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etrex vista hcx tripcomputer false results


freeday
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My Tripcomputer does have false TRIP ODOM

EDIT:

When running or walking in the wood (tree cover)

if there is clear sky both systems have the same trip odom

End of EDIT

 

Trip Odom (etrex HCX) = 8,32

Trip Odom (gpsmap 60csx) = 9,43

 

Saved .GPX on µSD shows 9,3 km for both systems!!!!!

That seems to be correct

 

 

Do anyone have the same problems.

 

 

The tripcomputer TRIP ODOM seems to have a problem.

 

.GPX is correct.

Edited by freeday
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I made several new checks:

 

Driving a car for 40 km and clear sky (no trees)

Both (gpsmap and etrex) have the SAME trip odom.

That is what i expected. - perfect!!

 

Running and hicking under clear sky (works perfect)

Running and hicking under tree cover (The ETREX VISTA HCX has a trip odom that is to small: 8,32 instead of 9,43)

 

I checked this for several times at different locations - with always the same result.

 

In my opinion it is a BUG of the HCX-unit. GARMIN please check the TRIP ODOM funktion of the HCX-units.

The .gpx seems to be ok. So it must be the type of adding meters to the internal trip odom.

 

Can anybody confirm this under tree cover conditions?

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The trip odometer on both my 60cx and vistaCX are always a bit higher than checking the distance in the tracklogs, but I've never noticed a difference quite that big.

Did you test it in the car under clear sky or also under tree cover?

 

My unit work perfect under clear sky.

But under tree cover the vista hcx trip odom is false (10% less than it should be).

The gpsmap 60csx is much better under tree cover with the trip odom.

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The trip odometer will always be different than the mapsource track length. One is measured/estimated by inaccurate satellite data between track points, the other by terrestrial/map data

Sorry - how does it work?

If i load Mapsource without a map (or a worldmap), there cannot be any terrestrial/map data.

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The trip odometer will always be different than the mapsource track length. One is measured/estimated by inaccurate satellite data between track points, the other by terrestrial/map data

Sorry - how does it work?

If i load Mapsource without a map (or a worldmap), there cannot be any terrestrial/map data.

 

Why would you do that? I guess if you don't have any maps you are SOL.

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Freeday wrote:My Tripcomputer does have false TRIP ODOM

When running or walking in the wood (tree cover)

if there is clear sky both systems have the same trip odom

Trip Odom (etrex HCX) = 8,32

Trip Odom (gpsmap 60csx) = 9,43

Saved .GPX on µSD shows 9,3 km for both systems!!!!!

That seems to be correct

Do anyone have the same problems.

The tripcomputer TRIP ODOM seems to have a problem.

 

Howdy!

I have been compairing an older Vista-C to my new Vista HCx.

In the car the odometer on clear sky views are very close.

The odometer readings while mountain biking have the Vista HCx a tenth or two shorter distance than the Vista-C.

Hiking is where I have noticed the largest difference.

The Vista HCx seems to cut corners much more than the Vista-C.

The tracklog of the Vista HCx will match the Vista-C's very closely except for slow hiking corners and sometimes it's a good match.

 

Comparing the two units; the micro SD card in the Vista HCx is it's biggest plus.

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The trip odometer will always be different than the mapsource track length. One is measured/estimated by inaccurate satellite data between track points, the other by terrestrial/map data

Sorry - how does it work?

If i load Mapsource without a map (or a worldmap), there cannot be any terrestrial/map data.

 

Why would you do that? I guess if you don't have any maps you are SOL.

I have maps - but your statement seems to be false.

In your opinion the distance depends on the map activated by mapsource - an that is false.

Edited by freeday
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Freeday wrote:My Tripcomputer does have false TRIP ODOM

When running or walking in the wood (tree cover)

if there is clear sky both systems have the same trip odom

Trip Odom (etrex HCX) = 8,32

Trip Odom (gpsmap 60csx) = 9,43

Saved .GPX on µSD shows 9,3 km for both systems!!!!!

That seems to be correct

Do anyone have the same problems.

The tripcomputer TRIP ODOM seems to have a problem.

 

Howdy!

I have been compairing an older Vista-C to my new Vista HCx.

In the car the odometer on clear sky views are very close.

The odometer readings while mountain biking have the Vista HCx a tenth or two shorter distance than the Vista-C.

Hiking is where I have noticed the largest difference.

The Vista HCx seems to cut corners much more than the Vista-C.

The tracklog of the Vista HCx will match the Vista-C's very closely except for slow hiking corners and sometimes it's a good match.

 

Comparing the two units; the micro SD card in the Vista HCx is it's biggest plus.

Nice, to hear that you have the same "features" <_<

As i compare the HCX with the gpsmap60CSX (and both units have the possibility to save data on µSD), it is interesting that both .GPX-Files have the same identical length.

But the HCX-trip dom is false - curious.

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a second guy in germany also tested it under tree cover with a (VISTA HCX / VISTA CX) and had nearly the same results.

RESULT: Under tree cover the VISTA HCX has a Trip odom bug.

 

Here is a grafik:

The HCX has a 8-12% shorter trip odom

31.07.2007_10:48:11_tabelle9999.gif

Edited by freeday
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Freeday wrote:My Tripcomputer does have false TRIP ODOM

When running or walking in the wood (tree cover)

if there is clear sky both systems have the same trip odom

Trip Odom (etrex HCX) = 8,32

Trip Odom (gpsmap 60csx) = 9,43

Saved .GPX on µSD shows 9,3 km for both systems!!!!!

That seems to be correct

Do anyone have the same problems.

The tripcomputer TRIP ODOM seems to have a problem.

 

Howdy!

I have been compairing an older Vista-C to my new Vista HCx.

In the car the odometer on clear sky views are very close.

The odometer readings while mountain biking have the Vista HCx a tenth or two shorter distance than the Vista-C.

Hiking is where I have noticed the largest difference.

The Vista HCx seems to cut corners much more than the Vista-C.

The tracklog of the Vista HCx will match the Vista-C's very closely except for slow hiking corners and sometimes it's a good match.

 

Comparing the two units; the micro SD card in the Vista HCx is it's biggest plus.

I'm in the same boat. My Legend C and HCX are within one meter of each other. My HCX seems to be even more sensitive then my 60CX indoors, however this is very difficult to quantify. The best thing about the new Legend however is the lack of ridiculous wandering the 60CX does when it is not moving. I hated watching the odometer slowly climb for no reason at all. I'm glad to see my HCX is as accurate as the older chipset in my Legend C in terms of distance tracking.

Edited by shaunknee
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The trip odometer will always be different than the mapsource track length. One is measured/estimated by inaccurate satellite data between track points, the other by terrestrial/map data

Sorry - how does it work?

If i load Mapsource without a map (or a worldmap), there cannot be any terrestrial/map data.

 

Why would you do that? I guess if you don't have any maps you are SOL.

I have maps - but your statement seems to be false.

In your opinion the distance depends on the map activated by mapsource - an that is false.

 

I said no such thing. Follow carefully:

 

I would expect the odometer reading to be in error on the + side giving a longer distance than a line on the map. Consider the case of a flat surface and a straight line ona a map between points A and B. If you were to walk that line with a gps the actual track would have zigs and zags making it a bit longer than the map line. The result should be an overstated distance and an understated speed in the odometer.

 

How does this reconcile with your tests?

Edited by Hiker2008
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While we're at it, anyone noticed that the new HCx is late when it's time to alert us to turn? The 1st alert is ok, plenty of time to go but the final alert ring a bit late and when it's time to turn it still show like 30 meters to go.

 

If a few agree I may submit it to Garmin.

Edited by Rhialto
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The best thing about the new Legend however is the lack of ridiculous wandering the 60CX does when it is not moving. I hated watching the odometer slowly climb for no reason at all.

 

Easy to fix that. Go to Main Menu / Setup / Marine / Make sure Speed Filter is set to auto.

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The trip odometer will always be different than the mapsource track length. One is measured/estimated by inaccurate satellite data between track points, the other by terrestrial/map data

Sorry - how does it work?

If i load Mapsource without a map (or a worldmap), there cannot be any terrestrial/map data.

 

Why would you do that? I guess if you don't have any maps you are SOL.

I have maps - but your statement seems to be false.

In your opinion the distance depends on the map activated by mapsource - an that is false.

 

I said no such thing. Follow carefully:

 

I would expect the odometer reading to be in error on the + side giving a longer distance than a line on the map. Consider the case of a flat surface and a straight line ona a map between points A and B. If you were to walk that line with a gps the actual track would have zigs and zags making it a bit longer than the map line. The result should be an overstated distance and an understated speed in the odometer.

 

How does this reconcile with your tests?

In your opinion the Trip odom should be longer and the gpx should be shorter?

 

But my test results were:

Trip Odom (etrex HCX) = 8,32

Trip Odom (gpsmap 60csx) = 9,43

Saved .GPX on µSD shows 9,3 km for both systems!!!!!

 

Yes, i emailed already to garmin.

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The trip odometer will always be different than the mapsource track length. One is measured/estimated by inaccurate satellite data between track points, the other by terrestrial/map data

Sorry - how does it work?

If i load Mapsource without a map (or a worldmap), there cannot be any terrestrial/map data.

 

Why would you do that? I guess if you don't have any maps you are SOL.

I have maps - but your statement seems to be false.

In your opinion the distance depends on the map activated by mapsource - an that is false.

 

I said no such thing. Follow carefully:

 

I would expect the odometer reading to be in error on the + side giving a longer distance than a line on the map. Consider the case of a flat surface and a straight line ona a map between points A and B. If you were to walk that line with a gps the actual track would have zigs and zags making it a bit longer than the map line. The result should be an overstated distance and an understated speed in the odometer.

 

How does this reconcile with your tests?

In your opinion the Trip odom should be longer and the gpx should be shorter?

 

But my test results were:

Trip Odom (etrex HCX) = 8,32

Trip Odom (gpsmap 60csx) = 9,43

Saved .GPX on µSD shows 9,3 km for both systems!!!!!

 

Yes, i emailed already to garmin.

 

I am saying that I expect the trip odom and the track to be longer than the actual distance? Have you been able to compare these two figures with the actual distance?

 

Most people would not log their tracks to sd card. What about comparing these tracks as gdb files?

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Does it make a difference if you change the track log interval setting to a more frequent setting.

No it doesn't

Seems that the hcx has a lot of 0km/h parts under tree cover.

The gpsmap does not have that 0km/h displayed so often.

 

EDIT: There was no LOST SIGNAL during measurement

Edited by freeday
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I don't know if this is the reason but I know that my Garmin Legend Cx will GUESS the distance (a straight line) you traveled and MPH between the time it loses the signal and the time it repicks back up the signal if the time hasn't been too much. I suspect when the H series is losing signal, it records the distance and MPH as zero. But when you download the gpx file, your software is calculating the distance using the saved track points.

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The best thing about the new Legend however is the lack of ridiculous wandering the 60CX does when it is not moving. I hated watching the odometer slowly climb for no reason at all.

 

Easy to fix that. Go to Main Menu / Setup / Marine / Make sure Speed Filter is set to auto.

 

Thanks for the hint. I was wrong the Legend HCX does wander when sitting still. Unfortunately the speed filter in marine doesn’t exist in the Etrex settings

Edited by shaunknee
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Thanks for the hint. I was wrong the Legend HCX does wander when sitting still. Unfortunately the speed filter in marine doesn’t exist in the Etrex settings

 

It sure does in my Legend Cx - On the Marine settings you should have ANCHOR ALARM, OFF COURSE ALARM, then SPEED FILTER which can be set to AUTO, USER OR OFF. Make sure it is AUTO.

 

If this doesn't exist in the H series, Garmin's got some major problems.

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Thanks for the hint. I was wrong the Legend HCX does wander when sitting still. Unfortunately the speed filter in marine doesn’t exist in the Etrex settings

 

It sure does in my Legend Cx - On the Marine settings you should have ANCHOR ALARM, OFF COURSE ALARM, then SPEED FILTER which can be set to AUTO, USER OR OFF. Make sure it is AUTO.

 

If this doesn't exist in the H series, Garmin's got some major problems.

 

My new Vista HCx does not have that setting under marine. It only has Anchor Alarm and Off Course.

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My new Vista HCx does not have that setting under marine. It only has Anchor Alarm and Off Course.

 

Ut oh......

 

If the unit can't detect when you are standing still, then a lot of features on the unit will be worthless like moving MPH, moving distance, trip odometer and the arrow bouncing around when you are standing still.

 

Let it sit, set the odometer to zero and see if it remains at zero or slowly moves. If it slowly moves, that's a real major bug in my book.

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My new Vista HCx does not have that setting under marine. It only has Anchor Alarm and Off Course.

 

Ut oh......

 

If the unit can't detect when you are standing still, then a lot of features on the unit will be worthless like moving MPH, moving distance, trip odometer and the arrow bouncing around when you are standing still.

 

Let it sit, set the odometer to zero and see if it remains at zero or slowly moves. If it slowly moves, that's a real major bug in my book.

 

I left it on for 20 minutes sitting on my desk and it didn't move. Should I try this test longer?

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The best thing about the new Legend however is the lack of ridiculous wandering the 60CX does when it is not moving. I hated watching the odometer slowly climb for no reason at all.

 

Easy to fix that. Go to Main Menu / Setup / Marine / Make sure Speed Filter is set to auto.

 

What software version are you running on your 60CSx ? With v3.30 I can't see an option for a speed filter ?

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My new Vista HCx does not have that setting under marine. It only has Anchor Alarm and Off Course.

 

Ut oh......

 

If the unit can't detect when you are standing still, then a lot of features on the unit will be worthless like moving MPH, moving distance, trip odometer and the arrow bouncing around when you are standing still.

 

Let it sit, set the odometer to zero and see if it remains at zero or slowly moves. If it slowly moves, that's a real major bug in my book.

 

I left it on for 20 minutes sitting on my desk and it didn't move. Should I try this test longer?

 

I think the "wandering" is from poor signal areas. When the HCX is in clear view of the sky the odometer drift is very low or zero. This is a big improvment over my 60CX which would drift even out in the open.

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The instantaneous GPS position will always "wander" a little bit. Hence, the ability to average a waypoint when you create it, increasing the accuracy of the waypoint. On the Vista HCx, you can do this when you mark a waypoint and select "Avg" and watch the estimated accuracy get better as you wait and the GPS gets more positions to average.

 

I suspect when the H series is losing signal, it records the distance and MPH as zero. But when you download the gpx file, your software is calculating the distance using the saved track points.

 

I believe this is right but is not unique to the H series. When my old Legend lost a signal (a relatively common occurrence), any distance covered during that period was not included in the odometer and neither the stopped not moving time changed. When it doesn't have a signal, it treats it as if the machine is off and doesn't do any recording. That's probably the same case for the H series. Notice that a new track log also starts when a signal is regained, whether due to a lost signal or the unit being powered down. It appears that the trip odometer records the equivalent of the sum of the track log distances since it was last reset.

 

As a quick check and comparison, today, I walked a 2.0 km route (route length on Mapsource). When I got home, the track length downloaded to Mapsource after my brief walk was 2.0 km and the trip odometer was something like 2.02 km (a difference less than the accuracy that Mapsource shows). I didn't specifically note the track length yesterday after walking the same route, but the trip odometer was showing something along the lines of 2.1 or 2.2 km (greater than the route length), although I did deviate a few metres off track to grab a coffee...

 

In short, in my humble opinion, I personally do not believe that there is a "bug" in the Vista HCx with respect to it wandering a little when you are standing still or with the trip odometer.

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..as i already mentioned multiple times:

When i did my recordings there WAS NEVER LOST SIGNAL.

So i do not know why always this lost signal is mentioned.

 

If i had any lost signal, i never would have said anything like bug.

 

Try yourself a walking trip under tree cover und you will see, that the trip odom is false. Whereas the .gpx is correct.

I could waste more time to find the reason but i thing as GARMIN already kows about the bug - it is now their job.

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The instantaneous GPS position will always "wander" a little bit. Hence, the ability to average a waypoint when you create it, increasing the accuracy of the waypoint. On the Vista HCx, you can do this when you mark a waypoint and select "Avg" and watch the estimated accuracy get better as you wait and the GPS gets more positions to average.

 

I suspect when the H series is losing signal, it records the distance and MPH as zero. But when you download the gpx file, your software is calculating the distance using the saved track points.

 

I believe this is right but is not unique to the H series. When my old Legend lost a signal (a relatively common occurrence), any distance covered during that period was not included in the odometer and neither the stopped not moving time changed. When it doesn't have a signal, it treats it as if the machine is off and doesn't do any recording. That's probably the same case for the H series. Notice that a new track log also starts when a signal is regained, whether due to a lost signal or the unit being powered down. It appears that the trip odometer records the equivalent of the sum of the track log distances since it was last reset.

 

As a quick check and comparison, today, I walked a 2.0 km route (route length on Mapsource). When I got home, the track length downloaded to Mapsource after my brief walk was 2.0 km and the trip odometer was something like 2.02 km (a difference less than the accuracy that Mapsource shows). I didn't specifically note the track length yesterday after walking the same route, but the trip odometer was showing something along the lines of 2.1 or 2.2 km (greater than the route length), although I did deviate a few metres off track to grab a coffee...

 

In short, in my humble opinion, I personally do not believe that there is a "bug" in the Vista HCx with respect to it wandering a little when you are standing still or with the trip odometer.

 

I totally agree with you. I would not view this as a bug since it is very minor. Averaging I’m sure would give a very accurate position. This HCX is a fantastic unit, a huge improvement over my Legend C which has performed very well over the past couple of years.

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..as i already mentioned multiple times:

When i did my recordings there WAS NEVER LOST SIGNAL.

 

How do you know the bug is not in the lost satellite communications notification?

I do not get any popup "lost satellite" under tree cover. (only inside a house)

(And i have have no typical records for lost signal in the log-file)

Edited by freeday
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This is a real bummer. I wanted to buy the vista HCX with its primary use for biking. If the trip odometer is not accurate im not so sure this is the unit for me.

 

Ditto.

 

What I want to see someone do is take their new H series unit out for a bike ride or walk. Stop for like 15 minutes, then finish the walk or ride. Then look at the trip computer screen for total time, moving time, and stopped time. If the stopped time is 15 minutes or around that, it isn't a problem. If it shows zero stopped time, it's a problem. I know on my unit, Legend Cx, if the Marine setting for Speed Filter is not set to AUTO, the unit won't calcuate any stopped time, it will have the same figure for moving time and total time. For a bicyclist like myself, that's critical information because it screws up the moving average MPH.

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..as i already mentioned multiple times:

When i did my recordings there WAS NEVER LOST SIGNAL.

 

How do you know the bug is not in the lost satellite communications notification?

I do not get any popup "lost satellite" under tree cover. (only inside a house)

(And i have have no typical records for lost signal in the log-file)

 

You should do your comparison without obstructions. If its not a signal problem then explain how the trip odometer knows you under a tree.

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Test with new firmware: Vista HCx v2.30

 

TripComputer: Trip ODOM: 13.0 (Vista HCX)

TripComputer: Trip ODOM: 13.6 (gpsmap60CSX)

 

.GPX TRIP-ODOM 13.4 (Vista HCX) !!!

.GPX TRIP-ODOM 13.4 (gpsmap60CSX) !!!

05.08.2007_16:50:28_unbenannt-1.gif

05.08.2007_16:50:45_unbenannt-2.gif

download both files as a zip from here:

http://upload2.net/page/download/A9tnnm1hM....4km--.zip.html

 

1) :blink:

Why does the Vista HCX show not 13.4km?

The gpsmap might show 13.6km because of wandering.

But 13.0km is to less.

 

2) :unsure:

Why is the .gpx-TripOdom ALWAYS absolutely exact on both systems (and i already made a couple of tests)

 

:blink:

So feel free to make your own opinion.

Edited by freeday
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You should do your comparison without obstructions. If its not a signal problem then explain how the trip odometer knows you under a tree.

Maybe it is a signal problem, but why is the .gpx correct

(The .gpx ist the automatically saved log on the µSD-Card)

And if i had a signal problem, why do i not get any Popup-alarm.

(The popup-alarm works fine if i really get "lost signal" - but i do not get any popup on the test-track.)

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You should do your comparison without obstructions. If its not a signal problem then explain how the trip odometer knows you under a tree.

Maybe it is a signal problem, but why is the .gpx correct

(The .gpx ist the automatically saved log on the µSD-Card)

And if i had a signal problem, why do i not get any Popup-alarm.

(The popup-alarm works fine if i really get "lost signal" - but i do not get any popup on the test-track.)

 

As I understand how these things work, the gpx file is getting its trip data from map data. In other words, its calculating distance using the long/lat of points A and B as found on the map loaded into your unit. The trip odometer is getting its information from the satellite data (a continuous real-time updating and reckoning). Thus the two distances are derived from two different sources. We shouldn't be surprised that they are different. But are they different correctly? That's why I think you should repeat the test without upstruction -- to eliminate the signal as a culprit.

 

Edit: I just read your other test afer update. Looks good to me.

Edited by Hiker2008
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...

As I understand how these things work, the gpx file is getting its trip data from map data. In other words, its calculating distance using the long/lat of points A and B as found on the map loaded into your unit.

...

.gpx-trip-length is always the same in Mapsource. Equal if no map is loaded in MS or a (routable) Map is loaded.

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...

As I understand how these things work, the gpx file is getting its trip data from map data. In other words, its calculating distance using the long/lat of points A and B as found on the map loaded into your unit.

...

.gpx-trip-length is always the same in Mapsource. Equal if no map is loaded in MS or a (routable) Map is loaded.

 

I got the same results today. I was out in Lake Ontario assisting a swim marshal. The swimmers covered 17.5 km, but the trip odom measured 14.7km. The track log shows the correct distance. The speed and moving time didn’t seem very accurate either on the trip page. We were moving about 3km/hr most of the way, just like a slow walk.

Edited by shaunknee
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...

As I understand how these things work, the gpx file is getting its trip data from map data. In other words, its calculating distance using the long/lat of points A and B as found on the map loaded into your unit.

...

.gpx-trip-length is always the same in Mapsource. Equal if no map is loaded in MS or a (routable) Map is loaded.

 

Right, but your gpx file is also on the sd card. The data for that gpx file would from the basemap or a map uploaded by MapSource. In other words, the trip odom IS NOT created from trackpoints like the gpx track is.

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...

As I understand how these things work, the gpx file is getting its trip data from map data. In other words, its calculating distance using the long/lat of points A and B as found on the map loaded into your unit.

...

.gpx-trip-length is always the same in Mapsource. Equal if no map is loaded in MS or a (routable) Map is loaded.

 

I got the same results today. I was out in Lake Ontario assisting a swim marshal. The swimmers covered 17.5 km, but the trip odom measured 14.7km. The track log shows the correct distance. The speed and moving time didn’t seem very accurate either on the trip page. We were moving about 3km/hr most of the way, just like a slow walk.

 

Interesting. I presume the 17.5mi was measured independently of gps. I wonder if its the low speed that's creating the error. All units will have less accuracy as distance/time gets very small. Maybe the HCx is not so accurate at slow speeds?

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...

As I understand how these things work, the gpx file is getting its trip data from map data. In other words, its calculating distance using the long/lat of points A and B as found on the map loaded into your unit.

...

.gpx-trip-length is always the same in Mapsource. Equal if no map is loaded in MS or a (routable) Map is loaded.

 

I got the same results today. I was out in Lake Ontario assisting a swim marshal. The swimmers covered 17.5 km, but the trip odom measured 14.7km. The track log shows the correct distance. The speed and moving time didn’t seem very accurate either on the trip page. We were moving about 3km/hr most of the way, just like a slow walk.

 

Interesting. I presume the 17.5mi was measured independently of gps. I wonder if its the low speed that's creating the error. All units will have less accuracy as distance/time gets very small. Maybe the HCx is not so accurate at slow speeds?

 

I compared it to a Legend CX on the Rescue boat we were working off. His odometer matched my track measurements. Several times the non H was showing speeds where mine was showing zero. This caused the discrepancy in "moving time" between the gpsr's

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