PVC pipes and the Earth

[+Faycocache]

So I’ve read extensively and even found geocaches that utilized a piece of PVC pipe in the ground and you must add water to get the cache to float to the top.

 

how do these caches not violate the rules of hiding a geocache, more specifically the one that states you’re not allowed to bury a cache? Is this a grey area?

[+Max and 99]

10 minutes ago, mossyoakd said:

So I’ve read extensively and even found geocaches that utilized a piece of PVC pipe in the ground and you must add water to get the cache to float to the top.

 

how do these caches not violate the rules of hiding a geocache, more specifically the one that states you’re not allowed to bury a cache? Is this a grey area?

I've never found a water cache in a pvc pipe that was buried. All of them were above ground.

[Keystone]

With express, documented permission from the landowner, many things are possible.  ?

[+cerberus1]

10 minutes ago, mossyoakd said:

how do these caches not violate the rules of hiding a geocache, more specifically the one that states you’re not allowed to bury a cache? Is this a grey area?

 

Not that I know of...    When we first started we'd see them all over the place.  Hope you had a hint "It's hot out, bring water" or similar. 

Now most we know of are strapped to something, with the bottom capped.  Some you need a magnet for too.

 

In fact, we saw so many that one day I thought I'd "help" a new couple who couldn't find one.  Everybody's GPSr led us to a pipe...

I filled that pipe with over a gallon of water, when the other 2/3rds yelled she found it 12' away.    

[+Max and 99]

25 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Not that I know of...    When we first started we'd see them all over the place.  Hope you had a hint "It's hot out, bring water" or similar. 

Now most we know of are strapped to something, with the bottom capped.  Some you need a magnet for too.

 

In fact, we saw so many that one day I thought I'd "help" a new couple who couldn't find one.  Everybody's GPSr led us to a pipe...

I filled that pipe with over a gallon of water, when the other 2/3rds yelled she found it 12' away.    

Mine is very big, and near a lake. If you run out of water, guess where you refill it? It won't be easy though!

[+barefootjeff]

19 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Mine is very big, and near a lake. If you run out of water, guess where you refill it? It won't be easy though!

 

The one I've found like that is next to a lake too, and took quite a few trips back and forth to fill it to the required level. I'm pretty sure it wasn't buried, I think it was tied to a tree but I don't have a photo of it so I'm not sure now.

[+Touchstone]

You can also find additional information in the Help Center regarding the interpretation of that particular portion of the Guidelines:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=128&pgid=905

 

Like Keystone said, with permission, many things are possible.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say there's probably more flexibility in that portion of the Guidelines than either the Agenda or Commercial portion of the Guidelines.

[+the Seagnoid]

The rule against burying the cache is to avoid cachers getting out with a spade and digging holes all over the place.

 

If it does not require the finder to remove soil to find the cache, then the cache is not buried (even if it is located below ground level)

[Keystone]

3 hours ago, the Seagnoid said:

The rule against burying the cache is to avoid cachers getting out with a spade and digging holes all over the place.

 

If it does not require the finder to remove soil to find the cache, then the cache is not buried (even if it is located below ground level)

 

This reasoning doesn't square with the listing guidelines, which address both placing and searching for the cache.

 

While it's true that a PVC pipe sticking up out of the ground doesn't require the finder to dig a hole, the hider had to dig a hole in order to place the PVC pipe there.  So, it's covered by the "Buried Caches" hiding guideline.  See my prior post - express, documented permission would be required. 

 

Many hiders choose to strap the PVC pipe to an above-ground object, as noted in prior replies.  This is less invasive and more guidelines-compliant.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

7 hours ago, Touchstone said:

You can also find additional information in the Help Center regarding the interpretation of that particular portion of the Guidelines:

 

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=128&pgid=905

 

Like Keystone said, with permission, many things are possible.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say there's probably more flexibility in that portion of the Guidelines than either the Agenda or Commercial portion of the Guidelines.

 

It's also a guideline, that unless the cache owner describes the cache to the reviewer, it might get published even if it violates the no defacement guideline.  Then the cache will get favorite points rather than get reported as a guideline violation.  

[+NYPaddleCacher]

4 hours ago, the Seagnoid said:

The rule against burying the cache is to avoid cachers getting out with a spade and digging holes all over the place.

 

If it does not require the finder to remove soil to find the cache, then the cache is not buried (even if it is located below ground level)

 

No.  The rule against burying the caches is to avoid land managers from getting the perception that this is a game about digging holes and burying containers.  It makes it more likely that a land manager will grant permission to place a cache on the property they manage. 

 

It doesn't help that geocachers insist on trying to find a way around the guideline by coming up with their own definition of "buried".  It doesn't matter if a cache owner used a shovel,  a leaf blower, a power washer or dropped a bowling ball from a helicopter to create a hole.   The land manager isn't going to care how the hole was created.  They're just going to see a hole in the ground that wasn't there before a geocache was put into it.  

Edited June 26, 2019 by NYPaddleCacher

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

It doesn't help that geocachers insist on trying to find a way around the guideline by coming up with their own definition of "buried". 

It also doesn't help that Groundspeak keeps promoting geocaching as a "treasure hunt". One of the connotations of that phrase that is incorrect when applied to geocaching is the idea of buried treasure.

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, niraD said:

It also doesn't help that Groundspeak keeps promoting geocaching as a "treasure hunt". One of the connotations of that phrase that is incorrect when applied to geocaching is the idea of buried treasure.

Agreed.

I've talked about this "real-world, outdoor treasure hunt"  here and at events.   

I feel trackables became the new "treasure" when once n dones find a Mc-toy and a plastic dino inside, on their one weekend in the hobby. 

 - Guess "language of location" didn't fit anymore when you have caches at dumpsters...

More than a few  people who've done no research on the hobby,  have asked us somewhere in the gazillion questions if they'd need a shovel or spade.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by cerberus1

[+The A-Team]

11 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

It doesn't help that geocachers insist on trying to find a way around the guideline by coming up with their own definition of "buried".  It doesn't matter if a cache owner used a shovel,  a leaf blower, a power washer or dropped a bowling ball from a helicopter to create a hole.   The land manager isn't going to care how the hole was created.  They're just going to see a hole in the ground that wasn't there before a geocache was put into it.  

 

 

"I didn't use a shovel"

[+colleda]

20 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I've never found a water cache in a pvc pipe that was buried. All of them were above ground.

I've found a few. Also PVC pipe in ground with a screw top lid containing a second container with the log. Another was a PVC pipe within another PVC pipe which was a field puzzle that required various up/down/twist left/right movements to release it. Another recent one was a PVC pipe attached to a sewer inspection plate and buried next to a sidewalk. It had a history of soggy logs and as recently as a week ago had dog poop in it. I emailed a local reviewer but nothing has happened. It had a heap of Favorite points which is often the case for these. Without exception, they have all had water problems, soggy, mouldy, unsignable logs.