How to attach something to rock.

[+wvmarle]

Hi,

 

I'm trying to set up a multi with starting point next to waterfall, just above the waterline. Gotta swim to get there.

 

Now I'm having troubles placing something there, that stays there. It's a natural rock face, with some pieces of rock sticking out, cracks in it, etc. And I want to hang something off of it, like a metal strip with coordinates written on it.

 

Any advice on how I could make such an attachment? Probably best would be to use a crack in the rock. Drilling is out of the question.

 

I'd love to hear success (and failure) stories of such attachments!

 

Wouter.

[+cerberus1]

I'd probably use a large split shot, or even a triangular bank sinker, with a small piece of fishing wire (not line) and slide the split shot into a crack to catch.

Hang your strip off it.

A climbing nut (or chock) would probably end up swiped.

[+redwoodkestrel]

Z-spar is a two-part epoxy that can be applied to hold something on to rock. The rock can be wet, the epoxy can be applied underwater, and it will still harden. It's also a nice olive green color once the two parts are mixed, so it doesn't stand out too much. I use it all the time in my marine research.

 

However, I'd make sure I had permission to apply the epoxy before using it.

[+wvmarle]

Cracks at the place are small; millimeter size. I was not really thinking of epoxy or any fancy contraptions (that usually need much bigger cracks anyway), more something like a small wedge bolt or even a simple screw or rivet.

 

For extra complication: it's next to the water, only access is via the water, and attachment has to be done while I am in the water, balancing on a small underwater wedge on a nearly vertical wall. So need one hand to keep my balance. Well, can lie half out of the water on the rocks. Tricky overall.

[+redwoodkestrel]

Cracks at the place are small; millimeter size. I was not really thinking of epoxy or any fancy contraptions (that usually need much bigger cracks anyway), more something like a small wedge bolt or even a simple screw or rivet.

 

For extra complication: it's next to the water, only access is via the water, and attachment has to be done while I am in the water, balancing on a small underwater wedge on a nearly vertical wall. So need one hand to keep my balance. Well, can lie half out of the water on the rocks. Tricky overall.

 

I don't see any way of attaching a bolt or a screw to rock without drilling. I've attached both to rocks in tidepool areas and I've always had to drill first, then use a plastic anchor in the hole to screw my bolt or screw into.

 

I'd still say the epoxy would be easiest - you mix the two parts in your hand with some water (it's like putty), so you could do that before swimming over (just holding the mixed epoxy in your hand), stick some on the rock and then stick your tag/strip/etc. to it. It's less invasive than drilling, which might be important if you need to get permission. Just my $0.02.

[+wvmarle]

I don't see any way of attaching a bolt or a screw to rock without drilling. I've attached both to rocks in tidepool areas and I've always had to drill first, then use a plastic anchor in the hole to screw my bolt or screw into.

 

I'd still say the epoxy would be easiest - you mix the two parts in your hand with some water (it's like putty), so you could do that before swimming over (just holding the mixed epoxy in your hand), stick some on the rock and then stick your tag/strip/etc. to it. It's less invasive than drilling, which might be important if you need to get permission. Just my $0.02.

My idea was to use an existing crack to wedge a screw in. Something like that. A rivet wedged in a crack might also get stuck really tightly. I'd love to hear from people who tried just that.

 

Actually I tried to use quick-set cement, but it appears gone - first to go search that cache (a few weeks after placing) reported they couldn't find anything. And they did search at the correct spot so it must be gone. Rocks there are really slippery... used some steel wool to clean it up before applying the cement... so even the epoxy would have to go in a cavity or so to have something to hold on to. A rivet wedged in a crack might also get stuck really tightly.

 

Maybe I should have a look at the hardware store, see what they have. It's not a place that I go often, it's not far from home but the only regular transport is a minibus that runs once every two hours... and a more frequent bus on Sundays.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Sounds to me like you're trying to do the kind of thing Land Managers fear about Our Hobby.

Permanent attachments, drilling, cementing, etc. to natural features make me shudder.

 

Sorry, but that's my opinion. I wouldn't put out such a cache.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I wouldn't drill or glue anything. Can't you just put a lock n lock or match container there, perhaps tethered with some fishing line?

[+wvmarle]

Sounds to me like you're trying to do the kind of thing Land Managers fear about Our Hobby.

Permanent attachments, drilling, cementing, etc. to natural features make me shudder.

Drilling is not an option to me. Looking for something that can still be removed or at least leaving minimal stuff behind. Hence my suggestion of bolts or rivets.

 

I wouldn't drill or glue anything. Can't you just put a lock n lock or match container there, perhaps tethered with some fishing line?

 

Well, the actual problem is: where to attach the other end of that fishing line to?

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

I wouldn't drill or glue anything. Can't you just put a lock n lock or match container there, perhaps tethered with some fishing line?

 

Well, the actual problem is: where to attach the other end of that fishing line to?

 

Can you tie the fishing line around a rock?

[+cerberus1]

 

I wouldn't drill or glue anything. Can't you just put a lock n lock or match container there, perhaps tethered with some fishing line?

 

Well, the actual problem is: where to attach the other end of that fishing line to?

 

Can you tie the fishing line around a rock?

I thought I gave you a decent, problem-free option from the beginning.

- Guess it didn't sound tech enough.

We've been using bank sinkers and lead shot with wire loops attached for hanging towels and clothes while swimming in quarries for years.

Keeps chiggers off and no surprises underneath when you pick up your shirt.

Sometimes I'll use one to keep my rope bag off the ground (from ticks and ants in wooded areas).

Works just like a climbing nut (non weight bearing) at no cost.

[+wvmarle]

 

I thought I gave you a decent, problem-free option from the beginning.

- Guess it didn't sound tech enough.

We've been using bank sinkers and lead shot with wire loops attached for hanging towels and clothes while swimming in quarries for years.

Keeps chiggers off and no surprises underneath when you pick up your shirt.

Sometimes I'll use one to keep my rope bag off the ground (from ticks and ants in wooded areas).

Works just like a climbing nut (non weight bearing) at no cost.

Can you give me some photos or so, as I have no idea what those things you are talking about are, let alone how it would work.

 

Lead shot, that sounds to me like something to do with guns. If so, that's quite unique American - most of the world doesn't have guns all over the place.

[+cerberus1]

PM sent.

[+Don_J]

 

I wouldn't drill or glue anything. Can't you just put a lock n lock or match container there, perhaps tethered with some fishing line?

 

Well, the actual problem is: where to attach the other end of that fishing line to?

 

Can you tie the fishing line around a rock?

I thought I gave you a decent, problem-free option from the beginning.

- Guess it didn't sound tech enough.

We've been using bank sinkers and lead shot with wire loops attached for hanging towels and clothes while swimming in quarries for years.

Keeps chiggers off and no surprises underneath when you pick up your shirt.

Sometimes I'll use one to keep my rope bag off the ground (from ticks and ants in wooded areas).

Works just like a climbing nut (non weight bearing) at no cost.

 

You do realize that some of us have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

A quick search on "bank sinker" and I think I get the idea. This would probably be the least intrusive method and could be easily removed when the time comes.

[+cerberus1]

Sorry, ran outta time and had to scoot.

A climbing nut (or chock) acts like a wedge in crevices and cracks and used as a climbing aid.

A bank sinker, with it's many shapes (also can be trimmed with a knife, since it's lead) and an attached wire or wire loop would act the same at little cost.

[+Kryten]

Cache placement guideline #4

 

"Caches are placed so that the surrounding environment, whether natural or human-made, is safe from intentional or unintentional harm. Property must not be damaged or altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find."

 

A cache implementing this proposal would soon get archived.

[+wvmarle]

Cache placement guideline #4

 

"Caches are placed so that the surrounding environment, whether natural or human-made, is safe from intentional or unintentional harm. Property must not be damaged or altered to provide a hiding place, clue, or means of logging a find."

 

A cache implementing this proposal would soon get archived.

 

If you want to interpret it really strict, then heaps of caches should be archived.

 

All those bird houses attached with a nail, numerous rocks moved around for geopiles, caches that are off-trail and need you to trample some plants or push aside a bush risking to break its branches, and so on. And how can a cache placement ever protect an area from "intentional harm" by others?

 

The attachment methods I am looking for are ideally reversible, so that in the future I may remove it.

[AZcachemeister]

I was going to go there and say that if the epoxy wouldn't hold, you would probably need to do a more 'aggressive' site preparation that really wouldn't pass a truthful test of the guidelines.

 

Go ahead and drill a hole in the rock, and place a climbing anchor (expansion bolt with hanger).

You can always claim that someone else put it there.