To A Louse

[+spioradsaor]

Just bringning FFb's wee rendition o Rabbies work up again

 

if ye keep up the censorship the peeps will win in the end.

 

 

A Mans A Man for Aw that...an a wummin as weel cum tae mind

[+MT Fellwalker]

Just a comment, from one of those dadgum yanks.

 

There's lots of talk about censorship on-line, but something to ruminate upon... With geocaching.com, you are in someone else's space, their home or perhaps their store if you prefer.

 

It's not censorship if I throw you out of the party at my place because you had too much to drink and won't shut up about that Unite Ireland Now! campaign you're involved in. It's not censorship if I call the police to escort you off-premises for harassing the customers in my shop to donate to your church charity fund.

 

It's not censorship. You can stand out on the public sidewalk and yell all you want on the topic. You can go down to the pub and tell everyone I'm a bastard because I don't support your cause. You can write the local paper and get your opinions heard. You can create your own webpage, blog or mailing list and complain about me and extol your beliefs. You are not being censored.

 

And the funny thing is, I never said I didn't think the cause was just, or the monies were not needed. Maybe I don't, but maybe I do. But what I'm saying for sure is that there's times and places for such things, and times and places that such discussions aren't appropriate. I'm sure you can think of plenty of examples without me making this post longer than it already is.

 

So just remember that this is Jeremy Irish's house before you start crying censorship. His place, his rules. He's said this place is for geocaching, and that's what we're talking about. You want to discuss other Very Important Subjects? Great. Head off somewhere appropriate and have at it. But don't get mad because you have been asked to not do it here.

 

Hopefully the peeps get that.

 

MT Fellwalker

Edited January 7, 2005 by MT Fellwalker

[+Cave Troll and Eeyore]

What you are saying is that we either agree with GC or be silenced

GC.com is not god and we refuse to be censored.

CT of CT&J

Edited January 7, 2005 by Cave Troll & Joan

[MCL]

Ah now thats a good response from MT Fellwalker, and I appreciate the time taken to address the subject.

 

I like his analogy with a house and a party, and I can see some of where he is coming from, and even partly agree with him. However, to stretch his analogy a bit further, in this particular case, we have the host's wife asking a partygoer what they think of the party, and when he answers, he is thrown out and told his views are not wanted, even when those views were sober and reasonable.

 

Yeah, sure the host is entitled to do that but how disrespectful to both his wife and to all the other partygoers is that? What is ever going to happen next time he or his wife wants either one of their guests opinions or help with something? You think the other partygoers are going to chip in and help? Not likely!

 

It's just not the morally right way to run a party, and back in the real world, its not the right way to run a forum, even one on a private website.

 

In case anyone reading this hasn't made the link with the analogy, one of the threads that was closed down by a certain moderator was one set up by a certain other moderator precisely for discussion of one particular aspect of one of the recent hot topics. None of the posts in said thread were wild, harsh, ranting or anything like that, yet still, that thread was closed in a "I know best and am overruling your usual moderators" kind of way. It's all about how it looks from an outsider's point of view that matters just as much as what might have gone on in the background.

 

Someone tell me if I'm wrong please?

Edited January 7, 2005 by MCL

[+Slytherin]

Just a comment, from one of those dadgum yanks.

There's lots of talk about censorship on-line, but something to ruminate upon... With geocaching.com, you are in someone else's space, their home or perhaps their store if you prefer.

<snip>

So just remember that this is Jeremy Irish's house before you start crying censorship. His place, his rules.

If this a party, I paid for my ticket, so I think I'm entitled to an opinion as to whether it's a good party or not, and whether I'll buy a ticket for the next one.

 

And don't forget who pays the bills for Mr. Irish's house.

-

[+mongoose39uk]

I personaly have not been and will not be involved in Yank bashing.

 

All I ask is that we be allowed to play the game and discuss it in Freedom.

 

If a thread needs closing then please let our moderators do it. I think in general they would give their reasons clearly and concisely for doing so. This I feel sure would be more than likely to occur when a personal attack or threat is made.

 

Ok I am going to shut up for a bit now and no no opne has told me to shut up!

Edited January 7, 2005 by mongoose39uk

[+McDeHack]

I have tried not to get involved with this.

 

But the 'Yank' is right that this is a Geocaching site.

The threads were closed because they drifted off course.

 

I have also paid my money towards the upkeep of a geocaching site, and that is all I expect.

 

I still like Americans because they are good tippers. 'Somtimes'

[Nette]

You have to remember that we rely on some who has a virtual "monopoly on Geocaching (Navicache has how many UK caches?), and as such we the customer (my other half is the premium member) should be given a lot more respect, than what was given. The actions that caused most of the problems, was taken by one person (who himself is a customer who just helps out), if this person was acting on behalf of TPTB, but without their knowledge, then it would only make good "Customer Service" to issue an apology to the UK community for the way topics were locked off, without a proper explanation. If as it appears, that this individual has a agenda or dislike of the UK community, then his access to censor, of what happens on the UK forums should be restricted, since we have 2 reviewers/moderators, who are well thought off I'm sure by TPTB, who keep a overview of what goes on in these forums. Look at Microsoft, who provided a large majority of Pc's with their software, who are now facing legal problems, and large No's migrating to other software, because, they had a dominance, and failed to pay attention to the customer. It would be horrible to see that happen to this site, because of a lack of respect for the customer. Remember if you keep telling people to go else where, one day tey might just follow that advice, MS, got their dominance, due to the best provider(Apple) not be prepared to open up to their customers.

 

Just because I new to posting,don't think that I'm not aware what has happened in the past. I have followed the ups and downs in Geocaching, thu my husband!

 

Nette.

[+John Stead]

Well said Nette!

Edited January 7, 2005 by John Stead

[Jumbo Village]

I've been enjoying these threads, mainly because of the way people are taking things so personally.

 

Are you really that concerned that Geocaching.com are stopping you from creating a charity cache? They've said no, so that's that! A few have snuck by in the past, but that's the exception, not the rule.

 

Is it that you feel cheated because they close your thread down? They can do that. It's their forum! It doesn't matter how much money you have or haven't paid! They've even been decent enough explain themselves before closing the threads down, which they didn't need to do. It certainly doesn't affect your ability to Geocache does it?

 

Now, let's get on with the much more serious business of preparing for the weekends drinking!

[MCL]

Jumbo, you haven't grasped our "party" analogy above have you?

 

We were asked by one of the hosts to discuss a subject and when we did, another host threw us out of the party!

 

To translate, just in case anyone still can't figure it out; Our Uk moderator opened a thread where we could discuss one of the many aspects of the past few days, and so we did. Without spite or vitriol, we honestly started to put our thoughts and views down in print.

 

Then it was closed off rather quickly by one of TPTB. Now I fail to see what on earth we did wrong! If the thread needed closing, then the moderator who opened it for us should have been asked privately to do it. That would have been a decent way to go about it.

 

It is this callousness that so incenses me and I'm sure a lot of the rest of us here in the UK. We have enough of the Nanny state from Tony and his Cronies, we don't need it from anywhere else. We *can* and *were* discussing and debating quite reasonably, and if you don't believe me, just read the thread yourself and you will see what I mean.

 

They've even been decent enough explain themselves before closing the threads down

 

Have they? No-one has yet explained why that thread had to be closed. mtn-man says on another thread that it was closed by someone who has oversight of all fora, as though this is some sort of explanation for the action. In fact it isn't. It doesn't explain anything at all. Doesn't say why, just who.

 

The explanation given is nearly always that the discussion must stay on topic. Well it DID, and they still closed it down, so that one won't wash either. The only inescapable conclusion I can think of is that in fact they didn't like the topic, so they closed it down, despite it being opened by one of their moderators.

 

So what we have here is an open squabble between two moderators. One opens a discussion, and another one closes it. That looks good eh?

 

To carry MT Fellwalker's analogy even further, lets say you do decide to throw someone out of your party for answering your wife's questions.... at least it is only him who gets thrown out. On here, closing a thread doesn't stop the perpetrator from saying his piece, it stops everyone else from saying theirs! This is like saying everyone elsze has to leave the party and the rude guy is allowed to stay on his own! The way to deal with a bad poster is to lock him out of the forum and leave the thread open. That way you preserve free speech and punish the miscreant. Everybody wins! Is that so difficult a concept to grasp?

 

This is why I find the whole set of actions so absolutely unbelievable.

[Lactodorum]

As I said in another (now closed) topic I'm getting tired of the continuing bickering that has broken out in the UK forum. What has happened has happened.

 

Can we PLEASE move on.

 

I have rarely closed threads in the past but I'm closing this one as well.

 

PLEASE let it drop.