Why can I log an archived cache as found?

[+TerryDad2]

I noticed a couple of time found logs on caches after they have been archived. Just today, I logged a cache as found eventhough it was archived.

 

Shouldn't the website not allow new found logs on archived logs?

[Neos2]

I can think of at least two reasons:

 

1) I am going on a week long trip next week. If I find a cache on Monday and it is archived on Tuesday, but I don't get home to log it until Saturday, I'll still need to log the cache.

 

2) My son did some caching with us last year. He did not have his own account then, but we did include mention of him in our logs, and he did sign the logs. If he decides to open an account tomorrow, he'll still want to log those caches, even if they have been archived.

[Keystone]

People get behind on their logs. People change their account names and re-log, or teams split up into separate accounts and re-log. The site generally allows logs on archived caches except in rare circumstances.

[Neos2]

Make that three:

 

I find a cache and, in reading the cache page, I see that it was archived two years ago. Hey, the cache is still there. The owner hasn't logged in to gc for two years. We're talking litter now folks!

 

I am picking up the cache to get the litter out of there--and I am logging the cache because I did find it.

[+CO Admin]

Make that three:

 

I find a cache and, in reading the cache page, I see that it was archived two years ago. Hey, the cache is still there. The owner hasn't logged in to gc for two years. We're talking litter now folks!

 

I am picking up the cache to get the litter out of there--and I am logging the cache because I did find it.

 

So basically you just muggled a cache that might be listed on another service like Terracaching or Navacache? Or was listed on the owners personal web page?

Edited March 18, 2007 by CO Admin

[Neos2]

Oooh, yeah, I always forget about that! (blushing)

 

Well, I suppose I would check those listing services first and then ask around to see if anyone knows how to contact the owner. And contact the owner.

 

Although...

You can usually tell if that is the case because there are newer logs in the logbook than the last date on gc.

Edited March 18, 2007 by Neos2

[+Isonzo Karst]

Scenario 4 - multiple DNFs on cache, owner checks, can't find it either. Archives cache listing. Someone with a printout or out of date PQ hunts cache, finds it. Logs find. Owner contacts reviewer to unarchive.

 

( owner returns, hunts cache again, owner still can't find cache - owner contacts last finder and begs hints......

[+NightPilot]

Scenario 4 happened to me, more or less, except the owner was MIA. The cache was on a college campus, owner had left the college, cache had been archived because of several DNFs and owner's failure to find it and subsequent exit from the college, but it was on my GPS and in my Palm when I drove by, and I went directly to it, everything intact including the log. I found it, and logged it. My offer to adopt or whatever might be needed was never answered, so AFAIK it's still there, taking up space.

[+Tprints]

We recently had a problem with a cache that we found in Tennessee that was archived... and locked! Two of the four of us logged finds but a little later the other two of us couldn't. The cache was not only archived but was also locked so they can't even log it now. Seems that someone from that area was abusing the cache page by logging lotsa finds on it. Unfortunately by locking it two of us that did find it can't even log it now.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Tprints

[+BBosman]

Most caches are archived for a reason and therefore you shouldn't be able to log them anymore in my opinion.

 

And to accomodate the people that found it the day it was archived (or create a new account and migrate their old logs, or ...) you could change it to a system where you're not allowed to log it on a found-date after the archive date.

[+Tprints]

Most caches are archived for a reason and therefore you shouldn't be able to log them anymore in my opinion.

 

And to accomodate the people that found it the day it was archived (or create a new account and migrate their old logs, or ...) you could change it to a system where you're not allowed to log it on a found-date after the archive date.

That sounds fair to me. In our case, two of us logged our finds before the cache was even archived, let alone locked. A couple days later the other two tried to log their finds and it was too late. The page was not only archived, but also locked. Bummer.

[+ReadyOrNot]

We recently had a problem with a cache that we found in Tennessee that was archived... and locked! Two of the four of us logged finds but a little later the other two of us couldn't. The cache was not only archived but was also locked so they can't even log it now. Seems that someone from that area was abusing the cache page by logging lotsa finds on it. Unfortunately by locking it two of us that did find it can't even log it now.

 

The easiest way to prevent this from happening is to stay on top of your online logging. Some people are months behind on their online logging. If it's so vital to maintain proper find counts, why are you months behind? If you are a month behind and the cache is archived, then that's just the way it goes. There should be a week or two grace period after a cache is archived for late logs, and then shut em' down after that. In addition, an official way to transfer or copy finds from one account to another could be implemented that bypasses the previous rule (for a fee of course)... Most websites don't allow this kind of account manipulation.

[+klossner]

There should be a week or two grace period after a cache is archived for late logs, and then shut em' down after that.

This is silly.

 

If the owner chooses not to delete a log entry for an archived cache, how exactly is a third party harmed by that entry? Contrariwise, what's the benefit in preventing me from logging an archived cache when I stumble over it? (I've done that twice now in the last three years.)

 

All together now: "It's just a game. We only do it to have fun. Telling other people how to play their game does not enhance anybody's fun."

[+sbell111]

The easiest way to prevent this from happening is to stay on top of your online logging. Some people are months behind on their online logging. If it's so vital to maintain proper find counts, why are you months behind? If you are a month behind and the cache is archived, then that's just the way it goes. There should be a week or two grace period after a cache is archived for late logs, and then shut em' down after that. In addition, an official way to transfer or copy finds from one account to another could be implemented that bypasses the previous rule (for a fee of course)... Most websites don't allow this kind of account manipulation.

Why implement a new procedure that will affect many, many cachers to create a workaround for people that are abusing cache pages? The current practice works. Let's stick with it. Edited March 19, 2007 by sbell111

[+Rockin Roddy]

I just had two of my caches archived...and then logged as found a few days later. At first I was a bit curious as I knew neither cache container was there, but reading the logs told the tale. These caches had a third along (probably a youngster) who decided to create an account and go back and log their finds...I can buy that!!

[+Moore9KSUcats]

Most caches are archived for a reason and therefore you shouldn't be able to log them anymore in my opinion.

 

And to accomodate the people that found it the day it was archived (or create a new account and migrate their old logs, or ...) you could change it to a system where you're not allowed to log it on a found-date after the archive date.

 

I also found a cache that was clearly in the right place, but had been archived after a few DNF's. I don't know if the owner actually went to the place to verify it was gone, but there have been 2 finds (many months after) after the archiving. It is there, I logged it properly, and I told the owner. He is now trying to get it un-archived.

 

Just because it is archived, doesn't mean that the owner actually went out there and picked up the remains.

 

I found it intact, and should be able to log it as such.

[+Viajero Perdido]

I stumbled across the archived listing for a cache, where the 2nd-last log was the owner archiving the cache, and the last log was a reviewer note from the owner, saying "It's back, here's the new location". Well, reviewer notes don't automatically get noticed, so the cache just sat there in the new location, but the cache page stayed archived - for months and months.

 

I went out, found it, logged it, and asked the reviewer to un-archive it. Done!

 

This is why I like trolling through archived cache listings - occasionally there's a "lost gold mine" out there to be found.

[+Moore9KSUcats]

Here's an interesting scenario:

 

I went to check on a cache last week, and searched where we had hid it, and in the immediate locale. I can't find it. This does happen sometimes, that a cacher hides it slightly different than it was originally hidden. We've temporarily archived it. We plan to replace it in a month or so, after the local kids have hopefully forgotten about the place. I did search all around the area (a small area under a huge boulder)... but I still wonder if someone hid it differently than when we hid it? Maybe it is still there? Maybe the previous geocacher thought it was too hard, and wanted to hide it a little easier?

 

Hmm..... I wonder if that could happen to us, also, where we archive a cache because it is most likely stolen, and we can't find it, and someone else comes along and finds it months later? I sure would like to find out about it. I hope someone would tell us if that did happen. I have seen that happen here on the threads.

 

hmm.... tried to edit the previous post I had made, since it wasn't really saying what I wanted.... I wanted to add that this has happened at least twice with us. One time, several years ago, we were working on an old pq on the GPSr, and saw a nearby cache (in Austin). We parked and hunted for the cache, and sure enough, it was there. We noted the cache listing, and found it had been archived! (I don't think it was temporarily disabled, but fully archived.) I don't remember how much before (maybe a month or two?) it had been archived by the owner, but he was apparently hoping that someone would adopt the cache. Until then, he had left it there. I don't know what finally happened with that cache, but we didn't want to adopt it. Although we live near Austin, we just don't go down there that often, and didn't want to be the one to maintain it. I do hope he finally went to pick up the cache.

 

I also remember a situation where a geocacher in Texas claimed that the cache had been muggled, and archived it. It was found sometime later... at the same coordinates. He apparently took someone's word that it was missing.... either that or the previous cacher hid it enough different that he couldn't find it. This happens more often than we think it does.

Edited March 25, 2007 by Moore9KSUcats

[+Glenn]

Scenario B: Someone wants to create a special private cache. He places the cache and then archives it shortly after it is approved. Because you not only can log a cache after it is archived but you can also date the log with todays date (or any date before or AFTER the archive date) it is still active. It just isn't publicly listed (won't show up in any searches) anymore. Then the owner lists the new private cache, with a link to the cache, someplace like a Geocaching club website.

[Keystone]

Scenario B: Someone wants to create a special private cache. He places the cache and then archives it shortly after it is approved. Because you not only can log a cache after it is archived but you can also date the log with todays date (or any date before or AFTER the archive date) it is still active. It just isn't publicly listed (won't show up in any searches) anymore. Then the owner lists the new private cache, with a link to the cache, someplace like a Geocaching club website.

I would lock this cache down if it were in my review territory, so that no further logs could be entered. Bad example. See the guidelines regarding Cache Permanence.