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Jayeffel

May be good idea, but...

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While Christmas Shopping with my wife I spied a possible cache container. It is a small hand held gift card container.  I figured I can replace the gift card with a log. It is a child type puzzle with a ball bearing in a labyrinth of passages. You manipulate the container so the ball bearing goes to a certain spot then you move a lever to open the lid to get the card/cache log. Sounds real nice--it would be a challenge.

 

But there are problems. Once the container is opened the ball bearing will easily fall out and be lost, thereby making the cache dead. Then another would be that after signing the log would the coacher be able to get it all back together? It took me parts of two days to do so! Oh, it is for ages 6+. I t was able to get the container apart, not certain I have it back right! I need to check the store to compare with another one

 

Okay, that is the bad part, the good part is the contained does not Need to be opened so the ball bearing in in jeopardy. Once the ball is in the right place and the lever is moved, the tree lid opens up and there is the card/ cache log. Merely replace the long with the log, manipulate the ball bearing to a neutral spot, then shut the lid. There you go. 

 

I may need to use plastic glue along the edges so the container cannot open the wrong way. Only the  lid needs opened, not the part with the ball bearing. Be easier to show you then try to describer it.

 

Does this sound viable? Or am I asking for a lot of NM logs? I have not yet decided on a spot to put it. May be a good one for an event.

 

If I do go with it, would I make it as a traditional cache  or a puzzle cache?  The puzzle is after the cache is found, not to find the cache. 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

Does this sound viable? Or am I asking for a lot of NM logs? I have not yet decided on a spot to put it. May be a good one for an event.

 

If the puzzle container stops working, is the cache done?  Is it something you are able to and are willing to fix?  Those are the questions I'd be asking myself before using it as a cache container.

 

From your description it sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

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40 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

If the puzzle container stops working, is the cache done?  Is it something you are able to and are willing to fix?  Those are the questions I'd be asking myself before using it as a cache container.

 

From your description it sounds like a maintenance nightmare.

Yes,. first thought was this will be great, then reality jumped in . It SHOULD NOT be a problem once set up right. but  I know how it goes. So will probably let it go by the wayside. 

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2 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

While Christmas Shopping with my wife I spied a possible cache container. It is a small hand held gift card container.  I figured I can replace the gift card with a log. It is a child type puzzle with a ball bearing in a labyrinth of passages. You manipulate the container so the ball bearing goes to a certain spot then you move a lever to open the lid to get the card/cache log. Sounds real nice--it would be a challenge.

I've found a couple of field puzzle caches that used this kind maze puzzle box. I think the key is to put it in an outer container that protects it from the elements, and to choose a maze puzzle box where the ball bearing moves to the beginning of the maze after it activates the latch.

 

2 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

But there are problems. Once the container is opened the ball bearing will easily fall out and be lost, thereby making the cache dead.

The ones I've seen have had a ball bearing that stayed trapped in the maze. The latch mechanism that opens the box automatically moves the ball bearing from the end of the maze back to the beginning of the maze. Solving the puzzle automatically resets it, and the ball bearing never gets lost.

 

2 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

Then another would be that after signing the log would the coacher be able to get it all back together? It took me parts of two days to do so! Oh, it is for ages 6+. I t was able to get the container apart, not certain I have it back right! I need to check the store to compare with another one

The ones I've seen had a door that snapped shut easily. There was nothing to put back together. Of course, once you close the door, you have to solve the puzzle again to reopen it, but it's easy enough to keep the door open until you're done signing the log and all.

 

2 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

If I do go with it, would I make it as a traditional cache  or a puzzle cache?  The puzzle is after the cache is found, not to find the cache. 

 

I would list it as a puzzle cache. Listing it as a traditional is asking for trouble from people who want to simply find the container and sign the log. If your volunteer reviewer won't list on-site puzzles at the listed coordinates as puzzle caches, then include a simple puzzle in the cache page so your volunteer reviewer will list it as a puzzle cache.

 

And make it clear in the description that there is an on-site puzzle to access the log, and include a sign on the outer container saying that the log is in the puzzle cube and must be signed. You could even state that they must sign the yellow (or whatever color) log, which would reduce "replacement" logs since most people are going to be carrying white paper, not colored paper.

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1 hour ago, niraD said:

I've found a couple of field puzzle caches that used this kind maze puzzle box. I think the key is to put it in an outer container that protects it from the elements, and to choose a maze puzzle box where the ball bearing moves to the beginning of the maze after it activates the latch.

Had not realized when I bought this that is was a one time puzzle basically.

 

I actually went and got another four reference! I think I can modify it so that is looks like a maze puzzle, but actually isn't , the ball just moves around but with a bit of modifying the tripping mechanism it might work, 

 

Now If I really took the time to se the puzzle work as it is intended, I might see the ball return to a starting point, thus being a great able cache.I guess I need a 6 year old to solve it for me. 

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I've thought about that idea and decided not to follow through on it.  I know which type of container you're talking about as well, having seen them myself, in what is most likely a similar item.  As niraD has stated, it would need to be in another larger container to protect it from the elements.  I never played around with it to see if it could be used multiple times or was a one off type of thing.  Amazon has one on sale for 15$ that says it can be re-used multiple times.

 

I did have a small nano in a larger lock-n-lock that had a two level maze inside of it that required the finder to re-solve it to put it back to its intended starting point.  Before that particular stage went missing, finders were willing to do the "extra" work to return it to how they found it.  I created it, thinking it would be neat to do and then realized that they'd have to do it twice.  Thankfully all were willing.

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We gave the money maze banks we bought to nephews for Christmas, and had their cash in it. 

 - We aren't young enough to have a clue what they need. :D  

All had the bearing sealed inside.  We've found a few money boxes as "field puzzles" to access the log. 

We experience all the seasons here, and some were frozen by condensation and unworkable.

In plastic containers, an ammo can probably would've fixed that.

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5 hours ago, niraD said:

The ones I've seen have had a ball bearing that stayed trapped in the maze. The latch mechanism that opens the box automatically moves the ball bearing from the end of the maze back to the beginning of the maze. Solving the puzzle automatically resets it, and the ball bearing never gets lost.

 

I received one of those as a gift once!  There was a button/lever that pushed the ball bearing once it was in the correct spot.  You don't touch the ball, and it pops into the start position when the door opens.

 

Every "puzzle box" I've ever found in a cache was broken a long time before I found it.  Pry marks, loose pieces, broken in half, broken into pieces.  Everything except treated gently so everyone can try solving it.  Most of those were wooden boxes that won't hold up in the field anyway.  But neither does plastic.

 

If I had a lot of replacement puzzle boxes on hand for some reason, I could plan to periodically replace a broken one.  But it's disappointing how broken these things get.

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3 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

I think I can modify it so that is looks like a maze puzzle, but actually isn't , the ball just moves around but with a bit of modifying the tripping mechanism it might work

 

That would be pretty cool!  The fewer moving parts, the fewer things to break! :)

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3 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

Had not realized when I bought this that is was a one time puzzle basically.

 

I actually went and got another four reference! I think I can modify it so that is looks like a maze puzzle, but actually isn't , the ball just moves around but with a bit of modifying the tripping mechanism it might work, 

 

Now If I really took the time to se the puzzle work as it is intended, I might see the ball return to a starting point, thus being a great able cache.I guess I need a 6 year old to solve it for me. 

Jayeffel, it sounds like it would be a neat and original geocache find! If you decide not to hide it...it would make a great Christmas gift for a child. Place a 10, 20 or 50 dollar bill in it and make them work for their money! LOL

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I think it is repeatable! This old man -way past the 6+ tag on the box- go it to work, and the ball bearing went to the starting position. Now to seal the edges I don't want to move and move on. 

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5 minutes ago, caughtatwork said:

First frustrated person who hates "field puzzles" will hit it with a hammer or smack it against a rock, just to get to the log.

Hence my recommendation to list it as a puzzle cache, not as a traditional cache. Even if your volunteer reviewer requires a puzzle in the cache description before you can list it as a puzzle cache.

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What I might do, if allowed, is to place this in a traditional cache I do have in place. This cache has been in place since5/24/18 and has been found seven times. Could be an added attraction to the cache there. But could I /would I be able to have a separate cache number for this/ One cache sit , two separate caches - one log could be signed the other ignored or worked on. Interesting the the ideas that pop up-- naturally that is! But if not condoned, there are other avenues.

 

Still thinking of how to place it, ammo box ideas are good.  One reason if allowed at the established site, it is hard enough to get to to be relatively muggle proof. Maybe a saving feature. 

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I think your main problem is the requirement for people to put it back together rather than the placement itself. There are loads of cool puzzles I've thought of doing, but the difficult bit is always in finding something that can be put back together quickly, simply and often. If it took you two days to relock it and has an easily lost part then even the most well intentioned cachers probably won't relock it for you.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

What I might do, if allowed, is to place this in a traditional cache I do have in place. This cache has been in place since5/24/18 and has been found seven times. Could be an added attraction to the cache there. But could I /would I be able to have a separate cache number for this/ One cache sit , two separate caches - one log could be signed the other ignored or worked on. Interesting the the ideas that pop up-- naturally that is! But if not condoned, there are other avenues.

 

Still thinking of how to place it, ammo box ideas are good.  One reason if allowed at the established site, it is hard enough to get to to be relatively muggle proof. Maybe a saving feature. 

 

Maybe you could if it's a Trackable item (so it doesn't get "traded" by accident) that holds the clue to a Mystery cache.  Some caches have Trackables that remain in place and are clues or keys or whatever.  Check with your cache Reviewer.

 

 

Edited by kunarion

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29 minutes ago, daddybeth said:

I think your main problem is the requirement for people to put it back together rather than the placement itself. There are loads of cool puzzles I've thought of doing, but the difficult bit is always in finding something that can be put back together quickly, simply and often. If it took you two days to relock it and has an easily lost part then even the most well intentioned cachers probably won't relock it for you.

I tried the contraption and the ball bearing does go back where it starts without needing to open the container. The lid that covers the gift card/now log is a separate piece, I just need to seal the edges a bit better to be sure. Scotch tape may work okay .The lid can be snapped back in place- after the log is  reinserted. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

I tried the contraption and the ball bearing does go back where it starts without needing to open the container. The lid that covers the gift card/now log is a separate piece, I just need to seal the edges a bit better to be sure. Scotch tape may work okay .The lid can be snapped back in place- after the log is  reinserted. 

 

Without seeing a photo it's a bit difficult to imagine but you have move the ball bearing back through the maze to the starting point? Could be sceptical but I'm not sure everyone will do that.

 

It would almost be better to have the bearing fall out at the end, then drill a hole and make a simple non-return value with some sheet plastic at the start so cachers can just push the ball bearing back into the start.

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The ball bearing simply goes- or at least went- past the tripping device and stayed in the maze back at the beginning or close enough to it. Once I had the manipulation done I watched to see what would happen, pleasantly surprised. 

 

Drilling a hole etc, would greatly increase the chance of the ball bearing to be dropped and lost. Trying to keep it simple and appealing

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1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

The ball bearing simply goes- or at least went- past the tripping device and stayed in the maze back at the beginning or close enough to it. Once I had the manipulation done I watched to see what would happen, pleasantly surprised. 

 

The ones I've seen have been pretty simple. There's a lever that can slide back and forth, but it does nothing if the ball bearing isn't in the notch that it fits into. If the ball bearing is at the end of the maze, then it can drop into the notch. Then the lever can slide to the other side, and in the process it unlatches the compartment and ejects the ball bearing at the start of the maze. There's a spring-loaded latch that keeps the ball at the start of the maze from falling back into the notch. You have to run it back through the maze before you can make the mechanism work again.

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