Following The "guidelines" And Getting Hosed!

[+Cigar Bubba]

Well ok I finaly get "permision" to place my very first cache where I would like to place it. Following the "rules/guidelines" that you should always ask first, boy do I feel like a moron now! I got started trying to get permision over a month ago, first I contacted the committee that manages the area they thought it sounded fine and that I should have no problem getting ok'ed for it but they had to ask the Selectmen to allow it because it was a "new" use for the area and not specificly mentioned as a use. Now the Selectmen tell me I can go ahead and place my cache with what I think is a very very big and very coastly to myself. They want me to submit to their office pior to my use of the area "A certificate of liablity insurance adding the Town and the property ," They dont ask for that when I go to hike in the conservation areas in thier town. And their are at least 5- 10 caches in the consevation areas that are in this Town. Now I really dont think that every one of those caches got insurance waivers for the town before they placed them.

I am begining to see why so very few of us even bother to ask permision to place our caches. I guess now I have learned and will have to remember this the next time I want to place a cache. What do you all think I should do now? Go ahead and place it ? or try and convinse the town that they are asking to much ?

Sorry for any spelling errors

Cigar Bubba

[+sept1c_tank]

Just flash your tattoo and tell them to go fly a frisbee!

 

 

As much as I hate to say it (because I don't believe explicit permission is necessary in many public areas), you did the honorable thing. But the honorable thing can be costly.

 

I would not place the cache, but now, since you've already entered into negotiations, you might as well attempt to make your point; these kinds of liability requirements are unfair and unnecessary.

 

My genereal rule of thumb: If there are not existing policies prohibiting activities like geocaching, don't ask.

 

(Anti-flame ointment applied.)

Edited July 2, 2005 by sept1c_tank

[+Cigar Bubba]

Well let me tell ya' I sure dont feel "honorable" I feel like a shmuck! What really gets me is here i go trying to do the right thing and ask, and their is a cache in this area already that they dont even know about. I know they did not go threw this crap to place their cache. I will try and get them to recind that request when I go to talk to them next week. I have to wait now till after the holiday. I wouldnt feel so bad but I was at that Selectmens meeting and they made no mention at all that they would require me to get insurance for the cache.

[+cachew nut]

What are Selectmen and who put them in charge? Actually I assume it's your local bureaucrats. In most cases their main function is to create red tape. You are better off bypassing the permission when it is not really needed and just have some fun. You see, you didn't need permission until now.

[+CYBret]

Point them to the disclaimer linked on every cache page.

 

Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache.

 

Bret

[Team Armadillo]

I second CyBret. My local park district had some safety concerns. I sent an email discussing the concerns and mentioned a number of times that all cachers agree to a disclaimer before they are given the info to find the cache. That satisifed the Superintendent of Parks here.

[+Runaround]

Kudos for working to get permission.

 

This isn't an issue that can't resolved. Starting with the disclaimer here is good. Is this an organized park district? Usually they have a set of written rules and by-laws for their organization. These are normally available for public view at the local library, city hall, or park district office. In every case I've seen there is a rule that states something like:

 

"Visitors agree to accept all risks and liabilities for any events/activites that occur during the use of the parks. Visitors agree to hold park district harmless for all damages or losses."

 

While that's not the exact wording, you get the picture. Just point out this clause to the Selectman along with the GC.com disclaimer. It should be enough to prove his butt is already covered. If he still resists, ask him if you need insurance to play frisbee or go for a hike.

 

EDIT: typo

Edited July 2, 2005 by Runaround

[+Rick618]

There is likely a city attn that you could talk with as well. Your this far in so whats a little deeper? It's a park, people come and go all the time.

Public servants, how soon they forget.

 

Old 3rd grade confuseus saying, sometimes better to ask for forgiveness than permission

[+briansnat]

Don't say I didn't warn you.

 

One more.

Edited July 2, 2005 by briansnat

[Clan Riffster]

Under our current system of law, an action is "legal". unless it is specifically listed as forbidden. Some natural land managers have squeaked around that by posting lists of approved activities, then banning any activity not on their list. As long as it's public land, paid for and maintained by your tax dollars, this shouldn't be an issue, unless geocaching is specifically prohibited.

 

If there are already caches in place, I'd say, "Go for it!"

[+halffast]

Boy how I know how you fill about doing the right thing and getting permission..I have been trying to get permission since febuary to place a micro at a small monument a couple miles outside of town.Ive been to the city hall,county ,historical society,autitors office ,assessors office,county commisioners,chamber of commerance,title companies,....ect.ect. Nobody wanted to claim this monument.Most people I talked to didnt even know there was a monument..It became an obsession to find who actually owned this little monument.The county finally claimed ownership and gave me permission to place my cache..I have became attached to it to the point I am now seeking permission to do some well needed landscaping around the monument..With the help of a few local geo-cachers..

[+cachew nut]

Asking for permission when none is needed is like asking for permission to breathe. Wait till they tell you "no" on that one.

[+DaveA]

Never ask permission unless there is a posted policy requiring it.

 

If there is a posted policy requiring it, try to find some other area to place a cache.

 

I trust you have learned your lesson.

 

You behaved in an honorable way. You did the right thing. You saw first hand how your government works. Now go do the practical thing. Be thankful that government at all levels is mostly incompetent otherwise we would be really screwed.

Edited July 2, 2005 by DaveA

[+cachew nut]

Following the "rules/guidelines" that you should always ask first, boy do I feel like a moron now!

If this was on public land, then you did not follow the guidelines correctly. You were first supposed to see if there were some existing rules about geocaching, not ask for permission and have rules created when none exist.

[+IV_Warrior]

Well ok I finaly get "permision" to place my very first cache where I would like to place it. Following the "rules/guidelines" that you should always ask first, boy do I feel like a moron now!

Actually, the guidelines say "ADEQUATE PERMISSION" NOT "Express written permission". IF it's private property, yes, you definately need express permission of the landowner. If it's public, taxpayer supported property, then adequate permission is as simple as the area is open to the public, UNLESS they have a specific geocaching policy. Would you go ask permission to play frisbee, hike, jog, take pictures, let the kids play there? NO? Then why ask permission to geocache there?

 

That said, now that you've already asked, and they created the rule, don't place a cache there unless you follow their rules. Or, work to get the rule changed. The liability ins. thing is overkill, but you asked. If you can't get them to change their minds on that, don't place a cache there without it.

[+welch]

What do you all think I should do now? Go ahead and place it ? or try and convinse the town that they are asking to much ?

Sorry for any spelling errors

Cigar Bubba

I think at this point you either need to give up and go caching in other areas, or explain you paying for insurance is never going to happen. Are there any other nearby counties or cities that have a policy that doesn't require insureance? Might also point that geocaching is little different than all the other stuff they allow, like hiking, birding, mushroom hunting, picnicing, bicycle/horseback riding? etc, and Those things don't need insurance. Maybe they'll see it your way, maybe not.

[PyroDave]

The NYS DEC had a anti geocacheing policy much like this (wanting insurance and such) theve chaged that stance you might want to look at there new rules on it and use that as a sugestion guideline for them.