Banks-Vernonia State Trail in Oregon - Geo-restriction

[+Bryan (Admin)]

Groundspeak received the following email. This is posted with permission from the sender. Please take note:

 

"To whom it may concern,

My name is Mike Shannon. I am the Park Ranger at the Banks-Vernonia State

Trail in Oregon. The reason I am sending you this email is to let you know

of some problems we are having with GeoCachers at the Park.

 

Of the 6 or so caches currently in the Park, only one has asked permission

to place his cache. The others have been placed without any contact to or

permission from Oregon Parks and Recreation Dept. (OPRD).

 

Another, and more serious, problem we are having is trespassing at night

after the park has closed. It seems that some GeoCachers like to look for

the caches in the dark. The Banks-Vernonia State Trail is a day-use only

park, and closes at dusk.

 

Because of this, GEOCACHING WILL NO LONGER BE ALLOWED AT THE BANKS-VERNONIA

STATE TRAIL, effective immediatly. I am trying to contact all the owners

of caches placed in the Park to come and get their caches.

 

If anyone has any questions about this, they can contact me directly at

503-324-0606.

Thank you.

Mike Shannon"

 

Rothstafari

www.Groundspeak.com

[+oregone]

This will affect this cache for sure, but i can't seem to pull up any of the other four that i know are/were there--even though i've actually found one of them.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

[+oregone]

Due to the exponential growth of geocaching this summer, i think that this should serve as a reminder (or to some, a wake-up call) that the city, county, and state parks system is aware of our hobby.

Before anyone decides to go off half-cocked (not that anyone would, as this isn't the general forum), i ask y'all to remember that park rangers are totally rational and friendly people that are just doing their job. Maps-R-Us had a GREAT idea when they organized the Champoeg Rendezvous. Perhaps we should consider this as the model way to go about placing a cache in public parks.

About half of the active caches i've placed are in some sort of public park, and i guess it's about time i notified the agencies responsible for their official upkeep. I'm sure that seth! and moun10bike up north have suggestions on how to do this.

 

Finally, to the night cachers: Although i've frequently found caches at night, i think it's a good idea to obey the posted hours if said cache is in a park. I don't want to sound like the cache police here, so don't get me wrong--especially since finding caches after dark is a daily thing for us come, say, October. In fact, some of the more memorable finds i have were indeed after sunset. But i think we can all agree that breaking the law in the name of geocaching doesn't help anyone involved.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

[+Mr. Snazz]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out, for central oregon geocachers, the guidelines posted here:

 

http://www.cogeo.org/guidelines.html

 

Always obey posted rules. Its disrespectful to second-guess them by violating them. If you expect respect and understanding from agencies for our sport, please also show them respect.

 

Golden rule, anyone?

 

[+Mr. Snazz]

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out, for central oregon geocachers, the guidelines posted here:

 

http://www.cogeo.org/guidelines.html

 

Always obey posted rules. Its disrespectful to second-guess them by violating them. If you expect respect and understanding from agencies for our sport, please also show them respect.

 

Golden rule, anyone?

 

[John E Cache]

quote:

---

Originally posted by oregone:

This will affect http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=30975 for sure, but i can't seem to pull up any of the other four that i know are/were there--even though i've actually found one of them.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

---

 

I found these four:

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=24808

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=24810

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=24811

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=4489

[+oregone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by John E Cache:

I found these four:

...

 

---

 

weird, i can click on the link, but it brings me to the hide and seek page--even though i'm logged in. no wonder i couldn't find those when i searched.

 

and now it won't let me edit my own caches. weird.

 

sorry to get off-topic...

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

[mike.shannon]

I am glad to see that everyone so far is agreeing with this decision. The intent of OPRD is not to "kill" geocaching at the Banks-Vernonia State Trail. We just want to make sure that everyone obeys the rules. Starting from square one, as it were. I am open to suggestions on how to make sure everyone follows the rules so we can open the Park again to GeoCaching. I am even willing to hold special events in the Park, possibly to include some Park-approved night-time searches. But, we will not tolerate after-hours trespassing, venturing onto the trestles, or caches hidden without permission. I would encourage anyone with ideas, questions, or concerns to call me directly at 503-324-0606.

Thank you.

Mike Shannon

Ranger

[+oregone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by mike.shannon:

I am glad to see that everyone so far is agreeing with this decision. The intent of OPRD is not to "kill" geocaching at the Banks-Vernonia State Trail. We just want to make sure that everyone obeys the rules. Starting from square one, as it were. I am open to suggestions on how to make sure everyone follows the rules so we can open the Park again to GeoCaching. I am even willing to hold special events in the Park, possibly to include some Park-approved night-time searches. But, we will not tolerate after-hours trespassing, venturing onto the trestles, or caches hidden without permission. I would encourage anyone with ideas, questions, or concerns to call me directly at 503-324-0606.

Thank you.

Mike Shannon

Ranger

---

 

The fact that Mr. Shannon posted to the forum is awesome. In fact, it may have supplanted my usual #3 "reasons i'm glad for being an oregonian: that stupid henry's commercial with the girls on the windswept rainy beach."

 

As for a 'special event in the Park,' any geocachers out there wanna take a little bike ride? i'm sure i could make it worth yr while.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

[+misguided one]

Ranger Shannon,

 

It is nice to see that the Oregone Parks Dept. is open minded about geocaching. I appreciate your willingness to allow the owners of the caches in question to come by your office and retrieve the containers.

 

Unfortunately there will always be people that feel the posted hours and rules don't apply to them, for some odd reason. I sincerely hope that your park and the geocaching community can work out the problems and get caches placed in the park in the future.

 

As a Washington state cacher, I am seeing problems that are starting with our state parks. Hopefuly, we will be able to find kind and helpful rangers like yourself, and we'll be able to solve any misunderstandings about our sport/hobby.

 

Thank you for your willingness to work with cachers in your area.

 

Misguided One

WSGA

[+misguided one]

To the cachers in WA,

 

This situation can happen to us, but with a more severe outcome. How would you like to see caching banned in the WA State parks all together. If we don't treat the rangers with the respect they deserve. Guess what people, some of the park rangers know about geocaching.com and actually have user names, and they might even read these forums.

 

Rather than criticizing/hastling them, remember they have a job to do. If you haven't obtained permission for your cache to be in a park, don't get P***ed Off when there is a problem. Try to be understanding of their position, and make the extra effort to solve the problem before things get out of control.

[+The Tungsten Jihad!]

I'll take the hit for this one. No, I didn't ask permission. Why not? Dunno (Ya I sound like a 6 year old but I have no excuses). I really hate to see caching get a black eye and hate it even worse when I'm the cause. I'll take the responsibility for the night time trips too. I should have put the park hours on the cache page but didn't. It's too easy to be tempted to ignore hours postings when you just drove 25 miles to find a cache. And to make matters worse, h20dog did it right and got punished through my lack of responsibility. Sorry about that. So I'd like to apologize to the PDX crowd for this little incident and to Ranger Shannon (who I must say has been as reasonable above and beyond what could be hoped for) for wasting his time. I hope everyone learns from my errors and follows the rules because if we can't play by the rules we wont be playing at all.

-TJ

[+oregone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Tungsten Jihad!:

I'll take the hit for this one. No, I didn't ask permission. Why not? Dunno (Ya I sound like a 6 year old but I have no excuses). I really hate to see caching get a black eye and hate it even worse when I'm the cause. I'll take the responsibility for the night time trips too. I should have put the park hours on the cache page but didn't. It's too easy to be tempted to ignore hours postings when you just drove 25 miles to find a cache. And to make matters worse, h20dog did it right and got punished through my lack of responsibility. Sorry about that. So I'd like to apologize to the PDX crowd for this little incident and to Ranger Shannon (who I must say has been as reasonable above and beyond what could be hoped for) for wasting his time. I hope everyone learns from my errors and follows the rules because if we can't play by the rules we wont be playing at all.

-TJ

---

 

hey TJ, you don't have to take the hit for this one. in my opinion, you placed the caches before permission was necessary. back when we were 22 people or so running around looking behind stumps, we could blend in easier than a californian tourist on 2nd ave. nowadays, we have 1200 caches in this state. 'nuff said bout that.

 

and you DON'T need to feel responsible for not posting the fact that you can't hunt said caches at night. i've said it before, but breaking the law in the name of geocaching doesn't help anyone--no matter how many miles you've strayed from home to find the trailhead.

 

ranger shannon has offered us an opportunity, and i say we take him up on it.

 

now how 'bout that bike race?

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

[+The Tungsten Jihad!]

Thanks oregone but yes I do have to take the blame for this one. Permission has always been a requirement, for as long as I've been caching anyway. As far as the night trips goes, it's the hiders responsibility to make sure all the relevant information is posted. That includes park hours if appropriate. Some parks do not have hours posted. Some, like forest park, are open until late at night. The signs are at the trailhead they used but it's quite possible that someone could drive right by one and not see it. If they did not see the sign and the cache page did not say different it's not unreasonable to think the park was open. Regardless, I should have posted the dusk to dawn requirement.

[markl32]

Oregone, your hints at a bike event in the park frighten and intrigue me... What do you have in mind?

 

Ranger Shannon, your willingness to accommodate and work with the local geocaching community is outstanding! Unlike so many of your peers in state and federal government you demonstrate the true spirit of public service. Thank you!

[soup]

Misguided One brings up a good point. Some rangers were (are) having problems with caches placed on Wa. state parks. And for good reason. Some of the washington folks formed an organized group to discuss and work through these issues with state organizations. Washington Group Discussion

 

Anyway, since Oregon ALLREADY has a pretty strong group of local geocachers (i.e. Spike Night Crew) I believe we can put some formal planning during one of our meets.. like after one of our events, we discuss local issues and how to respond to them. Sound interesting? Hmmmmm..

 

Hey TJ, we aint perfect. We now know and need to respond in a proper fashion.

 

"I put instant soup in a microwave and almost went back in time." -Stephen Wright

[+oregone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by markl32:

Oregone, your hints at a bike event in the park frighten and intrigue me... What do you have in mind?

---

 

I don't have any concrete ideas yet, but i know the following:

 

1) The ride from Tophill to Buxton is a pleasant 5-mile downhill trip.

2) The park is looking for volunteers.

 

Is there a way that we can combine those two things in a way that would make it worthwhile to justify gettin' together? and can it involve some sort of bbq pork? and a post-party at Rogue in Banks? i'm open to suggestions.

 

all rights reserved, all wrongs reversed

[+DenaliNW]

Sounds intriguing. Keep us up to date on what you're thinking Oregone. My bike has been hanging from the garage ceiling for most of the year, while my own "spare tire" grows and grows.

[+h2odog]

I was just getting ready to start a topic on this issue, and here it is already going strong-I must be slow . I'll just add that I spoke with Ranger Shannon yesterday morning and it was a very productive conversation. I think he will be very supportive of geocaching in the park once some basic rules are established that will protect sensitive areas in the park as well as park visitor's personal safety.

 

I for one would support and participate in a caching event that would combine some volunteering, bbqing and caching as Oregonne suggested-sounds like fun.

 

I would also like to suggest that all geocachers who currently have caches hidden in other Oregon state parks seriously consider approaching the park managers and getting permission right away, if you haven't already. If this is on the radar screen at Banks-Vernonia, other park rangers will be looking at what's going on in their respective parks.

[+h2odog]

I was just getting ready to start a topic on this issue, and here it is already going strong-I must be slow . I'll just add that I spoke with Ranger Shannon yesterday morning and it was a very productive conversation. I think he will be very supportive of geocaching in the park once some basic rules are established that will protect sensitive areas in the park as well as park visitor's personal safety.

 

I for one would support and participate in a caching event that would combine some volunteering, bbqing and caching as Oregonne suggested-sounds like fun.

 

I would also like to suggest that all geocachers who currently have caches hidden in other Oregon state parks seriously consider approaching the park managers and getting permission right away, if you haven't already. If this is on the radar screen at Banks-Vernonia, other park rangers will be looking at what's going on in their respective parks.