EarthCache logging tasks

[+arisoft]

Unacceptable logging tasks

• Questions that can be answered without visiting the site, such as stating an elevation reading.
• Questions that assume prior knowledge of geology, such as "What type of rock is found here?"
• Asking geocachers to research the topic online.
• Asking geocachers to quote information from a sign.
• Asking geocachers to take measurements that do not relate to the earth science lesson and only prove that they visited the site. For example, “Measure the height of the boulder.”

How many EarthCaches comply with these guidelines?

[Neos2]

I split your post off into it's own thread. It was off topic in the thread about which Earthcache you chose to fulfill this months challenge. 

[+arisoft]

Thanks for separating this thread. Let's see if any cache is worth reporting.

[+niraD]

12 hours ago, arisoft said:

How many EarthCaches comply with these guidelines?

Keep in mind that these guidelines have changed over the years, and existing EarthCaches are grandfathered when the guidelines change. For example, my EarthCache uses information on signs to answer some of the questions, which was allowed when it was published, but which is no longer allowed for new EarthCaches.

[+CAVinoGal]

15 hours ago, arisoft said:

Unacceptable logging tasks

• Questions that can be answered without visiting the site, such as stating an elevation reading.
• Questions that assume prior knowledge of geology, such as "What type of rock is found here?"
• Asking geocachers to research the topic online.
• Asking geocachers to quote information from a sign.
• Asking geocachers to take measurements that do not relate to the earth science lesson and only prove that they visited the site. For example, “Measure the height of the boulder.”

How many EarthCaches comply with these guidelines?

 

I guess I have done many grandfathered Earthcaches. then, as I have done all of these things in studying and gathering answers for Earthcaches.  I didn't realize these are no longer allowed as tasks to complete (I've never even tried to create an Earthcache, but I do enjoy doing them).

• Questions that can be answered without visiting the site, such as stating an elevation reading. - I've done a few where elevation was one of the questions to answer.  In one, it was the difference in elevation between two points, which actually factored into the EC lesson.
• Questions that assume prior knowledge of geology, such as "What type of rock is found here?"   This is a common question it seems - based on clues given in the EC write up and looking at the "lay of the land", identify the rock you see....
• Asking geocachers to research the topic online.  I've learned by researching online, digging deeper, even if not specifically asked to do so.  It gives me a better understanding of what I saw.
• Asking geocachers to quote information from a sign.  I've done this for EC's - read the sign, look at the area, what does the sign say about XXX?
• Asking geocachers to take measurements that do not relate to the earth science lesson and only prove that they visited the site. For example, “Measure the height of the boulder.”  Or measure the temperature of the water in the stream at GZ, or estimate the length of the crevasse...we've done all of this.

I get that tasks have changed over the years, and what's allowed and isn't allowed has changed.  Doing something unrelated to the geology lesson just to prove you were at GZ seems a bit much, but most of the tasks listed above were incorprated into the lesson to illustrate a point.  It was not so much to prove you were there, though it did accomplish that, but to reinforce the lesson, and apply what you read to what is actually, physically there.

 

Besides all this, why worry if EC's do or don't follow the guidelines?  I assume (maybe erroneously) that the Geoawares ensure that new caches are within the guidelines, and that any EC I attempt was within the guidelines at the time of publication.  And if the tasks seem too complex, too mundane, then I just skip the EC, and do the ones that I feel comfortable and competent to do correctly and do the tasks that are asked.

[geoawareUSA9]

15 hours ago, arisoft said:

How many EarthCaches comply with these guidelines?

 

All of the ones published after this section was added to the guidelines should.

 

Like most guideline changes, this was not retroactive, so not all caches that existed at the time comply.
 

I've tried to update most of our older ones so they're compliant with current guidelines, but for some, I've not had a chance to return and develop good on-site tasks. One was overly dependent on a sign, which faded to illegibility, so it had to go.

[Neos2]

The various changes to the guidelines happened over time. If I recall correctly, the instructions not to use  wording on signs as a proof of visit task came about 2012. The guideline change to allow the cache owner to ask for photos didn't happen until 2019. The reviewers have been very good about adapting to the changes, and in my experience, almost all of the EarthCaches I have visited or read through follow the guidelines in place at the time they were made. 

I feel many EarthCache owners have a difficult time deciding on a learning activity. I get it. I was a high school science teacher; I had to design learning activities for 14 year old students. Sometimes a learning activity is obvious, other times it takes some thought.

I get the impression that those COs that have many logging steps are concerned their learning activity is too simple. That is why I encourage people to come into this forum and brainstorm with others if they get stuck designing that part of the EarthCache. 

[+niraD]

9 hours ago, Neos2 said:

If I recall correctly, the instructions not to use  wording on signs as a proof of visit task came about 2012.

My EarthCache was published in late 2015. At that time, using information on signs was allowed.

[+Goldenwattle]

I would much prefer Earthcaches with answers from signs. It proves you are there, you learn something actually reading the information sign, and it's not as 'painful' as for some Earthcaches, trying to answer the CO questions, which aren't always as simple and clear as they should be, and have just lessened the experience of visiting an interesting and fascinating place. 

[+JL_HSTRE]

I like the idea of Earthcaches. The execution is often frustrating or disappointing - the tasks, not the locations.

 

The Guidelines have changed so many times I would guess most active Earthcaches couldn't be published today as they are currently written. I've pretty much given up trying to create any because it's seems very difficult to find something that avoids all the prohibitions while also providing sufficient educational material on the cache page.

 

For awhile photos couldn't be required, but now they can be. I don't understand why photos as proof of visiting the site are allowed, but questions that only serve as proof of visiting the site aren't allowed.

 

As a semi-random sample, I looked at the 24 Earthcaches that I Found on my vacation earlier this month:

• at least 8 included at least one question that could be answered without visiting the site, usually either by asking for information to be regurgitated from the cache description or asking for the height/width of something that can easily be found online like a waterfall or a river.
• 7 involved one at least one question that involves regurgitating info from signage. For one, all the questions are from signage, and since some of the signage has been missing for years so answers must be sought for those questions online. For another, all answers are contained in a handout given to all visitors.
• 6 involved measuring something at the location, such as a boulder.
• 1 involved online research (there was no way to answer the question at GZ or from the cache page)
• 1 involved an expectation of prior knowledge in the form of proving a classification chart full of terminology that is not explained on the cache page.

The total is greater than 24 because many of the caches contained more than 1 violation.

 

Additionally, I skipped one other Earthcache that asked for several measurements and calculations, without explaining what tools or methods should be used to do so.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by JL_HSTRE

[Neos2]

13 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I've pretty much given up trying to create any because it's seems very difficult to find something that avoids all the prohibitions while also providing sufficient educational material on the cache page.

 

 

If you want to try your hand at creating an EarthCache, you'll find the people in here are willing to help. They can offer suggestions for tweaks of your ideas, and help come up with simple, practical, even interesting learning activities. 

For most of us, the learning activity is the challenging part to create. We don't want it to be so simple it insults the visitor or bores them, but we also don't want something so tedious it puts people off. It's a matter of seriously asking yourself "What specifically do I want them to learn?" and then "How can I most easily get them to see that?" It can be tricky, but when you hit on it, it is instantly clear! I know, I faced that sort of decision multiple times a week with 180 students the same age we aim at for our EarthCache understanding level. It does get easier with practice, and again, chances are someone in here will cheerfully help you smooth out the rough edges. 

[+niraD]

On 10/27/2023 at 9:38 PM, JL_HSTRE said:

• at least 8 included at least one question that could be answered without visiting the site, usually either by asking for information to be regurgitated from the cache description or asking for the height/width of something that can easily be found online like a waterfall or a river.

As long as there are other questions that require being on site, what's the problem with a question or two that can be answered from reading the cache description or from searching the internet?

 

On 10/27/2023 at 9:38 PM, JL_HSTRE said:

• 7 involved one at least one question that involves regurgitating info from signage. For one, all the questions are from signage, and since some of the signage has been missing for years so answers must be sought for those questions online. For another, all answers are contained in a handout given to all visitors.

Older EarthCaches may be grandfathered. For example, the prohibition on using information on signs was added after my EarthCache was published.

[+arisoft]

3 hours ago, niraD said:

As long as there are other questions that require being on site, what's the problem with a question or two that can be answered from reading the cache description or from searching the internet?

 

It should be a mystery cache if it requires research that goes beyond reading the cache page. Learning by reading the cache page is the supposed method of the earth cache lesson.

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, arisoft said:

It should be a mystery cache if it requires research that goes beyond reading the cache page. Learning by reading the cache page is the supposed method of the earth cache lesson.

What about caches where the information is intended to be found on site, but it can also be found online? Does that automatically turn the cache into a mystery/puzzle cache, even if the CO intended it to be an EarthCache, or a multi-cache, or a virtual cache, or whatever?

[+arisoft]

2 hours ago, niraD said:

What about caches where the information is intended to be found on site, but it can also be found online? Does that automatically turn the cache into a mystery/puzzle cache, even if the CO intended it to be an EarthCache, or a multi-cache, or a virtual cache, or whatever?

 

Good question! For a long distance multi cache reviewer required that the information from the starting point was not able to find online.

 

Anyway, in your hypothetical case, answering do not require research that goes beyond reading the cache page if there is possibility to do it on field. A field puzzle is not considered  research. You can use field puzzles as a stage of multi-cache.