Cache Permissions

[+Geo-Kate]

Do all caches placed need permission, or just those on private land etc.?

 

I always thought caches placed on public or common ground, like a park or field or woodlands managed by the local council, with no particualr ownership to any organisation, is fair game just to pace and publish.

 

However, a few threads or comments I have read recently seems to indicate that all cached, no matter where they are, need permission from somebody. Is this so?

 

I know there have been other topics touching on this, but I would kinda like an easy answer. Sorry if it seems I am starting pointless threads

 

Thanks!

 

Edited for typo

Edited April 7, 2006 by Geo-Kate

[+Learned Gerbil]

In the UK there is no public land. Someone owns it, even if it is described as "common" land.

[+Geo-Kate]

In the UK there is no public land. Someone owns it, even if it is described as "common" land.

 

Does that mean every single cache, no matter where it is, needs permission to hide it?

[+John Stead]

In the UK there is no public land. Someone owns it, even if it is described as "common" land.

 

Does that mean every single cache, no matter where it is, needs permission to hide it?

 

Yes

[+Geo-Kate]

In the UK there is no public land. Someone owns it, even if it is described as "common" land.

 

Does that mean every single cache, no matter where it is, needs permission to hide it?

 

Yes

 

Oh OK, thanks

[+Malpas Wanderer]

Do all caches placed need permission, or just those on private land etc.?

 

 

All land is owned by someone and in an ideal world permission of the landowner should be sought for any intrusion on the land.

 

But do we live in an ideal world?

 

I think you need to consider what would be the consequences be should a cache cause damage, offence or other disturbance and if you could suitably defend your actions.

 

In Law flytipping and dropping litter is an offence. Obtaining permission would alleviate any accusation of a cache pertaining to litter.

 

Question your conscience on any placement but also place as many caches as you are able as we all enjoy finding them.

 

Regards

 

Colin

[+The Other Stu]

OK, I'll put my head above the parapet then (and get ready to get shot down)

 

I do understand all the legal implications and owners rights, but (and it's a big but), aren't we in danger of someone else starting a similar scheme and having it unregulated again if we make it too difficult to place caches?

 

I know that the GeocacheUK GAGB team are very, very busy trying to get as many land-owners buy-in as possible (and it's a very slow process) and I'm not saying I'm advocating an unregulated scheme, I'm just saying what some people are thinking.

 

Stu

Edited April 7, 2006 by SSC&B

[+adambro]

If what you mean is if a similar activity to geocaching starts up and places 'caches' in good spots then I don't see the problem. Since it is a different activity they won't be a requirement on our part to make sure there isn't one of these other caches within 0.1 miles. It seems like you are suggesting we should mark every half decent piece of land with a cache just in case some others start placing. This clearly is quite irresponsible and land owners will eventually find out about it and be annoyed that they're weren't approached for permission just because some other group wouldn't bother.

 

As has been said, there isn't really any public land as such in the UK, its owned by someone so what you need to do is make a good effort to find out the owner and seek their permission. However, there are situations where there really isn't a individual to ask so it just needs your judgement as to whether it would be appropriate.

[+John Stead]

I know that the GeocacheUK team are very, very busy trying to get as many land-owners buy-in as possible

 

Stu

 

I think you mean GAGB.

But the whole point is responsibility - of course all caches have not had permission, certainly my earlier ones did not, but the more there are the greater the risk of us upsetting someone and thus getting our game/sport/obsession a bad name.

[+Malpas Wanderer]

 

I do understand all the legal implications and owners rights, but (and it's a big but), aren't we in danger of someone else starting a similar scheme and having it unregulated again if we make it too difficult to place caches?

 

Stu

 

I think with about 10000 caches already in existence in the UK not all will have explicit permissions or are ever likely to.

 

We have however seen an unwisely placed cache on the "other side of the pond" that instigated a full scale bomb alert.

 

I would just advise the principle Think! Think! & Think again before placing any cache.

 

We all love a nicely hidden cache but just consider the surroundings and how they might cange in the course of time.

 

I have recently visited caches that are within a few feet of Pheasant feeders simply placed but which was there first? Many of us will be bringing dogs into such an area are all well controlled? Will the Landowner just laugh off his loss of income if birds or shooting days are lost?

 

Is a recent micro placement on a Highway Roundabout an Ideal cache site? Will an unaccompanied child be safe with this cache?

 

Consider also any implications from wrongly solved puzzles or input co-ordinates.

 

THINK THINK THINK wider than the immediate cache site but please do PLACE AS MANY CACHES AS YOU CAN permission remaining a matter of conscience.

 

 

Colin

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

Past history has shown us the consequences of placing caches without the Landowner/Managers permission. You Only have do a search about New Forest caches to see what can happen.

 

For those who are not aware of what happened. Basicly 17 caches were placed in the New Forest by several cachers. When the New Forest Rangers found out about these caches, they uplifted all of them without informing anyone. A committee member from GAGB started negotiating with the New Forest Rangers for permission to place caches. It was only after 12 months of negotiations that the New Forest admit that they had the containers and returned them. It took over 12 months more for negotiations to come to a successful conclusion.

 

There have been instances of other areas put out of bounds due to the placement of caches without permission. These not affected the placer but the community as a whole, as it involved other sites as well, owned or managed by the same person or group.

 

The work of GAGB and individual cachers in obtaining permission can be ruined by the action of just one person placing a cache without permission.

 

Dave

[+The Other Stu]

I'm with all of you on this.

 

What I wasn't condoning was the placement of caches in bad places, in fact I wasn't condoning anything at all.

 

It was more a discussion point about whether geocaching.com is outgrowing itself?

 

And for my next apology, I meant GAGB not geocacheUK

Edited April 7, 2006 by SSC&B

[+John Stead]

And for my next apology, I meant GAGB not geocacheUK

 

Easily done - no apology really needed but gratefully accepted.

[+wigglesworth]

Occasionally we are confronted by a farmer or other 'local official' and it would be great to know just how open you can be. Clearly if permisson has been given then there is no issue explaining why you are there!

 

A recent example for us was where we parked the car and the farmer explained a large truck was coming so requested we park elesewhere. He even suggested that we park on the farm land further up the lane where we would be well out of the way of the special wide load.

 

Peter

[+catkin555]

As a newbie I'm about to ask what may be a fairly daft question....

 

How do I go about finding out who to ask for permission to place a cache?

 

Whilst walking the dog in various woods and along public footpaths, i've found a few sites that look to be great hiding spots but I have no idea who owns the land!!

 

Here's hoping someone will enlighten me!

 

With kind regards,

 

Cat.

[+MMattyK]

An extremely good question

 

I'm in the process of attempting to place a cache on some National Trust land, (as shown on the OS Map), and contacted the National Trust property manager who gave his permission, BUT subsequently discovered that it is not always the landowner that can give permission, as English Heritage decided to have their two penneth over the placement so until that is resolved I have archived my cache...

 

Who can say, for example, who owns hedgerows along public rights of way for example, where multitudes of caches are hidden... is it the the local council, the parish council, the county council, the highways agency, the farmers field alongside the right of way etc? and where can we (the 'royal' we) find out, without having to spend loads of time and money in the process?

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

Time, detective work and lots and lots of patience is the key to success. Where you looking at a Right of Way, go and ask the local farmers or house holds nearby, as the chances are that the land the RoW crosses belongs to one of them (remember even the land that is the RoW is owned by the land owner). Parish councils, County Councils Country Side Officers and RoW/Access Officers are other valuable sources. Go to your local Library and ask to see the Definitive Land Map which will show the registered land owners (you might have to make a appointment to see it). It has never cost me much in the way of monetary expenditure, making contact with landowners, just a few emails and letters accompanied by the Introduction to Geocaching Document. And lots of time and patience as I've been passed from one person to another until making contact with the right person. Also try asking local cachers to see if they know. Another font of knowledge to cultivate, is the Chairman of the County Councils PA, he/she will know which person in the council to contact about various requests.

 

Dave

[+wizard1974uk]

You can also check out the GAGB site:

 

www.gagb.org.uk

Edited April 9, 2006 by wizard1974uk

[+Bear and Ragged]

Had my eye on a cache, as I know the area it's in-and would be a nice walk to find, but two cachers placed the following logs (edited)

 

1st log "...when I grabbed for the cache a landlord or whoever came along by car a squeezed me out about my intention. Blablablablubbb...yes no, sorry....Conclusion: I would stay off private property he mentioned."

 

2nd log "...along came the farmer in his landrover to see what was wrong - time for a sharp exit."

 

To which the cache setter has Disabled the cache, with the comment "Decided to disable this one as the last two logs have had a problem."

 

 

Now, to me, this says that the cache has no permission to be there, and is making it awkward for cachers out to find it.

 

G

[+Boardslider]

This is a timely thread, I am in the process of setting a couple of caches which I hope will be live for the bank holiday weekend.

 

Anyway, I know the land is NT so I follow the guidelines onthe GAGB site and contact the relevent warden, who is very amiable and even knows a little bit about geocaching (thinks he read about it sometime), so it seems I have permission. I will be emailing him photos of the locations and offering to walk the sites with him as he seems interested.

 

However, during the course of our converstaion it seems he is completly in the dark about two other caches 'on his patch': now to be fair, I was speaking to No.2 warden as No.1 is on holiday but he is sure that if one knew they all would. So it might be fair to assume permission was never sought for these. BTW he wasn't unduly bothered, but quite curious.

 

This got me thinking, because there are two others within a few miles, where I'm pretty certain the land owner would not give permission if asked (a long story of other issues with that estate), so I'm wondering how many of the caches out there - especially the more recent ones which are popping up even faster have got permission? Could it be that someone knows there's one on the patch, assumes permission is granted for that and then further assumes it to be blanket approval for more?