Need some help with a GPS (Surveying my own Property)

[Clarkson]

Not sure if I have the right forum, but I just got a new Etrex Legend with interest in Geocashing, as well as a way to help my dad mark out the corners of his new 100 acre property. I am not sure how to go about this, or if it is possible. it is 100 acres square (we have been told 2080feet on each side. We know where the front 2 corners are, but would like to locate and mark the back two, as well as make sure we do not go on our neighbors property. Is there any way to map out this small an area on this unit? I would like it to lead me (within 50 or so feet) of each corner in a more or less straight line. Is this doable?

 

Thanks so much!

Andrew

[+PDOP's]

Do you have a survey plan/map showing the other corners? If so you may be able to read the coordinates off the map and enter them into your Legend. Alternately, if you know the exact distance and bearing from the front stakes to the back ones you could use a program like GeoCalc to calculate the coordinates.

 

Edited for spelling

Edited February 27, 2007 by PDOP's

[+wesleykey]

 

I would like it to lead me (within 50 or so feet) of each corner in a more or less straight line. Is this doable?

 

 

If it's an open field, it is possible. If it is in the woods, more than likely not. I tried to help a guy mark a 500 foot property line by using a GPS to walk from one corner to the other. I was constantly 50 or 75 feet off where the actual line was due to very dense undergrowth. Walking a straight line in the woods is impossible as you go around trees and shrubs.

[+Dave_W6DPS]

To really do a meaningful you are going to need a plot of the parcel showing the size, and exact dimensions. The common description of "100 acres" is really pretty ambiguous.

 

An acre is the name of a unit of area in a number of different systems, including Imperial units and United States customary units. The most commonly used acres today are the international acre and, in the United States, the survey acre.

 

Since you are in Canada, I don't know which "acre" you are using. Also, it is vvery common to round off to a more convenient number.

 

Add to the confusion over what an acre is, it is very uncommom for parcels of land, in any country, to be exactly a specific number of acres in size or exactly square.

 

The formal plot of the parcel will show the exact size, and give the benchmark used as a reference.

 

In California we would get this from out county or city planning office, but that varies from state to state and I wouldn't pretend ot have any idea about how to find one in Canada.

 

The plot or formal description of the parcel should give you what you need to figure out approximately where the corners are, but remember that a handheld GPSr is hardly a survey instrument, and if you are looking at any formal uses (running fencing for example), you should have a real surveyor do the job.

 

Dave_W6DPS

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I thought land measurements in Canada were in hectares and meters.

If the parcel is truly square, then the back corners of a 100 acre parcel are 2948 feet from the diagonally opposite corner (which would be .558 mi.). You might find a stonepile or other surveyor's mark if the adjacent property was surveyed.

 

If the frontage road is TRUE N-S or TRUE E-W just add or subtract to get the coords of the back corners.

Hope this is helpful.

Tom Fuller

[+Airmapper]

Since you do have 2 reference points, I would take the GPS and using the "average" feature in the waypoint menu, go get the coordinates for those two points.

 

You can get a program like Global Mapper for free, and load those two points, then use the program to find the back two points by using bearing and distance info you have off a deed, or by using a 90 degree angle off the line between the front two. The bonus is if you can find geo-referenced aerial photos for your area you can overlay that onto your points and see where the lines and corners lie.

[+PDOP's]

I thought land measurements in Canada were in hectares and meters.

 

Nope they're still in acres (43560 sq. ft.) where legal surveys are involved.

[+miles58]

I have done this. I don't think I would try in the woods with an Etrex though.

 

What I did was to locate two surveyed references (both 1/2 mile off and on the same line) and assume them to be accurate. From them I projected waypoints to the four corners of the property. After that I established the corners as references the projected waypoints again to all four corners to cross check the first series. I eventually had a projection and a two back checks for each corner.

 

After I got all that done I found one corner of the property was surveyed and marked. It was within 6 feet of where I projected the corner from a mile and a quarter away. After that I found a surveyed fence line in the woods on the diagonal corner that my projections fell within two feet of That gave me the NW and SE corners of a 240 acre piece out in the woods so I had all four lines with better accuracy than I could keep to unless I brought in a transit.

 

If you're careful and borrow a unit with a better antenna and you can locate surveyed references within a mile, you should be able to fix the corners within ten feet.

[Dsorgnzd]

Not sure if I have the right forum, but I just got a new Etrex Legend with interest in Geocashing, as well as a way to help my dad mark out the corners of his new 100 acre property. I am not sure how to go about this, or if it is possible. it is 100 acres square (we have been told 2080feet on each side. We know where the front 2 corners are, but would like to locate and mark the back two, as well as make sure we do not go on our neighbors property. Is there any way to map out this small an area on this unit? I would like it to lead me (within 50 or so feet) of each corner in a more or less straight line. Is this doable?

 

Thanks so much!

Andrew

If the back corners happen to be marked with iron stakes, use a GPS to get you as close as possible, then use a metal detector to find the stakes. Otherwise, if you want the corners marked accurately, I think you'll need a surveyor.

[Clarkson]

I have done this. I don't think I would try in the woods with an Etrex though.

 

What I did was to locate two surveyed references (both 1/2 mile off and on the same line) and assume them to be accurate. From them I projected waypoints to the four corners of the property. After that I established the corners as references the projected waypoints again to all four corners to cross check the first series. I eventually had a projection and a two back checks for each corner.

 

After I got all that done I found one corner of the property was surveyed and marked. It was within 6 feet of where I projected the corner from a mile and a quarter away. After that I found a surveyed fence line in the woods on the diagonal corner that my projections fell within two feet of That gave me the NW and SE corners of a 240 acre piece out in the woods so I had all four lines with better accuracy than I could keep to unless I brought in a transit.

 

If you're careful and borrow a unit with a better antenna and you can locate surveyed references within a mile, you should be able to fix the corners within ten feet.

 

What Kind of unit should I get?

[+Uncle T K]

Canada uses the American Public Land Survey System

as its basis for its Public Land Survey

 

Land is divided into Townships with six miles on a side (36 Sections) (640 Acres)

 

Each Section is divided into Quarters (NW NE SW SE) of 160 Acres

 

Each 1/4 section (160 Acres) can be divided into 4 Quarters (NW NE SW SE) 40 acres

 

Dividing land into a 100 Acre square is normal not done because of the legal deqcriptions would

be a night mare with distances being measured and stated from Township sections 1/4 sections

and 1/4 of a quarter section with so many feet from each one of the 16 legal sub division that you can divide a section in to. (40 Acres Square) (1,320 feet to a side)

[+Wayfinders]

Not sure if I have the right forum, but I just got a new Etrex Legend with interest in Geocashing, as well as a way to help my dad mark out the corners of his new 100 acre property. I am not sure how to go about this, or if it is possible. it is 100 acres square (we have been told 2080feet on each side. We know where the front 2 corners are, but would like to locate and mark the back two, as well as make sure we do not go on our neighbors property. Is there any way to map out this small an area on this unit? I would like it to lead me (within 50 or so feet) of each corner in a more or less straight line. Is this doable?

 

Thanks so much!

Andrew

 

Andrew, if you want to know where the property lines are hire a Surveyor. This is the only way for you to truly know the boundaries of the property. Your desire to save money is understandable and common thought among landowners, but you may be opening yourself up to liabilities and legal action should you encroach on adjoiners while foresting or making improvements to the property. If the property was surveyed recently, you may find the name of the Surveyor at the end of the legal description. If this information is not provided in the description ask the attorney who handled the closing if he or she knows who did the work. This will save you money, since this Surveyor has already done the field work and boundary analysis. This way you won't have to hire one who has to start from scratch. Recreational GPS units and public GIS systems that provide coordinate information are currently one of the most dangerous items to the landowner should they hold them as accurate information. I hope this advice helps, and I wish you luck in your endeavor.

[+cache_r_joe]

what about projecting a waypoint. If you know 2 locations and the direction and distance from them, that should get you the 2 back corners.

 

Would this work? Lets face it unless you actually have a surveyor come out and do it you are not going to be exact, but this might get you close.

[+dkwolf]

I have done this. I don't think I would try in the woods with an Etrex though.

 

What I did was to locate two surveyed references (both 1/2 mile off and on the same line) and assume them to be accurate. From them I projected waypoints to the four corners of the property. After that I established the corners as references the projected waypoints again to all four corners to cross check the first series. I eventually had a projection and a two back checks for each corner.

 

After I got all that done I found one corner of the property was surveyed and marked. It was within 6 feet of where I projected the corner from a mile and a quarter away. After that I found a surveyed fence line in the woods on the diagonal corner that my projections fell within two feet of That gave me the NW and SE corners of a 240 acre piece out in the woods so I had all four lines with better accuracy than I could keep to unless I brought in a transit.

 

If you're careful and borrow a unit with a better antenna and you can locate surveyed references within a mile, you should be able to fix the corners within ten feet.

 

What Kind of unit should I get?

 

The etrex legend will get just as good of signal as any other civilian, consumer-grade gps. Which is to say, not anywheres good enough to even consider use for any type of survey. If you want a gps that can actually locate the corner pins, the answer to your last question is...

 

You can't afford it.

 

I just brought one of our survey grade gps units to our main office today to be sent in for repair. It's 3-4 years old now, and we still took out $39,000 in shipping insurance on it.

 

Let's face it. The best thing you can do if you're planning on doing anything with the land is hire a surveyor. It might cost you $900-$1000, but it would be money VERY well spent. They would find out if your neighbors have been cheating their fence over onto your land, or if you're going to encroach on their land. It really would be a good idea.

[Clarkson]

Ok.... I'll post some more background info

 

This is a 100 acres of swamp/woods/etc on an unassumed road. The land has never been surveyed. We have the maps that the original owner drew up based on the original property map (road to road) Nothing has been done overly accurate, all we have are two marked posts on the road at the north side of the property.

 

Because we are not doing anything major in building (maybe a small shack in the woods sort of thing) and a couple of trails through the bush, we are not worried about 100% acuracy here. We just want a guideline.

 

Now, today, dad went to Lindsay and got what the city has for us. He got the deed and exact property size. He also spoke to someone who seemed fairly knowledgable in this stuff, but I wasn't there so I don't understand it all.

 

Heres what he gave us.

First I need to find the coordinates of the front two stakes

717.6M

S69degreesE

291d

will bring us from the north west corner to the southwest corner

 

726.2m

S69degreesE

291d

will bring us from the north east corner to the south east corner

 

Now, if I get the coordinates for the north two posts, is there any way to project what the south two will be from that??

Thanks again for everyones help!

Edited March 10, 2007 by Clarkson

[Clarkson]

Since you do have 2 reference points, I would take the GPS and using the "average" feature in the waypoint menu, go get the coordinates for those two points.

 

You can get a program like Global Mapper for free, and load those two points, then use the program to find the back two points by using bearing and distance info you have off a deed, or by using a 90 degree angle off the line between the front two. The bonus is if you can find geo-referenced aerial photos for your area you can overlay that onto your points and see where the lines and corners lie.

 

I think this is what I'm thinking

I donwloading that software....confusing I'm trying tho!

[+tomfuller & Quill]

The back corners will be about half a meter farther apart than the front (marked corners) along the road.

If right angles were turned off the road, the azimuth of the road should be 21d - 201d. If this is the case, the distance along the road should be 1840 feet (560.8 meters) if it is truly 100 acres. If the previous survey by the owner was done in bearings (magnetic) you have to compute todays magnetic declination compared to the declination when the road and 2 sides were sighted.

Make sure your GPS is set to TRUE North and get the distance and AZIMUTH between the front stakes.

Good luck!

[+Juicepig]

I thought land measurements in Canada were in hectares and meters.

 

Nope they're still in acres (43560 sq. ft.) where legal surveys are involved.

 

Its a throwback from a less enlightened era