Patch Vs Quad-helix

[+TeamHardK]

I'm new to this whole geo-caching thing and I'm trying to decide between the GPSMAP 60 and the eTrex Legend C. Both are in my price range and both have the features I want (I'd prefer the GPSMAP 60C over the 60, but don't have the cash). I'm planning on using my GPSr to geocache in and around Toronto, and also for mountain biking around Barrie and possibly some camping in Algonquin. I figure on the streets of Toronto the patch won't give me any problems, but how useful is it in the more wooded areas?

[+team fuzzybunny]

I wouldn't base my decision solely on which unit had which antenna. To the average person it won't make a big difference. I'd base my decision on other things like price, color screen, mapping features, or size.

Edited February 17, 2006 by team fuzzybunny

[Alphawolf]

Of all the differences between those two units you are comparing, the antenna is absolutely the last thing on the list I would be worrying about. If I put 10 receivers in your hand, 5 with one type of antenna and 5 with the other, and started you towards the same point with all 10, one at a time, you wouldn't be able to seperate them into the 2 groups based on the performance you just witnessed. Anyone that tells you different hasn't ran the drill I just described.

Edited February 18, 2006 by Alphawolf

[jcc123]

quad is definately better...

 

with the patch antenna you'll have to keep the darn thing facing up all the time if you don't want to loose the lock. quad is much easier to deal with.

Edited February 18, 2006 by jcc123

[peter]

I agree with everyone above except jcc: there should be very little difference in reception between the two units you're considering. Some have reported slightly better results with the 60, but I've seen at least as many who had slightly better reception with the LegendC (and while it works best when horizontal it's not particularly sensitive to orientation).

 

So make the decision on other grounds. Both have USB interfaces, but the 60 also has an RS232 port that supports standard NMEA messages. Not an issue for most, but the RS232 port would be important if you ever want to connect the unit to certain other types of electronics such as marine VHF radios (new models can send the GPS position direct to the Coast Guard on distress calls), EPIRB emergency locators, chartplotters, auto-pilots, HAM radio APRS sets, etc. The 60 also has a jack for an external antenna and a very slightly larger screen.

 

OTOH, the color screen of the LegendC is very nice and that unit has a more pocketable shape. It can also be powered through the USB connection.

[+jacques0]

with the patch antenna you'll have to keep the darn thing facing up all the time if you don't want to loose the lock. quad is much easier to deal with.

 

Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. The whole "keeping faced up" thing is way too misunderstood. A gpsr with a patch antenna can be held at a comfortable viewing angle, and there is absolutely no need to hold it in an uncomfortable horizontal position.

 

Look at any discussion threads here about the eXplorists (patch antenna) and you will find that the receiver is equally (perhaps more) important than the type of antenna. The current generation of patch/receiver combos are among the best out there.

[jcc123]

ok, I'll talk about my experience. My very first GPS was a Garmin Vista with a patch antenna. It was nice when it first came out but it was a real pain the the butt to have to hold the darn thing in the hand facing up. When ever the thing was left alone such as strapping it to the backpack or in a vertical position, I would loose the lock or I would get intermittent lock which would later show up as broken tracks. When they released the 60CS I sold my Vista and bought that and I never had a problem loosinig a lock because of the position of the GPS again. It was the best decision I made. Now with the 60CSx, I again sold my 60CS and upgraded. Again, a great decision considering the SiRF III is about 10 time more sensitive.

 

Anyway, I don't see how anyone with any real experience between the two types of antennas could claim that one is NOT clearly superior to the other.

Edited February 18, 2006 by jcc123

[+ghs]

I'm wondering if jcc123 likes to use his GPSr upside down? The following might be of interest.

 

http://www.gpsinformation.org/joe/gpsantennaspecs.htm

[+ghs]

ok, I'll talk about my experience. My very first GPS was a Garmin Vista with a patch antenna. It was nice when it first came out but it was a real pain the the butt to have to hold the darn thing in the hand facing up. When ever the thing was left alone such as strapping it to the backpack or in a vertical position, I would loose the lock or I would get intermittent lock which would later show up as broken tracks. When they released the 60CS I sold my Vista and bought that and I never had a problem loosinig a lock because of the position of the GPS again. It was the best decision I made. Now with the 60CSx, I again sold my 60CS and upgraded. Again, a great decision considering the SiRF III is about 10 time more sensitive.

 

Anyway, I don't see how anyone with any real experience between the two types of antennas could claim that one is NOT clearly superior to the other.

 

I'm not sure you didn't make too large of a generalization. My 6 year old emap has a patch antenna. I don't have to hold it horizontal to keep a lock.

[+jacques0]

We've had opposite experiences, I guess. I can walk about with my explorist in my shirt pocket (i.e., upright and with my body blocking an entire hemisphere) and I maintain lock and have no problems. Granted, once I take it out of my pocket, I quickly attain greater signal strength from the sat's that had been behind me, but there is no break in my track. I had a Mag. Sportrak Pro (quad) for awhile and never had as good a performance as from my explorist. I returned the STP.

 

I still think that the newer patch/receiver combos are every bit as good as (perhaps even better) than the quads, and certainly not a deal-breaker as far as choosing between units. I realize, however, that this debate has raged on without agreement for a long time, and I don't plan to drag it on too long here. Perhaps others can weigh in with their experiences.

[jcc123]

That's what's great about the 60 series. you can have it anyway you like. with the new SiRF III, it doesn't even need to have line of sight. you can't say that about ANY of the eTrex series. The eTrex series is like a toy whereas the 60x series is a tool.

 

I can't comment on the Magellans but I think they use the smaller quad antennas that's internal to the units? The 60 series have the huge quads that stick out like walkie talkie. There's no way that the little patch antennas in the eTrex could compare.

Edited February 18, 2006 by jcc123

[+Renegade Knight]

In the days old it made a difference. Garmins GPS units with the quad were better than the patch under tree cover and patch was better near vertical surfaces such as cliffs, rock faces, buildings etc.

 

However newer GPSs are more sensative and capable of reception than the olders ones regardless of the antanea.

 

So pick the GPS that better fits your needs. Of those two I'd get the Legend C. The GPS 60 is scaled back a bit from what it should be (It should be a black and white 60C but they cut out other features..)

[+Airmapper]

Anybody in here used a Lowrance? They have patch antennas, and are excellent at holding a lock. They can be held at a comfortable angle in your hand, flat, or at an angle doesn't matter. Holding it straight up decreases the signal a little, but it will still hold lock.

[Alphawolf]

The eTrex series is like a toy whereas the 60x series is a tool.

 

Oh brother...Now I've heard it all. Tell you what... You take a "tool" and I'll take a "toy" and let's see if you get to the coordinates one bit faster than I do. Geeeezzzz...I've heard everything I thought I could hear from GPS customers for 7 years now, but thats the first time I've heard an Etrex called a "toy".

[+Renegade Knight]

The eTrex series is like a toy whereas the 60x series is a tool.

 

Oh brother...Now I've heard it all. Tell you what... You take a "tool" and I'll take a "toy" and let's see if you get to the coordinates one bit faster than I do. Geeeezzzz...I've heard everything I thought I could hear from GPS customers for 7 years now, but thats the first time I've heard an Etrex called a "toy".

 

And here I thought the Gecko was a toy.

[vagabond]

quad is definately better...

 

with the patch antenna you'll have to keep the darn thing facing up all the time if you don't want to loose the lock. quad is much easier to deal with.

 

My Magellan gold has a quad antenna which I thought was great until I got my Explorist 500 with a patch antenna.

The 500 constantly beats the gold in signal strentgh and sat reception.

I would say the newer units have very little differance if any

[+rstickle]

Well it may not be the antenna, but I also do Volksmarching and have used a GPS to both keep me on track and keep from getting lost. I started using a eTrex Legend, but gave up after a 10K through the woods recorded a total of less than 5K!

 

I switched to a 60CS and have lost signal less than a dozen times. I'm getting ready to move up to the 60CSX just because the under tree reception is so important to me.

 

Rick

[+TeamHardK]

Thanks for the tips I think I'll save up for a bit more and get a 60C or Cx

[misteraceman]

I'm new to this whole geo-caching thing and I'm trying to decide between the GPSMAP 60 and the eTrex Legend C. Both are in my price range and both have the features I want (I'd prefer the GPSMAP 60C over the 60, but don't have the cash). I'm planning on using my GPSr to geocache in and around Toronto, and also for mountain biking around Barrie and possibly some camping in Algonquin. I figure on the streets of Toronto the patch won't give me any problems, but how useful is it in the more wooded areas?

 

I think that the whole conversation re: your question has gotten out of hand. I own a GPSMAP 60CS and have also been using a Legend C for a month and find very little diffence in them. I have City Select V6 installed on the 60CS so I can navigate on my "bicycle" around southern Ontario with very little problem, but I just spent time geocaching in Mexico using a Legend C with no problem and no software other than the basemap. The legend is smaller and the bicycle clamp is cheap and the unit will not bounce around as much on your bike as the 60CS does. Both units are good and it is what you can afford.

 

In Toronto go to "Europe Bound" or http://www.europebound.com and check them out and find their locations. You can buy either model at a competitive price as GPSCity or GPSCentral or Radioworld. One question that was not asked or inferred by you was whether you wanted to install street software, and then you can have it all with geocaching and autorouting. Oh yes, they have the new models the Legend Cx and the GPSMAP 60Cx or 60CSx also.

[+Fred Flintstone]

The answer to the question about a lowrance is it almost went into the creek while geocaching in the parks. I had just got my new 60 csx and my work budy just recieved his Lowrance hunter c. While hiking in the woods he kept asking me what the coordinates were that my csx was reading. After about 10 minutes of the annoying questions I asked him why he kept asking me for the coor. He replied that the Lowrance had only locked onto one sat. About another 10 minutes had passed and I had noticed that he wasn't even close to the cache we were looking for. I asked him what his gps was reading and he replied "I don't know. I left it somewhere on a rock back there about 5 min. ago because it would't lock onto anymore sat. and I was getting ready to throw it in the creek." Needless to say, the lowrance was returned and a 60 csx was bought to replace the lowrance that just did't perform under tree coverage. I am sure there are many stories about all manufactures gps units. Happy hunting. Wiiiillllmaaa!!!! WERE'S my gps!!!!

Edited February 19, 2006 by Fred Flintstone

[jcddcjjcd]

Here http://www.sarantel.com/downloads/technica...ch_Antennas.pdf is an explanation that should satisfy everbody. There are significant differences electrically though they don't boil down to a lot in the real world.

Regards,

John.

[+Chance Encounter]

The eTrex series is like a toy whereas the 60x series is a tool.

 

I've "toyed" my way to 946 finds and 344 hides using an eTrex Yellow, an eTrex Legend, and now an eTrex Legend C. Just think what I might accomplish if I ever get a "tool!"