Can Geocaching.com & Garmin/mapsource Just Get Along?

[+infiniteMPG]

When I mark coordinates for a new cache and the related waypoints with my Garmin GPS MAP60C I then download them toe MapSource (6.11.1). I get the coordinates the same as I see them on my GPS :

 

DEGRESS DECIMAL MINUTES ie- N27 12.345 W082 12.345

 

When I go to enter them in for a new cache listing I have to enter the degrees in one box and the minutes in another box for each directions. Four entries to enter the coordinates, and four times the chances to mis-type something (or have to cut and paste four times).

 

Unless Magellan GPS's or others have stuff totally different why can't Geocaching.com be set up to accept the coordinates the way it comes out of the GPS software? At least enter the N and W coordinates as two entires rather then four. That is the most critical entry for a cache and yet it's set up just asking for typo of numbers.

 

Also, when you get the info back from Geocaching.com you get the degrees symbol. Once again I don't know Magellan or others but Garmin doesn't use the little degree symbol so if you do a direct cut and paste you get the degree symbol and you have to edit that out before MapSource will accept the coordinate (it doesn't recognize the degree symbol in the coordinate valve... go figure!!!).

 

Not sure of the task involved but if Geocaching.com and outfits like Garmin/MapSource could get on the same page it would make things a lot less likely for us lowly users to mis-enter coordinates either inputting them to our GPS's or uploading them for cache listings.

 

I'll step down off my soapbox now.... )

 

Thanks,

Scott

aka - infiniteMPG

[+Tharagleb]

When I go to enter them in for a new cache listing I have to enter the degrees in one box and the minutes in another box for each directions.

 

It takes about 10 seconds to do this and another 10 to double check your numbers. It seems a lot of people skip the second step.

 

Also, when you get the info back from Geocaching.com you get the degrees symbol.

 

You should be downloading a .loc or .gpx not cutting and pasting, this leaves NO room for error.

Edited July 10, 2006 by Tharagleb

[+Lil Devil]

Also, when you get the info back from Geocaching.com you get the degrees symbol. Once again I don't know Magellan or others but Garmin doesn't use the little degree symbol so if you do a direct cut and paste you get the degree symbol and you have to edit that out before MapSource will accept the coordinate (it doesn't recognize the degree symbol in the coordinate valve... go figure!!!).

Complain to Garmin about that. Maybe if enough of us complain, they might actually fix it

[+infiniteMPG]

>>It takes about 10 seconds to do this and another 10 to double check your numbers. It seems a lot of people skip the second step.

 

Not worried about the time as much as the potential of mis-typing a coord.

 

>>You should be downloading a .loc or .gpx not cutting and pasting, this leaves NO room for error.

 

That's fine and we do that for getting from geocaching.com to the GPS, I am referring to getting from the GPS to a new cache listing. The GPS, Mapsource and all that has the two coord components which make up the location but geocaching needs you to put degrees in one text box and decimal minutes into a seperate text box. This means either 4 copy and pastes or manually type it. I just wish that geocaching and Garmin would make it so they would both accept the other's data in it's natural state

[+fizzymagic]

When I go to enter them in for a new cache listing I have to enter the degrees in one box and the minutes in another box for each directions.

It takes about 10 seconds to do this and another 10 to double check your numbers.

For a touch-typist, perhaps. Takes us mortals considerably longer. I usually have the coordinates in a text file somewhere, and copy-and-paste the pieces into the 4 input boxes. I've timed it, and it takes about 30 seconds, which is about 25 seconds longer than it would for a good user interface.

 

You should be downloading a .loc or .gpx not cutting and pasting, this leaves NO room for error.

<sacrcasm> You can upload coordinates to the site using a GPX file? I was not aware of that! </sarcasm>

 

I have offered the very flexible coordinate-parsing code from Geocalc to TPTB a couple of times, but have never received a response. Reading free-form coordinates is really not that hard.

 

Unfortunately, nobody else seems to care that coordinate entry is so awkward and error-prone, so it's unlikely that the input pages will ever be fixed. It's one reason that I don't use the "additional waypoints" feature of the site very much; and it's one of the reasons I find the various coordinate-checking sites all but useless.

[+Raine]

Fizzy Fizzy Fizzy.. welcome back!

 

So, send me the code already and we'll see what we can do.

 

-Raine

[+Amtraker]

This means either 4 copy and pastes or manually type it. I just wish that geocaching and Garmin would make it so they would both accept the other's data in it's natural state

There really is no "natural" state for coordinates.

 

Garmin MapSource supports TONS of formats for coordinates. Geocaching.Com supports only 3 formats for creating a new cache. You can reduce your copy and paste operations in half if you do the following...

 

On Geocaching.Com Report/Edit a Cache page select Coordinate fromat:

 

"Decimal Degrees (DegDec)"

 

That will give you four boxes:

 

[N/S] [00.000000]

[W/E] [000.000000]

 

On Garmin MapSource

Select Edit -> Preferences...

Select the Position tab

Change the Grid: to "La/Lon hddd.ddddd"

Press OK

 

Now your coordinates in MapSource will appear like:

 

N33.64845 W117.94303

 

Now you only have to copy/paste "33.64845" and "117.94303" into the TWO boxes on Geocaching.Com

[+palmetto]

In the short term, the Decimal Degrees solution is good one. In the long term I sure hope Raine and Fizzy Magic are confabulating on incorporating the "very flexible coordinate-parsing code from Geocalc " into the site at this very moment.

 

Prime's script will auto load a bunch of thetext fields in the waypoint's tool - but not the coords. I do wish it would auto-load the parent listing coords for starters, so the edit (most of the time) would start at the minutes. Though the waypoints tool errors if you load the parent coords for some reason.

[+Tharagleb]

When I go to enter them in for a new cache listing I have to enter the degrees in one box and the minutes in another box for each directions.

It takes about 10 seconds to do this and another 10 to double check your numbers.

For a touch-typist, perhaps. Takes us mortals considerably longer. I usually have the coordinates in a text file somewhere, and copy-and-paste the pieces into the 4 input boxes. I've timed it, and it takes about 30 seconds, which is about 25 seconds longer than it would for a good user interface.

 

You should be downloading a .loc or .gpx not cutting and pasting, this leaves NO room for error.

<sacrcasm> You can upload coordinates to the site using a GPX file? I was not aware of that! </sarcasm>

I have offered the very flexible coordinate-parsing code from Geocalc to TPTB a couple of times, but have never received a response. Reading free-form coordinates is really not that hard.

 

Unfortunately, nobody else seems to care that coordinate entry is so awkward and error-prone, so it's unlikely that the input pages will ever be fixed. It's one reason that I don't use the "additional waypoints" feature of the site very much; and it's one of the reasons I find the various coordinate-checking sites all but useless.

 

I was referring to this, keep your sarcasm to yourself

 

Also, when you get the info back from Geocaching.com you get the degrees symbol.

 

The *real* problem is people won't even take the time to map their new caches and see if they put them in the ocean or on top of a house.

[+sbell111]

I'm a little lost.

 

As far as I can tell, this thread is about taking an extra twenty seconds when reporting a new cache? Therefore, if the average cacher owns six caches, they will 'waste' an extra 2 minutes in their lifetime?

 

Wow. We have to hurry and find a solution for this very important problem.

[+Maingray]

That and saving the first (DN)finders a lot of their time and hassle when searching the wrong co-ords.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Maingray

[+mini cacher]

I'm a little lost.

 

As far as I can tell, this thread is about taking an extra twenty seconds when reporting a new cache? Therefore, if the average cacher owns six caches, they will 'waste' an extra 2 minutes in their lifetime?

 

Wow. We have to hurry and find a solution for this very important problem.

well... the "4 box" entry method is in a lot more places than just submitting a new cache. Its in the PQ creation page and "Hide and Seek a Cache " page. Searching for caches is something that people do a lot more than submitting caches, so I suspect it wastes a bit more than 2 minutes of their lifetime. I'm not saying that the issue needs to pull every Groundspeak programming resource to get it solved... but it is a great annoyance to many people. I would be one of them.

[+OienLabs]

From time to time I uses Fizzy's geocalc to find the distance from a to b pasting in the coordinates in the format DEGRESS DECIMAL MINUTES for both latitude and longitude in just ONE paste pr. position.

 

I will not say that this is particulary brilliant (or maybe it is), but most other graphical user interface solutions sucks. Good thing -Raine will have a look at this now.

[+fizzymagic]

That and saving the first (DN)finders a lot of their time and hassle when searching the wrong co-ords.

Ignore him. Consider what kind of person is willing to make the effort to write a post telling somebody that their concerns don't matter.

 

GeoCalc can parse coordinates in a variety of formats. You might try it. It can do:

• Decimal degrees (with either N and W or signed latitude and longitude)
  
• DDD MM.MMM format (N and W either before or after the coordinate)
  
• Native geocaching.com format (skips the degree character properly)
  
• DD MM SS.SS format (including Google Earth format)
  
• UTM
  

This change is not, perhaps, the most important thing ever, but it would sure make life more pleasant!

[+LeGodFather]

GeoCalc can parse coordinates in a variety of formats.

I love it and thank you for it!

[+sbell111]

That and saving the first (DN)finders a lot of their time and hassle when searching the wrong co-ords.

Ignore him. Consider what kind of person is willing to make the effort to write a post telling somebody that their concerns don't matter.

You know, I respect you. I've defended you on a number of occasions and defered to your opinion on technical issues. However, sometimes you come off as an incredible pain.

 

That being said, the point of my post is that the issue itself does not appear to be so big that it would deserve much programming effort, since those finite resources would have to be taken off other projects.

[+Maeglin]

That being said, the point of my post is that the issue itself does not appear to be so big that it would deserve much programming effort, since those finite resources would have to be taken off other projects.

Hell, I'd write it for them, having done that kind of thing as well... oh, right, they're using that M$ trash. PHP is what I speak

[+StarBrand]

Wow - 90 caches submitted and I have never once copied and pasted anything via software. I just pull it up on my GPS (Garmin - 3 different models) and take 20 odd seconds to enter them on the form. Only once did I transpose anything. I have to semi-agree with sbell - just doesn't seem like such a big deal to me. But hey, if it saves anybody some time or anybody else wasted time at wrong coordinates I guess it might be a good thing. I guess.

[+DocDiTTo]

 

I have offered the very flexible coordinate-parsing code from Geocalc to TPTB a couple of times, but have never received a response. Reading free-form coordinates is really not that hard.

 

Unfortunately, nobody else seems to care that coordinate entry is so awkward and error-prone, so it's unlikely that the input pages will ever be fixed. It's one reason that I don't use the "additional waypoints" feature of the site very much; and it's one of the reasons I find the various coordinate-checking sites all but useless.

 

Would you consider making such parsing code available to other developers? I'd love to see other apps that use coord entry (such as GSAK) accept coords the way geocalc does. Perhaps making such a routine available to interested parties would make life easier for all of us on a number of levels. It's so nice to be able to copy and paste one coord string and have smart software parse it, regardless of the format. Kudos for taking the time and effort to add that functionality to your program to begin with.

[+mini cacher]

I have offered the very flexible coordinate-parsing code from Geocalc to TPTB a couple of times, but have never received a response. Reading free-form coordinates is really not that hard.

Perhaps a little nudge at Prime Suspect can get that code into the form a GreaseMonkey script. I've written a few but he seems to be the master GM scripter around here.

[+fizzymagic]

I have offered the very flexible coordinate-parsing code from Geocalc to TPTB a couple of times, but have never received a response. Reading free-form coordinates is really not that hard.

Would you consider making such parsing code available to other developers? I'd love to see other apps that use coord entry (such as GSAK) accept coords the way geocalc does.

The code for GeoCalc has always been available here and it is open-source with a GPL license. The guts of the coordinate parsing, distance calculation, and projection code is in platform-agnostic C++ in Coord.zip. It's been successfully compiled on Windows, Linux, and MacOS. There is somebody currently working on porting GeoCalc to PalmOS, too.

 

Feel free to use it!