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gm100guy

By gm100guy
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DirtRunner

+DirtRunner

Posted
Posted

I don’t know man,

 

It kind of read to me like just do virtuals because there is already legislation about leaving anything behind in a park.

 

Maybe we should call this Mulooney guy and ask his take on things, I would hate to loose all of our cache spots due to a government letter stating Virtuals are the way to go...

 

But, overall, they could have been a lot worse and belligerent about the whole thing, so I am encouraged.

 

DirtRunner.

 

Your not first...But you could be next.

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Decodoppler

+Decodoppler

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by DirtRunner:

I don’t know man,

 

It kind of read to me like just do virtuals because there is already legislation about leaving anything behind in a park.

 

Maybe we should call this Mulooney guy and ask his take on things, I would hate to loose all of our cache spots due to a government letter stating Virtuals are the way to go...

 

But, overall, they could have been a lot worse and belligerent about the whole thing, so I am encouraged.

 

DirtRunner.

 

Your not first...But you could be next.

 

It does say there is currently no legislation regarding geocaching and that that may have to change but it does not say that virtuals are the only think recommended... guess one can read that as half-full or half-MT. However, agree that some proactive tactic may be called for... like getting permission and setting a president... does that work... I know nothing about the law or dealing with government.

 

You've seen my and DR's opinions. What do you think Brad?

 

Take care

 

DD icon_razz.gif

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gm100guy

gm100guy

Posted
  • Author
Posted

After reading the letter and doing it twice like Santa does, it seems to me you can not leave anything in a park. They are are saying the only cache that we can have is a virtual.

 

I must agree with the comment it seems they have checked out geocaching and seem to know what they are talking about.

 

Do you think we should contact the gentleman metion in the letter and get some feed back from him?

 

icon_confused.gif

 

gm100guy

http://members.rogers.com/gm100guy/cachepage.htm

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chris-mouse

+chris-mouse

Posted
Posted

From my reading of the letter, it appears to me a that you would be permitted to leave an object in the park, if, and only if, it's authorised. That would seem to imply that a geocache would be acceptable if permission was obtained from the park management before the cache was placed.

 

There are a couple of caches in one park that have been logged by the park wardens, so presumably they don't have any objection to them.

 

Perhaps it would be an idea to set a precedent by contacting the park supervisors in a couple of parks and getting permission to place geocaches. If we could work with the staff to place a cache in a safe area where they can see the effects geocaching would have on the location, they might be willing to permit others as well.

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mrcpu

+mrcpu

Posted
Posted

I think that it is time for us to create a "users group" and contact the guy in the letter to start a dialogue. I'd like to setup some sort of official pathway and policies for this. What I'm afraid of is getting into a situation where Ranger Rick doesn't mind you geocaching on "his" land but Ranger Joe is against it and Ranger Sue has never heard of it.

 

I'm all for the idea of creating a park usage fee where you pay a couple of bucks (no more then $5) to get a permit to plant a cache. In your application you have to state where you plan to put it (scope it out first) and then you put a photocopy of the permit in the log book.

 

The $5 would go towards the additional cost of having park officials deal with a geocacher who wants to plant a cache.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

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Decodoppler

+Decodoppler

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by yorelken:

How could you say you represent anybody? Less than half-a-dozen have bothered to post to this thread. The more dust you raise the more the government will take an interest. Leave it.

 

While part of me agrees that the simplest thing to do is nothing, most of me says that contacting the "Civil Servants" is the best way to go... deja vu Bill 13 here... anyhow, I volunteer GMGuy to do it since he started the corresponence... if he wants to opt out, I will do it.

 

DD

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DirtRunner

+DirtRunner

Posted
Posted

I respect and feel either Deco or GM would do a fine job representing our concerns to the Bureaucracy.

 

Also, I do not feel Deco was trying to speak for anyone, but at the time of his posting, nobody else was stepping forward.

 

As John Lee would say

"You let that boy boogie"

DirtRunner.

 

Your not first...But you could be next.

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mrcpu

+mrcpu

Posted
Posted

Firstly, I'm not married the $5 fee idea. I just figure it would be attractive to the parks people. That's how they think isn't it? That's how government types think... so why not use it as a way to ensure our success. Otherwise we end up being banned outright from all provincial parks!!!

 

As for the "who voted you to talk for us" comments... I do think we need to form a users group for Ontario. This should be one of the main topics IF the meeting that is being discussed in the other thread every takes place.

 

As for the morality of a few people making decicisons that effect the whole, this is unfortunatly how things end up anyway you look at it. What we need to do is promote a meeting and online discussion where a small council is created to do the bulk of the work. A website dedicated to an Ontario Geocachers Society would be a neat idea.

 

Cheers,

 

Rob

Mobile Cache Command

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Decodoppler

+Decodoppler

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by yorelken:

Who elected you to speak for us?

 

Lighten up. Believe me, I don't volunteer lightly and I am reluctant to speak for anyone whose motives and personal philosophies and sensibilities I don't know. And frankly I don't see myself as representative of this group... I have never attended a gathering and cache alone... but I am aware of a potential problem and my experinece in life and business is that when you see something or someone that might **** in your cornflakes, you do something about it rather than turning your back and walking away. You can go caching and forget about it. I see a potential threat and want to find out whether we can do something to prevent it.

 

FYI, I run a software company and have dealt with government bull**** -- as a contractor and supplier -- for more than a decade.

 

Now, you can carry on being negative and you can dis me as much as you like -- I have thick skin -- but with our without your input this ball was set in motion by GM100Guy... who incidently seems to contribute a lot to your enjoyment by helping to run this show... I'm just putting my name in the hat to take some of the load off of his shoulders.

 

DD icon_razz.gif

 

"Either that wallpaper goes or I do!"

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yorelken

+yorelken

Posted
Posted

I apologize, but all this for one little question? I don't see how this is dissing. The reason I'm in this pastime/sport or whatever, is precisely because it is so unhampered by too many rules and user fees. I have seen too many fun things become way too serious. After all, we are mostly just going out in the woods and looking for a piece of tupperware. Let's not get too hung up on it. Sorry I offended.

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DirtRunner

+DirtRunner

Posted
Posted

It’s obvious we need to present a united presence to the government, otherwise it might appear that the one talking for us has no ability to enforce what gets agreed on.

 

Looks like now, more than ever, a meeting is in order so that we can at least talk over a strategy. Hey, maybe was start a “Royal Geocaching Society of Ontario” club; we can ever have a secret handshake and passwords! At first we will start with Geocaching and later, as our influence and power grows, we’ll start challenging the Masons for world domination! HA!That’ll teach them for introducing the Metric system!

 

No, but seriously, a group representation would be a very good thing to have going into this. Hey, I’ll help with the web site if we can agree to anything and promise to stick to it for at least 12 months. We need to get together so that we can talk about this.

 

Going it alone means assured failure.

DirtRunner.

 

Your not first...But you could be next.

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Decodoppler

+Decodoppler

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by DirtRunner:

It’s obvious we need to present a united presence to the government, otherwise it might appear that the one talking for us has no ability to enforce what gets agreed on.

 

Looks like now, more than ever, a meeting is in order so that we can at least talk over a strategy. Hey, maybe was start a “Royal Geocaching Society of Ontario” club.

 

DR you always come up with the good ideas -- for caches as well icon_biggrin.gif -- let's do it... certainly you and I can and should meet sometime since we live reasonably close and have a related issue outstanding -- the trip west for that meeting.

 

I will be passing through Brooklin on Sunday and possibly this evening. I will drop you a private email with a mobile number... perhaps at least we can put a face to our handles... we've exchanged enough emails!

 

As for this issue... I think we're agreed that Queen's Park is unlikely to give Geocaching a carte blanche for stashing within park boundries. But we could present them with information about the current geocaching guidelines and suggest that they look those over and seem what issues they might have. The goal being to get some acceptance that caching falls within the "general use" definition in the provincial parks mandated purpose.

 

For those who have been following the sister thread to this in the US forums, security issues are becoming very real with regards to "strange objects stuffed in decayed trees."

 

GM Guy... what information did you already send to Queens Park.

 

DD

 

"I can resist anything but temptation..."

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gm100guy

gm100guy

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I have done nothing yet as I was waiting to see what others think before I sent a reply.

 

I will be busy for the next 2 weeks and will have to look at doing something in the new year.

 

I was hoping we could get together and present a united front on this and come up with a reply that reflects more then 1 persons thoughts.

 

As I stated before in the other thread the only reason I wrote my letter to the minister was to ask who the jmp was and if he was speaking as a government employee.

 

Now that we have a response I guess something will need to be done. I did a google search and found a email for the person they mentioned to contact, but did not write him yet.

 

As for the other remarks going on in the thread I have big shoulders and will let it pass with no comment. But when we have trouble like it seems in some states about geocaching in parks, We cannot plead ignorance now......

 

icon_razz.gif

 

gm100guy

http://members.rogers.com/gm100guy/cachepage.htm

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Cache Canucks

Cache Canucks

Posted
Posted

I don't know why, but the interest in this - if posted comments are of any indication - seems to be limited to those of us in the Golden Horseshoe area (...please, no wise cracks about that poor 'Golden Horseshoe' thread). Judging by some other threads, there appears to be a healthy gaggle of GeoCachers in the Ottawa area (for example) for whom this would be just as much of a concern ...this discussion is, after all, about Ontario MNR policy (both existing and potential). Does anyone from elsewhere in Ontario want to weigh in on this with their $0.02...?

 

On a related note, I'm wondering if the idea of an 'Ontario' GeoCaching grip-n-grin mightn't be a greater success if we tried to think 'Provincially' (ie: perhaps select a venue that, geographically, would prove to be more accessible for a greater number of interested Ontarians ...Kingston perhaps?).

 

ontario1.gif

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TheGertridgeExplorers

+TheGertridgeExplorers

Posted
Posted

I have received permission from my local conservation area to place a cache. I forwarded my correspondance on to another conservation area when cachers asked to place a cache in their area. The CA staff I have talked to seem interested in geocaching. My contact here in Peterborough sees it as an activity similar to birdwatching or hiking. The person who contacted me from the other conservation area was very excited about an activity with the potential to draw people to overlooked recreation areas.

Anyone I have talked to from the MNR, including managers, always see it as a positive activity. Don't forget, Parks Ontario wants to draw people to its parks. An activity that brings people through the gates year-round should be looked at as a good thing.

I think the points that jmp made in the original thread are reasonable requests. The most important point is don't be afraid to ask for permission. The land managers seem to be more comfortable with geocaching if a staff member knows where the cache is and can assure their supervisors that our cache placement is not harmful to park visitors or the park itself.

If you would like a copy of my e-mail correspondance with my local CA and my other CA contact, let me know, and I will forward it on to you.

 

- Donna G

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DirtRunner

+DirtRunner

Posted
Posted

quote:
Originally posted by DonnaG:

If you would like a copy of my e-mail correspondance with my local CA and my other CA contact, let me know, and I will forward it on to you.

 

- Donna G

 

I would love to see what you have gotten posted on this thread so that everyone can take a gander.

 

DirtRunner.

 

Your not first...But you could be next.

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TheGertridgeExplorers

+TheGertridgeExplorers

Posted
Posted

This is the e-mail exchange between Otonabee Conservation Authority & myself (with some personal info omitted). Missing is a very productive phone meeting.

 

Greetings,

 

This confirms that you now have permission to place the cache at Selwyn Conservation Area. Please call out to the park at 652-8831 and set up an appointment with Mr. Peter Loucks, Park Supervisor. I have briefed Mr. Loucks on the program and he will be happy to assist you in finding a suitable location. Please keep me informed over the next six months regarding your thoughts on the success of this new activity at Selwyn Conservation Area. Otonabee Conservation will complete its own monitoring and assessment at the same time. Good Luck.

 

Yours in conservation,

 

John J. Williams

Project Manager

Otonabee Conservation

(705) 745-5791 ext.216

jwilliams@otonabee.com

----- Original Message -----

 

To: John Williams

Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 12:35 PM

Subject: Re: Miller Creek Conservation Area Permission for Recreational Use

 

John,

 

Thank you for your willingness to give this activity a place in the Conservation Authority. I have visited Selwyn and think there are several suitable spots for a cache along the short amount of trail I walked. The most obvious spot for a cache is in a pile of boulders not far to the north of the beach area. One boulder actually looks like a table, which would be a very good hint for seekers having trouble finding it. I did not look to see if there was any poison ivy that people could get into if they crawled over or around these boulders.

If you are familiar with the area, and this sounds like a suitable spot, let me know. If you and/or Mr Loucks wish to be present when the cache is placed let me know when a good time for you would be. Most evenings and weekends are fairly open for my family. It would be nice to place it before the Aug long weekend to possibly entice some of the Toronto vactioners heading north to take a break at Selwyn.

The cache will not be placed until I get the final OK from you.

 

Thanks again,

 

Donna G

----- Original Message -----

From: John Williams

 

Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:18 PM

Subject: Re: Miller Creek Conservation Area Permission for Recreational Use

 

Greetings,

 

Further to your request, realizing there are no agreements in place around the province at this time, your not in the position to enter into a formal agreement and accept all responsibility and considering the low risk impact this activity will have on conservation lands, Otonabee Conservation is willing to incorporate this activity into its own programming and allow the activity to proceed on a 6 month trial basis subject to the following:

 

1. The trial site for the activity will be the Selwyn Conservation Area located on upper Chemong Lake. The park has an area of 72 acres. It has been developed into a day use park but still has a large undisturbed open area (formerly agricultural) and a forested section with a trail.

2. Otonabee Conservation will need you to act as a contact for the trial period while Otonabee Conservation becomes familiar with this activity in order to make decisions on the future compatibility of this activity on conservation lands.

3. Selwyn Conservation Area is staffed and charges admission to visitors from mid June to Labour Day each year. The daily vehicle fee ($7.00) will apply to all visitors wanting to participate in the Geocaching activity at Selwyn during those months when the park is open and staffed. Visitors who pay will also have access to the rest of the park and its facilities that include the best public beach available on Chemong Lake, plus picnic area and vault toilets. Other times of the year the visitors can park at the gate and walk in for free similar to other visitors who use the park during the off season.

4. The single largest threat to public safety that I can think of at this time regarding this activity would be participants not being able to identify poison ivy. It is imperative that the geocache not be placed in or near poison ivy which is a native plant to this area and grows in several areas at Selwyn Conservation Area.

5. The geocache must be kept within the boundaries of Selwyn Conservation Area and not placed on adjacent private lands. The initial placement of the geocache must be approved by the park supervisor, Mr. Peter Loucks and myself.

6. The participants in this activity must be responsible in terms of not damaging property or vegetation and leaving no litter.

 

At the end of six months, Otonabee Conservation will evaluate its experience with this activity.

Could I have your comments on the above. Thank you.

 

Yours in conservation,

 

John J. Williams

Project Manager

Otonabee Conservation

(705) 745-5791 ext.216

jwilliams@otonabee.com .

----- Original Message -----

 

To: John Williams

Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 7:07 PM

Subject: Re: Miller Creek Conservation Area Permission for Recreational Use

 

Hi Again,

 

Further to our phone conversation, I'm afraid that none of the people I have contacted have asked permission to place a geocache. Many think it is a good idea however, and I think if I received permission from the Otonabee Conservation Authority they would go and ask permission for their cache placements. Please let me know what you decide. My family and I are willing to place a cache in any area that you will allow us.

 

Thanks,

 

Donna G

----- Original Message -----

From: John Williams

 

Sent: Monday, June 17, 2002 1:37 PM

Subject: Re: Miller Creek Conservation Area Permission for Recreational Use

 

Greetings,

Further to your request, Otonabee Conservation would be interested in knowing if this activity is taking place anywhere else in the province on conservation authority land ? What type of agreement is in place between the landowner and the user group ? Has the user group agreed to take all responsibility for liability or any costs associated with the proposed activity. Perhaps we should schedule a meeting to further consider the possibilities for this proposed activity on Otonabee Conservation Land. Please feel free to call me at 745-5791.

 

Yours in conservation,

John J. Williams

----- Original Message -----

 

To: jwilliams@otonabee.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 12:14 PM

Subject: Miller Creek Conservation Area Permission for Recreational Use

 

April 2,2002

Otonabee Conservation Authority

Miller Creek Consevation Area

John Williams

Dear Mr. Willliams,

 

I was looking at the Conservation Authority's website and saw your name as Coordinator of Conservation Areas. My purpose in this letter is two-fold. First, I would like to introduce you to an exciting land use activity. Next I seek the approval of the Conservation Authority for a specific use of the Miller Creek Conservation Area for this purpose.

 

The activity I mentioned is called Geocaching. This is a relatively new activity that some have described as “high-tech hide and seek”. The object is simple; an individual hides a container for other participants to find. The “hider” places the latitude and longitude coordinates of the cache on the Internet, and the “seekers” use maps and handheld Global Positioning System (GPS) receivers to find the cache. It is customary for seekers to sign the logbook, if provided, and, if desired, to exchange a trinket for one in the cache.

 

Note that virtually all caches are camouflaged or otherwise hidden from public view. Because of this, other park users generally have no idea that the geocaches are there. This benefits both the participants, (often called “geocachers”) in that it lessens the possibility of caches being vandalized or stolen by uninterested parties, but it also keeps the area around the cache looking natural. The last thing geocachers want is to have a cache that might be interpreted as trash. Generally, geocachers are good stewards of the land. For example, many participate in an activity we call “cache in, trash out”, the purpose of which is to pick up and dispose of trash found on the trails in and around the cache site.

 

As caches are discovered, cache seekers typically log their find on the Internet ( www.geocaching.com ). This allows cache hiders to be notified that someone has found their cache and allows them to monitor the condition of their caches and the surrounding area. The point is to insure both are in appropriate condition for the continued enjoyment of future geocachers. For reference, some caches receive as many as 2-3 visitors a week while some may only receive 1 a month. I would expect the proposed cache to get 1-4 visits per month after the first couple of months based on comparisons to caches with similar characteristics. Obviously, the more frequently a cache is visited, the more closely it must be monitored to insure there are no detrimental affects to the cache, or the surrounding area.

 

Geocaching is a great family activity and for many, it is an excellent excuse to hike and explore an area where one has never been before. One of the most striking things I have noticed about geocachers is the (sometimes newfound) appreciation most all geocachers have for our public lands. As a whole, they understand and appreciate the work involved to provide such public places and sincerely want to work with land use agencies to insure such places continue to be available for future generations. They understand that without the cooperation of agencies such as yours and the public land in your care, they would be unable to participate in this wonderful activity.

 

On this note, I seek your permission to place a geocache within Miller Creek Conservation Area. I wish to work with you to insure the cache is placed in areas that are deemed appropriate for this type of activity. If approved, the container will be a small plastic or metal watertight container (approx. 30cm x 15 cm) and placed at the end of the 1km loop at the edge of the meadow where all of the birdhouses are. If this is an inappropriate spot, or you have a better suggestion for a cache placement, I would appreciate your input. More information on this activity is available at www.geocaching.com . I hope for your permission on this land use, and look forward to hearing from you. Thank you for your consideration.

 

Sincerely,

 

Donna G

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TheGertridgeExplorers

+TheGertridgeExplorers

Posted
Posted

I finally found the name of the Planner who contacted me about getting permission from my local Conservation Authority. Her name is Nadine Partridge from the Lake Simcoe Region Conservation Authority. She was going to pitch geocaching as a positive CA recreational activity to the CA board members. I never heard from her how it went. I may send her an e-mail to see what the response was.

 

- Donna G

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