Benchmark Not Listed

[+St.Brendan]

I know where there is a benchmark type disc on a rock in a very hard to get to place near Pinecrest CA. I don't know if it says "Benchmark" on it would that even count? Near as I can figure it might have been part of a study for another dam above pinecrest lake.

[+St.Brendan]

I should add that the marker shows up on the "Topo Zone" maps as a little x or t

[+1setter]

If you know the coordinates, you can search for those at the benchmarking page. If you get a hit close by, check the description to see if it matches the mark and log it.

[+St.Brendan]

If you know the coordinates, you can search for those at the benchmarking page. If you get a hit close by, check the description to see if it matches the mark and log it.

I already know it doesn't. The closest geocaching benchmark listed is over a mile away at the top of a ridge, the one I'm talking about is at the bottom of a canyon.

[+Clyde1140]

If its not listed you are pretty much out of luck. There are hundreds of NC DOT placed marks around here I could log but they are not in the database either, and they continue placing those!

[Pschtyckque]

Brendan, I live down in Sonora.

 

Where in Pinecrest is this?

[+St.Brendan]

Pschtyckque,

 

this marker is about 3/4 of a mile past Cleo's bath. It will be covered with snow until about mid March and you can't get across the river until about July.

[+gbod]

This is a common question asked here in the Benchmark forum. What you found probably is a benchmark from some agency. Unfortunately, the only ones we have a database for are from the NGS. So, although you did possibly find a benchmark, it doesn't "count" here. Quote from the Benchmark home page:

 

I found a benchmark, but it isn't in your database. Why?

The NGS is not the only organization that creates and uses benchmarks and other types of control markers. For example, the US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) places survey markers at their dams, dikes, levees, flood control systems and other structures.The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and other federal agencies, along with your county surveyor and private surveyors and engineers place markers that often appear very similar to geodetic markers, to reference land survey corners as part of the public land survey system. Your local highway department also may have set markers along highways, at major bridges and overpasses. Many markers have also been set in recent years by utility companies, telecom companies, and others engaged in laying pipe or cable over long distances, to mark their underground lines. In most cases, the information stamped on the disk will tell you, or at least give you a clue, about its purpose. Remember, all these markers are highly important, both to businesses and to individual citizens such as your neighbors, so please treat them with respect, while enjoying the thrill of the hunt. We'll try to find other databases and add them to the site as well. If you have access to one of these databases and would like to submit it to Groundspeak, contact us.

 

If you find a marker that isn't in the database, please do not email the site with the information. Unfortunately at the moment there is nothing to do with the information you send us. Hopefully, we'll have a way to report new benchmark finds in the future. In the meantime, feel free to challenge your fellow hunters to help you identify any markers you find that have only cryptic initials on them by posting a photo and description on the message board.

[+oldfriends]

I have also found a an altitude benchmark. I contacted the NGS person responsible for my area. He was kind enough to research it for me. His reply "this mark is in a DISCONTINUED mark file It is no longer used."

I was surprised since the mark was clean and in great shape and had a 1949 date on it.

[+St.Brendan]

I'm thinking this would make a good locationless cache

[+St.Brendan]

I'm thinking this would make a good locationless cache

[+jeff35080]

I'm thinking this would make a good locationless cache

 

That may be true but there is a current moratorium on locationless caches.

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

oldfriends Posted on Jan 9 2004, 11:46 AM

  I have also found a an altitude benchmark. I contacted the NGS person responsible for my area. He was kind enough to research it for me. His reply "this mark is in a DISCONTINUED mark file It is no longer used."  I was surprised since the mark was clean and in great shape and had a 1949 date on it. 

 

It is quite possible that even though the NGS considers this mark discontinued and no longer used, local surveyors still use it. It commonly happens and would explain the good condition.

Edited January 11, 2004 by Kewaneh & Shark

[+St.Brendan]

I'm thinking this would make a good locationless cache

 

That may be true but there is a current moratorium on locationless caches.

Figures, There is always a moratorium on any cache Ideas I have. I think there should be a moratorium on boxes full of junk.

[KenRobbins]

If you find a benchmark but it is not on the Geocaching list go to:

 

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/datasheet.prl

 

You can enter in Lat / Long and search radius. Some benchmarks are

marked archived or discontinued because they may have been found

to have incorrect data associated. (Set incorrectly to begin with, etc.)

[+Colorado Papa]

OK, I have one that is not listed with geocaching.com . I got my datasheets from NGS and went out and found PID AB0711 (X657) . Attempted to log it but it is not in this database. Dang, and it was my hundredth find!

Why is it not listed???

[+GeckoGeek]

OK, I have one that is not listed with geocaching.com . I got my datasheets from NGS and went out and found PID AB0711 (X657) . Attempted to log it but it is not in this database. Dang, and it was my hundredth find!

Why is it not listed???

The NGS has that mark reported as destroyed in 1987. Geocaching did not import any marks listed as "destroyed".

 

Oddly enough, this is a "disk" (which has strict reporting requirements), and it was reported as destroyed by US Power Squadron, yet it shows recovery in 2003 by an engineering firm. Unless this was a reset, I wonder what's going on.

[+Colorado Papa]

 

it was reported as destroyed by US Power Squadron, yet it shows recovery in 2003 by an engineering firm.  Unless this was a reset, I wonder what's going on.

 

Now where did you find this info? I will admit I got my data for the PID-NAME-COORDINATES from the bottom of the retangular search. I found two other PIDs along the same line within four miles,AB0712 and AB0715. This was not a RESET. The tracks, culvert and mark all appear to have been around for a long time with little maintenance.

 

At one time, this was the Texas and New Orleans RR. The tracks look to be abandoned although there were indications a train had passed by in the past couple weeks. If I get bored playing the part of a "Winter Texan", maybe I'll follow the line farther west and see how many more marks I can find.

[ArtMan]

Oddly enough, this is a "disk" (which has strict reporting requirements), and it was reported as destroyed by US Power Squadron, yet it shows recovery in 2003 by an engineering firm.  Unless this was a reset, I wonder what's going on.

It is not uncommon that stations (benchmarks) previously reported as lost (missing, destroyed, unfound, etc.) are later reported as found.

 

Amateurs (such as the U.S. Power Squadron and, ahem, us) may fail to find a station marker because of ground cover, misinterpretation of the description, inaccurate or confusing description, or other reason.

 

Sometimes - albeit more rarely - it even works the other way around, when a professional fails to find a mark that is subsequently turned up by a rank amateur.

 

IMHO, one of the most important services we can provide is to correct erroneous 'not found' reports in the official NGS datasheets. But be sure that the newly re-found mark really is the one previously reported as unfound. Often inexperienced benchmarkers confuse the station mark with a reset, reference mark or other point.

 

-ArtMan-

[+GeckoGeek]

 

it was reported as destroyed by US Power Squadron, yet it shows recovery in 2003 by an engineering firm.  Unless this was a reset, I wonder what's going on.

 

Now where did you find this info?

Same place as you, except I looked it up by PID. Be sure the check off "Include Destroyed Marks" or you won't be able to pull up the datasheet.

[+GeckoGeek]

It is not uncommon that stations (benchmarks) previously reported as lost (missing, destroyed, unfound, etc.) are later reported as found.

If we were talking about "landmark" type stations, or if you didn't include "destroyed" in your list, I would fully agree.

 

But under the current rules, the only way this station would have been declaired destoryed is if the disk had actually been found and it condition been determined to be destroyed. Saying it was U.S. Power Squadron makes for a tempting target, but they still needed to come up with the evidence to submit.

 

I suspect that either:

• The guidelines were different back then making it too easy to "destroy" a "not found".
  
• Due to a clerical error, the wrong mark was destroyed
  
• Someone shoved the disk back into place - accuracy is suspect.
  

[+Colorado Papa]

It is not uncommon that stations (benchmarks) previously reported as lost (missing, destroyed, unfound, etc.) are later reported as found.

If we were talking about "landmark" type stations, or if you didn't include "destroyed" in your list, I would fully agree.

 

 

Too bad this web site does not have the capablity for the uploading of pictures to confirm the find of a DESTROYED mark.

 

This GES member of USPS made several entries of NOT FOUND of BMs in this area back in 1987 that I have recovered. He may have meant to list this one also as NOT FOUND but accidentally hit the DESTROYED button. But it's inexcusable about him listing these as even NOT FOUND. They were not that hard to find. Wonder if he even tried?

 

What is this "credit" that members receive from USPS?

[+GeckoGeek]

He may have meant to list this one also as NOT FOUND but accidentally hit the DESTROYED button.

There currently is no "Destroyed" button on the NGS website. One has to send a photo via email to Deb at NGS in order to log that into the NGS log. That's why I'm puzzled. Under the current setup, he couldn't have done it by himself. Someone at NGS would have had to agree with him. Under current guidelines, the only way that could happen is if he sent in a photo showing the disk, but showing it in a destroyed condition. (positional integrity lost)

Edited February 17, 2004 by GeckoGeek

[+Colorado Papa]

There currently is no "Destroyed" button on the NGS website.  One has to send a photo via email to Deb at NGS in order to log that into the NGS log.  That's why I'm puzzled.  Under the current setup, he couldn't have done it by himself.  Someone at NGS would have had to agree with him.

Maybe Dave D can give us an explanation???

 

Dave?

 

(BTW, we are refering to AB0711.)