Geocaching in India

[+Rag_De]

I will travel to India soon and thought about preparing a few nice caches to entertain me during my visit....

But... where are the caches?

Unbelievable!

Why don't you like this nice hobby? Geocaching is fun!

 

Seriously: does anyone know of a reason why geocaching is not so common in India? For instance in Telangana, there is only one single active cache (GC6CX04)!

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Rag_De

[+Kingpirux]

Main problem are foreign reviewers, like for example one cache had a very hard to open lit, but the cache is there and all fun and happy comments, BUT it was DISSABLED because the lit was hard to open, not a warning, not a maintenance request, instant disable by T Robot. so that kills the game in a young country that is starting to learn how to play for a simple thing like that.

 

Well there are actually a lot of caches in india, you have to considere the dimensions of india, it is a huge country so the distances are not easy to digest by foreign reviewers who think that 200 km is far, is not, im from argentina and had the same issues when starting, the same for brazil, and any huge country, USA may be huge but you have local reviewers PER STATE, we have one for the entire country that says that you cant be further than 200km from your home and thats easy my way to work...

Also india overpopulation makes it really hard to hide caches on cities and since there is no good reviewer on India you got to deal with problems for publication of new caches.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Kingpirux

[RuideAlmeida]

On 7/31/2023 at 4:20 PM, Rag_De said:

Seriously: does anyone know of a reason why geocaching is not so common in India?

 

When you have so many other things in your life to prioritize... like daily struggles to work, eat and sleep for the vast majority of the population?...

A common trend also on the southern hemisphere, unfortunately.

Edited December 18, 2023 by RuideAlmeida

[Keystone]

10 hours ago, Kingpirux said:

Main problem are foreign reviewers, like for example one cache had a very hard to open lit, but the cache is there and all fun and happy comments, BUT it was DISSABLED because the lit was hard to open, not a warning, not a maintenance request, instant disable by T Robot. so that kills the game in a young country that is starting to learn how to play for a simple thing like that.

 

Well there are actually a lot of caches in india, you have to considere the dimensions of india, it is a huge country so the distances are not easy to digest by foreign reviewers who think that 200 km is far, is not, im from argentina and had the same issues when starting, the same for brazil, and any huge country, USA may be huge but you have local reviewers PER STATE, we have one for the entire country that says that you cant be further than 200km from your home and thats easy my way to work...

Also india overpopulation makes it really hard to hide caches on cities and since there is no good reviewer on India you got to deal with problems for publication of new caches.

 

Congratulations for using your very first forum post to criticize the competence and intelligence of Community Volunteer Reviewers such as Crow T Robot, who has volunteered their time for more than 20 years.  In a given month, Crow T Robot probably handles more "long distance cache placements," such as GCAEVWQ, than most Reviewers see in a full year.  It's their specialty, and Crow T Robot is very good at it.  The note on GCAEVWQ will test the legitimacy of the long-distance maintenance plan offered by the CO prior to publication.

 

If more caches are hidden by local geocachers, then eventually there will be sufficient volume to justify bringing on a local Reviewer.  Meanwhile, someone has to handle the occasional submissions from these low-volume countries.  The problem isn't the lack of local reviewers, it's the lack of cache placements.

[+Kingpirux]

im travelling india and playing geocache two months already, and talking to people in india they all had similar issues, there are cases of people who just surrendered to play and they only keep 1 cache inside their homes and keeping the others around alive. They told me about trying to make events and the events canceled just because the reviewer thinks that indian people look dangerous, i dont think that was Crow T Robot, but im so sorry to sound aggressive to the volunteer reviewers, is hard to hear about cultural discrimination.

 

Then the problem is not Crow T Robot strict action or some times overreacting like the case of the cache existing but disabled because a FOUND IT LOG mentioned the hard to open lit, but the lack of interest from geocaching headquarters? 

If the problem is we need more volunteers then i will start to see what is needed to become one and help on this underdeveloped countries that needs a human hand, not a robotic one.

[+Kingpirux]

20 hours ago, RuideAlmeida said:

 

When you have so many other things in your life to prioritize... like daily struggles to work, eat and sleep for the vast majority of the population?...

A common trend also on the southern hemisphere, unfortunately.

oh my god this is an example of cultural discrimination, they are happy people, they have other types of games, in india they play cricket for 15 hours and you think their problem is time? 

when i say underdeveloped im talking about geocaching, its a different culture, completly different, they have so many holy grounds and is pretty common people leaving pots and boxes on trees like gifts to the gods, think about a foraigner player opening those boxes just because a game told them that one of the boxes is a geocache, is not nice, you cant be criptic here in things like that, you must be precise as possible and tell the instructions like take your shoes out.

 

Also here they are not big travelers, because they are quite bonded to their families, so games like this are not that interesting. BUT THERE ARE PLAYERS there is possibilities and a huge country that can join, but with people having this weird saxon yanki vision about them will be hard... very hard.

 

the same for latin america, please dont say this again.

[RuideAlmeida]

2 hours ago, Kingpirux said:

when i say underdeveloped im talking about geocaching, its a different culture, completly different, they have so many holy grounds and is pretty common people leaving pots and boxes on trees like gifts to the gods, think about a foraigner player opening those boxes just because a game told them that one of the boxes is a geocache, is not nice, you cant be criptic here in things like that, you must be precise as possible and tell the instructions like take your shoes out.

 

Also here they are not big travelers, because they are quite bonded to their families, so games like this are not that interesting.

 

Bravo!

Now you gave an interesting answer to the topic. A little late though.

[+hzoi]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:20 AM, Kingpirux said:

oh my god this is an example of cultural discrimination

...

the same for latin america, please dont say this again.

 

This is one of those times where it helps to check on who you're replying to when you make a comment like this.

 

If you had, you might see that @RuideAlmeida lives in Manaus, and perhaps they might not need you to lecture them about the culture in Latin America.

 

Apart from that...

 

On 12/19/2023 at 3:07 AM, Kingpirux said:

Then the problem is not Crow T Robot strict action or some times overreacting like the case of the cache existing but disabled because a FOUND IT LOG mentioned the hard to open lit, but the lack of interest from geocaching headquarters? 

If the problem is we need more volunteers then i will start to see what is needed to become one and help on this underdeveloped countries that needs a human hand, not a robotic one.

 

Good luck with that attitude.

 

You may find that accusing Groundspeak and volunteer reviewers of doing a poor job, without knowing all the facts, is not exactly the path to becoming a Groundspeak volunteer.

 

Also, it's interesting to see that you believe two months in India has made you an expert on all things India, such that you think you can be a volunteer reviewer there. This would make YOU one of those problematic foreign reviewers you complain about...

Edited December 21, 2023 by geoawareUSA9

[+wimseyguy]

11 hours ago, Kingpirux said:

Then the problem is not Crow T Robot strict action or some times overreacting like the case of the cache existing but disabled because a FOUND IT LOG mentioned the hard to open lit, but the lack of interest from geocaching headquarters? 

If the problem is we need more volunteers then i will start to see what is needed to become one and help on this underdeveloped countries that needs a human hand, not a robotic one.

 

You do realize that Crow T Robot is the nickname that a human has chosen for their volunteer user name? I have net him several times and he is far from robotic even if he does have an unusual sense of humor much like his namesake on TV.

[Keystone]

12 hours ago, Kingpirux said:

They told me about trying to make events and the events canceled just because the reviewer thinks that indian people look dangerous, i dont think that was Crow T Robot, but im so sorry to sound aggressive to the volunteer reviewers, is hard to hear about cultural discrimination.

 

Accusations of cultural insensitivity or worse are a very serious matter, so I did some further investigation by studying all event caches that have ever been submitted in India, whether or not they were published.  I closely examined the reasons stated by the Reviewer for any event cache that was not published.  Here is what I found:

 

• Since 2000, there have been 188 event cache pages created with India selected as the event location.
• Four event cache submissions, all from vacationing/traveling geocachers, are currently pending initial review for event dates in 2024.
• One event was denied because it was submitted on less than the required 14 days' advance notice. The Reviewer's note dealt solely with that guideline issue.
• Four events submitted by vacationing geocachers were denied because they were located inside an airport.  The Reviewer's note dealt solely with the guideline requiring that events be open for anyone to attend.
• One event, submitted by a local geocacher, was sent back for revisions because it was described as more of an organized cache hunt instead of a social gathering.  The host chose to self-archive their event instead of making the necessary edits.  The Reviewer's note dealt solely with the "organized cache hunt" guideline issue.
• A number of events were self-archived by the geocacher who created the cache page, without ever submitting for review or interacting with the Reviewer.  Some published events were canceled by the host for reasons such as changes in travel plans or the lack of "will attend" logs, with no evidence that Reviewer comments led to the decision to cancel.
• Approximately 50 events, all submitted by vacationing/traveling geocachers, were archived by a Reviewer using a "form letter" note reading substantially as follows:  "Thank you for your submission. We have seen an increased number of events submitted by players during holiday trips and many of them are not attended by anyone other than the event host and their traveling companions. This is especially true for events in remote locations and does not fulfill the social aspect of a geocaching event. To that end, we are trying to reduce the number of these types of events. There is no local player community in this location and recent events in this location have not been attended by anyone other than the event host. It is unlikely that anyone will attend this event except you and your travel companions. I am declining to publish this event listing for those reasons. Thank you."    I see nothing culturally insensitive in this form note, either.
• All of the other event cache submissions were published.  The vast majority of these were attended by just the visiting organizer and no more than a handful of other visiting tourists, which led to the approach described just above, which Reviewers began using in 2018 at the direction of Geocaching HQ.

Based on my study of every event cache page for India, I did not uncover any examples where the Reviewer went beyond using our standard form notes, and added comments about Indian people or culture.  I must ask you, therefore, to point me to specific examples of the behavior which you allege to have occurred.  You can provide the GC Codes if you don't want to provide the geocaching account names of the Indian geocachers you spoke with.  Reviewers are able to see unpublished cache pages.  I look forward to your prompt reply with supporting facts.

[RuideAlmeida]

2 hours ago, hzoi said:

If you had, you might see that @RuideAlmeida lives in Manaus, and perhaps they might not need you to lecture them about the culture in Latin America.

 

Obrigado! 

[+Rag_De]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:49 PM, Keystone said:

 

(....)

• Approximately 50 events, all submitted by vacationing/traveling geocachers, were archived by a Reviewer using a "form letter" note reading substantially as follows:  "Thank you for your submission. We have seen an increased number of events submitted by players during holiday trips and many of them are not attended by anyone other than the event host and their traveling companions. This is especially true for events in remote locations and does not fulfill the social aspect of a geocaching event. To that end, we are trying to reduce the number of these types of events. There is no local player community in this location and recent events in this location have not been attended by anyone other than the event host. It is unlikely that anyone will attend this event except you and your travel companions. I am declining to publish this event listing for those reasons. Thank you."    I see nothing culturally insensitive in this form note, either.
• All of the other event cache submissions were published.  The vast majority of these were attended by just the visiting organizer and no more than a handful of other visiting tourists, which led to the approach described just above, which Reviewers began using in 2018 at the direction of Geocaching HQ.

(...)

 

Maybe becoming a bit of topic, but what exactly is the reasoning behind this policy? What is wrong with trying to setup an event, that has little chances for attendees? And why are such policies "directed by the Headquarter", and not reflected in updated Geocaching rules?

I think, it does no harm to anybody, if Geocachers organise events and nobody turns up. So why not publishing them?

[RuideAlmeida]

56 minutes ago, Rag_De said:

So why not publishing them?

 

One word that pops in my mind is "self-serving"... not at all in the game's spirit IMHO.

[+Rag_De]

11 hours ago, RuideAlmeida said:

 

One word that pops in my mind is "self-serving"... not at all in the game's spirit IMHO.

 

Thanks for the reply. But what is the logics behind that? Why do you think this is self-serving?

[RuideAlmeida]

7 hours ago, Rag_De said:

Why do you think this is self-serving?

 

If we place an Event in a region where we already know that the geocaching activity is non-existing (thus the absence of any Traditional, by instance)... we are placing the Event for ourselves, not the community. When placing another type of cache (that the owner can't Find), the opposite happens.

[+Rag_De]

On 12/24/2023 at 4:24 PM, RuideAlmeida said:

 

If we place an Event in a region where we already know that the geocaching activity is non-existing (thus the absence of any Traditional, by instance)... we are placing the Event for ourselves, not the community.(...)

 

Sorry, but this is simply wrong.

You imply other peoples intentions. Why so negative? If I place an event in a region with no active geocaching community, I take the chance, that some travellers are around at about the same time as me, for example. Yes, low chances. But implying that such an event is only done for selfish reasons is quite mean, I think.

[Keystone]

Each year, Signal the Frog gives the Moderating Team a Christmas gift.  We're allowed to choose one forum thread to close  because the site volunteers are being criticized unfairly.  For 2023, I've chosen this one!  Thanks, Signal, and Merry Christmas to you and all good geocachers around the world.