Identifying Ammo Box Caches

[+Clyde1140]

On camo, here is my method:

 

Clean the can and knock any rust off, then paint a good base coat of field drab (think of olive drab with a but more gray ) then camo it a bit with OD and brown (never black...you don't see black in nature).

 

Next I get a couple tubes of the 2 part 5 minute epoxy available at wal-mart for $2. Mix it, spread it over one side, the top, bottom and back and affix rocks, sticks, grass etc to match my intended surroundings. once I get all the big stuff on I sprinkle very dry, very fine sand/dirt. Be sure you don't glue the lid shut.

 

I have a half dozen or so I did this with weathering in the backyard to make sure they will hold up and adding some character. Works for decons and ammo cans

[+SCOTUS]

Little did I know that I wold spark a conversation like this. I'm glad this discussion is going on and have gotten some very helpful hints and information out of it.

 

My whole point in starting this thread was that in our current security climate, people finding anything out of the ordinary have a much greater potential to call the police to report it. I was reviewing some of my earliest cache finds can came across the final several logs for a now archived cache, NIPPON SAKURA HANA. This cache was in a wooded area in the City of Seattle, outside the Japanese garden. If you look at the last find, the bomb squad did come out and remove this cache. The night after looking at this log entry, I want caching in a more suburban area, in a park where the City of Lynnwood runs summer camps for about 150 or so children. I found the cache, an ammo box with military markings.

 

I understand security concerns and think it's only prudent for the poice to investigate things that are threats to public safety. I think there have been several suggestions in this conversation of what we, as geocachers, can do to make sure that we don't cause undue security worries.

 

IMHO, the best course of action that can be taken when hiding a cache is to remove or paint over the military markings on Ammo Boxes or decon containers and clearly label them as geocaches. If one finds an ammo box cache with military markings, I think the best thing to do is to contact the cache owner and ask them to remedy the situation. I would only alter another person's cache if I received their permisison first.

 

Thanks for all of your responses, I think this discussion is very healthy... I look forward to reading more.

[+Davispak]

Little did I know that I wold spark a conversation like this. I'm glad this discussion is going on and have gotten some very helpful hints and information out of it.

 

My whole point in starting this thread was that in our current security climate, people finding anything out of the ordinary have a much greater potential to call the police to report it. I was reviewing some of my earliest cache finds can came across the final several logs for a now archived cache, NIPPON SAKURA HANA. This cache was in a wooded area in the City of Seattle, outside the Japanese garden. If you look at the last find, the bomb squad did come out and remove this cache. The night after looking at this log entry, I want caching in a more suburban area, in a park where the City of Lynnwood runs summer camps for about 150 or so children. I found the cache, an ammo box with military markings.

 

I understand security concerns and think it's only prudent for the poice to investigate things that are threats to public safety. I think there have been several suggestions in this conversation of what we, as geocachers, can do to make sure that we don't cause undue security worries.

 

IMHO, the best course of action that can be taken when hiding a cache is to remove or paint over the military markings on Ammo Boxes or decon containers and clearly label them as geocaches. If one finds an ammo box cache with military markings, I think the best thing to do is to contact the cache owner and ask them to remedy the situation. I would only alter another person's cache if I received their permisison first.

 

Thanks for all of your responses, I think this discussion is very healthy... I look forward to reading more.

Amen Scotus!

I like you think it is irresponsible of a cache placer to leave the can unpainted unmarked cans out. I have one ammo can out and I repainted it and used a black marker to write Geocache all over it with the website info. This was my first cache. I have become a little more sofisticated now, but even when I use camo tape, I still put 3 white Geocache labels on it identifying it as same(top, bottom, and side). In my opinion, all caches should be labeled on the outside informing anyone who finds it that it is a cache.

[+baloo&bd]

IMHO, the best course of action that can be taken when hiding a cache is to remove or paint over the military markings on Ammo Boxes or decon containers and clearly label them as geocaches. If one finds an ammo box cache with military markings, I think the best thing to do is to contact the cache owner and ask them to remedy the situation. I would only alter another person's cache if I received their permisison first.

 

However let's keep this our little secret so those that are doing something dastardly don't get the idea to disguise it.

 

Sorry guys and gals, just don't buy this logic. I may paint an ammo box to further blend it into it's surroundings, however someone prone to being overly cautious is going to panic whether it is green and marked "30 cal" or white and says "Christmas cookies".

Edited August 2, 2006 by baloo&bd

[+sbell111]

However let's keep this our little secret so those that are doing something dastardly don't get the idea to disguise it.

 

Sorry guys and gals, just don't buy this logic. I may paint an ammo box to further blend it into it's surroundings, however someone prone to being overly cautious is going to panic whether it is green and marked "30 cal" or white and says "Christmas cookies".

Amen.

[+SCOTUS]

Baloo & bd, I understand your point. People who are prone to overreaction are going to overreact, there's no doubt about it. The point I was trying to get across is that leaving military markings on a can is an invitation to overreaction. It's labeling something harmless as something dangerous. We clearly don't need to do that. If somebody comes across an ammo box cache that isn't labeled as ammunition, I think that they're more likely to open it and see what it is rather than calling the police.

 

Camo your can (sbell111's paint job posted above is very good), disguise it so that it blends in, just don't leave the military markings on it so that it's labeled as something dangerous. We cartainly can't control how people react, but I think we can minimize the reasons we give them to overreact.

Edited August 2, 2006 by SCOTUS

[+Teach2Learn]

I may paint an ammo box to further blend it into it's surroundings, however someone prone to being overly cautious is going to panic whether it is green and marked "30 cal" or white and says "Christmas cookies".

 

As Scotus noted, they may overreact, but that shouldn't affect the cache owner's responsibility. As the majority in this thread have noted, the military markings should be covered/removed to minimize the reaction (even if you don't agree it will have the intended effect).

 

In addition, if you wish to follow the guidelines, the choice is clear:

"Clearly label your physical containers on the outside with appropriate information to reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those that are unaware of our sport."--quoted from the Hide/Seek a Cache guidelines

 

Not only should the markings be covered/removed, the containers should be correctly identified.

[+Snoogans]

I don't know if I'm too sensitive to these issues, but I wanted to throw this topic out there and get thoughts from the community.

 

Thanks, SCOTUS

 

Didn't read the topic. I'm just answering the OP.

 

One word:

 

SHARPIE!

 

The majority of my ammo cans are hidden SO remotely as 4WD park-n-grabs that they would NEVER be mistaken as a bomb.

 

Yep, a Sharpie is ALL ya NEED.

 

It says Geocache on there somewhere........

[+Lemon Fresh Dog]

I use the stickers you can buy.

 

[+baloo&bd]

Baloo & bd, I understand your point. People who are prone to overreaction are going to overreact, there's no doubt about it. The point I was trying to get across is that leaving military markings on a can is an invitation to overreaction. It's labeling something harmless as something dangerous. We clearly don't need to do that. If somebody comes across an ammo box cache that isn't labeled as ammunition, I think that they're more likely to open it and see what it is rather than calling the police.

 

Valid points. However I am not as concerned with making sure the marking are all gone, I do label it.

 

My point was that a bomb is not goiong to be labeled "bomb". In fact, when this discussion was in another thread, it was pointed out that 1. Most bombs (at least those reported on) have been disguised as everyday items and 2. the bomb squads generally have been afrain of tupperware and peanut butter jars. Rarely has it been reported, at least here on the forums, that a ammo box was mistaken. Before someone posts a link, better post 20 because I did say rarely and I can post that many for tupperware type containers.

 

I prefer hunting micros and many of my hides are micros. Less worry unless I paint nitro on the side.

[+baloo&bd]

In addition, if you wish to follow the guidelines, the choice is clear:

"Clearly label your physical containers on the outside with appropriate information to reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those that are unaware of our sport."--quoted from the Hide/Seek a Cache guidelines

 

Not sure if you intended to quote my message, since this didn't seem to apply to what I wrote.

 

In either case, no one ever said do not label it. It just not that big a deal to cover everything else since it won't matter one wayor another to someone already has a "Gladys Kravitz" complex.

[+BigHank]

... As far as muggles and 'back in the day'....my first cache I hid, in late 2001, was a quarter of a mile hike through an old abandonded railroad tunnel, then you had to climb half way up the fallen down retaining wall where it was hidden in a crevice. It was an ammo box, painted shades of gray to blend in with the rocks, with "geocache" in small letters on the bottom right hand sides, and with contact info on the bottom. It was muggled within a month.

I wanted badly to find that cache bad, but never got around to it.

 

edited for readability.

 

Thanks...that is a real compliment coming from you. I really enjoyed and appreciated your series of "Caeser" caches, and I think "Caeser's Greetings" was a very thoughtful and generous way to help celebrate Christmas season that year. I can remember being at work when I saw it show up as a new cache. Couldn't wait to go look for it. Next day at lunch time, I was out there...missed lunch, but found the cache. And had fun!

 

Speaking of fun, I probably had as much or more fun finding the place to hide the train tunnel cache, then "making" the cache, then actually hiding it, than I did finding a lot of the caches I have found since. "Deliverance Train" almost got resurrected two years ago close to the original spot, but the railroad fixed up the right of way, laid down some new tracks, and now run one train a week through the tunnel....bummer.

[+alexrudd]

The risk of someone finding my caches and calling them bombs is zero. I paint them for the camouflage, not because some idiot is going to get freaked out by military markings. I like it when cachers do the same, but I have no problem with unpainted ammo boxes.

 

Find me one ammo box, Lock'n Lock, or Tupperware bomb. Just one.

[+BigHank]

Spray painting or putting tape or a decal or sticker on someone else's cache is not good form at all. If someone did that to one of mine, at the least I would email them to tell them why I am deleting their log, and at the most they would get a heated email from me discussing their probably parentage and upbringing, and then I would delete their log.

Why would you delete the log? They found the cache. Do you also delete negative logs to all your caches?

 

 

Nope, don't delete negative logs to all my caches...in fact, I have taken a few of what might be considered negative logs as constructive criticism and made changes/done it differently next time. In any event, this has nothing to do with negative logs. This has to do with defacing an owner's cache. I would consider someone spray painting my cache in the same category as I consider those who "signed" caches on the outside during a numbers run, i.e. tantamount to vandals, and therefore would delete the log.

[+Teach2Learn]

In addition, if you wish to follow the guidelines, the choice is clear:

"Clearly label your physical containers on the outside with appropriate information to reduce the risk of your cache being perceived as a danger to those that are unaware of our sport."--quoted from the Hide/Seek a Cache guidelines

 

Not sure if you intended to quote my message, since this didn't seem to apply to what I wrote.

 

In either case, no one ever said do not label it. It just not that big a deal to cover everything else since it won't matter one wayor another to someone already has a "Gladys Kravitz" complex.

 

Sorry, I think it applies even to those without a Gladys Kravitz complex. I haven't panicked, reported, or spray painted over them when I've found them. However, the second part of the guideline emphasizes the idea of information that could be "perceived as a danger." Military markings fit that description. Cover/remove them...and add labels. I think that's quite clear.

 

See briansnat's earlier post in this thread for more of the reasoning:

"What is a non geocacher to think when he uncovers a box that says ".50 cal tracer" or other military markings. Its begging for the bomb squad to be called in."

 

It seems like a moderator (and possible reviewer?) wouldn't recommend that unless it was supported by the guidelines, unless you feel he's a "Gladys Kravitz." At least we can agree she should have left Samantha, Darrin, and Tabitha alone.

 

(edited to add briansnat quote)

Edited August 3, 2006 by Teach2Learn

[+Teach2Learn]

The risk of someone finding my caches and calling them bombs is zero. I paint them for the camouflage, not because some idiot is going to get freaked out by military markings. I like it when cachers do the same, but I have no problem with unpainted ammo boxes.

 

Find me one ammo box, Lock'n Lock, or Tupperware bomb. Just one.

 

Nobody's saying they exist--at least I hope no one claims that.

 

It's simply common sense and in keeping with the guidelines to label your container and, from my understanding, to cover the military markings. Of course, this is more important in urban hides, but I don't see where the guidelines say it's okay elsewhere, even if it would probably not raise a single eyebrow.

 

Here's one of mine with a label covering the former military markings. It's hidden in a good-sized park (over 700 acres), just off trail.

 

 

(edited to add photo and correct number of acres)

Edited August 3, 2006 by Teach2Learn

[+5¢]

One was there are other sites out there that list geocaches and somebody might want to refer folks to those or even a personal site.

 

No offense CR, but I see this as a cop out of making one stencil as opposed to what, 3? I don't think anyone but a koolaid drinker can argue that GC.com is the leader in this thing we call geocaching. If you were in this for GC.com, you would have put it on the stencil . You chose to leave it open (which I don't blame you for, but for gosh darn sake, just be honest) to make money if someone listed their cache on another site.

[+CheshireFrog]

It's simply common sense and in keeping with the guidelines to label your container and, from my understanding, to cover the military markings. Of course, this is more important in urban hides, but I don't see where the guidelines say it's okay elsewhere, even if it would probably not raise a single eyebrow.

 

Nowhere in your quote of the guidelines does it say anything about removing any markings, it says it should be clearly labeled. In that vein, I would imagine that anyone actually placing a bomb wouldn't want it to be noticed prior to detonation, so camouflage is out. Ditto for hiding caches under and behind things, that just makes them seem sinister, so we should leave them out in the open. Labeling the cache may not be going far enough, since the label on the cache in your picture would be hard to read from a distance. Labels should be black letters on a day-glo orange background of a sufficient size to be easily read from 20 yards.

 

Ammo cans have been pressed into service for all sorts of things; tool boxes, first aid kits, storage for tire chains, etc. When I see an ammo can outside of an obvious military setting I automatically assume it's not full of .50 cal belt feed rounds. So far I've always been right.

[+Teach2Learn]

It's simply common sense and in keeping with the guidelines to label your container and, from my understanding, to cover the military markings. Of course, this is more important in urban hides, but I don't see where the guidelines say it's okay elsewhere, even if it would probably not raise a single eyebrow.

 

Nowhere in your quote of the guidelines does it say anything about removing any markings, it says it should be clearly labeled.

 

 

If you don't think of military markings as something that can be "perceived dangerous" since they appear on most ammo boxes (the item that could perceived by muggles as possibly dangerous), then you're right.

 

Read briansnat's quote. I simply think people are trying to ignore the intent of the guidelines. I'm not debating the true nature of ammo boxes, just the perception communicated to non-geocachers by the military markings that I feel the guidelines are addressing. Of course, most cachers would probably realize the danger isn't reality, only perception, and that's great, but that dismisses part of the reason for the guideline.

 

Of course, it's a hider's choice not to agree or abide by the guideline's intent, since they can claim it doesn't spell out that a specific part of an ammo box's "perceived danger" is the markings. It shouldn't have to, but obviously some won't believe it unless it does. That's fine. I just disagree. All of my hides are ammo boxes, some are camoed, and all are labeled because I think that's what the guidelines require. If I'm wrong, I don't see how it can hurt and some of the benefits were discussed earlier.

 

For owners in doubt, I would suggest asking a reviewer their opinion regarding ammo boxes' military markings and the guidelines next time they submit a cache. If they say no big deal (and maybe they would for caches hidden in the hills/forests), I'd be surprised, but more power to ya.

[+Team Dromomania]

I agree except I don't like verbal arguments. I'd just grab a can of day glow orange pant, find one of their caches and return the favor.

That's real mature. Frankly I think any cacher putting an ammunition container out in the wild with military markings on it is being irresponsible, especially around an urban environment, and is potentially endangering the game. But I obviously appear to be in the minority with my opinion and if that's the case, especially as a relatively newcomer to the game, I'll abide by the majority.

 

I wouldn't really paint another cacher's container. But I would "think" it. You don't pull on superman's cape and you don't fool with another cachers container without asking first (except perhaps repairing it).

 

For the last couple of years I have painted over my ammo cans. I do have a few placed earlier with all markings intact. I see no reason to take a several hour hike with a can of paint to those caches. I'd rather carry water to help get me there and back. With all kinds of disease carring insects, stinging insects, rattle snakes, bear, mountain lions and armed hunters of unknown training I have more things to worry about when caching in those areas than what my hidden can may say.

 

BTW, welcome to the world of geocaching. I truely hope that the differences expressed in this forum dosn't discourage you from a full enjoyment of the geocaching activity.

[Clan Riffster]

Find me one ammo box, Lock'n Lock, or Tupperware bomb. Just one.

The Olympic Park bomb? It was a pipe bomb, placed in a shrapnel filled Tupperware container, stuffed into a knapsack.

That's one!

 

Can you imagine this conversation?

(Dispatcher) "Seminole County Sheriff's Office. Is your emergancy police, fire or medical?"

(Goober) "I FOUND A BOMB!!!"

(Dispatcher) "Calm down ma'am. No need to shout. I can hear you just fine. What kind of device did you find?"

(Goober) "IT'S A BOMB!!!!!"

(Dispatcher) "OK, Ma'am. It's a bomb. I get that part. Can you describe it?"

(Goober) "IT'S A GREEN METAL BOX WITH WRITING ON IT!!!"

(Dispatcher) OK, Ma'am. Does the writing say it's a bomb?"

(Goober) "NO. IT SAYS IT'S FULL OF BULLETS!!! OH THE HUMANITY!!!"

(Dispatcher) "Uh...OK Ma'am. Why do you think it's a bomb?"

(Goober) "CUZ IT LOOKS LIKE A BOMB!!!"

(Dispatcher) "Hmmm...Uh, Ma'am, have you ever seen a bomb?"

(Goober) "DON'T INSULT ME!!! I KNOW A BOMB WHEN I SEE ONE!!! I WATCH CNN!!! IT'S A BOMB!!!"

(Dispatcher) "Yes Ma'am. It's a bomb. Can you tell me where it is?"

(Goober) "OF COURSE I CAN!!! TAKE THE HORSE TRAIL OFF OF SNOW HILL ROAD! GO ABOUT 5 MILES! IT'S IN A PATCH OF PALMETTOS!!!"

(Dispatcher) "Uh, Ma'am? Why would anybody want to blow up a bunch of palmettos, 5 miles deep in the woods?"

(Goober) "UH...... Uh...... er.......Hmmm.......IT'S A BOMB!!!"

[+sbell111]

When did bullets=bomb? I think this inequality is the thing that disturbs me most about this thread.

 

I'm trying to think back to the time before geocaching and I honestly think that if I was in the woods and wandered up on an ammo box with 'official' writing on it, I would pop that thing open out of curiosity, but I wouldn't expect it to be full of .50 caliber tracer rounds. I would wish it was, but I wouldn't expect it.

[+baloo&bd]

If you don't think of military markings as something that can be "perceived dangerous" since they appear on most ammo boxes (the item that could perceived by muggles as possibly dangerous), then you're right.

 

Finally! Something we can all agree on.

 

Read briansnat's quote. I simply think people are trying to ignore the intent of the guidelines.

 

Nobody's ignoring the intent, which as stated is to mark the containers appropriately. Neither however are we trying to read into or add to the intent that it meant to remove any frivolous or extraneous inconsequential markings.

 

Offer it as your recommendation, yeven your belief but please don't use guidelines as your reason. Some appear to have been confused enough by what is really written there.

[+sbell111]

I bet that of all the caches I've found, less than fifteen percent have been labelled as a geocache on the outside.

[+Teach2Learn]

If you don't think of military markings as something that can be "perceived dangerous" since they appear on most ammo boxes (the item that could perceived by muggles as possibly dangerous), then you're right.

 

Finally! Something we can all agree on.

 

Read briansnat's quote. I simply think people are trying to ignore the intent of the guidelines.

 

Nobody's ignoring the intent, which as stated is to mark the containers appropriately. Neither however are we trying to read into or add to the intent that it meant to remove any frivolous or extraneous inconsequential markings.

 

Offer it as your recommendation, yeven your belief but please don't use guidelines as your reason. Some appear to have been confused enough by what is really written there.

 

Obviously, I'm not alone in my belief that the military markings can be "perceived dangerous" if you read the first page of this thread. The first eight posts (with others to follow) concur that military markings need to be covered.

 

Briansnat stated military markings were "begging the bomb squad to be called in." That sure doesn't sound like he views the markings as "frivolous" or "inconsequential." Neither did others who called it "irresponsible" not to cover them. Considering briansnat's experience as a moderator/reviewer(?), I believe his opinion on such issues is credible and reflects the intent of the guidelines as stated. Thus, I see the need to say so to provide clarity, not propagate the confusion which actually allows people to do whatever they please in spite of consequences that can affect the larger caching community. Most of the disagreement in the thread resulted over whether anyone should take matters into their own hands and spray paint/cover others' hides. Hopefully, no one would do that. However, most agreed that markings shold be covered and provided examples/illustrations of how this could be done.

 

Again, if in doubt, ask the reviewers about military markings the next time you submit an ammo box hide for cache review. If it's not a problem (and it may not be for deep woods/mountain hikes), why would it hurt to ask? However, if it is the intent of the guidelines, you should abide by it. If I'm wrong, more power to ya, but as more than one cacher in this thread has stated, it's an "irresponsible" act as far as I'm concerned because it could hurt caching simply due to public perception. I would never write on, cover, or spray paint another owner's cache--I just want to create the best public reputation for caching. At this point, I feel like I'm echoing myself and many others, so I'll let it go and hope for the best.

Edited August 3, 2006 by Teach2Learn

[+sbell111]

Briansnat stated military markings were "begging the bomb squad to be called in." That sure doesn't sound like he views the markings as "frivolous" or "inconsequential." Neither did others who called it "irresponsible" not to cover them. Considering briansnat's experience as a moderator/reviewer(?), I believe his opinion on such issues is credible and reflects the intent of the guidelines as stated. Thus ...

Be careful with this one. Brian uses his mod account for personal posting. Any views that he has expressed may not be the official view of GC.com.

 

Either way, I believe this to be largely a non-issue.

[+CheshireFrog]

Obviously, I'm not alone in my belief that the military markings can be "perceived dangerous" if you read the first page of this thread. The first eight posts (with others to follow) concur that military markings need to be covered.

 

Do not mistake the forums for the real world.

 

Again, if in doubt, ask the reviewers about military markings the next time you submit an ammo box hide for cache review. If it's not a problem (and it may not be for deep woods/mountain hikes), why would it hurt to ask? However, if it is the intent of the guidelines, you should abide by it. If I'm wrong, more power to ya, but as more than one cacher in this thread has stated, it's an "irresponsible" act as far as I'm concerned because it could hurt caching simply due to public perception. I would never write on, cover, or spray paint another owner's cache--I just want to create the best public reputation for caching. At this point, I feel like I'm echoing myself and many others, so I'll let it go and hope for the best.

 

Approving containers is not a reviewer's job, and other than size the cache submission page doesn't even ask about containers. If I have complied with the guidelines regarding labeling the cache, why would I ask the reviewer any questions about my container?

[Clan Riffster]

Considering briansnat's experience as a moderator/reviewer(?), I believe his opinion on such issues is credible and reflects the intent of the guidelines as stated.

From reading Jeremy's posts, I've concluded that he's got a pretty good handle on this whole "writing in English" thingy. I believe that, if he intended to say "Cover all military markings" in the guidelines, he could probably manage to do so. The fact that he did not state that in his guidelines would certainly indicate that it was not his intent to do so.

 

On a side note: I still advocate painting over the military markings on my caches, but not because I've misinterpreted the guidelines.

[+Teach2Learn]

Briansnat stated military markings were "begging the bomb squad to be called in." That sure doesn't sound like he views the markings as "frivolous" or "inconsequential." Neither did others who called it "irresponsible" not to cover them. Considering briansnat's experience as a moderator/reviewer(?), I believe his opinion on such issues is credible and reflects the intent of the guidelines as stated. Thus ...

Be careful with this one. Brian uses his mod account for personal posting. Any views that he has expressed may not be the official view of GC.com.

 

Either way, I believe this to be largely a non-issue.

 

sbell111:

Good point about briansnat's postings...I'll try to honor that and hope I didn't cross any boundaries as that certainly wan't my intention. I would also agree that it's usually a non-issue and hopefully won't rear its ugly head in the form of an over reactive muggle. For me, I view it as better safe than sorry.

 

cheshire frog:

--Unfortunately, I think the problem is primarily with the "real world." I concur with Renegade Knight's earlier assessment: we shouldn't have to do anything to the ammo boxes because there's no real danger, but too many real-world muggles don't realize that. We don't have to like or agree with their skewed perception, but it still exists. I think the best way to deal with it is to label the container and cover the markings.

--Since the idea of a container's "perceived danger" is part of the "Hiding/Seeking a Cache" guidelines, I do think that a reviewer appreciates knowing that it is labeled (with military markings covered IMO ) and that the place to include such info belongs in the "Notes to Reviewer." One reviewer sent me an email thanking me for providing such details. However, you're right that it's not required info to submit.

 

Enough of my ramblings...let's go hide some caches!

[+CheshireFrog]

--Unfortunately, I think the problem is primarily with the "real world." I concur with Renegade Knight's earlier assessment: we shouldn't have to do anything to the ammo boxes because there's no real danger, but too many real-world muggles don't realize that. We don't have to like or agree with their skewed perception, but it still exists. I think the best way to deal with it is to label the container and cover the markings.

 

My last thought on this:

 

We've had had the EOD team here respond three times this year to caches identified as possible bombs. All three were cylindrical tubes painted either black or camouflaged. I've never heard of an ammo box being called in as a bomb anywhere.

 

A person who is likely to call in a bomb scare on an ammo box is likely to do so without ever getting close enough to read either the military markings or the geocaching sticker, They are also likely to call in scares on any other cache they see in the wild.

 

Those with experience in such things will tell you that:

 

A Bison tube closely resembles a bullet.

 

A lock -n- lock cube closely resembles the crate C4 comes in.

 

Cool Whip tubs are the right size (if maybe a little too tall) to be easily mistaken for unburied land mines.

 

In short, nothing we do will prevent caches from being reported as suspicious devices, including putting stickers on them. Muggles do not generally call in ammo cans, in my experience they steal them. Ammo cans will probably always be in the minority of caches reported, because they tend to be far away from urban settings.

[+sbell111]

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Around here folks would be more suspicious of an ammo box if the markings WERE painted over.

On a side note containers should be properly labeled, about 23 years ago I took a job building a bridge for the railroad. One day I was in the job trailer looking for some tool and I found a red box that said something loke "Danger, blasting caps".

I thought "yea, right, why would they leave blasting caps lying around in an insecure jobtrailer, they'd keep them locked up tight somewhere.". So I opened the box, darned if it wasn't filled to the brim with blasting caps!. Labels do matter.

[+Fish Below The Ice]

--Unfortunately, I think the problem is primarily with the "real world." I concur with Renegade Knight's earlier assessment: we shouldn't have to do anything to the ammo boxes because there's no real danger, but too many real-world muggles don't realize that. We don't have to like or agree with their skewed perception, but it still exists. I think the best way to deal with it is to label the container and cover the markings.

For example:

 

***** Mar 18th - Just got word from the Army (yes, ARMY) that the cache (an old ammo container) was confiscated. I've now spoken to the C. G. Meek (CD Chief Warrant Officer, Regimental Sergeant-Major,2 Field Engineer Regiment- quite the title) and I'll be picking up the cache from him. After a couple modifications (ie..spraypaint over the original stencilling) the cache will be returned to the hiding spot... Watch for the return first week in April.****

 

dave

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

--Unfortunately, I think the problem is primarily with the "real world." I concur with Renegade Knight's earlier assessment: we shouldn't have to do anything to the ammo boxes because there's no real danger, but too many real-world muggles don't realize that. We don't have to like or agree with their skewed perception, but it still exists. I think the best way to deal with it is to label the container and cover the markings.

For example:

 

***** Mar 18th - Just got word from the Army (yes, ARMY) that the cache (an old ammo container) was confiscated. I've now spoken to the C. G. Meek (CD Chief Warrant Officer, Regimental Sergeant-Major,2 Field Engineer Regiment- quite the title) and I'll be picking up the cache from him. After a couple modifications (ie..spraypaint over the original stencilling) the cache will be returned to the hiding spot... Watch for the return first week in April.****

 

dave

 

If that were mine, I'd ask the Seargent Major if he had any extra ammo cans to go with it.

[Clan Riffster]

Ditto

[+Clyde1140]

--Unfortunately, I think the problem is primarily with the "real world." I concur with Renegade Knight's earlier assessment: we shouldn't have to do anything to the ammo boxes because there's no real danger, but too many real-world muggles don't realize that. We don't have to like or agree with their skewed perception, but it still exists. I think the best way to deal with it is to label the container and cover the markings.

 

My last thought on this:

 

We've had had the EOD team here respond three times this year to caches identified as possible bombs. All three were cylindrical tubes painted either black or camouflaged. I've never heard of an ammo box being called in as a bomb anywhere.

 

A person who is likely to call in a bomb scare on an ammo box is likely to do so without ever getting close enough to read either the military markings or the geocaching sticker, They are also likely to call in scares on any other cache they see in the wild.

 

Those with experience in such things will tell you that:

 

A Bison tube closely resembles a bullet.

 

A lock -n- lock cube closely resembles the crate C4 comes in.

 

Cool Whip tubs are the right size (if maybe a little too tall) to be easily mistaken for unburied land mines.

 

In short, nothing we do will prevent caches from being reported as suspicious devices, including putting stickers on them. Muggles do not generally call in ammo cans, in my experience they steal them. Ammo cans will probably always be in the minority of caches reported, because they tend to be far away from urban settings.

A bison tube looks like a turn of the century large bore round kind of in passing, but nothing modern. And thats an iffy one.

 

I have opened and used a whole lot of C-4 and never seen it in a container that looked like a lock-n-lock.............

 

But a cool whip container is almost like a TC6 but it has smooth sides with no ribs. That is a good idea for a training aid however if I fill one with cement.

[CoyoteRed]

A bison tube looks like...

 

But that's only for those "in the know." Those who would know the difference probably aren't the ones that are going to be calling in a bomb scare.

 

The funny thing is, folks are going to call in an ammo can, 5 gallon bucket, a PVC pipe, or a decon box a lot faster than a knapsack, an illegally parked rental van, or a package left next to the front door. Guess which ones have been the bombs?

 

I find it really sad that so many Americans have fallen for the politics of fear. The funding is a lot higher for anti-terrorism than for cancer yet the deaths from cancer is something like the equivalent of a 9/11 every week or a Jumbo Jet crashing every other day.

 

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." Hermann Göring

 

Is there a danger from foreign terrorist? Sure there is, but you're much more likely to battle cancer, local crime, or the freeway. Maybe we ought get our priorities straight.

 

</rant>

 

Personally, marking a cache is not primarily to avoid the water canon. It's more to let folks know it's there for a reason, what it's for, and how to contact us if it needs to be removed. In other words, it's more for accidental finders' education and less of a defense mechanism.

[+team moxiepup]

We've camoed the ammo cans we've used, and have used the geocache stickers on all but one. On the one, I have the website address in small letters. The camo job itself (theoretically) allays fear of it being a bomb.

 

On all of them, the first thing I did was to "prepare" the can's surface. For this I used "Goof-off". This completely and easily removes all of the yellow markings from ammo cans. (Keep rubbing, and you'll start to remove the green paint as well!)

 

If anyone is looking for an easy way to get rid of the military markingson their established caches, without lugging painting materials out into the field, you can carry a small bottle of Goof-off and a paper towel and have the job done in less than a minute!

[russell2pi]

Interesting discussion. FWIW, as an aside, small arms ammunition is not "explosive". If one goes off outside of a firearm, it is dangerous but does not explode like a bomb, nor does the bullet leave with nearly the energy of one fired out of a gun, because the pressure doesn't build up enough before the bullet comes out. Agree though that some people who don't know any better may become alarmed at finding an ammo can with markings... even though the govt sells them off without painting them over.