Is everybody paranoid because of the war?

[+Jacksons]

Is everybody paranoid because of the war,or is it just my imagination. recently all the topics seem to have a theme of "we cant do this...,someone might get hurt...,lets make a rule. What do you think?

 

I'm a man and I can change if I have to,I guess.

[Northern-Lights]

Of what.....dental floss, or lighters, or feathers, or a pocket knife?.......Nope.....and certainly not worried about an attack here at home...Can it happen, well, we saw that about a year and a half ago. Did worrying about it stop it.....or help those of us that worked the site any?......Nope. All worry does is put you in the grave faster. Like the song says......Don't worry.....be Happy!

 

Earth First!!! We'll cache the other planets later!!

[Radman Forever]

I'm a man and I squeal like a girl when I see mice or birds. But that doesn't make me any more of a man.....

 

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Faster than a dial-up Internet connection, stronger than any band nerd, look up at the sky! ....is it a bat..... no .....is it my grandma's mustache..... NO! IT'S RADMAN Version 2.0!

[+Breaktrack]

quote:

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Originally posted by Radman Version 2.0:

I'm a man and I squeal like a girl when I see mice or birds. But that doesn't make me any more of a man.....

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LOL, Radman, you crack me up....

 

On the topic though, we have less to be paranoid about in this country than any other country on earth, so my opinion is - we do this silly crap to ourselves... we are a nation of worry-warts!

 

I have more of a chance of falling over from a heart attack right now than I do from suffering a terrorist att

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

[+elmo-fried]

I won't deny things have changed in my attitude, but perhaps it's just that I'm maturing a bit. (My Wife says I haven't tho, heh). Basically, I keep my mouth shut and don't smart off to anyone in an authority position, well except rent-a-cops ;-p

 

But then just Sunday I was climbing a high-voltage power structure on a busy street corner to get a cache (cache wasn't that high up and could have been reached by a talle person, but I'm short).

 

Jason Roysdon

jason.roysdon.net

[Radman Forever]

What's to worry about the war with Iraq and terrorism. Let's say that the terrorists are bad monkeys who want to hurt innocent people. The American Army is the parent who has come over to come spank the monk..... AHEM oops!

 

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Faster than a dial-up Internet connection, stronger than any band geek, look up at the sky! ....is it a bat..... no .....is it my grandma's mustache..... NO! IT'S RADMAN Version 2.0! See I even have my own neon sign!

[+evergreenhiker!]

Nope. It hasn't made me paranoid. You can't let that stuff get to you. Life is too short. All you can do is just be prepared with emergency stuff in the home and in the car, but don't over do it.

[+Dave_W6DPS]

SO, we went from DEFCON Fuschia to Chartreuse...

 

SO, our security folks 'suggested' we might want to get to work a little early to allow the bomb sniffing dogs more time with our cars before they let us in the gate...

 

SO, our Boy Scout Atomic Energy Merit Badge program is on hold... (I'm not sure if we are keeping the scouts out of harm's way, or keeping them and their leaders away from out plant as security risks.)

 

SO, my desk is at the center of a "NO-FLY ZONE"...

 

What, me worry?

 

My two cents worth, refunds available on request. (US funds only)

[+Divine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Breaktrack:

we have less to be paranoid about in this country than any other country on earth

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Now that's an interesting point of view. How do you measure that?

 

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

[CacheNCarryMA]

quote:

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quote:

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Originally posted by Breaktrack:

we have less to be paranoid about in this country than any other country on earth

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Now that's an interesting point of view. How do you measure that?

 

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There are secret government agencies that track such information

[+Breaktrack]

quote:

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Originally posted by Divine:

quote:

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Originally posted by Breaktrack:

we have less to be paranoid about in this country than any other country on earth

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Now that's an interesting point of view. How do you measure that?

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At least to someone who does not have the same frame of reference. I lived in Europe for three years and have experienced "your" level of paranoia in that region. Have you lived in the United States for any comparable amount of time? If not we do not have the same frame of reference and there is no possible way to explain it to you. I mean this in the best possible way and do not intend what I've written here to be any kind of complaint or disrespect to you or your question, I just don't see how to tell you how it is measured. It's not like baking a cake where you put a cup of this and a cup of that, it's measured by limits placed on authority, on the right to express my opinion without fear of my government, on being able to move from one end of my country to the other without asking permission of anyone, by having a military that is not used against it's own citizens to maintain a certain political party or person. It just goes on and on like that, there are too many to write it is so extensive.

 

All I can say is, in my most humble opinion, I honestly believe, we have less to be paranoid about than any other place on the planet due to our tradition of freedom that no other country on earth has. We only had ONE king in our history, and we didn't take to him very well...LOL. How many other countries can say they've only ever had one king or dictator? Please enlighten me if I've forgotten any, I'm sure my memory isn't perfect. That tradition of freedom, that mindset if you will, that freedom is the natural state of things, makes this a better place in that sense. My statement was not meant as a "slam" on anyone else, just a statment of what "I" feel.

 

Hopefully I've clarified my original statement.

 

Thanks for a great discussion of the topic though, good question.

 

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

[+Divine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Breaktrack:

I lived in Europe for three years and have experienced "your" level of paranoia in that region. Have you lived in the United States for any comparable amount of time?

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If 6 months in Appleton, Wisconsin counts comparable then yes.

quote:

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{level of paranoia in countries} it's measured by limits placed on authority, on the right to express my opinion without fear of my government, on being able to move from one end of my country to the other without asking permission of anyone, by having a military that is not used against it's own citizens to maintain a certain political party or person.

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Ummm... exactly where in Europe did you stay for those 3 years and what years were they? Because all the things you listed are crystal clear matter-of-course every day things in every western European country today. The only exceptions that cross my mind are some of the Eastern Europe countries when the Soviet Union was still 'alive'. And the UK having issues with Northern Ireland might affect their level of paranoia, but I'm sure a UK citizen can clarify their situation better than I ever could. Otherwise I really fail to see the difference between your freedom and mine. Absolutely no one would be interested if I decide to hop in my car and drive from our capital to the northernmost point of Finland. Well, perhaps my wife would ask a few questions, but...

 

Oh, maybe you meant moving around in Europe is not as 'free' as in the US, because there might be some border formalities when you cross the borders. Well, I'm sure you have some formalities at Mexican and Canadian borders too. It seems many US people see Europe as a homogenous cluster of similar regions. Well it's not. Europe is not one country. It's a continent with tens of countries. These countries are not alike. There are tens of different official languages, different cultures and habits. Finland is a pretty much different country from e.g. Portugal. We share the continent and we both are members in the European Union, but we still speak Finnish here and they speak Portuguese there. We both have the freedom to say what we want with those languages, provided by our governments.

 

quote:

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We only had ONE king in our history, and we didn't take to him very well...LOL. How many other countries can say they've only ever had one king or dictator? Please enlighten me if I've forgotten any

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Ok, here you go: Finland. We have had a parlamentary democracy and a president since we became independent. No royalty. And speaking of which, what's the big deal with having a king anyway? You really think the poor Swedes are severely oppressed by their king Carl Gustaf? Come on, it's just another system of government. King inequals dictator. Every Western European country with royalty today has a parliament which the people elects.

 

As for other paranoia-raising things, Finland has never had e.g. slavery or other government supported racial prejudicing system, women got their suffrage in 1906 being the 3rd country to do that after New Zealand and Australia etc etc. Like you said, there's too many things to list here.

 

Oh, one more thing, concernig paranoia: In our honeymoon trip in the US summer 2001 (NYC, NOLA, & many places in between) it astonished us that in several cities there actually are areas you shouldn't go unless you want trouble. Of course we knew that from the news, guides and whatnot, but still, that is something very very unfamiliar and disturbing to think about.

 

All in all, I still fail to see why the US would have less to be paranoid than ANY other country. I agree that the measuring of such a thing is difficult, probably impossible. I also want to emphasize that I in no way want to say that e.g. Finland is better place to live than the USA or 'slam' USA in any way.

 

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

[dsandbro]

No. We are at war to make Hussein paranoid.

 

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Friends don't let Friends geocache drunk.

[+carleenp]

If people in the US have less reason to be parnoid than in Europe, I would tend to say it is because of our physical isolation from many other countries and our large rural areas and not so much how many "freedoms" we have. At least this is how it is for me. E.g., I live in Nebraska and feel pretty darn safe. I'm just not very worried about people wanting to hit my rural area. I went to Spain and felt a little worried in Madrid about various petty crime because of the large city, but then felt totally safe in a more rural area of Spain. I went to DC right after 9/11 and felt quite paranoid. So, for me anyway it is a function of remoteness and potential danger areas and not the country I am in.

 

Regardless, I don't tend to feel very paranoid wherever I am!

 

[+Confucius' Cat]

The only thing I'm paranoid about is being mistaken for a terrorist when I'm searching around a covered bridge at night.

 

GDAE, Dave

[+Breaktrack]

quote:

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Originally posted by Divine:

Well, perhaps my wife would ask a few questions, but...

 

Ok, here you go: Finland. We have had a parlamentary democracy and a president since we became independent. No royalty. And speaking of which, what's the big deal with having a king anyway? You really think the poor Swedes are severely oppressed by their king Carl Gustaf? Come on, it's just another system of government. King inequals dictator. Every Western European country with royalty today has a parliament which the people elects.

 

All in all, I still fail to see why the US would have less to be paranoid than ANY other country. I agree that the measuring of such a thing is difficult, probably impossible. I also want to emphasize that I in no way want to say that e.g. Finland is better place to live than the USA or 'slam' USA in any way.

 

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body. -

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Hehehe, first, loved the comment about your wife perhaps having questions if you fled across the country, I think we can all relate to that one, yes?

 

Second, don't I remember a phase where the Soviets kind of "invaded" Finland, in our history, the last invasion was in the 1812-1813 time period, thus we don't have that as a recent experience, thus not much paranoia about being invaded.

 

Thirdly, the kings you mention are not the exclusive government as in the days of "rule by divine right". The kings of old were dictators by today's definition. The kings of today are "ornaments" by today's definitions...lol.

 

I guess I took my feelings as being of my country's level of paranoia, rather then my own personal level of paranoia. When I lived in Europe, based in Germany, I visited a lot of countries, and in every one of them the police officers on the beat wore machine guns strapped across their back. This was waaaaaay before 9/11 and I had not ever seen that till I got to Europe, and I didn't see it in my own country till after 9/11. So perhaps my perception of a country (U.S.) where there are neighborhoods where it is not wise to visit if you're not from there, as opposed to countries where it is common for police to carry heavy weaponry usually reserved for the military in my country, made me feel one was much more paranoid than the other.

 

All in all, you made good points all around, and I feel we have played this tug of war to a draw, and well pulled!! I've enjoyed the discussion even if we've solved nothing... kind of like finding a virtual cache, didn't get any mctoys, but loved the view, LOL.

 

Take care, and the next time you decide to come to the states, come down to Texas for crying out loud, you'll enjoy yourself a LOT more...lol. I'll have to try to get to Finland now, you've peaked my interest.

 

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

[+Divine]

quote:

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Originally posted by Breaktrack:

don't I remember a phase where the Soviets kind of "invaded" Finland, in our history, the last invasion was in the 1812-1813 time period, thus we don't have that as a recent experience, thus not much paranoia about being invaded.

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You got it almost right. The years were 1808-1809 and the war is called 'The war of Finland', which was part of the great Napoleon wars (or whatever you call them). It was fought between Russia and Sweden. The Russian (not Soviet yet) troops invaded the area of Finland which became part of Russia at the end of the war. The point is, Finland was a province of Sweden at that time, and it became a province of Russia. It never was an independent country before 1917. But from that point, once there was a nationality and country called Finland, there's only been a president, government and parliament. So granted, the geographical area of Finland has been under reign of both a king and a czar, but the independent country has never been but a democracy.

quote:

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the days of "rule by divine right"

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Ahhh...the DIVINE right. That sounds good. That sounds REALLY good!

quote:

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When I lived in Europe, based in Germany, I visited a lot of countries, and in every one of them the police officers on the beat wore machine guns strapped across their back. This was waaaaaay before 9/11

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Hmm..I can see that having been a usual sight in perhaps East Germany or West Berlin before The Wall crumbled, and also on borders when moving from a country to another. Last summer we made a train trip around Europe visiting Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Czech Republic and Switzerland (man, wish I had known about geocaching then...), and I think the only heavier-than-handguns we saw were at the Slovakian and Czech borders. Heck, nowhere else they didn't even want to see even our passports. Of course, if you visited the areas near Balkan area during the war there I can see there were policemen with machine guns.

quote:

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All in all, you made good points all around, and I feel we have played this tug of war to a draw, and well pulled!! I've enjoyed the discussion even if we've solved nothing

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Couldn't agree more. I'd call it a draw too. IMO carleenp made quite a good point about the isolated geographical position of the USA and the difference of rural areas and big cities having something to do with the feeling of paranoia.

quote:

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Take care, and the next time you decide to come to the states, come down to Texas for crying out loud, you'll enjoy yourself a LOT more...lol.

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Wow, you're already the second Texan geocacher who has invited me there! Guess I really have to try that southern hospitality ('Welcome to Texas! Now you can go home.') the next time, especially when also my dear dear friend is from Ft. Worth.

quote:

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I'll have to try to get to Finland now, you've peaked my interest.

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You're very welcome here! If you could find 15 geocaches during your stay, you could brag around back home saying you've found more than 10% of Finland's caches...

 

And the only paranoia related thing you would notice would be on one of the Black Sabbath cds which I would made you listen to..

 

- All you need is a sick mind and a healthy body.

 

[This message was edited by Divine on March 27, 2003 at 12:13 AM.]

[+Captain Morgan]

quote:

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Originally posted by Radman Version 2.0:

What's to worry about the war with Iraq and terrorism. Let's say that the terrorists are bad monkeys who want to hurt innocent people. The American Army is the parent who has come over to come spank the monk..... AHEM oops!

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...parent who spanks good, innocent monkeys too.

 

Oops, sorry, i couldn't resist...

 

[+Tervas]

Talking about kings and dictators...

Do you mean a leader who can start a war just because he himself wants to? Not many kings have that kind of power in Europe anymore.

 

Errare humanum ets.

[+jonboy]

As our promised cake walk into Baghdad turns into a bloody fiasco, and we have to flatten the country in order to "liberate" it, we can distract ourselves with our silly little hide and seek game and worry about will our GPS signal get jammed.

 

What we should worry about when we cheer as we watch Baghdad erupt in explosions, is how will this make the world more safe? If you sow the wind, you will reap the whirlwind. I would have loved to be wrong about this war, and see our troops cheered as liberators as we romped to an easy victory, but the exiles we were promised would rush in to join us are instead rushing in to help defend their country from the invader. The armies we were promised would surrender in droves to our superior might, are instead launching a guerilla war in our rear.

 

Yeah, I am paranoid, like a guy who is watching a fire rage out of control and waiting for it to reach his house.

[+Breaktrack]

quote:

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Originally posted by jonboy:

As our promised cake walk into Baghdad turns into a bloody fiasco, and we have to flatten the country in order to "liberate" it, we can distract ourselves with our silly little hide and seek game and worry about will our GPS signal get jammed.

 

What we should worry about when we cheer as we watch Baghdad erupt in explosions, is how will this make the world more safe? If you sow the wind, you will reap the whirlwind. I would have loved to be wrong about this war, and see our troops cheered as liberators as we romped to an easy victory, but the exiles we were promised would rush in to join us are instead rushing in to help defend their country from the invader. The armies we were promised would surrender in droves to our superior might, are instead launching a guerilla war in our rear.

 

Yeah, I am paranoid, like a guy who is watching a fire rage out of control and waiting for it to reach his house.

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Yeah, you have a point.... we've lost 19 guys to enemy action, while capturing 7,000 prisoners and causing nearly a 1,000 enemy casualties, while moving farther and faster than any army in history, even us. We've caused fewer civilian casualties per mile driven than any army in history. We've freed people who are still so afraid of Saddam they won't even speak to reporters, much less rise up, for fear the secret police can STILL get to them, but yeah, it's a bloody fiasco....

 

You must listen to ABC, CBS, CNN, and NBC and their expert comments on the war, you just seem so informed.

 

 

"Trade up, trade even, or don't trade!!!" My philosophy of life.

[+Team Tecmage]

I think we are starting to learn the lessons that many other countries learned awhile ago. Terror here has always existed (Boston Tea Party, John Brown's raid at Harper's Ferry, OKC bombing, WTC Bombing, etc), but we have always swept it under the rug (or called it "domestic terrorism- like that makes it any better).

 

Have you noticed that no one has ever explained why it was okay to carry "personal protection" in the form of knives on board commercial aircraft prior to 9/11? How about why the feds are demanding state and local governments step up security and homeland defense, but aren't willing to help pay for it? If Saddam Hussein was "contained" and proved no immediate threat to us, why military action now? Why not back and add teeth to inspections?

 

I'm not paranoid, but I do believe that a lot of things are being done in the name of protecting America that have more to do with deflecting attention from other things.