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Category Proposal: Place With Drug Use Problems

ibycus
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ibycus

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Not 100% sure if this one is a good idea or not. Was thinking that a listing of there drug needles have been found would be very useful for cache placers to have. If they've been found there once, they may be again, and we should probably avoid putting caches there.

 

To log a 'find' on an existing waymark, it would have to be a new incidence of needles found at the same location, you'd also have to call authorities, and get the needles properly disposed of.

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ibycus

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I know, that is why I wasn't sure if it was a good idea. I'm hoping people aren't that stupid. But if they find needles at a given location, they mark it, and get them cleaned up, and find that that location has already been 'logged', its still good information to have...

Maybe some pretty strong wording on the page to not go out and specifically search for needles at these locations.

The thing is, I have no idea where the "Drug" prone areas are around here. I've heard of a few needles being found, but they weren't in areas *I* would have suspected them, and wouldn't have thought to be particularly careful there...

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ibycus

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So, advantages:

 

1) Cachers who want to avoid areas where users hang out, can. (also people placing caches could consult the list, and see *why* caches might not be a good idea in a given area before placing the cache there)

 

Disadvantages:

 

1) Cachers with very small brains might decide to go visiting the waymarks, looking for needles that they can 'log'

2) People looking for drugs will know where other drug users hang out (so could make the problem in the listed area worse).

 

2nd point first, I highly doubt that by seeing the coordinates online, anyone will be tempted to take drugs, so really we're resdistributing the problem, not making it worse. Also, we all know how infrequently you run in to other people on the trails, at a cache site. I would guess the same would be true for drug users. Hanging out at a spot where drug users shoot up, probably isn't a very efficient way to run in to other drug users (it might happen, but I would imagine it is unlikely).

 

1st point: Cachers with very small brains don't really need any help endangering their person. They can do it just fine with the current system. Frankly if you're that dumb*... Well I won't finish the thought...

 

*by you, I mean the would be cacher who goes looking for used needles, not any poster to this thread, unless said poster to the thread would be tempted to go looking for used needles..

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balloonatic

+balloonatic

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I don't like it. Drug evidence has the ability to be found literally everywhere and there is nothing to govern it being a common occurance or just a random sighting. All of that is way to open ended and too subjective.

Ditto...

 

It really doesn't sit right with me.

 

I'd rather see waymarks for positive or historical things that have some twinkle of significance.

 

I say no, just "carefully" dispose of the problem and be done with it.

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AtlantaGal

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What no one mentions is WHY would you want to go to a place where drug addicts hang out? They're typically seedy areas and not too safe.

 

So, IMO No.

 

One other thought... addicts would see your nifty GPSr device as something that they could steal and pawn for their next fix too. Who wants to get mugged?

Edited by AtlantaGal
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ibycus

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What no one mentions is WHY would you want to go to a place where drug addicts hang out? They're typically seedy areas and not too safe.

 

So, IMO No.

 

One other thought... addicts would see your nifty GPSr device as something that they could steal and pawn for their next fix too. Who wants to get mugged?

I don't think you'd be particularly *looking* for this one (at least I hope you wouldn't). But if you found it, it would be a way to let people know that that particular area was frequented by drug users (and hence to be extra careful while caching). My point is exactly that these areas probably aren't too safe, and you *wouldn't* want to go there. But I have no idea where *there* is, so I don't know where to stay away from.

 

There seems to be a lot of attention on the "it lets people know where to go to get drugs". Is this really the case? Being rather unfamiliar with the seedy underbelly of Calgary, I really have no idea. Do they buy the drugs in the same place they shoot up? Or do they buy them and then go off and shoot up on their own time?

Also, how long do they generally spend in the area when they do shoot up? an hour? two? I don't know, I really don't. I would imagine they'd be there at most an hour or so out of the week, and given that you'd have no idea when that hour would be, that gives you a 1/168 chance of 'finding' them in the act (so probably not a good place for someone to hang out who was actually *looking* for drugs.

 

Perhaps to restrict it to park areas, where one might hide a geocache would be better? (hadn't even thought about back alleys and what not to be honest, until this second)

I was also under the impression that drug users tend to return to the same locations, so I'm not sure how transient it actually would be (then again, what do I know?).

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ibycus

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Sounds dangerous, my vote is no. I wouldnt want to be around places where needles were found, what if there are more and someone got stuck by one.

 

Thats the whole point. How do you know that there *were* needles in the location, unless someone tells you that they found some there.

Its meant to be a warning to stay away, not an invitation to go back and look for needles (note, part of the logging requirements would be that you get the initial needles cleaned up by the proper authorities). Yes, needles may show up there again, which is exactly why you'd want to know about the location. Its where you *shouldn't* be, not where you *should* be.

 

I have come across needles while hunting a cache. If is really no fun with the the possibility of passing pathogens.

 

Exactly. I wonder if where you found the needles, needles had been found before? If you'd had a database, you might have known that that area was a bad location to be going. I wonder if needles have been found there since?

Anyone hidden a cache nearby since then? Probably without knowing about the location? Is there anything to stop someone hiding a cache right next to where the needles were found (not that I'm proposing that these areas be off limits for cache hiding, after all, as has already been pointed out, drugs have the potential to be used anywhere and everywhere, but personally I'd want to know if I accidentally hid a cache 20m from where someone found some used needles last week)

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ibycus

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Okay, but isn't the object of Waymarking to go out and actually visit these places like we do with caching?

Is it?

 

I'm not entirely sure. That's certainly not how I see the McDonalds listings, maybe those are places to avoid too :blink:, just kididng I love McDonalds. Actually I'm thinking of Waymarking in a somewhat different light than 'places you want to find'. I'm thinking it more of 'good places to have on your GPS when you go somewhere' kind of thing. Some might be places you'd want to visit (touristy) Some might be places you'd want to avoid (needles etc). The people who use the databases, are going to be the ones to add the most to them (for example if I've got the McD's data loaded, and I find one not listed, I'm going to want to add that one to the list, same for bridge data)

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Yoshee

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Wow, a very interesting conversation here. I would personally recommend everyone stay away from places needles would be found. We could definately get some really bad publicity.

"Honest officer, that's not mine! I was just down here Waymarking and found it on the ground."

Not all of us are honest, drug free folks.

 

My vote is NO.

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ibycus

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I would personally recommend everyone stay away from places needles would be found.

You mean like, ummm city parks and secluded bushes. Oh wait thats where lots of people hide geocaches...

My whole point is that these are areas you might want to stay away from. I'm not endorsing people cleaning them up themselves either (don't touch them). The first thing you should do if you find used needles is to report them to the appropriate authorities (somthing someone would hardly be likely to do if it was one's own needles). While I do believe that if someone was careful enough, they could safely remove them, one does wonder about the legal ramifications of handling used needles.

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ibycus

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Not 100% sure if this one is a good idea or not.

:blink: I am 100% Bad Idea!

Could you elaborate? Why? Have you read all of the posts in the thread? I've addressed most concerns already (at least I feel I have). Hopefully we can get beyond the knee-jerk reaction. At the moment, I have very little hope of convincing many people, but I'd at least like them not to be convinced for good reasons...

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ibycus

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I think I'll summarize here for people too lazy to read the whole thread:

 

Objections:

 

1. It tells people where to get drugs: I don't think so. I don' t think the areas are in active use for long enough to make it a profitable venture for someone to go down there are meet up with some drug dealers. I mean how frequently do you run in to another cacher at a cache site? Not really that often. It happens, but if you were looking to meet up with another cacher, there are *far* easier ways of doing it. Also, I'm under the impression that the drugs aren't generally used where they are sold (could be totally off base on this one), so really all you *might* run in to there are other junkies. If it was that easy, police would set a watch on these sites, and raid them periodically. AFAIK, they don't.

2. Needles are dangerous, people shouldn't be going out and looking for them: Well yeah, of course they're dangerous. That's the whole point. These are places you don't want to be, and shouldn't hide a cache, but how do you know that unless you found needles there? Nope. If you just 'quietly dispose of them' as one cacher suggested (no disrepect intended), you're totally obliterating information from existence that might otherwise help other people to avoid that spot. The point here is that by informing people of what you found, and encouraging people to get them responsibly disposed of, we're doing something positive.

3. You should stay away from areas where needles are likely to be found Yeah, and how do you know where needles are likely to be found? The only places I know of locally where needles were found, would not be where I'd expect them to be found.

4. You might get blamed for being a drug user well ummm, I think its fairly trivial to tell that this isn't the case. First of all, these are *used* needles right? If you'd used them, first of all you'd be high as a kite, which presumably you aren't. Second, you'd have some marks on you where you injected yourself. Third, well you probably wouldn't be calling the authorities to come and deal with the situation, would you?

5. You might run in to a drug user who would steal your fancy GPSr: Remember, you aren't actually supposed to be looking for this one, right? You're going to waymark it if and only if you happen to find it anyways, in which case you're going to run in to the drug users with or without the existence of the category (although if they steal your fancy GPSr, it might make it tough to waymark)

 

I think that just about covers all the major objections raised so far.

 

**edit because apparently I can't count, and 6 doesn't come right after 4...**

Edited by ibycus
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ibycus

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I think that some kind of social activism directory area would be interesting and this could fit in there. After a bunch of people mark what they discover you'd start to see some interesting patterns emerge.

That is exactly what I was thinking.

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southdeltan

+southdeltan

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I don't think it's a terrible idea, for the reasons Ibycus has outlined. I also like Jeremy's suggestion.

 

This would be akin to:

 

Category Proposal: Illegal Dump Sites.

 

Lets' mark them so we can help the authorities do something about them...... That's the idea anyways....

 

sd

Edited by southdeltan
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