Is There A Standard For Trading Tracks?

[myjeeprocks]

Hey everyone!

 

Not new to GPS, but new to GPS software. I finally have a PC so I can interface my GPS with it. (MAC USER HERE!)

 

My dilemma is trading tracks (or routes) with friends. I have the Garmin Mapsource CDs and it seems like if you don't all have the same version of the stupid software, it won't read the map! Is there a better way to do this?

 

Thanks in advance ...

Sarah

[+BlueDeuce]

Is there a better way to do this?

Give'em your GPS? (Ha ha)

 

Actually I'm serious, if you meet with them, maybe they could download straight from your GPS? Otherwise you both need compatable software.

 

Best I can do, not a programer.

[myjeeprocks]

Thanks for your reply.

 

I actually want to post local trails and waypoints on my website and have people send in theirs too. True, we can maybe switch when we see each other, but it's not as fun that way.

 

[+BlueDeuce]

Ah I see. You should be able to share files using GSAK, but someone else here will have a better answer.

[+larsl]

I'd suggest that you use the GPX format (GPS eXchange). It's an open format that's supported by lots of programs and is something of a standard for GPS data, and you can use GPSBabel to convert to/from many other formats.

[gm100guy]

Try this program

 

I use this program and there is a few web sites around that use this as exchange program also.

 

It will interface with most makes of gps's.

 

I save my tracks in the ozi format but you can just use the text option.

 

Here is a sample of 2 tracks from 2 gps's using g7towin on a top map.

 

Edited October 10, 2004 by gm100guy

[myjeeprocks]

Thanks guys, I'll give those options a try, and let you know how it works out.

 

@ gm100guy: so you're a vnc junkie too!

[+greengolftee87]

wait? are you saying that if i download a track from my gps. save it and then someone else tries to open it on their computer it may not work unless the person you are giving it to has the exact same software. if this is so. does easy gps have a track recieve function. and what to you mean

 

"maybe they could download straight from your GPS?"

[myjeeprocks]

wait? are you saying that if i download a track from my gps. save it and then someone else tries to open it on their computer it may not work unless the person you are giving it to has the exact same software. if this is so. does easy gps have a track recieve function. and what to you mean

 

"maybe they could download straight from your GPS?"

yup, so far that's what i've found.

 

downloading straight from my GPS is cool if i want to go to their house, but i want to trade tracks online, so it's not really practical.

 

so far i find the Garmin Mapsource very limiting, and am considering dumping it at first sight of something more useful.

[+BlueDeuce]

"maybe they could download straight from your GPS?"

Most software can download track data from any GPS, but the file format for one program may not work on another.

 

It's kind of like recording music on a cassette and on a CD. Same song but you can't exchange them.

[myjeeprocks]

Try this program

 

I use this program and there is a few web sites around that use this as exchange program also.

 

It will interface with most makes of gps's.

 

I save my tracks in the ozi format but you can just use the text option.

 

Here is a sample of 2 tracks from 2 gps's using g7towin on a top map.

 

Ok I found a way to do it!

 

Using G7toWin found here:

http://www.gpsinformation.org/ronh/

(thank you for that link!)

 

You can download your tracks from your GPS, select which ones you'd like to export, and then using EasyGPS found here:

http://www.topografix.com/

 

You can read and transfer the GPX file you just created.

 

Yes, this means that the person on the receiving end must have EasyGPS, or something that can read GPX which MAPSOURCE WILL NOT DO. However, EasyGPS is a free application with a very small download.

 

If anyone would like to give this a try, I can post my GPX file.

 

Thanks for all of your help, if anyone finds an easier way that would be great!

Thanks,

Sarah

[+greengolftee87]

please post it. i am also interested in finding a way to do it

[myjeeprocks]

please post it. i am also interested in finding a way to do it

Right-click and download this:

http://www.myjeeprocks.com/maps/tracks/cal...gar-jeepmag.gpx

 

I read somewhere else about how much EasyGPS sucks. Actually, I just realized that you can upload/download from G7toWin.

 

I'm on yahoo as a99j33p if you want to chat.

Edited October 11, 2004 by myjeeprocks

[+Ex nihil]

Interesting question, I first got into this website a long time ago looking for routes for trekking, I was not back then in the market for geocaching, which relies on individual waypoints. I just thought that people with good trekking routes would want to share them and that there would be some track trading somewhere on the net. I am still looking, it doesn't seem to have happened and I think it is because there is no standardisation for track formats and that this is an unfilled market.

I think there is some confusion between Waypoints, Routes and Tracks, they are different things and this is not helped by the inconsistent use of nomenclature across GPSs.

1 Waypoints are just locations, if you want to trade Waypoints use GPX files and handle them with GSAK, you can use EasyGPS but there are limitations and once you have used GSAK you won't want to go back to EasyGPS, I uninstalled mine.

2 Routes are generally just Waypoints set up in some sort order, a GPX format would carry the waypoint data but I don't see how it would put them in order. OziExplorer uses RTE files and can be used to trade routes but I don't think that routes is what we need for trekking they are only good for flying a plane or navigating a boat because you can go in straight lines between Waypoints.

3 If you are trekking though Routes is not want you want, you want tracks. A track typically has thausands of points defined in them. OziExplorer uses PLT files for this and talks to any GPS. I would suggest OzExplorer PLT files would make a good standard. If you are into tracks you must be doing this in association with some mapping software and you can't go past OziExplorer for starters.

I have not found an easy way to convert Tracks from one format to another except by uploading to a GPS and downloading them into another application. There is a market out there for something to trade and convert tracks and I don't think there is currently the solution.

Edited October 11, 2004 by Ex nihil

[+larsl]

I have not found an easy way to convert Tracks from one format to another except by uploading to a GPS and downloading them into another application.  There is a market out there for something to trade and convert tracks and I don't think there is currently the solution.

Have you tried GPSBabel? It was created precisely to solve the problem of all mapping programs using their own format. I don't know if it handles the formats you use, but you could give it a try.

 

Routes are generally just Waypoints set up in some sort order, a GPX format would carry the waypoint data but I don't see how it would put them in order.

By putting them inside an <rte> element, in the correct order. GPX can store routes and tracks as well as waypoints (see this page).

 

And I think that GPX would the best interchange format, because

• it's easy to parse (it's XML, all you need is an XML library)
  
• it can contain tracks, routes, and waypoints in the same file
  
• it has lots of data fields for every waypoint, route, or track, and since it's XML you can add your own fields in a new namespace without breaking anything (this is what Groundspeak do with their GPX files)
  
• it's created to be an interchange format, and not just a native format for some particular software
  

Edited October 11, 2004 by larsl

[gm100guy]

Maybe I have missed some but I have never seen a a track file in a gpx file. They only seem to have routes and waypoints.

 

If it can do tracks post a site that explains it for us.

 

If you want to learn about using g7towin for working with tracks read the article on the site below.

 

g7towin site

 

If you want to see your track online after using g7towin and saved in the ozi.plt file you can use the web site below.

 

track online

 

[robertlipe]

Maybe I have missed some but I have never seen a a track file in a gpx file. They only seem to have routes and waypoints.

 

If it can do tracks post a site that explains it for us.

 

The GPX format does tracks. http://www.topografix.com/gpx.asp

 

GPSBabel does waypoints, routes, and tracks. It supports about 50-ish formats. Not all combinations of features are supported for every possible combination, but it tries pretty hard to get the core information converted. It runs on all interesting operating systems.

 

GPSBabel, unlike Mapsource itself, cat "backdate" mapsource 3,4, and 5 file versions. (GDB is a different problem.) So if you have v5 and want to give your tracks to someone using v3, you can use GPSBabels advanced features (not available from the pointy clicky interface) to read the v5 format and write the v3 format.

[+larsl]

Maybe I have missed some but I have never seen a a track file in a gpx file. They only seem to have routes and waypoints.

As an example, the GPX link that myjeeprocks posted contains tracks.

[myjeeprocks]

As an example, the GPX link that myjeeprocks posted contains tracks.

 

Oh good, so you guys could read it ok! Yes I did notice that some apps won't import tracks. I couldn't get Babel to run, but then again I'm still kinda new to how PCs work.

 

I think Garmin needs to step up to the challenge of making their own software compatible with itself! LOL

[+larsl]

As an example, the GPX link that myjeeprocks posted contains tracks.

Oh good, so you guys could read it ok!

I actually just looked at the source, but now I've tried to load it in QGIS and it works. One odd thing though: the second track (named "JEEP MAGAZINE") ends with a separate trackpoint at the coordinates 0.00, 0.00. I don't know if this is intended, if it's a human mistake, or if it's a bug in the software you used to write it.

[gpsvisualizer]

Maybe I have missed some but I have never seen a a track file in a gpx file. They only seem to have routes and waypoints.

Perhaps the BEST feature about GPX files (other than their interchangeability) is their ability to contain multiple tracks, routes, and points all in a single file. In theory, you could store all the GPS data you ever collected in a single GPX file.

 

Speaking of which, GPS Visualizer's "convert" program can now generate GPX -- from any one of the file formats supported by GPS Visualizer's mapping functions.

 

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/convert

[myjeeprocks]

I actually just looked at the source, but now I've tried to load it in QGIS and it works. One odd thing though: the second track (named "JEEP MAGAZINE") ends with a separate trackpoint at the coordinates 0.00, 0.00. I don't know if this is intended, if it's a human mistake, or if it's a bug in the software you used to write it.

Hmm, I will have to look at that again. It loads into your GPS ok though? I know the start and end are different, I will have to double check the file and see if it shows up in G7toWin (the app I used)

 

Thanks for checking it out!

[+CompuCash]

That is a really neat idea -o-

 

I have DeLorme Topo and it will download from both my Magellan and Garmin - I actually prefer the way the Legend does tracks in the GPS - really easy to save and clear as you track a trail. (don't forget to clear the data before you start the track or you gat a direct line from when you turned it off last that you have to edit out)

 

But DTopo has several export formats, several layers, and the tracks are easy to edit once you figure out how. The interface takes a bit of learning as it is not "Std. Windows" and not very intuitive. But it is a vey powerful program.

 

I use both GSAK and DTopo with both the Sportrak and the Legend back and forth all the time.

 

GSAK has about a dozen export formats that you should be able to use also.

Edited October 13, 2004 by CompuCash

[+greengolftee87]

once you open the file in g7towin how do you get it on your gps. the only programs i have found to transfer to a 60cs is easy gps and mapsource and g7towin doesnt save as a .mps file

[myjeeprocks]

once you open the file in g7towin how do you get it on your gps. the only programs i have found to transfer to a 60cs is easy gps and mapsource and g7towin doesnt save as a .mps file

you would have to upload the tracks/waypoints in G7towin to your GPS, and then launch the program of your choice (in your case it would be mapsource) and then download them from your GPS.

 

IIRC, easy gps will read the file too, if no you can open it in G7towin and save it as whatever you like.

 

hope that helps

sarah

[myjeeprocks]

I have DeLorme Topo and it will download from both my Magellan and Garmin

from their website that app looks like it rocks, how do you like the quality of maps/topo overall? do you have to have the streets program to run the topo? what formats does it work with, what will it export?

 

thanks!

[+greengolftee87]

once you open the file in g7towin how do you get it on your gps.  the only programs i have found to transfer to a 60cs is easy gps and mapsource and g7towin doesnt save as a .mps file

you would have to upload the tracks/waypoints in G7towin to your GPS, and then launch the program of your choice (in your case it would be mapsource) and then download them from your GPS.

 

IIRC, easy gps will read the file too, if no you can open it in G7towin and save it as whatever you like.

 

hope that helps

sarah

i cant figure out how to make g7towin send to usb or how to open a track in easygps, it just comes up as a blank screen

Edited October 14, 2004 by greengolftee87

[+Sputnik 57]

It looks like you've got this wired, but NG Topo! has something similar (I think) using MapXchange

[+CompuCash]

I have DeLorme Topo and it will download from both my Magellan and Garmin

from their website that app looks like it rocks, how do you like the quality of maps/topo overall? do you have to have the streets program to run the topo? what formats does it work with, what will it export?

 

thanks!

 

the streets are thick lines not just a very thin line - different colors and all for highways.

Highways are shown as divided roads. Topo is great - 3d is a little slow - on my 2.4G Sony Vaio. No you don't need streets it has them already.

 

Not at home but it donwloads tracks from both my garmin and the magellan. Exports in same and many others.

 

I export the gpx files from GSAK and import them and I have a little flag for every cahce that I place and also for the ones I find.

 

Tracks from the garmin connect them all together. Really nice progrm - not cheap - but not very much that is good is cheap.

 

==============

 

what are jeep rocks? are they expensive? do you need to have many?

 

Edited October 14, 2004 by CompuCash

[myjeeprocks]

@ greengolf, oh, i'm not sure about USB, I have the Garmin serial cable. when you open the file in G7towin it will look blank and you have to use the menubar to display tracks.

 

@compucash, cool i'm going to check out topowest. hahah, jeep rocks are best when free, although some of them have access fees nowadays. the more the better! actually, in case you weren't kidding, "rocks" is actually being used as a verb there. and my website is www.MyJeepRocks.com

 

@sputnik that's an interesting site, i'm going to explore it a little more! thanks!

[+greengolftee87]

i really want this to work but i just cant get it. i can get the track to work perfect in g7towin but that program does not support usb. if i open the track in easy gps i get nothing, not even in the menu bar. I also have gsak and it is the same thing as with easy gps

Is there a way do show the track on easy gps or mapsource or gsak

Edited October 14, 2004 by greengolftee87

[psoper]

Another great shareware program that talks to LOTS of different GPS units, and gives you a whole bunch of analysis and mapping tools is GPS Trackmaker,

 

gpstm.com

[myjeeprocks]

i really want this to work but i just cant get it. i can get the track to work perfect in g7towin but that program does not support usb. if i open the track in easy gps i get nothing, not even in the menu bar. I also have gsak and it is the same thing as with easy gps

Is there a way do show the track on easy gps or mapsource or gsak

Ok, now that I'm sitting in front of this:

 

In EasyGPS

 

1. Select OPEN and choose the GPX file.

2. Providing you have 3 horozontal panes showing, in the bottom pane double click the name of the track. The waypoint/tracks will show in the middle pane.

 

At least that's how it works here, but I didn't try transferring them to the GPS. I was using the Calico.gpx file. Are all three panes blank when you load it? Are you using the latest download of EasyGPS?

[myjeeprocks]

greengolf:

 

i was looking over the g7towin website and it says "Support for the Garmin GPSMAP 60C via Serial and USB port."

 

i would assume the 60cs would be the same? have you gone to the configuration under the file menu and checked the USB box!? you also have to go to tracks > list or waypoints > list to see the opened data/

 

anyway here's another file you can try: i was able to import this into mapsource actually. right click and save: http://www.myjeeprocks.com/maps/tracks/calico.trk

 

let me know if it works!

Edited October 15, 2004 by myjeeprocks

[gm100guy]

2. Providing you have 3 horozontal panes showing, in the bottom pane double click the name of the track. The waypoint/tracks will show in the middle pane.

 

When you download a track from the gps into g7towin and save it as a gpx file. Then when you open this with easygps you are not getting a true track file in the middle pane. It is route made up of all the points taken from the track.

 

I tried a ozi file I have that saves with over 4000 points when I open it in easygps.

I can't send it to my gps as it only holds 750 waypoints that are used to make a route in easygps. Which you are seeing in the middle pane.

 

But when I save it as a ozi.plt track file in g7towin and then upload it to my gps it shows as a true track on the gps screen. But even to use the ozi format I have to break the over 4000 points down as my gps can only use 3000 points max in a track file.

 

I just tried and posted both formats to gps visualizer to see what it would draw as and they look the same. So you could use both programs but I will stick with using ozi format myself.

 

Edited October 15, 2004 by gm100guy

[+greengolftee87]

Thank you all so much for your help. this is my new favorite program. id has doen everything i needed it to do, including screen shots. the file worked perfectly and i was able to send it to and retrieve it from my gps

 

Thanks again

[+CompuCash]

Another great shareware program that talks to LOTS of different GPS units, and gives you a whole bunch of analysis and mapping tools is GPS Trackmaker,

 

gpstm.com

 

great program that I have not yet fully learned how to use to its full power.

[+CompuCash]

@compucash, cool i'm going to check out topowest. hahah, jeep rocks are best when free, although some of them have access fees nowadays. the more the better! actually, in case you weren't kidding, "rocks" is actually being used as a verb there. and my website is www.MyJeepRocks.com

 

ya - I was kidding but I was surprised to see a web site by that name =

[+CompuCash]

something that took me a while to get a handle on -

 

you have to save the track in the garmin (at least the legend)

 

and then when you dowload it to your program you have to specify the exact file name OCT {space} 10-04 [ I might not have the format exact - don't have wife's gps in front of me but you get the idea ] capitol letters space and all -

 

in at least 2 of my programs it looks like the file got there but nothing came if you don't have the file name right.

 

[+Ex nihil]

Well, I've read all of the above and blown away hours and hours stuffing around with GPX and PLT files and I have come to the conclusion that GPX does not do TRACKS all it does is ROUTES. ROUTES are just a series of waypoints linked together with straight lines, a TRACK draws a detailed line as in a map and contain thousands of points, which cannot, as far as I am aware be isolated and used as waypoints in any straighforward way, (that is you could use OziExplorer to extract a TRACK point and convert it into a waypoint and then use it in a ROUTE but you can't just set a bearing to the next track point and you can't do it within your GPS). I suspect that a lot of confusion and head scratching in this thread is because:

1. Although everyone has seen and used a ROUTE not all have seen a TRACK because not all GPSs handle TRACKS.

2. Maybe what Garmin and Magellan call a TRACK are two different things but I haven't got a Garmin so can't see I am just getting htis picture from what the Garmin owners are saying.

 

OziExplorer PLT files do TRACKS, Oziexplorer RTE files do ROUTES.

Edited October 25, 2004 by Ex nihil

[robertlipe]

Well, I've read all of the above and blown away hours and hours stuffing around with GPX and PLT files and I have come to the conclusion that GPX does not do TRACKS all it does is ROUTES.

While your premise is good and your definitions are accurate, your conclusion is unfortunately not.

 

GPX is a file format supported by many, many programs. GPX, the format, definitely supports tracks.

 

Now whether any given program that supports GPX supports tracks is a different issue - but GPX supports tracks. If you have a question/problem with a specific program, perhaps we can help.

 

While the details (number of points, namespaces allowed for each point, etc.) differ between Magellan and Garmin - and even from program to program or model to model within brand - the core parlance is the same with both and the same as you described.

[peter]

you have to save the track in the garmin (at least the legend)

 

and then when you dowload it to your program you have to specify the exact file name

I wouldn't recommend this method. Saving the track directly on the Garmin Gps results in loss of the time- and date-stamp information and also compresses the tracklog by dropping less significant points. To retain the full detail and also the time information (useful for determining speeds or for synching with time-stamped photos, etc.) you want to download the Active Tracklog directly without first saving it in the GPS.

 

On my eMap this is given the name "ACTIVE LOG" and that's what I have to call it if I want to upload it back into the GPS. Any other name results in the tracklog data being written into one of the 10 Saved Track locations and truncation if the number of trackpoints is too large.

[+larsl]

(obsolete answer - see robertlipe's post instead)

Edited October 25, 2004 by larsl

[myjeeprocks]

Hmmm. So we're still good on the GPX format then? I also noticed that .trk's (track files) can directly be imported into Mapsource. (without needing another application) Searching now to see if other applications will do the same thing.

 

Interesting peter, about saving the tracklog in the GPS first. Good tip.

[dave and jaime]

ozi is extremely adaptable in this regard---it outputs waypoint, tracks etc to txt files. this allows you to import into excel for editing, industry used datum transformation programs, autocad, mscad or for those so inclined into a total station for setout.

 

with this format you could simply email an excel spread sheet to someone and they could adapt it to thiei format with minimal trouble if they have the correct file headers for their software, if not most programs provide this info in their help file.

 

this is a much better system than trying to convert between programs that may have slightly defination to the various geoids and may not even be able to accept data from some abstract datums....

[+dino_hunters]

GPX files do indeed handle tracks just fine. I think your problem is that your using EASYgps. Easygps only works with waypoints and routes. If you want to do tracks, use Expertgps. It handles waypoints, routes and tracks. It does them better than any other program I;ve tried. well worth the $60, considering you get topo maps and airphotos for the whole usa too.

[gm100guy]

Easygps only works with waypoints and routes.

 

So I can save $60 and use the free g7towin and trade my tracks and routes. And see the tracks in a gpx file. And I was right about easgps only doing routes with waypoints.

 

topo maps and airphotos for the whole usa too.

 

But I live outside the USA and that feature does nothing for me here. So I still say that using the ozi plt format is still one of the best ways to exchange tracks. As that format is read by most stand alone map programs.