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BethDaddyKaty

Limits in API - 3 vs 16,000?

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I emailed GS but didnt get a reply - maybe one of the helpful mods on here can help.

 

Does anyone know why there is a limit of 3 full cache descriptions for basic users on the API vs 16,000 (!) for Premium members?

 

I want to do a app for our local school to encourage kids to get out and about by getting badges the more geocaches they find. I know some have expressed scepticism in the past but trust me,  five year olds are highly motivated by badges :)

 

Obviously not every kid is going to sign up Immediately and some, like me, may have a parent with a premium account but as GS doesn't offer a family account its uneconomic to have four premium accounts.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think lower limits are reasonable, but three full cache descriptions a day vs 16,000 makes the app unusable to new users/kids who are the next generation of GCers. Hopefully it's something that can be reviewed, otherwise the only alternative is just to scrape as much information as you want from the GC website as a well known app does, which then means as an app developer you can't offer any incentive for Premium membership.

 

Thanks for any help.

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1 hour ago, BethDaddyKaty said:

GS doesn't offer a family account


This will come as a surprise to all the families with a PM account.  B)

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34 minutes ago, kunarion said:


This will come as a surprise to all the families with a PM account.  B)

Most families around here older kids have their own account.

 

That is how "family" accounts like YouTube, Netflix etc are usually offered, for circa 50% extra you can grant membership to others living at the same address, e.g. partners and kids.

 

Difference for GS is it would be an easy thing to do because they're not licensing content from others.

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What do you suggest API limit wise? 16000 to the family account? That way you'll get complaints that the higher price family account has the same API limit as the normal PM.

You can also use the website and download each cache individually as separate GPX.

 

A family could easily get by with one PM and software like GSAK so a large database of caches is available to everyone and everyone could log via API after finding caches.

Even for a school they could work with one PM to get caches and have the "family" of kids go out and find caches. They would only need a GPS or any app that loads GPX files to get them started.

Even with decent planning you could get by with 3 caches/day unless you want to find more than 21 caches per week (1 cachingday per week may be enough?).

 

Be creative.

 

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8 minutes ago, on4bam said:

You can also use the website and download each cache individually as separate GPX.

 

+1

 

The App allows entering any coordinates seen on the website, millions on display for free (who wants to limit that to 16000? :anitongue:)  Typing coordinates is a great skill for kids to learn, it's necessary for puzzle and multi caches.  

Edited by kunarion
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2 hours ago, BethDaddyKaty said:

Does anyone know why there is a limit of 3 full cache descriptions for basic users on the API vs 16,000 (!) for Premium members?

Because full access to the API is one of the most useful benefits of premium membership. (IMHO)

 

2 hours ago, BethDaddyKaty said:

I want to do a app for our local school to encourage kids to get out and about by getting badges the more geocaches they find.

What about all the local neighborhood geocaches that are going to be pillaged by local kids who discover hidden containers of treasure?

 

When I've taught younger kids geocaching, I've always had them search for private caches that I placed just for the class. I would never turn elementary-age kids loose on the local neighborhood caches, let alone five-year-olds.

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"Helpful mods" do not set membership policies or pricing for services offered by Geocaching HQ.  So, I cannot provide an official answer.

 

That said, I thought niraD's response "nailed it" on both points he made, and I gave it a little green heart.  As a Community Volunteer Reviewer, youth group and scouting and school projects (from the elementary to the college level) are a constant source of trouble for our group and for the communities we serve.

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59 minutes ago, niraD said:

Because full access to the API is one of the most useful benefits of premium membership. (IMHO)

 

What about all the local neighborhood geocaches that are going to be pillaged by local kids who discover hidden containers of treasure?

 

When I've taught younger kids geocaching, I've always had them search for private caches that I placed just for the class. I would never turn elementary-age kids loose on the local neighborhood caches, let alone five-year-olds.

AFAIK you don't get access to the API as a Premium member.

 

From what you are saying you should never encourage kids to geocache, keep it to adults because kids will just ruin the game. To me that makes little sense.

 

Apart from anything else the age range badges will appeal to are kids that are caching as families. It's only going to appeal to primary school aged children.  I'm not aware that young families are any more irresponsible than other cachers.

 

It seems unlikely that kids wanting to vandalise caches will be any more likely to do so just because they'll earn badges.

 

You're quite right that GSAK means you could just create your own Geocache database as I would only need local ones. Pretty certain it breaks GS terms of service or at least it's less than ideal clearly circumventing their own restrictions, which I guess are there to push PMO rather than a server resource issue.

Edited by BethDaddyKaty
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29 minutes ago, Keystone said:

"Helpful mods" do not set membership policies or pricing for services offered by Geocaching HQ.  So, I cannot provide an official answer.

 

That said, I thought niraD's response "nailed it" on both points he made, and I gave it a little green heart.  As a Community Volunteer Reviewer, youth group and scouting and school projects (from the elementary to the college level) are a constant source of trouble for our group and for the communities we serve.

Thank you, sorry I meant more often people on here have already asked the question and know the answer rather than asking people to make a statement :)

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15 minutes ago, BethDaddyKaty said:

You're quite right that GSAK means you could just create your own Geocache database as I would only need local ones. Pretty certain it breaks GS terms of service or at least it's less than ideal clearly circumventing their own restrictions, which I guess are there to push PMO rather than a server resource issue.

 

Why would it? Any member can just click the GPX link on a cachepage and open it in GSAK. You could do that all day long and populate a database without needing/using the API. There are no restrictions I know of that restrict the amount of GPX files you can download.

 

As for kids, you're right about the fact kids could be "responsible" cachers but depending on their age you can probably expect more of them to misbehave, taking stuff or breaking things. With the right supervision they can be educated not to destroy things so it all depends.

 

 

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2 hours ago, BethDaddyKaty said:

AFAIK you don't get access to the API as a Premium member.

As a premium member, my API based apps get full access to the API, without the limitations imposed on basic members. To-may-to, to-mah-to...

 

2 hours ago, BethDaddyKaty said:

From what you are saying you should never encourage kids to geocache, keep it to adults because kids will just ruin the game. To me that makes little sense.

That's not what I said. I think it's great when kids geocache. That's why I've taught geocaching classes to kids. But even if I completely trust all the kids in my class, I don't necessarily trust their friends and their schoolmates who hear about containers full of "treasure" hidden in the local community. And young kids should be hiking and geocaching under the supervision of their parents (or other responsible adults), not independently.

 

And as the geocaching.com site's Terms of Use say:

Quote

[1.C.] Minors. Because of the nature of the game, which requires a cellular data plan or GPS device and the ability to travel to geocache locations, our services are not directed toward anyone under the age of 16. Although, individuals under 16 are welcome to geocache, their parents or guardians must own and manage their accounts.

 

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2 hours ago, on4bam said:

As for kids, you're right about the fact kids could be "responsible" cachers but depending on their age you can probably expect more of them to misbehave, taking stuff or breaking things. With the right supervision they can be educated not to destroy things so it all depends.

 

Even if all your class are responsible kids who understand how caching works, you can be sure some of them will tell their mates about all the hidden treasures out there and take them to show them after school, and they'll tell their mates and so on. I had a similar situation a few years back when I was doing a bit of caching after an event. A couple of young kids saw me poking around in the trees at the end of the park and wanted to know what I was doing, so I naively told them and they eagerly joined in the hunt. Once it was found, I explained about signing the log and how it was important to put it back for the next person to find and they seemed to get that. Once it was tucked away in its hiding place, they ran off to whatever they'd been doing before I turned up and I went back to the car, but within a few hours that cache had gone missing. Lesson learned. Now if anyone asks, I'm hunting Pokemon.

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7 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Even if all your class are responsible kids who understand how caching works, you can be sure some of them will tell their mates about all the hidden treasures out there and take them to show them after school, and they'll tell their mates and so on.

This! 

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11 hours ago, niraD said:

What about all the local neighborhood geocaches that are going to be pillaged by local kids who discover hidden containers of treasure?

 

When I've taught younger kids geocaching, I've always had them search for private caches that I placed just for the class. I would never turn elementary-age kids loose on the local neighborhood caches, let alone five-year-olds.

 

To the OP: I've taught many geocaching classes at the Parks and Rec. I can't stress enough the importance of the advice stated above by niraD. Please listen. I beg you to listen! 

Edited by Max and 99
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