proper multi cache procedure check

[+Jayeffel]

I have a cache in the works, I have the number assigned and a description written. Awaiting permission from the establishment.

 

What I at first  intended was to place a tricky cache on a metal box, but I found that that spot conflicted with another cache by about 2O feet! So Io moved it to a good spot, a spot I had placed a cache before - maybe 2 feet difference at the most.

 

But then I got to thinking, why not make it a multi- with the first stage at the new intended spot, and the second stage at the spot where I originally planned it. 

 

The cache s now considered is to be placed on an eyeglass collection box placed by our Lion Club, permission from the club had been obtained, written in the minutes of the Board meeting. It is to bring attention to the Lions Club membership drive with information in the cache description. And also have a new cache for finding!

 

Just wanted to be sure this is proper, the first stage is outside the 529 foot circle, the second inside the circle by about 20 feet. And there is no requirement by a finder to do anything but sign the log.

[+Max and 99]

11 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

I have a cache in the works, I have the number assigned and a description written. Awaiting permission from the establishment.

 

What I at first  intended was to place a tricky cache on a metal box, but I found that that spot conflicted with another cache by about 2O feet! So Io moved it to a good spot, a spot I had placed a cache before - maybe 2 feet difference at the most.

 

But then I got to thinking, why not make it a multi- with the first stage at the new intended spot, and the second stage at the spot where I originally planned it. 

 

The cache s now considered is to be placed on an eyeglass collection box placed by our Lion Club, permission from the club had been obtained, written in the minutes of the Board meeting. It is to bring attention to the Lions Club membership drive with information in the cache description. And also have a new cache for finding!

 

Just wanted to be sure this is proper, the first stage is outside the 529 foot circle, the second inside the circle by about 20 feet. And there is no requirement by a finder to do anything but sign the log.

If any of your physical stages are within 528 ft of another cache's physical stages then it won't work. 

[+Jayeffel]

Shucks, I read the multi cache guidelines and misinterpreted the part where is states the posted coordinates are for the first stage, and somehow read that as the first stage must meet the distance and not necessarily the second. Sometime we read what we want to see!

[+Max and 99]

If only there was a way to make the Lions' box a virtual stage for a multicache.

[+Jayeffel]

 Could that be done under one cache number? Or would it need to be two separate caches? I don't think I have a virtual cache credit.

 

Best keep things simple, keep the cache at proper limits and refer to the eyeglass container for use  in the description with no log of container of any type at the box, nothing really related to the cache itself there.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Jayeffel

[+Mermaid.Man]

1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

It is to bring attention to the Lions Club membership drive with information in the cache description.

You might have trouble getting this approved by the reviewer.  It sounds like a "cache with an agenda" (to me anyway).

[+Max and 99]

10 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

 Could that be done under one cache number? Or would it need to be two separate caches? I don't think I have a virtual cache credit.

 

Best keep things simple, keep the cache at proper limits and refer to the eyeglass container for use  in the description with no log of container of any type at the box, nothing really related to the cache itself there.

What I meant was the first stage at the eyeglass collection bin is virtual and they answer a question to get the final coordinates. 

[+Jayeffel]

Indeed to be a regular cache with info about Lions Clubs, no action other than signing the log is required. I mentioned a drive, but there really is no membership drive involved

[+Jayeffel]

ok, but I have no virtual credit, used one maybe last year. Guess the traditional cache at the new spot is the best way to go.

[+Max and 99]

5 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

ok, but I have no virtual credit, used one maybe last year. Guess the traditional cache at the new spot is the best way to go.

You don't need a virtual credit. It is a super simple two-step multicache that I am explaining: the first stage is virtual means there's no physical container at the eyeglass collection bin. They get clues from the bin to figure out where the final coordinates are. So when you set up the multi-page that first stage is virtual and the final stage is physical. 

Edited August 16, 2023 by Max and 99

[+Jayeffel]

ok

 

[+Max and 99]

Virtual stages (no physical object) don't need to be 528 ft from physical stages. 

[+Jayeffel]

17 hours ago, Mermaid.Man said:

You might have trouble getting this approved by the reviewer.  It sounds like a "cache with an agenda" (to me anyway).

The cache is not intended to be strictly a Lion Membership info vehicle. The cache would stand alone with info only on Lions since it was intended to be placed on a Lions owned container.  I apparently cannot  place the cache as intended due to cache spacing, and to keep it as simple will  probably make it a traditional cache with some reference to Lions with no action by the finder other than logging.

 

Just need to get the cache holder assembled and placed. 

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Jay - A couple of points:

• Mermaid.Man's point about the potential for this to be considered an 'agenda cache' is valid. Your counterpoint that you wouldn't be requiring finders to join or do anything other than sign the log is wrong. If that's your initial virtual stage, you'd be requiring your finders to go to an installation created and owned by a charitable organization and read their stuff (to get info for the next stage). Most likely a non-starter. If it's your final stage, same problem, PLUS, even if it were to be accepted by a Reviewer you'd need explicit permission from the Lion's Club for people to come mess with their display without dropping old eyeglasses or whatever you're normally supposed to do there.

• You say your final will be about 20 feet outside of the 528 foot exclusion zone of another cache. Be careful with that; you're well within the margin of error for civilian-grade GPS devices. Did you grab those coords with your phone, a GPS or a map image? All it takes is for your device, whatever it was to be off in one direction and the Reviewer's calculation could cause him or her to bark at you.

 

You said that you were going to get the 'cache holder assembled and placed.' Either of the two factors I mentioned would give me pause, and I encourage you to check with your local Reviewer on both before you do anything.

 

It just could be that both the spirit and reasons for the 528' limitation apply in this case.

[+Jayeffel]

2 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Jay - A couple of points:

• Mermaid.Man's point about the potential for this to be considered an 'agenda cache' is valid. Your counterpoint that you wouldn't be requiring finders to join or do anything other than sign the log is wrong. If that's your initial virtual stage, you'd be requiring your finders to go to an installation created and owned by a charitable organization and read their stuff (to get info for the next stage). Most likely a non-starter. If it's your final stage, same problem, PLUS, even if it were to be accepted by a Reviewer you'd need explicit permission from the Lion's Club for people to come mess with their display without dropping old eyeglasses or whatever you're normally supposed to do there.

• You say your final will be about 20 feet outside of the 528 foot exclusion zone of another cache. Be careful with that; you're well within the margin of error for civilian-grade GPS devices. Did you grab those coords with your phone, a GPS or a map image? All it takes is for your device, whatever it was to be off in one direction and the Reviewer's calculation could cause him or her to bark at you.

 

You said that you were going to get the 'cache holder assembled and placed.' Either of the two factors I mentioned would give me pause, and I encourage you to check with your local Reviewer on both before you do anything.

 

It just could be that both the spirit and reasons for the 528' limitation apply in this case.

1)There is nothing at the collection box to read other than decals to lead to the final. And as mentioned somewhere I do have permission from the club, my club. Just need to get permission from the library - should be easy since I had one there before. 

 

2) Where I first intended it is within the 528 foot limit, but the coordinates at the new spot now are ok, got with my iPhone, plotted in the geocache cache planning map as ok. 

 

3) The cache pieces need to be put together , which should take a few minutes. I wanted to be sure where I am placing it first. I am not planning more than a traditionall cache now, no need to make it more difficult for anyone.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Jayeffel

[+TyroneShoelaces]

3 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

"with some reference to Lions"

 

Any reference at all to the Lions organization makes it an "agenda cache" and will keep it from being published.

 

[+TeamRabbitRun]

1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

1)There is nothing at the collection box to read other than decals to lead to the final. And as mentioned somewhere I do have permission from the club, my club. Just need to get permission from the library - should be easy since I had one there before. 

 

2) Where I first intended it is within the 528 foot limit, but the coordinates at the new spot now are ok, got with my iPhone, plotted in the geocache cache planning map as ok. 

 

3) The cache pieces need to be put together , which should take a few minutes. I wanted to be sure where I am placing it first. I am nit pomading ion more than t trade atonal cache now, no need to make it more difficult for anyone.

 

Jayeffel - It was just a heads-up on these two issues and a suggestion that a Reviewer check your plans first because of them. I really hope you get it worked out.

 

And, of course, I love auto-correct, too.

...Bill

[+Jayeffel]

I never ran across the term Agenda Cache before, and as most geocachers have probably encountered some caches that do fit that.

 

So apparently my initial plan to place cache at the eyeglass collection box is not workable due to cache spacing as well as intended description. 

 

If our club desired to place a series of series of caches about the only thing that would then work might be include Lions Club in the name of the cache. I know it could be - and then would be -  exploited if a description were more business or organization oriented than strictly caching. It would be a nice way to inform people of the Lions Club but I guess we need to do so otherwise. 

 

Thanks all for pointing that restriction out to me.

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

I never ran across the term Agenda Cache before

It's part of the guidelines, specifically, the first paragraph of the "Cache page content" section:

 

Quote

No agendas
Cache pages perceived to promote an agenda or highlight a cause will not be published. Geocaching is a fun, family-friendly game, not a platform for promoting a cause. Agendas are often religious, political, social, or charitable, but aren't limited to these. Also, cache pages cannot require or encourage players to place more caches.

 

[+fuzziebear3]

You could probably do it very subtly, like name your cache "Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my" or something.   But the page cannot go on to extol the virtues of the Lions club.

 

You could have the virtual stage be to gather some information from the Lions box that is at those coordinates.  It should be information that already exists there, not something you are adding.

 

The final stage (where you are adding a container) needs to be more than 528' from any other physical stages of another cache.

 

So by the geocacher being there and getting the numbers, then they will kinda get some information indirectly, but the cache itself does not have an agenda.

 

 

[+Jayeffel]

On 8/18/2023 at 8:42 AM, fuzziebear3 said:

You could probably do it very subtly, like name your cache "Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my" or something.   But the page cannot go on to extol the virtues of the Lions club.

 

You could have the virtual stage be to gather some information from the Lions box that is at those coordinates.  It should be information that already exists there, not something you are adding.

 

The final stage (where you are adding a container) needs to be more than 528' from any other physical stages of another cache.

 

So by the geocacher being there and getting the numbers, then they will kinda get some information indirectly, but the cache itself does not have an agenda.

 

That would work well with what I intended, but there is really nothing on the collection box other than Lion Club International Decals.  I asked a previous Reviewer for advice and he gave basically the same answer, am going to verify the coordinates again for both stages and maybe he can figure a path.

 

Too bad there is not away to use caches to mention worthwhile action or groups, even with no action required other then reading the description and then signing the log, but I guess this would abused as many other parts of geocaching are.. The name I have at present mentions Lions, not Lions Club.

[+Jayeffel]

I think I have a way figured out now. Virtual then final stage. Have a way to get the information deciphered  and used to get from 1 to 2.