Microsoft Streets and Trips

[+Mitragorz]

Hey guys. I know this isn't a geocaching topic, but this is the only place I could think of where GPS know-it-alls would congregate

 

I own a snow removal company. This year, we've got a contract with the NYC Dept. of Sanitation to plow the streets of Queens. We've got several district, each with several routes. Here is an example of what I'm dealing with:

 

 

 

It's a lot of work to drive, plow, read the directions (and understand them), and read the map, all while driving with a blizzard. The easiest thing for me to do is create a custom GPX route for each route (S&T seems to be the easiest way for me to do that) then upload them all to a normal, handheld nav GPS, like a Garmin or Magellan you can pick up at Best Buy.

 

I can create the routes with no problem, but I can't seem to get either of my GPS units to accept the GPX file that S&T spits out. My old Magellan Maestro 4370, I just don't think has the capability to accept custom routes. However, I know for a fact the my Garmin Colorado CAN read custom GPX routes, because I've downloaded hiking trails to that unit in the past. But for some reason, it doesn't like the GPX file that S&T puts out. A little more research, and it seems that S&T gets a little "sloppy" when writing a GPX file.

 

Anyway, my question is, do you have any recommendations on a GPS unit that can accept the S&T GPX file and navigate the route?

 

The simplest way to do this would be to simply buy a GPS antenna for my laptop and use S&T to navigate, but my laptop would take up a lot of real estate in an already-cramped cab.

[eaparks]

Sounds to me like the perfect need for a custom vector map, made transparent so the street areas you are contracted to plow are custom colored using a .typ file. This custom map with, let's say... The color of your choice is used for your areas to plow are overlaid on top of a regular GPS street map... Thus using a regular street map with your specific area made to really stand out.

 

If your somewhat computer savy, not to hard to do, once you get past the learning curve. You can find a lot of information on gpsfiledepot on how to do it.

 

All of this will only work on Garmin gpses - Nuvi or handhelds and does best on handhelds. You can see some of my custom ATV maps on gpsfiledepot.com to get an idea, they are all made to be used in conjunction with another map at the same time.

 

You can PM me if you want more information.

 

Edit - something else to consider is using a $100 tablet and a GPS app with your streets as .GPX tracks color coded.

Edited September 19, 2014 by eaparks

[+TriciaG]

FYI, Streets & Trips is discontinued: http://www.microsoft.com/streets/en-us/ so using it probably isn't a long-term option.

Edited September 19, 2014 by TriciaG

[+Walts Hunting]

Try importing that same gpx file into basecamp to eliminate any extra work.

[+splashy]

There are good free available maps available.

 

You would NEED to learn how to use Basecamp, if you want to make your route or track at home on your computer.

 

Buy a Garmin Montana or Oregon 600 model, load the map and route or track in the Gps and run the route* or just follow the track* without snow to be sure that's the right one.

 

Montana and Or 600 models have a so called Nuvi screen, where the Montana is large and Or a bit smaller

 

Queens map @ http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

 

*route is navigation from A > B > C with

*track is a dotted line on your screen, but very useable

[+PeoriaBill]

Sad to hear the MS Streets and Trips will no longer available. I have bought the program every year it was available. Hopefully, someone will give it a second life. The alternative to ST is the Delorme Maps w/ a GPS locater. I'm not too familiar with it, but I guess I will have to learn.

Sad in Peoria

Peoria Bill :>)

[+Mitragorz]

Sounds to me like the perfect need for a custom vector map, made transparent so the street areas you are contracted to plow are custom colored using a .typ file. This custom map with, let's say... The color of your choice is used for your areas to plow are overlaid on top of a regular GPS street map... Thus using a regular street map with your specific area made to really stand out.

 

If your somewhat computer savy, not to hard to do, once you get past the learning curve. You can find a lot of information on gpsfiledepot on how to do it.

 

All of this will only work on Garmin gpses - Nuvi or handhelds and does best on handhelds. You can see some of my custom ATV maps on gpsfiledepot.com to get an idea, they are all made to be used in conjunction with another map at the same time.

 

You can PM me if you want more information.

 

Edit - something else to consider is using a $100 tablet and a GPS app with your streets as .GPX tracks color coded.

 

An overlay would be a start, but unless I was able to get turn-by-turn directions, it may be more confusing than anything else. We drive and re-drive streets over the course of a route, cross streets we already plowed... It'd be tough to tell where to turn and when.

 

Try importing that same gpx file into basecamp to eliminate any extra work.

 

Basecamp won't read S&T's GPX files... Apparently they're not as "clean" as they should be. Lots of missing info and invalid sections that Basecamp needs.

 

There are good free available maps available.

 

You would NEED to learn how to use Basecamp, if you want to make your route or track at home on your computer.

 

Buy a Garmin Montana or Oregon 600 model, load the map and route or track in the Gps and run the route* or just follow the track* without snow to be sure that's the right one.

 

Montana and Or 600 models have a so called Nuvi screen, where the Montana is large and Or a bit smaller

 

Queens map @ http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/

 

*route is navigation from A > B > C with

*track is a dotted line on your screen, but very useable

Thanks for that! When I tried to create a new route in Basecamp, it told me that I couldn't with the current map, and I didn't feel like spending $$$ on another map. This helps a lot. I downloaded a small map, and it looked promising. I'm downloading a local map so I can create a small test route to help me get the hang of it, before I start messing around with the massively-complicated plow routes.

 

If I make a GPX route in Basecamp, I'll be able to upload it to a Nuvi? And get turn-by-turn directions to the points in the order that I create them? That's the most important thing.

 

Thanks again.

[+splashy]

I was talking about gps models with a Nuvi SCREEN

However you could upload a TRACK to a Garmin NUVI and have it visible on the Nuvi.

 

You can create a track with Basecamp very easy.

 

AFAIK Nuvi's don't do imported routes. Only routes from A > B

 

If I'm wrong people will correct me.

[+Mitragorz]

So I made a small route in Basecamp around my neighborhood. In Basecamp, it looks all good:

 

 

I uploaded it to my Colorado, and it only shows point-to-point, it's not following the roads, and it doesn't necessarily follow the points in the order I created I created them.

 

 

I have the North American City Navigator map loaded onto my Colorado when I try this. I thought that's what gave the Colorado the ability to give directions, but maybe I misunderstood.

 

Like I said before, the I'm only using the Colorado to test all this stuff out... I'd like to get an actual in-can nav GPS to do the actual work while I drive.

[+Mitragorz]

I was talking about gps models with a Nuvi SCREEN

However you could upload a TRACK to a Garmin NUVI and have it visible on the Nuvi.

 

You can create a track with Basecamp very easy.

 

AFAIK Nuvi's don't do imported routes. Only routes from A > B

 

If I'm wrong people will correct me.

 

I gotcha. The Montana is the bigger of the two, so that'd what I'd be interested in. If I can upload a custom route, mount the thing to my windshield, and have it walk me through my snowplow route, I'll be happy.

 

I'm amazed that this isn't something that easier to do. Or maybe that's just because I haven't gotten it yet.

 

EDIT:

 

Just stumbled upon this one the Garmin website:

 

How do I access routes transferred from the computer on a nuvi, LIVE, dezl, Camper/RV, or zumo device?

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09/19/2014

Routes can be created on the computer in programs such as BaseCamp1 or MapQuest, and then transferred to certain models of nuvi, LIVE, dezl, Camper/RV, or zumo devices.

 

Once the created routes have been transferred, you may access them on the device. On certain models, the routes must be imported before they can be accessed.

 

Maybe there's hope for the Nuvi afterall.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Mitragorz

[+Chrysalides]

Did you switch the Colorado to driving mode?

[+Mitragorz]

Doh...

 

That definitely helped. I don't know if it's going to do what I want, though, bc when I start the route, it's skipping the first leg, which is supposed to be down that road in the middle.

 

 

Maybe it's trying to find the most "efficient", or shortest, or quickest route instead of the order in which I want to proceed to the points?

 

Actually, as I'm typing this, I thought I'd scroll through the options. I changed the "Routing Guidance Method" from "On Road For Time" to "Off Road." Now that middle road there is highlighted, so maybe it's all good now. I'll give it a try in the morning.

 

Thanks for the help, you guys have saved me a lot of hair loss so far

[+Walts Hunting]

This issue has come up before particularly in the Montana Wiki. Once you put the route in it tries to take you to the next point by its own definition of what is best. I run into it all the time on my Garmin Edge 810 with CN NA on my bicycle. I just ride where I know I was headed anyhow and it eventually gets back in sync.

[user13371]

... you could upload a TRACK to a Garmin NUVI and have it visible on the Nuvi.

This is pretty much what I do to make bicycle cue sheets for my eTrex 20. Tracks in GOX files are quite a bit simpler and in my experience more portable between different software packages and devices. But you have to watch and follow the line - it's not gonna say " Tuen left in 50 feet."

 

Good enough to follow a bike route, not sure about a plow.

[+splashy]

To solve the routestart problem you could add an extra waypoint very near the start of the track/route.

Navigate to this waypoint from your starting point then navigate your route.

 

Once you done it a few times you know how it works and can do it with your eyes closed.

 

You might need to change the Basecamp setting

 

Edit > options > Always match route to the map on my device (just try what works best.

 

Be aware that Gps satellite signals might be bad to very bad in extreme weather, like (snow) storms.

Edited September 20, 2014 by splashy

[39_Steps]

Nuvis are not going to do the job because they are designed to re-calculate routes every time you miss a turn. No way to disable automatic recalculation. Zumos might work if they have ability to disable automatic recalculation of a multi shape point read only route created with an identical street vector map from BaseCamp. Same with Garmin handhelds, although you would lose audio typically.

 

Delorme Street Atlas could do the job up to 100 added vias effortlessly. Delorme Topo would be much better due to added features, including features to send read only route files to Delorme's PN-60. Windows Computer required for audible turn by turn directions with Delorme.

 

Ideal routing device on windshield would support turn by turn audible directions from a read only route containing many shape points, plus display a confidence building route line in field of view.

 

Listen to Sussamb. His posts show pretty good knowledge of the Garmin product capabilities.

[+Mitragorz]

Nuvis are not going to do the job because they are designed to re-calculate routes every time you miss a turn.]

 

But if I'm making a waypoint at each intersection, I shouldn't be missing any turns, right? As long as they can navigate to each point in order, I should be good to go.

 

It just seems like this should be a much easier task than it's winding up to be. It seems silly that I can't just create my own route, download it to a GPS, and have it navigate said route.

[39_Steps]

There are some tricks for unambiguously adding the waypoint past the next turn point or two that will cut down on the total number of shape points required. Nonetheless, automatic route recalculation is undesirable for you purposes.

 

But yes, what you hope to do is relatively easy with the right combination of computer apps, gps devices, and route file handling. Colorado might work with Basecamp to do what you need.

 

Most Nuvis really cannot use more than one added waypoint per route. However the latest models with support of up to 29 strategically placed waypoints per "trip" could be very useful in a blizzard in conjunction with paper maps and local knowledge. Just be sure that you know the difference between the gps leading you and you leading the constantly recalculating gps.

Edited September 21, 2014 by 39_Steps

[39_Steps]

Most Nuvis really cannot use more than one added waypoint per route.

 

Actually while that may have been true a while back most nuvis now come with trip planner so the number that can add more than one waypoint is ever increasing, although there are still a couple of newer ones for which that is true.

 

@OP Provided you don't miss a turn it should be perfectly possible to do what you want with a nuvi. There is a limitation though of 30 (29?) waypoints in a 'trip' but you can also have many more shaping points. Seems to me like you have time to plan this so with a little pre-planning a nuvi should work for you.

Thank you for the input Sussamb. I do have the latest Delorme Street Atlas 2014 as well a current Garmin Nuvi56 with Trip Planner. Both products are very good. I hope that the Original Poster saves $50 or so for the Delorme App bundled with a GPS USB receiver. Before the first snowflake falls, he may come to appreciate the Do Not Recalculate option in his snowplow cab.

[+splashy]

Many responders have own input how and what to do and what unit to use.

 

The Op has a Colorado and obviously doesn't want to change that, also he asks for a cheap free map. Well the map is no problem.

I still believe the track (made at home on a computer) or just made by driving this track yourself now, is the best solution.

 

Why?? A track, if good, is always there without any error, yes you won't have any left right indications, but once you are used to it you will be fine.

[+New Jersey TJ]

Many responders have own input how and what to do and what unit to use.

 

The Op has a Colorado and obviously doesn't want to change that, also he asks for a cheap free map. Well the map is no problem.

I still believe the track (made at home on a computer) or just made by driving this track yourself now, is the best solution.

 

Why?? A track, if good, is always there without any error, yes you won't have any left right indications, but once you are used to it you will be fine.

 

This is just off the top of my head, but I'm thinking that after the track has been created, you could draw a map overlay containing arrows for the turns.

[+Mitragorz]

Thank you for the input Sussamb. I do have the latest Delorme Street Atlas 2014 as well a current Garmin Nuvi56 with Trip Planner. Both products are very good. I hope that the Original Poster saves $50 or so for the Delorme App bundled with a GPS USB receiver. Before the first snowflake falls, he may come to appreciate the Do Not Recalculate option in his snowplow cab.

 

Can you give me a little more info on that Delorme setup?

 

Many responders have own input how and what to do and what unit to use.

 

The Op has a Colorado and obviously doesn't want to change that, also he asks for a cheap free map. Well the map is no problem.

I still believe the track (made at home on a computer) or just made by driving this track yourself now, is the best solution.

 

Why?? A track, if good, is always there without any error, yes you won't have any left right indications, but once you are used to it you will be fine.

 

Actually, I'm only using the Colorado to test this stuff out. I'm looking for a Nuvi or something similar when it comes down to it. And driving these routes beforehand is totally out of the question... There are 11 districts with as many as 10 zones each. I'd have to literally drive down every single street in queens. Making up the routes from my couch is much easier, and a lot cheaper

[39_Steps]

Actually, I'm only using the Colorado to test this stuff out. I'm looking for a Nuvi or something similar when it comes down to it. And driving these routes beforehand is totally out of the question... There are 11 districts with as many as 10 zones each. I'd have to literally drive down every single street in queens. Making up the routes from my couch is much easier, and a lot cheaper

Suggestion:

1}While reposing on the couch, create a waypoint 50ft from each end of each and every street range to be plowed. Keep them in a separate GPX file by zone, if desired. Get your competitors to help. Name Waypoints adequately. Why 50ft minimum, but less than halfway? Routing. Also gps signal might be +/- 40 feet in blizzard.

 

2)[Edit]Include both of these two waypoints as Stops per street per route/trip. In some instances only One Stop per street will be required. Having named Stops at each end of each plowed street will make it easier to visualize missed streets in Route Directions. Minimize use of Waypoints (vias,stops) at intersections. Use mid-street wraparound placement of points instead.

 

3)[Edit] If you choose to try Delorme apps, please upgrade purchase to Topo10, Not SA. Topo is much more suitable for purposes of this thread. Topo10 has later file format. Topo 10 handles Garmin Base Camp and Nuvi GPX files better.

 

[Edit]Nuvi 55 with Trip Planner is good for practice and for creating well named Stops on couch. Delorme Topo10 on desktop is much better in experienced hands. Topo's 100 Stops per route may suffice for up to 50 plowed streets per route. Nuvi's 29/30 Stops per "trip" will limit each "trip" to perhaps a dozen plowed streets. Garmin's Base Camp is still somewhat in Beta from what I have read, but I have little experience with it except as a GPX file conversion utility.

 

Good luck again. Outa here on this forum on this topic, I hope.

Edited September 22, 2014 by 39_Steps