Is There Anything I Can Do?

[+liz and Brian]

I have two travel bugs that have been picked up and never placed. The person who took my lucky bug who's geocaching name is BrianMichael, well, he responded when I emailed him and told me he had been in an accident and would place it soon... that was 1 year and several months ago and he has not responded to my 2 emails I sent after that one... Oh, and he has geocached one cache since then... http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?ID=30131

 

The other travel bug is the one that really urkes me... My toot the travel pig TB was taken by Shin-Ra and they took it and never dropped it and have not responded to ANY emails about it... that was 7 months ago... I was contacted yesterday by TresOkies++ and he has a TB called cultured pearls that was also taken by these people and never dropped and they are not responding to his emails either... http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?ID=28092

 

My question is, can anything at all be done about this? I know that there is REALLY no way to do anything, but I was just curious as to what I should or could do to try and recover my TB's... Can the GPS cops to get them! If anyone knows an answer for this, PLEASE let me know! Liz and Brian

Edited December 20, 2003 by liz and Brian

[+sturgeongeneral]

I am a travelbug fanatic. I beleive a travelbug is personal property and I agree with you. Personally, I would support a help area of Groundspeak where attocities of this nature could be supported. I feel maybe an inquiry from Groundspeak and termination of benefits would be in order.

[+bons]

I think you're both taking this whole thing way too seriously.

 

If travelbugs are making you then perhaps they're not the right thing for you right now.

 

If they make you then I would feel different.

 

But when I constantly see people then I start to think , Why are they doing this? Did they think that complete strangers would never make mistakes ? Did they think the rest of the world was perfect ? Did they think there were no evil or in the world?

 

Just be and relax. and if things go wrong then just say

 

It beats being all the time.

Edited December 20, 2003 by bons

[+liz and Brian]

WOW! Did not know that Dr. Phil was a geocacher named bons!!!

I Don't think we are taking it too seriously at all, just think some people shoud have a little respect when they pick up a travel bug... If you are going to play the game, play by the rules! We bought the bugs and the things attached to them, put time into them, therefore, would like to see them move instead of being held hostage! I am sorry, but I am not going to buy them, get them going, and then smile and say, "oh shucks there goes another one!" everytime one dissapears. It is upsetting. The point of the forums is to talk with other players of the 'game' about things that happen involving Geocaching. Well, this is what happened to me and I posted this thread to see if anyone had suggestions on what I might could do, not what I should feel!

[+Renegade Knight]

The method I've heard works best in this case is to see if the guy caches with friends. If he won't respond directly the friends can be emailed and asked if they would do an "intervention" and rescue the bug.

[+liz and Brian]

That is a great idea, I tried that last night and unfortunately, both of the people who have my bugs are newbies and they both have found less than 4 cache's...

The logs they put say "we" but do not mention any names... THANKS! I usually check on the two accounts every other month or so to see if they have moved... I will keep an eye out for that!

[+bons]

Don't think we are taking it too seriously at all, just think some people shoud have a little respect when they pick up a travel bug... If you are going to play the game, play by the rules!

Well, if you want respect and playing by the rules, the proper thing to have done would have been to search the forums and see if the topic has been brought up before. The search button is that magnifying glass in the upper right hand corner that reads "Search". You should be able to find some useful threads since there's someone upset about every week that their bug was either taken by:

a: a newbie who didn't know any better and probably shouldn't be expected to know better.

b: someone who intended to return the bug to the wild until real life stepped on them hard (this is always followed by a complete lack of pity for the condition of the poor unfortunate who hasn't gotten out of his wheelchair and put the bug back in the wildnerness)

c: someone who hates travel bugs, probably from reading one too many threads where people complain about what happened to their travel bug.

We bought the bugs and the things attached to them, put time into them, therefore, would like to see them move instead of being held hostage!

You got a ransom note? Now that would be cool! What are they holding the bug hostage for? Two McToys and a virgin Geocoin?

I am sorry, but I am not going to buy them, get them going, and then smile and say, "oh shucks there goes another one!" everytime one dissapears. It is upsetting.

I agree. If it's upsetting you then you should quit buying them and getting them going. Because once you get them going they are out of your control and that's part of how the game works. You may not like that part, but there is very little you can do about it.

The point of the forums is to talk with other players of the 'game' about things that happen involving Geocaching. Well, this is what happened to me and I posted this thread to see if anyone had suggestions on what I might could do, not what I should feel!

What you can do is learn how to control your emotions when things outside of your control do not go as planned. The LAST thing I expect is my entry in the TB race to even finish. I have my doubts that it will even make it to Florida and having read about some of the problems with TBs in Florida I have even stronger doubts about the TB leaving Florida alive. But if it disappears, well, I still have the "copy" tag and I can enter that in another race. And if THAT disappears, well, I still have the tracking number, and I can always use that as well.

 

But as far as I can tell, you and a number of other people on this site have an unrealistic expectation as to the life expectancy and journey of a travel bug. They are not guaranteed to have a long and fruitful life, traveling down the path you have chosen for them. And unless I missed something, it's not geocaching.com's responsibility to make sure that it happens.

Edited December 20, 2003 by bons

[+TresOkies]

Well, if you want respect and playing by the rules, the proper thing to have done would have been to search the forums and see if the topic has been brought up before. The search button is that magnifying glass in the upper right hand corner that reads "Search". You should be able to find some useful threads since there's someone upset about every week that their bug was either taken by:

Liz has a very real concern and she's looking for some support. She does not deserve to be kicked in the stomach just because she hasn't read every post since Markwell started geocaching.

 

Groundspeak doesn't have a responsibility to take care of peoples' travel bugs, but they certainly could help. After all, they sell the bugs and we track them through their web site. They could provide a "travel bug arbitration" service that is well within their role as overseer. After all, they tell us not to put food in caches (or knives or dope) and most of us comply. They also monitor the forums and close the threads that don't meet their (somewhat convoluted) criteria.

 

I think a feature for solving TB disputes would be welcome. If your travel bug gets lost, you fill out a form and it gets sent to the arbitrator. The arbitrator looks at the details and sends a message to the holder to please provide their reasons for holding onto the bug. If the holder doesn't reply within a reasonable time (at least one week), then their account is frozen until they resolve the issue. Granted, that's not much of an impediment, but it's all that can be done. I'm not suggesting that we be overly punitive--if someone says they lost a bug or it's been stolen, that's alright. What is not alright is keeping silent on the issue when contacted. If a holder can't do anything about a bug they are holding (due to illness or whatever), they should endeavor to give it to another geocacher or send it back to the owner. I'm not saying this is the only solution and there certainly are some holes that need to be filled, but it's better than doing nothing.

 

Geocaching has many volunteers and some of those volunteers are travel bug fanatics. I would imagine one or more of these people would be happy to perform the role of arbitrator. I'd certainly take my turn at it.

 

Peace

 

-E

[+droosa]

Well, if you want respect and playing by the rules, the proper thing to have done would have been to search the forums and see if the topic has been brought up before. The search button is that magnifying glass in the upper right hand corner that reads "Search".

Hey Bons,

What they should have searched for was your views on people complaining about travel bug loses. The results of that search would have produced volumes. I don't think your opinion on the subject is a secret at this point.

 

IF it bothers you to read another thread about a missing travel bug, don't read it and don't reply. Or if you are a frustrated Moderator, apply for the job.

 

Maybe someday you will release a bug which will give your opinion a small amount of credibility.

[+bons]

We'll wait till Jan 2nd. That's when Frogeas Phil gets released, assuming he isn't held hostage by the USPS.

 

The second one will be released when my wife is done with her cache.

 

As for the other 6 TBs I've purchased, they, along with the geocoins, are slowly getting left in caches that I've enjoyed as swag except for a couple that have been given as a thank you to people who helped me get started. One has already gone over 500 miles.

 

And I agree, Liz and Brian do not deserve to be kicked in the stomach just because they havn't read every post since Markwell started geocaching. Likewise, people who didn't understand what they were doing when they picked up a travel bug don't need to be insulted, harassed, or suspended just because they were new or because life dealt them a few unexpected blows. I'm not going to show a lot of compassion for those people who seem incapable of showing compassion for newbies or people who have been in an accident. When people start talking about GPS cops (like Jeremy and crew don't have enough on their plate) or termination of benefits (ok, that would be what? no pocket queries or member only caches until a new account is created?) then I'm thinking people need to step back and remind themselves that this is just supposed to be a fun hobby. If it's pissing you off then you're taking it way too seriously.

 

I really thought TBs were a cool idea when I first came across them, but more and more I'm thinking that if all they do is make people upset then maybe they're not such a good idea after all. With what seems to be groups of people deliberately stealing TBs in Colorado, Utah, and Florida, and with all the people upset that their TB did not travel either in the right direction or by the right means of transportation and with all the people upset that their TB was tagged, bagged, or altered, I'm really wondering if the community is at a maturity level where it can handle the responsibilty of travel bugs, both on the owner's and on the mover's end of the spectrum.

 

Locally there are two caches that need TB's in order to be found. One TB has a hidden chamber with the co-ordinates, one TB has an West co-ordinate to the cache, and one TB has a North co-ordinate to the cache. The hidden chamber is gone, no replies to e-mails. And of the two co-ordinate ones, one has gone to another state and the other needs to be re-released by the owners since the cache it was in has been lost. All three of these problems are common and all three are to be expected, and I'll bet serious money that none of the people responsible for these actions read these forums. Chances are that if there was anything that TPTB could actually do to these people, the very act would simply result in the people getting pissed off and flaming the forum. I seriously doubt it would result in the magical return of the bugs. I'm thinking the likely result is more people destroying more TBs in more states out of some form of petty revenge against the community.

 

There are things I think would be effective: I'd like to be able to buy replacement TB tags with a specific number on them. That would beat having to stamp out something that may be mistaken for something other than a replacement TB tag. It would also be cool if I could buy a replacement TB tag with a geocoin number on them. If I could do that I'd buy a lot more geocoins with replacement tags and use them as tokens for the TBs I released.

 

But lost travel bugs and spilled milk should not be things we cry over.

Edited December 20, 2003 by bons

[+WalruZ]

Actually one thing that can help is to make sure your TB has some sort of goal tag before you release it. At least then the rankest newbies will feel the smack of the clue stick.

 

But Bons, I just don't buy your posts on this topic. Yes, a few TB owners get unduly irate about their bugs being in bags, or traveling backwards, but the single most common complaint about them is "somebody took my bug and then zoned out." That is a very reasonable thing to complain about - those complaints are not "getting pissed off and taking it way too seriously."

[+bons]

Well, since I'm tired of seeing it, and people are tired of me commenting about it, I'll simply start ignoring the TB section of the forums and release the rest of my tags as swag. If anyone comes up with a solution that works, feel free to let me know what it is. In the meantime I'll make sure I leave that TB where it lies unless I'm positive I can find a suitable cache within that 2 week time limit.

[+liz and Brian]

I just got back online since this morning and appriciate everyone's support! THANKS GUYS! Liz

[TangoEcho]

I agree with liz and Brian in that the snaggers - newbie or otherwise - should at least grace the desperate TB owner with a response when a polite email has been sent out regarding a missing TB. I have had really bad TB luck (I'm not complaining - just relating) to date and now one is MIA in the hands of a user that has not answered an extremely polite email query I sent. I feel your pain and hope that eventually some godd may come from all this. If not, I'll start putting herion and switchblades in the caches I lay out in the railroad yards.

[+bigredmed]

I sympathize with you. Personally, I feel that we should set up GC.com so that once you log a TB, when ever you log in to GC again, you should be directed to the TB page you have until you log it as dropped into a new cache. Just a polite, persistent reminder to keep the TB's moving.

[+team travel pig]

huh. i like that. a reminder that doesn't require the owner trying to decide whether to go diplomatic or angry. i did one of each and bug moved... only to be picked up and held again.......

[+RichAromas]

I may be pointing out the obvious, but that's never stopped me before .

 

In the past six months, I've had three completely different e-mail addresses, two of which are now defunct with no forwarding capabilities. Mail sent to those addresses, however (@cs.com and @earthlink.net) does not "bounce" but simply appears to have been delivered properly! I think this is because these services reserve my former account for something like 6 months in case I ever "come to my senses" and rejoin.

 

It's just possible that the e-mails to which you are not receiving responses are in fact not being read, due to changes of ISP.

 

Just a thought.

[+liz and Brian]

Hi again everyone! I was contacted this morning by team shin-rae and he said he put my bug into a cache in Cobb county. It has not been logged yet, so hopefully someone will find it and log it soon! THANKS Shin-rae if you are reading this! Liz

[+TresOkies]

The person that had Liz' bug, had my bug as well. They were both placed in a cache recently and both have been picked up by other cachers. Thanks to any who may have had a hand in on making this happen.

 

Cheers

 

-E