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Mystery cache bogus far from the actual cache - reporting wrong placement


Hekemon
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1 hour ago, Isonzo Karst said:

The one that is active wouldn't be published today, but having been published, is grandfathered.    

I've seen a number of mystery/puzzle caches that were more than 2 miles from the posted coordinates. Some were published before the 2-mile limit was being enforced. Some were approved as exceptions. All are grandfathered.

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5 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

what's the point of excluding a few mystery caches when the same souvenir and stat trickery can be and is being done

 

Your question is based upon the assumption of defeating "trickery".  The point of removing certain caches is to keep stats and souvenirs correct.

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2 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

 

Your question is based upon the assumption of defeating "trickery".  The point of removing certain caches is to keep stats and souvenirs correct.

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, I'm just genuinely surprised a list like that exists.

 

So ignoring my choice of the word "trickery" and with it any speculation of the motives of COs and cachers, why do grandfathered long distance mystery caches get special treatment "to keep stats and souvenirs correct", while long distance multis/wherigos/letterboxes don't? Or normal-length mysteries that cross a border?

 

I guess multis and multi-like letterboxes are supposed to require visiting the starting coordinates, which would mean you've at least had a friend visit the place you get the souvenir from (teamwork eh). Is that the distinction? But that explain wherigos and normal-length mysteries.

 

Edit. No wait, there is a new-ish long distance multi on the list. It's listed as "Cache in Poland but listed as in Aland Islands (without need to visit there)", even though the multi description specifically tells the cacher to look at an information board on location to solve the multi. I assume there's a photo of that information board somewhere on the internet, but that just fills my head with questions on the criteria for inclusion on this list. Is the actual reason that the multi cannot be solved by visiting the coordinates (as the info is currently missing)?

Edited by mustakorppi
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58 minutes ago, mustakorppi said:

I'm not trying to be snarky or anything, I'm just genuinely surprised a list like that exists.

When location-based Souvenirs came out, people were confused/upset when they got the Souvenir for a place that they had never visited. So an exclusion list was created to prevent people from getting the Souvenir for caches that had moved (grandfathered traveling caches and things like that). Geocachers didn't want Souvenirs for caches like this, so Groundspeak created the list.

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Posted (edited)

This is the trackable that made me look into those caches.:

https://www.geocaching.com/track/map_gm.aspx?ID=6523279

 

The cache owner politely advised me to mind my own business =P

"I would like to ask cacher Hekemon not to write nonsense about a cache whose origin he knows nothing about. This cache was confirmed by Grounspeak and was granted an exception. So please stop this alarming message. Thank you."

 

Apparently rules don't apply to all caches. I just lost all interest to travel bugs.

Edited by Hekemon
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28 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Does look ridiculous. You could though delete the visit to that cache, or did you leave the TB in it?  If you left the TB in it, after it's picked up, you could then delete that log.


When a log is deleted, the “action” remains.  So the distance then exists without the context.  It could create more confusion, and not fix the problem.

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10 hours ago, kunarion said:


When a log is deleted, the “action” remains.  So the distance then exists without the context.  It could create more confusion, and not fix the problem.

I just went and tested this. When I deleted the log of the visit off the TB, the visit disappears off the map and the next log had the expected distance from the previous visit.

Maybe you didn't understand what I meant. I meant the log of the visit of the TB to the cache. (Not the cache visit log.) Well, yes the visit still remains for the TB, but then you delete the log on the TB. That was what I was referring to, the TB, not the cache. I never expected someone to delete their cache find, only the TB visit; ie. go to the TB logs and delete it there.

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59 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I just went and tested this. When I deleted the log of the visit off the TB, the visit disappears off the map and the next log had the expected distance from the previous visit.

Maybe you didn't understand what I meant. I meant the log of the visit of the TB to the cache. (Not the cache visit log.) Well, yes the visit still remains for the TB, but then you delete the log on the TB. That was what I was referring to, the TB, not the cache. I never expected someone to delete their cache find, only the TB visit; ie. go to the TB logs and delete it there.

 

That's wild.  The system is designed to not undo "actions" upon deletion of TB logs:  https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=107&pgid=547

 

I tried to find an exception, and from what I read, it may be that if it's a TB in one's Inventory (or especially, I'm guessing, other actions haven't occurred that would tie the database up in knots), then deletion of a log wipes away that stat.  The Help Center specifically says otherwise, and people have been in these Fora for years asking about the mess created by swiss-cheesing the TB logs... where deleting Trackable logs created a major headache.  So it's cool that it worked, but be careful.  That's an exception.

 

As for puzzle cache waypoints mapped the other side of the world that create map routes with no relation to where the TB physically has been, I can see how owners may find that kind of nutty.  That's happened to least one of my TBs.

 

Edited by kunarion
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15 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

That's wild.  The system is designed to not undo "actions" upon deletion of TB logs:  https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=107&pgid=547

 

I tried to find an exception, and from what I read, it may be that if it's one's own TB (or especially, I'm guessing, other actions haven't occurred that would tie the database up in knots), then deletion of a log wipes away that stat.  The Help Center specifically says otherwise, and people have been in these Fora for years asking how to undo the mess created by swiss-cheesing the TB logs... where deleting Trackable logs created a major headache.  So it's cool that it worked, but don't count on it.

 

As for puzzle cache waypoints mapped the other side of the world that create map routes with no relation to where the TB physically has been, I can see how owners may find that kind of nutty.  That's happened to least one of my TBs.

 

It was someone else's TB I tested this on, not mine. I logged a note on a cache in a place where the TB hadn't been before, so I could clearly see the line on the map. I gave an explanation to the cache CO this was a test and the entry would be deleted. I then checked the TB and the line to that cache was there on the TB map. Then I deleted the log on the cache and the TB visit remained on the cache and the map. Then I went to the logs on the TB and deleted the log of that visit. The line on the map and visit to that cache then disappeared.

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6 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

It was someone else's TB I tested this on, not mine. I logged a note on a cache in a place where the TB hadn't been before, so I could clearly see the line on the map. I gave an explanation to the cache CO this was a test and the entry would be deleted. I then checked the TB and the line to that cache was there on the TB map. Then I deleted the log on the cache and the TB visit remained on the cache and the map. Then I went to the logs on the TB and deleted the log of that visit. The line on the map and visit to that cache then disappeared.

 

After I posted that, it occurred to me that it may apply to any TB in one's Inventory, not only owned TBs.  Maybe it works because it's returning to the same Inventory without any complicated computing necessary.  Maybe it's always been that way, or maybe it's a minor change that the Help Center didn't think worth mentioning. 
 

If it's a major change to the way the system works, and deleting any TB log deletes its "action", there won't be any more posts about mileage not being correct after log deletion (for example).  There will be whole new posts about weirdness happening in owners' TB pages instead, as historical logs and their actions ripple throughout the system. But it will also be tougher for coin thieves to make and creatively delete logs to set up TBs for sale on ebay.

 

Edited by kunarion
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14 hours ago, Hekemon said:

This is the trackable that made me look into those caches.:

https://www.geocaching.com/track/map_gm.aspx?ID=6523279

 

The cache owner politely advised me to mind my own business =P

"I would like to ask cacher Hekemon not to write nonsense about a cache whose origin he knows nothing about. This cache was confirmed by Grounspeak and was granted an exception. So please stop this alarming message. Thank you."

 

Apparently rules don't apply to all caches. I just lost all interest to travel bugs.

I don't know why you had interest in travel bugs in the first place, but the caches you mentioned literally did not break rules, and someone's travel bug stats aren't a COs problem. Not to mention that travel bug's history has "issues" beyond a few legacy mystery caches.

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3 hours ago, kunarion said:

Maybe it's always been that way

That's what I think.

Not to forget there is and always was the action "Recalculate Distance" TB owner could trigger to straighten an eventually messed up log history.

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On 8/23/2021 at 12:30 AM, mustakorppi said:

Curious, what's the point of excluding a few mystery caches when the same souvenir and stat trickery can be and is being done with other cache types?

 

The exclusion list is to avoid people accidentally messing things up.

 

Stopping deliberate shenanigans is like playing whack-a-mole.

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