+EraSeek Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Renegade Knight (from Idaho I think) brought up a question on another post that makes sense. Maybe posting this on the NW board can get everyone in the same boat. When a cache is removed or plundered and no longer there (for sure) the spot should be marked with a sign that it is gone. Kind of like the parallel sticks rule (something is close by). The idea was a teepee of sticks or a rock cairn. I'm thinking an ''X'' of anything, rocks, sticks, whatever. This would be a help to those still looking for archived caches. What do you think? Quote Link to comment
+idahoflyer Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 What are you doing looking for Archived Caches? Beauty is in The Eye of The Beer Holder! Quote Link to comment
+Kodak's4 Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by EraSeek:Renegade Knight (from Idaho I think) brought up a question on another post that makes sense. Maybe posting this on the NW board can get everyone in the same boat. When a cache is removed or plundered and no longer there (for sure) the spot should be marked with a sign that it is gone. Kind of like the parallel sticks rule (something is close by). The idea was a teepee of sticks or a rock cairn. I'm thinking an _''X''_ of anything, rocks, sticks, whatever. This would be a help to those still looking for archived caches. What do you think? http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/4497_300.jpg I like the idea of some sort of standardized 'tombstone' for caches, which would alert cachers that the cache they're seeking has passed on to that big ammo can in the sky. But are you advocating that each time we archive a cache, we go out and leave a tombstone? Or were you planning on getting the cache plunderers to handle that task? It might be good to have several accepted tombstones. Stick teepees sound good, as do rock cairns. Or even a 'the cache is gone' note stapled to a tree. Quote Link to comment
+Mr. Snazz Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Maybe we could have a website for geocaches, so that people can leave a note for a cache to let others know that it is gone... Hmmm.... Sounds like a lot of work, anybody want to volunteer to put such a site together? Quote Link to comment
+Boojum Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Wouldn't it suck if you spent all that time making your plundered cache "tombstone" just to have it plundered? I just hope that people are responsible with their archived caches and regularly go check to see that the marker is still out there! Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 SHEEESH! No, nothing so complex! If you pull a cache, leave a tombstone while you are there. If you happen to be there and you know it is gone, leave a tombstone for the next guy. No big maintainence thing, just a courtesy to the next guy that says ''Hey, its toast''. Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Once a cache is archived I don't think it needs marked. But moving caches, do need to be marked if case someone else comes along before a note can be posted to the website. Plus I've had occasion to move two caches, one had been bulldozed, the other plundered. Had someone followed right behind me they would have got skunked but not known of the plunder or move. Stick Tee Pee's are someting I've seen on moving caches. Logscaler pointed out (and this can be true in Idaho) that sticks are not always availbe. So maybe rocks in an obviouse small cairn (as opposed to an URP), if sticks are not available. Stapling a note to the tree or dirt just doesn't seem like a good idea. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Bad Dog 1762 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 WHAT!!! Here we are support to be supporting nature, not ruining the trees that surround our beautiful area....geez, what were you thinking? Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted February 4, 2003 Author Share Posted February 4, 2003 Makes you wonder what the ''H'' is going on in the heads of the so-called Eco-terrorists when they 'spike' trees, doesn't it! A staple won't hurt a tree, but it wouldn't look none to pretty. Quote Link to comment
+Kodak's4 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by EraSeek:Makes you wonder what the ''H'' is going on in the heads of the so-called Eco-terrorists when they 'spike' trees, doesn't it! A staple won't hurt a tree, but it wouldn't look none to pretty. http://img.Groundspeak.com/user/4497_300.jpg I'm pretty sure that what's going on in the heads of someone spiking a tree is the image of a high speed saw blade hitting the spike and shattering, sending small sharp bits of metal flying at high speed through the equipment and also through the soft delicate bodies of the mill workers, causing horrific destruction and injury. But maybe there's some aspect of tree spiking that I'm not seeing. Stapling a note is actually a bad idea, not because of tree damage but because it's clearly visible to non-geocachers. The odds that the note would survive past the first viewing are exactly zero. My big problem with the idea is this: out of 400 something caches I've searched for, there have been perhaps 4 or 5 that were no longer there. Of those 4 or 5, every single one had vanished but the cache hider was unaware the cache was missing. So unless you convince the cache plunderer to leave a tombstone, I just don't see them as solving a big problem. On the other side, out of the caches I've hidden, I've had to archive one. I've several times temporarily deactivated caches, and then reactivated them after checking on the cache or fixing a problem. I could put a tombstone at the archived cache location, but it's a multicache. Do I put a tombstone at the first waypoint? At all four waypoints? For a temporarily deactivated cache, do I put a tombstone in place when I deactivate the cache? Because if I have to go to the spot to put up a tombstone, I'll be fixing the cache. In one case, I've deactivated two caches because a river flooding has made them inaccessible. That means that a tombstone would be inaccessible, too. Even worse, a number of times people have (wrongly) concluded the cache was missing when they just couldn't find it. Now, if they decided to help out by leaving a tombstone, I'd have to go out to the cache to dismantle the tombstone, instead of just using email to find out they hadn't searched in the right spot. It's bad enough with people hitting the 'this cache should be archived' button without good cause; having people marking the cache location in the field without good cause could generate mass confusion, especially if the cache is remote (and hard to maintain) or if the cache owner isn't notified. The upshot is that if I'm searching for a cache, finding a tombstone might indicate the cache is gone, or it might not. If the tombstone was placed by the cache owner, then it's probably reliable, but I expect that anyone responsible enough to place a tombstone will also indicate the cache is gone on the web site. If it wasn't placed by the cache owner, the tombstone is probably unreliable. I've found perhaps a dozen caches where people had posted logs saying they thought the cache was gone when it was still there. I've found one cache where the cache owner said it was gone when it was still there! I like the idea of tombstones, but I just don't see a practical way to make it work better than just marking the cache as missing on the website and then urging people to check the website before searching. When the only way to get cache listings was to print them on paper, this was a hassle. With pocket queries, folks can get the most up to date info with very little hassle, so there's very little excuse for working from a cache description that's more than a few days old. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I don’t like the idea of stapling a note to a tree, only because the note is unsightly. The staple will not hurt the tree; in fact, studies have shown that nails, screws, staples, and fence wire are actually beneficial to tree growth. You see, the tree likes to grow around such objects. Have you ever seen a tree that has grown around a barb-wire fence? The iron and tin are also beneficial to the tree, especially in areas where the soil is lacking in these important minerals. Further, it doesn’t “hurt” the tree in the physical sense; the tree has no nervous system that would allow it to feel the insertion of the metal object. If you have two small saplings, and pound nails and staples into one and not the other, the tree full of the metal nails and staples will be much healthier than the other. Some druids say that a tree adorned in bent rusty nails, like jewelry on a pretty lady, has a happier aura than a plain tree. Trees like human attention, even though some would have you believe otherwise. So staple, nail, and screw as many trees as you like. I think Eraseek’s point is about they way we sometimes head out looking a cache with a printout that may be a week old or more. I have a couple up in the visor of my car that are two weeks old, my intention was to hit them if I was in the neighborhood. In such a case it would be a real time-saver if I got to the cache site and knew, by the accepted sign, that the cache was no longer there. EDIT: Typo http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/ [This message was edited by Criminal on February 05, 2003 at 02:43 PM.] Quote Link to comment
+EraSeek Posted February 5, 2003 Author Share Posted February 5, 2003 As Kodak's statement points out, this is mostly a solution looking for a problem. Perhaps not worth the pixels used to discuss it. But as Criminal states, it is a simple idea to be used for convenience and courtesy sake when the situation presents itself. Hey, that was interesting about nails in trees there Criminal! Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Since there is actually a bunch of debate of the merits of the problem to begin with I think this thread was a waste of pixels. Except I rather liked Criminals post. Since I've had the problem here is my solution. Next time I'll leave the stick tee pee. If sticks are not available I'll leave a small rock cairn (too small to hide a cache). Problem solved. Maybe I won't need it for the next 300 caches, but since I would have needed twice in the last month I didn't need debate over a 'solution looking for a problem' I wanted a consensus. Still unilateral action works for me. Wherever you go there you are. Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 quote:snip Since I've had the problem here is my solution. Next time I'll leave the stick tee pee. If sticks are not available I'll leave a small rock cairn (too small to hide a cache). If you need sticks, the trees are full of them. Just tear some off a nearby tree. If the tree is short, rip them off from the middle and the tree will grow taller. If the tree is too skinny, break them off the top and the tree will poof out. Either way, the tree will be better for it. http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/ Quote Link to comment
+Zzzoey & illDRIVEuNav Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 that we need an environmental assessment statement for said tree that will be sacrificed for no other reason than to signify the demise of a geocache. haha.. just kidding. I am dealing with this murk murk at work and it does tend to get so frustrating! Accentuating the negative and devaluing the positive... etc etc etc... Quote Link to comment
+yumitori Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Criminal: If you need sticks, the trees are full of them. Just tear some off a nearby tree. If the tree is short, rip them off from the middle and the tree will grow taller. If the tree is too skinny, break them off the top and the tree will poof out. Either way, the tree will be better for it. Hey, guy. As I recall you're military currently. What's your forestry background? Ron/yumitori Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted February 7, 2003 Share Posted February 7, 2003 quote:Originally posted by yumitori: Hey, guy. As I recall you're military currently. What's your forestry background? Ron/yumitori Yes, but I'm a Flight Engineer, what we don't know we make up. http://fp1.centurytel.net/Criminal_Page/ Quote Link to comment
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