What should I do with broken puzzles?

[+fizzymagic]

I love to solve puzzles in other places and to dream about be able to actually go and find the caches after Covid.  It's a lot of fun.

 

But I have recently been running into puzzles that are broken or not do-able for a number of reasons.  The most common are:

 

* Puzzles in png images that no longer work because of the transcoding issues with GC's image hosting (grrr)

* Broken links to images, including images hosted at photobucket (boo!) and images hosted by the CO that no longer work

* Puzzles that require downloading and installing software (this is obviously dangerous, and, IMO, should not be grandfathered)

 

Now, I have no desire to be a cache cop, but I have frequently gotten no response from (I hope) polite messages to the COs.

 

So what should I do after I send a message and it is ignored for a week or so?  Options:

 

* mind my own business and let the local community deal with it

* post a Needs Maintenance note, which is probably going to be ignored if the messages I sent were ignored

* post a Needs Archive note, which will certainly get somebody's attention, but may upset the CO

 

So far, I have been sending the messages and then letting it go, but I wonder if that choice is really the best thing for geocaching.  I'd like to hear other opinions.

Edited August 27, 2020 by fizzymagic

[+colleda]

IMO the same steps would apply as in finding caches that are damaged or broken. NM, wait a while and if no action from CO, then NA.

There could be others, like yourself in the same situation who are thinking the same "cache cop" thing.

Take action to get results and if it works you get to complete the puzzles and so do your fellow puzzle solvers.

[+Goldenwattle]

25 minutes ago, fizzymagic said:

I love to solve puzzles in other places and to dream about be able to actually go and find the caches after Covid.  It's a lot of fun.

 

But I have recently been running into puzzles that are broken or not do-able for a number of reasons.  The most common are:

 

* Puzzles in png images that no longer work because of the transcoding issues with GC's image hosting (grrr)

* Broken links to images, including images hosted at photobucket (boo!) and images hosted by the CO that no longer work

* Puzzles that require downloading and installing software (this is obviously dangerous, and, IMO, should not be grandfathered)

 

Now, I have no desire to be a cache cop, but I have frequently gotten no response from (I hope) polite messages to the COs.

 

So what should I do after I send a message and it is ignored for a week or so?  Options:

 

* mind my own business and let the local community deal with it

* post a Needs Maintenance note, which is probably going to be ignored if the messages I sent were ignored

* post a Needs Archive note, which will certainly get somebody's attention, but may upset the CO

 

So far, I have been sending the messages and then letting it go, but I wonder if that choice is really the best thing for geocaching.  I'd like to hear other opinions.

NM. Don't see this as a 'cache cop'. A (needed) NM is assisting the CO to know there is a problem. It's helpful. That's how I see it when someone places a NM on one of my caches. (Although as I maintain my caches, I don't get many.) I don't get upset; I thank them.  It also assists other people to know there is a problem and not to waste their time on this cache, until the CO fixes the problem and places an OM and reassures everyone that the problem is now fixed. Privately messaging the CO, doesn't help other people to know about the problem. A NM is for both the CO's benefit, as well as other people's too.

If they continue to ignore this, place a NA. But I like to give them least a month to respond.

[+barefootjeff]

2 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

 

* mind my own business and let the local community deal with it

* post a Needs Maintenance note, which is probably going to be ignored if the messages I sent were ignored

* post a Needs Archive note, which will certainly get somebody's attention, but may upset the CO

 

 

If it's anything like here, unless it's a brand new cache the local community would have either already done it or decided to ignore it, so it's unlikely to be noticed by them. If I came across something like that where the puzzle is clearly unsolvable I'd just log an NM. That's what I'd want to happen if it was one of my caches. If there's already an unheeded NM about it or you want to follow yours up after a couple of months, then it's time for an NA. There's no point keeping an unsolvable puzzle listing alive.

[+MNTA]

File the NM! Unless a previous NM was already filed then a NA.

 

If the cache has not been touched for awhile my guess is the locals that would have found it have already done so,

[+coachstahly]

My first question is whether or not you're actively looking for these types of puzzles or are planning on caching in an area and looking at puzzles to solve and come across them in this manner.  If you're actively seeking out these types of puzzles, then it might appear that you're trying to be the cache police.  However, the only way anyone would know is if you filed lots of NM and NA logs regularly.  If it's the second option, then I see no issue with you filing NM/NA logs as the puzzles are either unsolvable due to changes within the site or no longer allowed, due to guideline changes.  As a CO, I'd have no issues with someone doing that but I do realize that some COs can have a tendency to take things personally and in the wrong way.  If you contacted them but didn't hear anything back, I would go with the appropriate NM/NA log as needed.

[+frostengel]

Hi,

 

don't forget to take a look when the cache owner was online the last time.

 

If (s)he was online some days/weeks/months ago do as suggested above: "needs mainenance" first. If nothing happens you may log needs archived first or let the community deal with it. I am quite sure someone will do after you made the first step.

If (s)he hasn't been online for let's say one or two years the "needs maintenance" log won't help anything and you might directly log the "needs archived" mentioning the problem and the inactivity of the owner. I'd do the same if the problem is known for a longer time (other logs) and the owner does not respond.

 

The log type shouldn't be "needs archived" but "needs reviewer's attention". Remember that a log "needs archived" does not mean that the cache is instantly archived. The reviewer will deactivate the cache and give the owner time to correct the problems. In the second case that won't happen and the unsolvable mystery cache will disappear - and that is good.

 

I had to do the same decisions often with caches with plenty of DNF logs. I found the cache in 2015 or so and now I notice that there are 12 DNF logs and no owner response - what should I do? I log "needs archived" and ask the reviewer to deactive the cache so that others won't search in vain here any more. That's the main purpose and I exactly say that. Most caches have been deactivated by the reviewer and later been archived. Sometimes the owner reappears and maintains the cache - he did't care for 12 (or more) DNF logs and probably some "needs maintenance" but the "needs archived" wakes him up.

Everything is better than an unsolvable cache - so it's success in each case.

 

And if you say "Dear reviewer, there is a problem .... and the owner doesn't fix it. Can you please deactivate the cache as the owner will not do and the cache isn't solvable at the moment." I do not see why anyone should have a problem with your log. Just don't write "Such a crap, archive, archive!" We say "Der Ton macht die Musik." (the tone makes the music) in Germany and I think that fits even to this hard log type "needs archived".

 

Thank you for your thoughts by the way. Most cachers would ignore these caches as they don't care what happens to others...

 

Best wishes from Germany

Jochen

[+cerberus1]

16 hours ago, fizzymagic said:

...So what should I do after I send a message and it is ignored for a week or so?  Options:

 

* mind my own business and let the local community deal with it

* post a Needs Maintenance note, which is probably going to be ignored if the messages I sent were ignored

* post a Needs Archive note, which will certainly get somebody's attention, but may upset the CO

 

So far, I have been sending the messages and then letting it go, but I wonder if that choice is really the best thing for geocaching.  I'd like to hear other opinions.

 

Now that I'm pretty-much solo (the other 2/3rds did all the online searching stuff, and no longer caches...) I'm noticing that "the community" isn't as helpful as I once thought.  Helpful for finds, but that's about it.      

Puzzles with issues ... most either pass info needed in a PAF, or tell others to skip it entirely.  

"That belongs to so-an'-so's daughter.  We just tell others how it's done at events, so we don't hurt anyone's feelings."     Cute...

I'd at least post a NM.

[+dprovan]

I poke around looking at puzzle caches in places I've never been to and/or might never go to, so I've run into that, too. If I'm convinced the puzzle is truly broken, I don't hesitate to post the NM. My thinking is that there are three cases:

 

One case is a CO that wants to know and will fix the puzzle. In that case, it doesn't really matters how I point out the problem.

 

The second case is a CO that's long gone or doesn't care. That CO won't notice no matter how I say it, but posting an NM gets the cache on its way to its deserved demise.

 

The only problem cases are the COs that, for one reason or another, will get angry about my perfectly legitimate and quite helpful NM. I don't really care how they feel about it. Furthermore, my experience is that this is more of an imagined problem than an actual one. I don't think I've ever gotten any backlash from a CO for an NM I've posted as an outsider, and even if I did, I'd just shrug: I tried to help; the rest is up to the CO. It's not as if I have to go to battle with a CO over fixing a puzzle I'll probably never look at again, anyway.

 

One caveat is that you must be gracious in the face of a response pointing out that what you thought was broken is actually part of the puzzle, even if that response starts with "You idiot".

[+fizzymagic]

7 hours ago, coachstahly said:

My first question is whether or not you're actively looking for these types of puzzles or are planning on caching in an area and looking at puzzles to solve and come across them in this manner. 

 

Believe me, I have a lot better things to do with my time than seek out broken puzzles!   I am only referring to ones that I happen upon.