+FollowMeChaps Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Do you know of any genuine 5/5 - Difficulty/Terrain caches in the UK using the GC scoring system? The only one I've done marked like this would definately not score this high on the GC report a cache page which points to http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/. It seems that to score 5/5 one needs to hit the following buttons: -Specialized equipment includes: Boats, 4WD vehicles, rock climbing gear, SCUBA, etc. -Take more than a day to hike in, find the cache, and hike out again? -So overgrown that I can't see the other side! Some type of machete or other cutting device is probably needed. Very likely to have thorns or poison plants. - Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge. I am preparing what is a really difficult multi in the Welsh mountains that requires mountain skills/experience and challenging maths but still it only rates 4/4.5 - Do others use their own system? I know I can run a search on 5/5s but that desn't mean they are genuine. Come on, give me some challening caches! Quote Link to comment
+Cryptik Souls Crew Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Come on, give me some challening caches! I rated mine using the ClayJar system and it comes out as 5/5, finders to date seem to agree. ...Lost in translation Quote Link to comment
+jerryo Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I set a cache and was told to make it a 5/5 by the moderators Quote Link to comment
+FollowMeChaps Posted October 29, 2006 Author Share Posted October 29, 2006 I set a cache and was told to make it a 5/5 by the moderators Can you tell us which, or add a link? Quote Link to comment
+Haggis Hunter Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I set a cache and was told to make it a 5/5 by the moderators Can you tell us which, or add a link? It may be this one? It does look a fun cache to do. Quote Link to comment
+jerryo Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Hi, Yes it's GCXKD3 as the link suggests. I didn't want people to think I was trying to get them to do it in October so I mentioned it sort of en passant - although I intend to check it in December. Possibly. Depends, really Quote Link to comment
+Birdman-of-liskatraz Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 It kind of depends..... is there anywhere in the UK that you can't not walk there and back to from a road in a day? We have no rainforest or jungle that we need to hack through - though the braken on Dartmoor gets close at times. I'm guessing the scoring system has to be adjusted to reflect where it is being used.. Cachers in the Antarctic must be used to the fact that its cold icey and snowy... My kids who live in Norfolk always remark that Cornish Caches are rated much lower than ones in Norfolk.. I guess because we have things like hills and cliffs and moors and other landscape features missing in Norfolk. (OK I know Hunstanton has some pretty lil cliffs!) I did a 5/5 a while back... the puzzle part could be solved in 5 minutes on the internet... the cache itself after a far old drive, a rather nice walk and surprise bit... but the only specialist equipment needed was a torch... Yet theres a local 5/5 where it took me some days to work out the puzzle part and still not found the specialist equipment to go and get the cache... So I think there are British caches that say they're 5/5s when they're not and there are British caches that really are 5/5.. yet compared to caches in say the USA wouldn't warrent such a ranking... And yes I guess most of us would like a 5/5 cache that we could say we had set.... and with that goes the risk of "Exaggerating" what we really have set... *Ducks beneath the parapet* Quote Link to comment
+sTeamTraen Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Regardless of the debate over the interpretation of terrain between different places - 3* terrain in Germany is generally a substantial hike, compared to some I've seen in the UK, for example - I think they key question about most 5/5s is whether the difficulty is really worth 5. There's a cache on Mont Blanc rated 5/5 which has never been found, but I am led to believe that the box is under a small pile of stones, probably visible from outer space. That's 1 or 1.5 for difficulty. It seems that once terrain gets above 3.5*, the owner tends to get a bit trigger-happy with the difficulty stars: yes, this is hard, because it's hard to get to. In my book, "Terrain" should rate how hard it is to get "close to" the cache - say, within GPS accuracy - and "Difficulty" should be how hard it is to find, even if you've been beamed up there by Mr. Scott. Quote Link to comment
+Stuey Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 I know I can run a search on 5/5s but that desn't mean they are genuine. Come on, give me some challening caches! You've done just one 5/5 and you are assuming that they are all over rated? Don't suppose you could go and do sore more and see if they are all over rated too? Quote Link to comment
+mongoose39uk Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 Maybe this one K2 Quote Link to comment
+Simply Paul Posted October 29, 2006 Share Posted October 29, 2006 (edited) It kind of depends..... is there anywhere in the UK that you can't not walk there and back to from a road in a day?...There is. The Knoydart peninsular in Scotland. Here's a link to Streetmap.co.uk The way I've read the rating system is that Terrain is just that. Distance, surfaces, conditions... and Difficulty is an over-all figure, which includes how hard it is to find, open, get the co-ords for (in the case of multis and puzzles) AND get to. The whole package, as it were. But I stand to be corrected. As for if there's any in the UK, I'd say show me a list of 5/5s (I know someone has one) and I'll have a look for you to see what I think P.S. Sorry to hear about your burglary mongoose. I hope they catch the greedy little git/s and throw the book at them. Edited October 29, 2006 by Simply Paul Quote Link to comment
+FollowMeChaps Posted October 30, 2006 Author Share Posted October 30, 2006 (edited) You've done just one 5/5 and you are assuming that they are all over rated? Don't suppose you could go and do sore more and see if they are all over rated too? Get you - and what side of bed did you get out of? You got this assumption from where?!!! And I had thought that all cachers were friendly. Edited October 30, 2006 by FollowMeChaps Quote Link to comment
markandlynn Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I maintain a bookmark list for the hardest caches here. Part of the problem comes from the fact that difficulty is used with many caches to rate two things ie the difficulty of the puzzle and the difficulty of the find this can make people up the terrain to reflect how difficult the total challenge is which is perfectly fair. A long multi with very hard to find stages up's the difficulty and once a walk gets above 2-3 hours its gets a high terrain value from the rating systems. We to have noticed differences across the UK in rating D and T. Quote Link to comment
+Stuey Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 You've done just one 5/5 and you are assuming that they are all over rated? Don't suppose you could go and do sore more and see if they are all over rated too? Get you - and what side of bed did you get out of? You got this assumption from where?!!! And I had thought that all cachers were friendly. I am friendly . You can't seriously expect to make a comment like you did and not get any replies like mine did you? I based my assumption on your first post. I apologise if I got the wrong end of the stick. Anyway, all I meant to say was that there are a lot of 5/5's that you haven't done, and you'll find out if you think they are 5/5's when you try them. No offence intended. Quote Link to comment
+mongoose39uk Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 You've done just one 5/5 and you are assuming that they are all over rated? Don't suppose you could go and do sore more and see if they are all over rated too? Get you - and what side of bed did you get out of? You got this assumption from where?!!! And I had thought that all cachers were friendly. Don't think it was Stuey that got out of the wrong side of the bed there tbh. Quote Link to comment
+Pieman Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 (edited) Some of the 5 terrain ratings are confused by different people's interpretation of "special equipment". I guess it's meant to mean scuba gear or climbing ropes or the like. I've seen it used to mean taking a specific TB with you or having a torch. Edited October 30, 2006 by Pieman Quote Link to comment
+TMM-Sarah Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 I can assure you that Stuey is a completely genuine cacher whom I have had great pleasure in accompanying on a 5/5 cache. And you know what...that was my first 5/5 cache and do I particularly care about ratings...not personally1 I just simply enjoy finding (or not finding ) caches. Sarah x Quote Link to comment
+Stuey Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Do you know of any genuine 5/5 - Difficulty/Terrain caches in the UK using the GC scoring system? Try Wildcat, Underworld 8, Code Breakers 5: Cryptology, and Race the Clock for starters. I'd agree that the 5/5 cache you did (coincidentally just befoe I did it) is not correctly rated. It was good fun though, and different. Quote Link to comment
+Happy Humphrey Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 The few 5/5's that I've done were generally rather overgraded. But the Clayjar rating is to be used only as a general guide: local knowledge and experience should tell you whether to add or deduct a star. The only one I set as a 5/5 is The Money Pit, and I think that it deserves it, even though it's only 5/4.5 according to the Clayjar rating and even though you could probably get from start to finish inside three hours (not including a few hours preparation). But I gave it an extra half terrain star because you may need to take tide times into account - obviously, not part of the simplistic Clayjar guide. The lack of visits (despite containing two very collectable geocoins) probably validates my rating! HH Quote Link to comment
+FollowMeChaps Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 Thanks for all the suggestions to date - please keep them coming - I'm hoping for some nearer to home for me - SW, S. Wales & Midlands. I'd also like to apologise to any who have misinterpreted my original posting. I was genuinely bemused as to how the GC Clayjar system allowed 5/5s in the UK but guessed there probably might be some outside my limited experience. I was certainly not knocking other pepoles own cache ratings. The query arose for me as I have one in development which when rated on Clayjar scored surprisingly low given its extreme terrain and difficulty. As has been correctly pointed out, I have only done only one 5/5 which was really great fun but would not have scored as high via the Clayjar system. This to me indicated that there may be other systems in use in the UK - I wanted to use the Forum to learn - isn't that what it's for? I didn't want to approach the owner of the one I'd experienced least this be misinterpreted as a criticism. I didn't realise that others on the forum would do their own investigation of my cahes and reach that conclusion themselves - boy have I learned something! FMC Quote Link to comment
markandlynn Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The query arose for me as I have one in development which when rated on Clayjar scored surprisingly low given its extreme terrain and difficulty. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You have to remember that for you its easier than other people. When we set our high D T cache we added extra time for people hunting the stages as we found that bit very easy when we set it Fortunately some of the finders have confirmed how long it took them to complete. If you are really unsure ask the first finders what they would rate it at and adjust accordingly. Quote Link to comment
+Haggis Hunter Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I didn't realise that others on the forum would do their own investigation of my cahes and reach that conclusion themselves - boy have I learned something! It's called curiosity, and I think most of us do it. I certainly do. Quote Link to comment
+Papakas Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Cache rating is as much perception as physical. The perception of a rating to an experienced cacher and/or a cacher who is experienced in the specialist skill required to find the cache/reach the cache location is obviously going to be different to a cacher with little or average equivalent experience. If you are seeking a serious 5/5 challenge GCGHJJ is one worth attention. Five caches including M2 Ben Macdui Britains second highest mountain and a ten mile round trip walk are required to locate GCGHJJ and then the challenge begins! Standing only metres from the cache location: 1. do you turn away to return with specialist equipment? 2. do you have the skill/strength/experience to go for it? That's the perception. If you fall into category 1. no doubt the cache qualifies a 5 difficulty but if you're category 2. you may consider was it worth a 5? However, for having the balls to go category 2. is evidence of the specialist equipment required to rate a 5 difficulty! Pack your rucksack, pull on your best walking boots and get yourself up to the highlands! If you want a partner for the challenge both Prince of Darkness (who will be attempting the cache(s) only at night) and Kingfisher have it high on their caching hit lists! Quote Link to comment
+Captain Gore-tex Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Thanks for all the suggestions to date - please keep them coming - I'm hoping for some nearer to home for me - SW, S. Wales & Midlands. I'd also like to apologise to any who have misinterpreted my original posting. I was genuinely bemused as to how the GC Clayjar system allowed 5/5s in the UK but guessed there probably might be some outside my limited experience. I was certainly not knocking other pepoles own cache ratings. The query arose for me as I have one in development which when rated on Clayjar scored surprisingly low given its extreme terrain and difficulty. As has been correctly pointed out, I have only done only one 5/5 which was really great fun but would not have scored as high via the Clayjar system. This to me indicated that there may be other systems in use in the UK - I wanted to use the Forum to learn - isn't that what it's for? I didn't want to approach the owner of the one I'd experienced least this be misinterpreted as a criticism. I didn't realise that others on the forum would do their own investigation of my cahes and reach that conclusion themselves - boy have I learned something! FMC No, obviously much better to publish in the wild hope that 'the owner' wouldn't read the thread of a local cacher!! Seriously individual feedback isn't criticism, we are all learning, I will reclassify it accordingly. oh and if it is a really challenging cache you wish for I will try to oblige shortly, I will make sure you get notified so you can have a go. Race the clock was good for me. Quote Link to comment
+derrylynne Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 Do you know of any genuine 5/5 - Difficulty/Terrain caches in the UK using the GC scoring system? The only one I've done marked like this would definately not score this high on the GC report a cache page which points to http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/. It seems that to score 5/5 one needs to hit the following buttons: -Specialized equipment includes: Boats, 4WD vehicles, rock climbing gear, SCUBA, etc. -Take more than a day to hike in, find the cache, and hike out again? -So overgrown that I can't see the other side! Some type of machete or other cutting device is probably needed. Very likely to have thorns or poison plants. - Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge. I am preparing what is a really difficult multi in the Welsh mountains that requires mountain skills/experience and challenging maths but still it only rates 4/4.5 - Do others use their own system? I know I can run a search on 5/5s but that desn't mean they are genuine. Come on, give me some challening caches! I am sure us cachers here in South Wales can think of something for next years event on May 5th. Thinking caps on boys - something seriously hard. Quote Link to comment
+FollowMeChaps Posted November 3, 2006 Author Share Posted November 3, 2006 I am sure us cachers here in South Wales can think of something for next years event on May 5th. Thinking caps on boys - something seriously hard. Actually it's one I'm setting around the event area that caused me to ask the original question. Please steer clear of the Mynydd Llangatwg as that's where it'll be; puzzle and stages already set just waiting for me to get there to place the box - hopefully within the next 2/3 weeks. FMC Quote Link to comment
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