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Sock Puppets Hiding Caches?


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Recently we had a new cache pop up in our area. Mining Was Never Easy is in a place very near to one of our other caches and a place we have travelled through extensively while out four-wheeling. You can imagine then, with swag like this in a cache, we decided to give it a try, taking (of course) good items to trade and lots of them.

 

We have tried twice to find this cache. Both times we have visited the exact coordinates with less than three feet of error and up to eleven satellites hitting strong. From the description, we should see some kind of mine or mining complex. This whole area was mined extensively in the 1800's and early 1900's for copper, nickel and some silver and platinum. The majority of the mines are, by necessity listed with the USGS, and show up on their maps, of which we have access to one current one of the area. There are no mines listed or located within 600 yards of the posted coordinates.

 

In the description, a mention is made of the 'right eye of the copper skull'. Well, we know of a mine with the look of a skull, so we headed there. The road to it also matched the description of a difficult 4x4 road. We made it in our '00 Ford 4x4 long wheelbase truck, but it would have been much easier (and with less of a pucker factor) with a Jeep or short wheelbase vehicle. There was also indications of recent traffic in that area. But we found nothing but trash and spent ammo at the Copper Creek Mines. It was worth the adventure, but we were really looking forward to a box of trinkets to log as found.

 

We have been this way twice, spending four hours the first time and eight hours the second, without finding anything.

 

I have concerns regarding this cache.

First, why does a person hide a cache using coordinates and claim the cache is 150 to 200 YARDS from that spot? Feet I can see, but yards?

 

Second, I have emailed the cache hider and days ago and received no reply. I was pleasant and used the opportunity to explain our search and ask for a bit of help. I thought that since this person was also familiar with the area, they might know where we messed up without giving anything away.

 

Third, this is the hider's only cache. Zero found and this one hidden. For some reason the person's handle, "Ciaobella" sounds/looks familiar, and I thought maybe I'd seen posts in the forums, but I did a search and nothing came up. Could this be a sock puppet? Could people be trying to pull our collective legs?

 

If this last is the case, then sending folks out to mine shafts, regardless of the warning behind the difficulty levels, this is a very dangerous place to be chasing wild geese. How long should I wait to hear from CiaoBella before I ask (if I even should) Jeremy to archive this?

 

I don't mind having my leg yanked on occasion, but I would hate to see someone not as familiar with the area as we are to attempt this and get stuck or injured for some seemingly attractive cache booty.

 

Redwood

---

 

"Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda, Jedi Master from Star Wars - Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back

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quote:
Originally posted by Mopar:

how come after 2 trips and 12 hrs of searching, you havent logged a not found, or at least a note, on the cache? This way other cachers considering going after it can see there may be a problem.


 

Well, I wanted to at least get some feedback from the CiaoBella first, before I posted anything negative, even if it is a 'not found'.

 

We recently experienced a cache where three adults went, had a very hard time at a 2-terrain difficulty cache and the hider called us 'weenies' because he didn't find the climb difficult. I am really wondering if the same group hid this cache to see if it would get a rise out of us. Hence my concern.

 

We actually want to try again to find it, as we noticed other washes and roads that might allow access to adjacent areas in which to look, even though they are no where near the coordinates. But, I will post a 'not found' if you think it would be a good idea.

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

Well, I wanted to at least get some feedback from the CiaoBella first, before I posted anything negative, even if it is a 'not found'.

But, I will post a 'not found' if you think it would be a good idea.


 

Well, the "proper" way to log has got to be one of the most beaten to death horses here. I just think for a difficult cache like that especially, at least a NOTE on the page would be nice. I mean, 4hrs and 8hrs searching? If I was gonna go for that cache, and I saw that type of log, I would probably reconsider and wait for verification that the cache was valid, not plundered, and located properly. I would also prob start plans to tag along with the GeoGadgets once we knew the cache existed. icon_smile.gif

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

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quote:
Originally posted by The GeoGadgets Team:

Well, I wanted to at least get some feedback from the CiaoBella first, before I posted anything negative, even if it is a 'not found'.

But, I will post a 'not found' if you think it would be a good idea.


 

Well, the "proper" way to log has got to be one of the most beaten to death horses here. I just think for a difficult cache like that especially, at least a NOTE on the page would be nice. I mean, 4hrs and 8hrs searching? If I was gonna go for that cache, and I saw that type of log, I would probably reconsider and wait for verification that the cache was valid, not plundered, and located properly. I would also prob start plans to tag along with the GeoGadgets once we knew the cache existed. icon_smile.gif

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

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The first attempt at this cache was at 11pm (had to try it at night) on the following day of cache placement. I did see some tracks of vehicles in the vicinity of the cache, some in remote areas, but no "SKULL". It was a fun attempt and will look some more (fat guy needs the excersise) because that area is like looking for a needle in a hay stack.

 

And for anyone comming to our area, give us a call. We'll cache with ya......

 

"My gps say's it RIGHT HERE".

http://www.geogadgets.com

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As a programmer, I get this all the time. My latest project involving online coupons for restaurants has prompted the question. What if people just print out 100 of them? It took me the longest time to answer that and come up with a solution that would limit the use to one per person. Also, today at Ralph's Market, there was a new checkout line where you can scan your own groceries. I asked what if I left something in the cart and didn't scan it? They seemed to have addressed that issue by using a system of scales. The total weight before scanning in the cart and after scanning on the shelf they provide must match. I'm sure there are some other measures they took into account assuming that if there is a hole in the system, then somebody will exploit it.

Well, now here at geocaching, we seem to have found the exploiter. In the forums, it is just annoying. But, if they can 'place' a cache that is not there, then we are in trouble. This one is obvious, there are no finds and very little activity. A cautious cacher would see the red flags. But, since that is obvious, then maybe next time they will take more effort and make it look better. I think Jeremy has access to the IP's etc. and can root out a mole easily. We IT techno nerds need to put our heads together and close the holes in this system. Any thoughts from people who have dealt with this type of security issue on your own systems?

 

stealyourcache.jpg

Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills

One man gathers what another man spills - St. Stephen (on caching)

-Dru Morgan www.theheavenlyhost.com/dru

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Look at the cache description... "RED planet", "hunt for RED october", "COPPER skull", etc...

 

Gotta wonder guys...I think that would wierd me out to the point of not going after that one. Very creepy!

 

If someone posted a cache in my area with lots of sponge references and a similarly impressive list of cache contents, I might stay away from it.

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Good catch, Infosponge! I didn't even notice that until you pointed it out. Of course, there ARE other explainations.

it was placed by a team. Some cachers around here team up to place caches. Since they all have individual accounts as well, they created a team account which is just used for placing caches.

the cache is legit and was placed specifically to attract RedWoodRed. Maybe just an admirer.

 

the cache is legit, just hard to find because of rather poor info.

the cache is legit, but plundered already.

Sadly, my gut feeling is this is a fake cache, which is sad. Sorta like fake mayday calls made by some boaters. Where is the fun is in making people expend time and money looking for something that isn't there?

 

Illegitimus non carborundum!

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"HINTS???? Morons. Its in a mine shaft, but i aint tellin which one. If you find the shafts, though, you're close."

 

Perhaps someone's spying on your efforts?

 

I noticed the "red" theme in the DVDs, too. O Brother Where Art Thou seems pretty clear but I'm not sure what the significance of Breakfast at Tiffiny's is...

 

...you haven't been taking weather reports to shady older fellows in jail, have you??

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Wow. I didn't even see the 'red' references until pointed out. The copper one I breezed over because there are so many copper mines here. The 'Breakfast at Tiffanys' could refer to Steak N Eggs and Muffin Man, maybe. Oh man! A chill just went WAY up my back! They've covered the whole family, but it still stretches things to get to that point, in my opinion.

 

Steak and Jackalope want to go back one more time tomorrow and have a look for it in Jackalope's Jeep. I think that for propriety's sake it would be good to make sure we aren't accusing a potentially good geocacher because we have wild imaginations or are paranoid.

 

But if this fails to pan out tomorrow, I will ask Jeremy to archive the cache. If nothing else, we have found an interesting place to put a four-wheel drive cache!

 

Now, if you will excuse me, I'm going to go curly up on the couch, watch the ash-filled sky and try not to think of conspiracy theories...

 

RedwoodRed

 

How much red would a redwood red if a redwood could red wood?

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Sure sounds like a bogus cache, although from your description, the trip up there sure sounds enjoyable. On the other hand, my cache does exist and the coords should be dead on, should you guys decide to do some more 4-wheelin before the snows return to these mountains. If not, no doubt this one will sit undisturbed until next spring.

 

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quote:
Originally posted by Navdog:

Calling other cachers morons in the cache hint won't win you many friends, but this could just be the West Coast version of the "Alluvial Materials" cache. Some old timers will remember how that one got a lot of negative talk and ruffled a few feathers before someone finally found it.


 

True; it could be an extremely well-hidden cache. But I would like to point out a couple of significant differences:

 

Alluvial Material was very well hidden. The actual cache location, compared with indicated ground zero, was well within the accuracy limits of most gps devices.

 

The team that owns Alluvial Material took great effort in immediately addressing any and all concerns regarding their cache ... they also remained "nice" about it.

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I think that I may not have to worry about asking for this thing to be archived... the entire area has been evacuated (of those living nearby) and is currently restricted to firefighting agencies.

 

This may be the case for your Mr. McGrew, too, makaio. The Sour-Bisquit complex fire has spread throughout that area and we will find out tonight if the entire Illinois Valley will be evacuated to Crescent City. Currently the Valley is cut off from Grants Pass due to the fire and it is my understanding that everything north of Cave Junction has already been evacuated.

 

We are watching these fires very closely, as Steak and I are both assisting the Red Cross with communications and preparation for evacuation procedures. Once things calm down we will be up in that area and will try to find your cache. I will let you know as soon as possible it's fate.

 

RedwoodRed

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Somehow, it doesn't surprise me that fellow geocachers are assisting others in their time of need during this long fire season. I hope those who are displaced can return to their homes soon and that nature spares them from too much loss. And let's hope the fires don't impact Crescent City any worse than temporarily boosting it's population.

 

As for my cache, it's location probably couldn't be better to survive a fire should one pass over the area. Without giving too much information, it's in an area which is a wide expanse of rock - no trees or vegetation to speak of within a few hundred feet. Looking forward to it's first log when the area reopens and you or someone else hunts it.

 

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