If that is your calling card, better black out your contact info.

 

What about discount coupons? Aren't they a form of advertising, too?

 

Let's be real clear about this so everyone understands.

 

A cache owner cannot create a cache that solicits. The swag in a cache is not controlled by this rule.

 

That's not my opinion, that's fact

Edited December 28, 2007 by ReadyOrNot

[+Renegade Knight]

Caching Cards are 100% fine. They are a signature item.

Biz Cards are ok. They are not as good as a custom caching card, but they still serve as a sig item in a pinch.

Blatant use of the cache as a means of promoting, that's not kosher.

it can be hard to tell the differene between a Biz card as a calling card and a Biz card as a promotion.

[+Renegade Knight]

...1. I indeed was tempted to just "trash out" those cards, but it was not my cache, so I didn't think I had the right to decide what stays or goes from somebody else's cache. Now, when I place my own caches, that kind of thing will be gone every time I do maintenence....

 

I collect sig cards. As of this moment I don't have my own (can't photoshop for phisht). Still I don't think twice about taking one I don't have. It's a card, not gold pressed latnum. (can't spell that for phisht). Down the road, I'll have a card and won't care if someone takes one leaving nothing or throws away the soggy mess from a wet cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Good, then you can explain to me how my kid singing "O come all ye faithful" in school violates the 1st amendment? Perhaps my child singing somehow enacts a law establishing a religion... I still haven't figured that one out yet. -- ...

 

It doesn't. Instead it violates the loosey goosey guidelines on what "school disruption" is for which the penalty is expulsion. I know this because I had it waved in my face over my daughters art homework. Apparently homework that the principal deems unacceptable for reasons that he could not show me (dress code, disruption, and a diclinipary policy didn't speak to the depection of specific objects that are on display on FCC approved TV) is a clear violation of school policy on disruption of the school enviromenet subject to dicliplinary action and potentially explusion.

 

Watch that merriment. It can come back to bite you.

 

I wrote 5 pages of school admin jokes in the principals honor. Maybe I should leave those on cache calling cards around town. I think some of them are funny, and I can't be expelled.

 

Why can't a school admin sing "Joy to the world??" They have no joy to sing about. (stupid but it's the season).

[+geomann1]

...Good, then you can explain to me how my kid singing "O come all ye faithful" in school violates the 1st amendment? Perhaps my child singing somehow enacts a law establishing a religion... I still haven't figured that one out yet. -- ...

 

It doesn't. Instead it violates the loosey goosey guidelines on what "school disruption" is for which the penalty is expulsion. I know this because I had it waved in my face over my daughters art homework. Apparently homework that the principal deems unacceptable for reasons that he could not show me (dress code, disruption, and a diclinipary policy didn't speak to the depection of specific objects that are on display on FCC approved TV) is a clear violation of school policy on disruption of the school enviromenet subject to dicliplinary action and potentially explusion.

 

Watch that merriment. It can come back to bite you.

 

I wrote 5 pages of school admin jokes in the principals honor. Maybe I should leave those on cache calling cards around town. I think some of them are funny, and I can't be expelled.

 

Why can't a school admin sing "Joy to the world??" They have no joy to sing about. (stupid but it's the season).

 

But what if everyone did it????????

One sad observation about modern life is that there are many people out there who are not happy unless they are offended or can claim victim status. Another group, which seems to gravitate to government work, such as school administration or regulatory positions, become intoxicated with power to the point that they can't or won't make rational common-sense fair decisions (hence we have zero tolerance policies).

 

Returing to business cards. I think it is a low class act to put a business card in a cache, which would deter me from ever doing business with the person in question (in reality I wouldn't remember the name), but I wouldn't let it bother me nor would I take any action; I would just set the GPS for next cache.

[Mushtang]

Let's be real clear about this so everyone understands.

 

Geowizard having an opinion that caches shouldn't contain religious material is NOT the government trying to pass a law preventing the free expression of religion. Even if it were a Groundspeak rule that would forbid religious materials in caches, the constitution would have nothing to do with it.

 

That's not my opinion, that's fact

 

And before anyone says it... the 1st amendment doesn't give you the right to say anything you want in the forums (or while out caching, or while placing trade items in a cache, etc) either.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If you are leaving swag in a cache, it is common sense to contemplate how that swag might deal with things that around that cache, things like water and dirt. The reality is that paper has a life which is greatly shortened when exposed to certain elements.

 

Except that the cache should be keeping those elements out. Otherwise, in that regard, the log book is no better-off than the business cards.

 

 

Hey, business cards don't take up much space. I won't take them out of my cache, because they're part of it's heritage. They reflect upon the people who've visited. I don't dislike your business cards any more than I dislike you.

 

Incidentally, letterboxing, the predecessor to geocaching, was begun with people leaving their business cards inside a hidden bottle. That was before the use of a logbook.

[+larry739]

What about religious cards and tomes? I have seen quite a few of those in caches.

[+egami]

What about religious cards and tomes? I have seen quite a few of those in caches.

 

What about them? Ignore them, remove them or put your own in it sounds like to me. Religious, political, business...it would seem the nature of the object doesn't matter in regards to the solicitation rule in terms of cache content.

[+ReadyOrNot]

And before anyone says it... the 1st amendment doesn't give you the right to say anything you want in the forums (or while out caching, or while placing trade items in a cache, etc) either.

 

You've almost got it The 1st amendment DOES give me the right to say whatever I want in these forum (that is not illegal) and put anything I want in a cache (that is not illegal)...

 

BUT

 

The 1st amendment also gives the folks at Groundspeak the right to ban my account forever.. We both have rights.

 

I have the right to put a business card in a cache and YOU have a right to remove it. And you also have the right to whine about it in the forums.. And I have the right to take an opposing view of your view in the forums. And we both have the right to start taking pot shots at each other in the forums.. And the moderators then have the right to suspend both of us from the forums.

[4wheelin_fool]

 

You've almost got it The 1st amendment DOES give me the right to say whatever I want in these forum

 

The 1st amendment limits the government's role in restricting speech in public places.

 

Groundspeak is not the government, and this is not a public place.

[+ReadyOrNot]

 

You've almost got it The 1st amendment DOES give me the right to say whatever I want in these forum

 

The 1st amendment limits the government's role in restricting speech in public places.

 

Groundspeak is not the government, and this is not a public place.

 

Did you read my entire post or just taking things out of context? I can post whatever I want. That doesn't mean there aren't going to be consequences. Free speech doesn't mean no consequences. If you want proof of that, go talk to Imus.

[+blackcat96]

I forgot what the original post had to say. Wasn't it something about doing business playing cards between caches until Jesus shows up and reads the Constitution to the school administrators making the kids sing "Faith" by George Michael, and then George Jefferson taking everybody out for Ben & Franklin's ice cream on the way home?

Let me know if I understand the overall intent of this topic.

 

bc96

[+MaplessInSeattle]

I forgot what the original post had to say. Wasn't it something about doing business playing cards between caches until Jesus shows up and reads the Constitution to the school administrators making the kids sing "Faith" by George Michael, and then George Jefferson taking everybody out for Ben & Franklin's ice cream on the way home?

Let me know if I understand the overall intent of this topic.

 

bc96

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

hmmmmmm.. Where to start....

2. Just like separation of church and state is a good idea for government, I don't believe caches should contain any solicitations for business, religion or politics. Period. Not by the owner of the cache, and not by visitors to it. As far as the gift cards for FTF, that is a gift, not a solicitation.

The constitution clearly states that government shall not create a law establishing a religion NOR PREVENTING THE FREE EXPRESSION OF A RELIGION. Everyone seems to forget the bolded part. Not sure what this "Separation of church and state" thing is... Maybe you should read the constitution.

Good post RoN! I think a lot of people need to refresh their memories!

Or their understanding of Constitutional Law! The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.

 

Good, then you can explain to me how my kid singing "O come all ye faithful" in school violates the 1st amendment? Perhaps my child singing somehow enacts a law establishing a religion... I still haven't figured that one out yet. -- This feels like its going somewhere bad Perhaps we should get back on topic.

 

"Groundspeak shall make no law respecting the establishment of trading items or prohibiting the free placement thereof"

Amazing... amazing! Totally amazing how some threads can get so far off-topic and so filled with petty nit-picking angst!

[+tabulator32]

Its not necessarily off-topic. They are trying to get down to the foundation of the thought process involved with what should or should not be allowed in a cache. It is the elemental freedom of speech rights which are in question, as is supposed.

[+blackcat96]

Is anybody else getting the banner ad from Google offering to sell business cards? Classic ad placement!

bc96

 

only 37 days to go

[+tabulator32]

Is anybody else getting the banner ad from Google offering to sell business cards? Classic ad placement!

bc96

 

only 37 days to go

 

Google has made an art of their topic-related ad placement.

 

I often glance at the ads just to see how closely they match the conversation here in the forums. Very often, they are dead-on.

 

Discuss a specific GPS? Find websites selling them in the google ads. Discuss geocaching vehicles? Car dealerships galore.

 

My favorite was a discussion about the best type of mouse to buy (for a computer) and there popped up separate ads for tickets to Disney World and an online pet shop.

[+geowizerd]

It's also always interesting when someone starts chastizing someone for things they didn't say!

 

You won't take trash out of someone's cache, but you are very clear about what you think trash is in a cache. At least you are clear about your position. So when you run across a switch-blade knife in a cache, do you leave it in there and notify the cache owner? When you come across a pornographic magazine in a cache, do you leave it there and notify the owner to remove it? Everyone has a line that causes them to take action, which I'm sure you do also.

 

You have every right to take something and leave something else.. Where did you get the impression that you don't have that right? I have no problem with removing something from a cache and putting something better in it. If everyone did this, the swag is caches wouldn't be a bunch of crappy mcToys. ( or soggy business cards )

 

Okay, you've got some damned good points there. I see what you're saying, and you're right.

[+geowizerd]

I forgot what the original post had to say. Wasn't it something about doing business playing cards between caches until Jesus shows up and reads the Constitution to the school administrators making the kids sing "Faith" by George Michael, and then George Jefferson taking everybody out for Ben & Franklin's ice cream on the way home?

Let me know if I understand the overall intent of this topic.

 

bc96

 

Uhh, yeah! That was it... I'm glad somebody remembered!

[+TexasGringo]

I don't care what they put in my caches...anything but that lousy Bubble Goo (that crap you blow bubbles with).

 

Maybe someone else needs some kinda help and a card in my cache might be just what they are looking for. My wife hopes I find a card to a Psychiatrist...In fact, she would prefer that you just bring them to me...sooner the better.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Drooling_Mongoloid

[+ReZappers]

I think if someone feels that strongly about promoting their business, then their business name should be on some useful or fun swag, not just a business card. There are tons of fun goodies given out at trade shows with business names on them that can be useful despite being a way to advertise.

[Mushtang]

And before anyone says it... the 1st amendment doesn't give you the right to say anything you want in the forums (or while out caching, or while placing trade items in a cache, etc) either.

 

You've almost got it The 1st amendment DOES give me the right to say whatever I want in these forum (that is not illegal) and put anything I want in a cache (that is not illegal)...

 

BUT

 

The 1st amendment also gives the folks at Groundspeak the right to ban my account forever.. We both have rights.

 

I have the right to put a business card in a cache and YOU have a right to remove it. And you also have the right to whine about it in the forums.. And I have the right to take an opposing view of your view in the forums. And we both have the right to start taking pot shots at each other in the forums.. And the moderators then have the right to suspend both of us from the forums.

Nope, I had it right the first time. The 1st amendment does NOT give you the right to say whatever you want. Your rights are not granted by the government, your rights exist simply because you're human. You have the right to say whatever you want and it's NOT the 1st amendment that grants it to you. It's a very Democrat thing to believe that our rights are given to us by the government.

 

4 Wheeling Fool also has it right. The 1st amendment keeps our government from creating laws that will limit your right of free speech.

 

A long time ago, before our constitution was written, the ancestors of our founding fathers lived in a place where you weren't allowed to bad mouth the country, the government, the king, etc. If TPTB heard about someone saying things they didn't like, they had the power to silence them (killing some loud mouth was the easiest way). So when our country was created, the founding fathers thought it would be good if we didn't have to worry about such things if we felt like speaking out against the people in charge (or anything else), so they wrote an amendment to the constitution keeping that from happening.

 

So feel free to call Dubya anything you want, and thanks to the 1st amendment you don't have to worry about our government trying to put a stop to it, But as you pointed out, that doesn't mean other people won't be able to tell you what they think about what you're saying too.

[+TexasGringo]

***So feel free to call Dubya anything you want***

 

I think I limited to only 5000 characters here......

[Mushtang]

***So feel free to call Dubya anything you want***

 

I think I limited to only 5000 characters here......

That's okay, no need to skimp on the apostrophe M then. You've got plenty of room.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Nope, I had it right the first time. The 1st amendment does NOT give you the right to say whatever you want. Your rights are not granted by the government, your rights exist simply because you're human.

 

I am sorry... Could you kindly point me to where I said my rights were given to me by the government??? My rights are not given to me because I'm human, they are given to me by God...

 

Does anyone know where it says that?

[+geowizerd]

So feel free to call Dubya anything you want, and thanks to the 1st amendment you don't have to worry about our government trying to put a stop to it, But as you pointed out, that doesn't mean other people won't be able to tell you what they think about what you're saying too.

 

Sure, go ahead and call him anything you want. They might even give you a free hunting trip.... with Dick Cheney!!!

[+ReadyOrNot]

So feel free to call Dubya anything you want, and thanks to the 1st amendment you don't have to worry about our government trying to put a stop to it, But as you pointed out, that doesn't mean other people won't be able to tell you what they think about what you're saying too.

 

Sure, go ahead and call him anything you want. They might even give you a free hunting trip.... with Dick Cheney!!!

 

And the folks at Groundspeak then retain the right to send this thread on the same said hunting trip if it continues down this path

[+Atticka]

Ok, here's a thought.

 

As a business owner I thought it would be cool to use some of my available resources to build an awesome cache (good sized ammo box, water proof log book/pen, cool swag, geocoin, etc...).

 

Hiding place would be far from civilization, a challenge to reach.

 

Would it be wrong to include "This cache sponsored by........" with a web link somewhere in the cache? Am I breaking any rules? Would this piss people off?

 

Seems to me that if this is done tastefully and respectfully no one would have an issue.

Edited December 31, 2007 by Atticka

[+ReadyOrNot]

Ok, here's a thought.

 

As a business owner I thought it would be cool to use some of my available resources to build an awesome cache (good sized ammo box, water proof log book/pen, cool swag, geocoin, etc...).

 

Hiding place would be far from civilization, a challenge to reach.

 

Would it be wrong to include "This cache sponsored by........" with a web link somewhere in the cache? Am I breaking any rules? Would this piss people off?

 

Seems to me that if this is done tastefully and respectfully no one would have an issue.

 

I believe that would be against the guidelines, because the "Cache" itself would be promoting an agenda, regardless of whether the agenda is noble or not. You could always ask Groundspeak for permission to place the web address on the cache page.

[Mushtang]

Nope, I had it right the first time. The 1st amendment does NOT give you the right to say whatever you want. Your rights are not granted by the government, your rights exist simply because you're human.

 

I am sorry... Could you kindly point me to where I said my rights were given to me by the government???

Sure, right here...

 

The 1st amendment DOES give me the right ...

[+ReadyOrNot]

Nope, I had it right the first time. The 1st amendment does NOT give you the right to say whatever you want. Your rights are not granted by the government, your rights exist simply because you're human.

 

I am sorry... Could you kindly point me to where I said my rights were given to me by the government???

Sure, right here...

 

The 1st amendment DOES give me the right ...

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

My rights are granted by God and guaranteed by the 1st amendment... Is that better? BTW - What guarantees that my freedoms will not be taken away by entities other than the government? By you, for instance? LAW - which is created by government, governed by the constitution.

Edited December 31, 2007 by ReadyOrNot

[Mushtang]

Ok, here's a thought.

 

As a business owner I thought it would be cool to use some of my available resources to build an awesome cache (good sized ammo box, water proof log book/pen, cool swag, geocoin, etc...).

 

Hiding place would be far from civilization, a challenge to reach.

 

Would it be wrong to include "This cache sponsored by........" with a web link somewhere in the cache? Am I breaking any rules? Would this piss people off?

 

Seems to me that if this is done tastefully and respectfully no one would have an issue.

It would be against the guidelines as a commercial cache, and probably wouldn't be listed. It's not because the site doesn't like your business and doesn't think you'll be respectful, it's that they don't know your business nor do they want to.

 

If they let your commercial cache be listed then they have to list everyone's commercial cache, and the folks that run this site don't want to be the judge of what kinds of businesses are okay to list, and which agendas are okay to promote.

 

For instance, I'm sure we'd all be okay with an Outdoor Store cache, but some people might be a little offended if a movie rental store gave away free rentals if they realized there was a non-family friendly section of movies in that store. A cache that promotes a bar with adult dancers would really offend the family friendly minded members, and this is definitely a family friendly site. Think who might not want to see a cache that promoted a satanic bookstore! Etc.

 

To keep from having to defend their decisions and to enter into any bickering wars with people, they've just decided to eliminate all commercial caches and any cache with any agenda. A Red Cross cache promotes giving money or blood (but not actually accepting either at the cache) wouldn't be allowed.

 

The only exceptions are 1) when the agenda or commercial tie in originates at the site (like the Project APE caches) or 2) if you were to contact the site and get special permission. Both are extremely rare.

[Mushtang]

Nope, I had it right the first time. The 1st amendment does NOT give you the right to say whatever you want. Your rights are not granted by the government, your rights exist simply because you're human.

 

I am sorry... Could you kindly point me to where I said my rights were given to me by the government???

Sure, right here...

 

The 1st amendment DOES give me the right ...

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

 

My rights are granted by God and guaranteed by the 1st amendment... Is that better?

I don't know that you've got it yet. Your rights are yours (wherever you believe they originate from) and the 1st amendment only exists to keep our government from taking away the ones listed in it (free speech among them). It doesn't guarantee anything other than the government won't pass a law to remove those rights.

 

BTW - What guarantees that my freedoms will not be taken away by entities other than the government?

That would be our brave men and women in the armed forces. The radical islamic terrorists would love to see not only your freedoms taken away, but your life as well. I hope neither one happens, and I'm glad that I live in a country strong enough (so far) to protect us both.

 

By you, for instance?

The same. Also, if I tried to take away your freedoms, and I don't think I've tried to do that yet, the easiest way to stop me would be to point it out to me and I'll stop.

 

LAW - which is created by government, governed by the constitution.

I'm sure that's one definition of law. I'm not sure what your point is by using that definition.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Your rights are yours (wherever you believe they originate from) and the 1st amendment only exists to keep our government from taking away the ones listed in it (free speech among them). It doesn't guarantee anything other than the government won't pass a law to remove those rights.

 

LAW - which is created by government, governed by the constitution.

I'm sure that's one definition of law. I'm not sure what your point is by using that definition.

 

My only point in using that definition is that if I decide to stand up and say that "Mushtang uses 'H's excessively", the government cannot tell me I can't do that and if YOU try to stop me from doing it, there are law's, enacted by the government that will prevent you from preventing me from saying it. So in a way, the government does guarantee those rights as well as prevents laws from being established to limit speech, etc. etc.

 

And like you said, if a foreign entity tries to limit our speech, our military will then guarantee our freedoms. So I agree, my rights don't come from the government, but our government certainly has a responsibility to guarantee our freedoms, beyond not creating laws limiting them.

 

Groundspeak also has rights. They run this forum and get to decide what is said and what isn't said on the forums. Free speech does not guarantee that I will not suffer consequences for exercising my free speech.

 

BTW - You use H's a bit haphazardly in my opinion

Edited December 31, 2007 by ReadyOrNot

[+Atticka]

Cool, thanks for the heads up.

 

I'm still going to "fund" an awesome cache, minus the sponsoring note. I'm sure I can hide it in my expenses somewhere

[Mushtang]

Your rights are yours (wherever you believe they originate from) and the 1st amendment only exists to keep our government from taking away the ones listed in it (free speech among them). It doesn't guarantee anything other than the government won't pass a law to remove those rights.

 

LAW - which is created by government, governed by the constitution.

I'm sure that's one definition of law. I'm not sure what your point is by using that definition.

 

My only point in using that definition is that if I decide to stand up and say that "Mushtang uses 'H's excessively", the government cannot tell me I can't do that

I disahgree thhat your definition of LAW makes that point at ahhhhl.

 

and if YOU try to stop me from doing it, there are law's, enacted by the government that will prevent you from preventing me from saying it.

Thhat only depends on HHOW I attempt to stop you. H. There are completely legal ways to keep someone from saying stupid things.

 

So in a way, the government does guarantee those rights

Ahhhhhhhhh, but your ability to stand up and talk smack about my letters is only protected from the government by the first amendment. There will be no laws passed to keep you from dissing my spelling if you whant to. There are laws (not the 1st amendment) that keep me from doing certain things to stop you (if I wanted to).

 

H

 

as well as prevents laws from being established to limit speech, etc. etc.

By the government. The constitution has the Bill Of Rights in an effort to keep the government from taking too muchhh control of our lives away from us.

 

And like you said, if a foreign entity tries to limit our speech, our military will then guarantee our freedoms. So I agree, my rights don't come from the government, but our government certainly has a responsibility to guarantee our freedoms, beyond not creating laws limiting them.

I thhink we'll agree on this one. H. HH.

 

Groundspeak also has rights. They run this forum and get to decide what is said and what isn't said on the forums. Free speech does not guarantee that I will not suffer consequences for exercising my free speech.

The only way I would disagree with this is if you then suggested that the "free speech" you enjoy in the forums is somehow protected by the 1st amendment.

 

BTW - You use H's a bit haphazardly in my opinion

And you don't use enough spaces.

[+TeamJake2]

If it's trash it's trash, pack it out!

Edited January 2, 2008 by TeamJake2