Cache in a Rat Bait Station

[+The Rat]

The rat trap is in the same category with another recent find of mine: a padlock that was securing some construction equipment with a chain to a fence. There was no danger of poison, obviously, but it required pulling apart the lock, which, of course, had been modified. I posted what I thought to be a mildly worded, non-spoiler log to warn people that you could draw unwanted attention to yourself and create a bad impression of geocachers among the public from this one. The owner deleted my log without contacting me before or after the deletion, until I finally contacted him to ask why. His answer was that the cache had lots of favorites so I should log "consistently" if I wanted my find counted. Then 6 days after my find another geocacher got rousted by the police who thought he was stealing or vandalizing the property. It boggles my mind that so many cachers think these kinds of things are good ideas. The rat trap poses a danger to geocachers because they may encounter poison elsewhere if they get the idea that caches may be hidden in them, but to me the bigger problem on all these is that the general public and especially public entities find geocachers to be engaging in problem behavior and they ban geocaches from their parks, streets, etc. Of course a cacher who is yanking on padlocks everywhere he goes is liable to get arrested or confronted by an angry property owner, too.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

The rat trap is in the same category with another recent find of mine: a padlock that was securing some construction equipment with a chain to a fence.

Was the lock actually securing the equipment or added as an addition to the chain?

 

His answer was that the cache had lots of favorites so I should log "consistently" if I wanted my find counted.

Ha!...reminds me of that AT&T commercial..."We ALL bundle."

[hoosier guy]

I suppose they are trying to be mildly offensive. I know if there were caches with Muslim, Jewish, or 666 and pentagram symbolism on them, they would be considered offensive by the same people who put those out.

 

I suppose they could be expressing a sincere thought or opinion.

 

It could be, but since the same place is also cooincidentally selling fake hand grenades, perhaps it's more that they don't care if they are mildly offensive. It kind of reminds me of a past poster who was using a dead fetus as an avatar. There is a fine line between expressing thoughts and pushing beliefs. it's not really the content, but rather trying to force feed someone is what tends to annoy. It doesn't bother me, but in the past others have expressed distaste. Symbol worship is getting quite popular these days.

 

I have noticed that too. The people who make the case for condoms being good swag and the like.

[+The Rat]

The rat trap is in the same category with another recent find of mine: a padlock that was securing some construction equipment with a chain to a fence.

Was the lock actually securing the equipment or added as an addition to the chain?

Yes, the padlock was actually securing the equipment; it was the only lock on the chain. The equipment was just a cheap folding traffic control sign, but it was right next to a large utility or traffic control box of some kind, and had a sturdy chain, so it looked like it belonged to the utility co. or city for redirecting traffic when the box or nearby wires or tree work were being worked on.

[+The A-Team]

The rat trap is in the same category with another recent find of mine: a padlock that was securing some construction equipment with a chain to a fence.

Was the lock actually securing the equipment or added as an addition to the chain?

Yes, the padlock was actually securing the equipment; it was the only lock on the chain. The equipment was just a cheap folding traffic control sign, but it was right next to a large utility or traffic control box of some kind, and had a sturdy chain, so it looked like it belonged to the utility co. or city for redirecting traffic when the box or nearby wires or tree work were being worked on.

From the guidelines:

Think about how your container and the actions of geocachers seeking it will be perceived by the public. Although your cache will be hidden with landowner or land manager permission, concerned passersby who are unaware of geocaching, may view people searching the property as suspicious.

[Clan Riffster]

The rat trap is in the same category with another recent find of mine: a padlock that was securing some construction equipment with a chain to a fence.

Was the lock actually securing the equipment or added as an addition to the chain?

Yes, the padlock was actually securing the equipment; it was the only lock on the chain. The equipment was just a cheap folding traffic control sign, but it was right next to a large utility or traffic control box of some kind, and had a sturdy chain, so it looked like it belonged to the utility co. or city for redirecting traffic when the box or nearby wires or tree work were being worked on.

From the guidelines:

Think about how your container and the actions of geocachers seeking it will be perceived by the public. Although your cache will be hidden with landowner or land manager permission, concerned passersby who are unaware of geocaching, may view people searching the property as suspicious.

I think this deserves more than the traditional statue facepalm.

[+NeverSummer]

Whatever happened to clearly labeled geocache containers? Even some old "evil hide" micros or nanos still made it clear that they were a cache "back in the day".

 

Why wouldn't something possibly "dangerous" like a rat bait station have a small geocaching sticker on it?

 

Why wouldn't the padlock example above have some kind of identifier?

 

Because some cachers might think that they have to make the cache "camo" as natural as possible. These types of issues with non-labeled caches lead to bomb squad calls, confused and upset land managers, property owners, and the like.

 

Just put a sticker on it, people!

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Whatever happened to clearly labeled geocache containers? Even some old "evil hide" micros or nanos still made it clear that they were a cache "back in the day".

 

Why wouldn't something possibly "dangerous" like a rat bait station have a small geocaching sticker on it?

 

Why wouldn't the padlock example above have some kind of identifier?

 

Because some cachers might think that they have to make the cache "camo" as natural as possible. These types of issues with non-labeled caches lead to bomb squad calls, confused and upset land managers, property owners, and the like.

 

Just put a sticker on it, people!

 

The problem comes when cachers realize that not everyone labels. So a well labeled rat bait station is put in play and then all rat bait stations will be checked (by those with no self control). More than likely they will soon find another w/o labels and it's sprinkler head mania all over again.

[+NeverSummer]

Whatever happened to clearly labeled geocache containers? Even some old "evil hide" micros or nanos still made it clear that they were a cache "back in the day".

 

Why wouldn't something possibly "dangerous" like a rat bait station have a small geocaching sticker on it?

 

Why wouldn't the padlock example above have some kind of identifier?

 

Because some cachers might think that they have to make the cache "camo" as natural as possible. These types of issues with non-labeled caches lead to bomb squad calls, confused and upset land managers, property owners, and the like.

 

Just put a sticker on it, people!

 

The problem comes when cachers realize that not everyone labels. So a well labeled rat bait station is put in play and then all rat bait stations will be checked (by those with no self control). More than likely they will soon find another w/o labels and it's sprinkler head mania all over again.

I don't follow your logic.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

Whatever happened to clearly labeled geocache containers? Even some old "evil hide" micros or nanos still made it clear that they were a cache "back in the day".

 

Why wouldn't something possibly "dangerous" like a rat bait station have a small geocaching sticker on it?

 

Why wouldn't the padlock example above have some kind of identifier?

 

Because some cachers might think that they have to make the cache "camo" as natural as possible. These types of issues with non-labeled caches lead to bomb squad calls, confused and upset land managers, property owners, and the like.

 

Just put a sticker on it, people!

 

The problem comes when cachers realize that not everyone labels. So a well labeled rat bait station is put in play and then all rat bait stations will be checked (by those with no self control). More than likely they will soon find another w/o labels and it's sprinkler head mania all over again.

I don't follow your logic.

Let me try again...Joe Responsible Cacher puts out a rat bait cache w/ a GC sticker affixed. A few folks think it's awesome and copy it w/o labels. Pretty soon they become common and cachers start messing with then whenever they are close to GZ. Now, Joe was very responsible by putting a label on his, but every cacher is responsible for refraining from hides that will so obviously lead to bad practices down the road. That last part is simply my opinion.

[+The A-Team]

Whatever happened to clearly labeled geocache containers? Even some old "evil hide" micros or nanos still made it clear that they were a cache "back in the day".

 

Why wouldn't something possibly "dangerous" like a rat bait station have a small geocaching sticker on it?

 

Why wouldn't the padlock example above have some kind of identifier?

 

Because some cachers might think that they have to make the cache "camo" as natural as possible. These types of issues with non-labeled caches lead to bomb squad calls, confused and upset land managers, property owners, and the like.

 

Just put a sticker on it, people!

 

The problem comes when cachers realize that not everyone labels. So a well labeled rat bait station is put in play and then all rat bait stations will be checked (by those with no self control). More than likely they will soon find another w/o labels and it's sprinkler head mania all over again.

I don't follow your logic.

The problem with the rat bait stations isn't that they're unlabelled, but that they set a precedent. Cachers young and old will be taught that caches may be hidden inside rat bait stations, which can lead to dangerous interactions with non-caching-related bait stations that a seeker may think is just an unlabelled cache hiding spot. If every potentially-dangerous cache container was labelled, it wouldn't be a problem, but we all know this isn't the case.

[+NeverSummer]

The problem with the rat bait stations isn't that they're unlabelled, but that they set a precedent. Cachers young and old will be taught that caches may be hidden inside rat bait stations, which can lead to dangerous interactions with non-caching-related bait stations that a seeker may think is just an unlabelled cache hiding spot. If every potentially-dangerous cache container was labelled, it wouldn't be a problem, but we all know this isn't the case.

But, isn't cacher education a theme here? Why couldn't caches that are issues just be noted with Notes, NM or NA logs?

 

If a cache is causing damage to other items in the area, it is against the guidelines. If a cache listing doesn't provide enough information for a cache that is unlabelled as to prevent damage to other (like) items, it should be addressed. If a cache itself might be mistaken for something dangerous, it should be labelled.

 

A paradigm shift may have happened where people are hiding more "evil" or "difficult" caches in environments that get a "Duh!" moment of enlightenment from the cache. There are lots of tools at the disposal of cache owners to make sure to follow guidelines and to create a cache that won't be suspicious or cause damage.

 

-Cache titles can give subtle hints.

-D/T ratings can give context.

-Coordinates can get you to within 8 or so feet.

-Descriptions can allude to the container type or hide area

-Hints can (and IMO, should) give the person searching enough information to be nudged over the edge to find a cache if they can connect enough of the other dots.

 

What might need to happen is a shift back to using the tools at our disposal to stop collateral damage, injury, or bomb scares. But, that takes all of us to work together. Whereas, making a stink about a rat bait container being a bad cache container and making subtle allusions to an informal "ban" on them is a simpler way to "handle the problem", isn't it? Hmmm...

[+tozainamboku]

I've gone hiking and watched in horror as someone sticks their arm under a rock without first checking for critters there. The problem is there are stupid people. There are people who will try to open rat bait stations even if they've never heard of a cache camouflaged as one. And of course some who may avoid bait stations now but would look in every one that was near a cache once they found out that they might be there.

 

The disclaimer says "Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache."

 

I don't think we need to ban a whole category of camouflage because some people are stupid or because some people don't read the disclaimer.

 

If you see a rat bait station, or a sprinkler, or an electrical junction box near ground zero, it may be the cache but it may also be the real thing. It's up to the cache seeker to exercise the proper caution.

 

That said, some people have expressed concern that a child will see their parent find a cache inside a bait station. There is the possibility that after that the child will be prone to check rat bait stations thinking they're likely hiding places for caches. My first response is that it's the parents responsibility to let the child now that real bait stations contain poison and should never be handled.

 

However since there are stupid people, it goes without saying there are stupid parents. Rather than seeing a child harmed, perhaps this and other camouflage that might endanger the child of a stupid parent should not be used. However, I'm not sure where the line should be drawn. Given the risky behaviors I've seen from several adults in the pursuit of a cache, perhaps children of stupid parents should simply not be allowed to go geocaching.

[+Mudfrog]

I've gone hiking and watched in horror as someone sticks their arm under a rock without first checking for critters there. The problem is there are stupid people. There are people who will try to open rat bait stations even if they've never heard of a cache camouflaged as one. And of course some who may avoid bait stations now but would look in every one that was near a cache once they found out that they might be there.

 

The disclaimer says "Cache seekers assume all risks involved in seeking a cache."

 

I don't think we need to ban a whole category of camouflage because some people are stupid or because some people don't read the disclaimer.

 

If you see a rat bait station, or a sprinkler, or an electrical junction box near ground zero, it may be the cache but it may also be the real thing. It's up to the cache seeker to exercise the proper caution.

 

That said, some people have expressed concern that a child will see their parent find a cache inside a bait station. There is the possibility that after that the child will be prone to check rat bait stations thinking they're likely hiding places for caches. My first response is that it's the parents responsibility to let the child now that real bait stations contain poison and should never be handled.

 

However since there are stupid people, it goes without saying there are stupid parents. Rather than seeing a child harmed, perhaps this and other camouflage that might endanger the child of a stupid parent should not be used. However, I'm not sure where the line should be drawn. Given the risky behaviors I've seen from several adults in the pursuit of a cache, perhaps children of stupid parents should simply not be allowed to go geocaching.

 

+1

[+Ms Maddy]

I came across a cache this week that was on an actual gravesite in a cemetery and disguised as a small silver pot of dusty fabric flowers.

 

Cacher buddy and I discussed if we should move the cache to a spot nearby. We were horrified when we realised that had to be the container!

 

Sometimes commonsense is sadly lacking in cache placement

[+Don_J]

At one time I would investigate rat bait stations as a possible geocache. I figured it was simply a matter of time before someone thought of using one.

 

However some years ago I decided that I was no longer interested in geocaching in the sorts of places that needed rat bait stations. So if I were to encounter one today I'd be pretty sure it's the cache because it would be so out of place.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking. Do I really want to be looking for a cache where rats live? As soon as I see a bait station I pretty much hop in the car and head for the next one.

[+dprovan]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Do I really want to be looking for a cache where rats live? As soon as I see a bait station I pretty much hop in the car and head for the next one.

Interesting. Rat traps are ubiquitous around here in the suburbs east of the San Francisco Bay. I'd have to ignore a lot of caches if I ran off every time I saw one.

[+Don_J]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Do I really want to be looking for a cache where rats live? As soon as I see a bait station I pretty much hop in the car and head for the next one.

Interesting. Rat traps are ubiquitous around here in the suburbs east of the San Francisco Bay. I'd have to ignore a lot of caches if I ran off every time I saw one.

 

I have seen my fair share of bait stations when I drove a donation collection truck. Mostly in landscaped areas of private apartment complexes. I have also seen them while caching, mostly behind restaurants that I would never consider actually eating at. I've decided that I don't want to be caching there either.

 

These are supposed to be locked and they take a special tool/key to open. Every one that I have seen has had a sticker on it with the company name and phone number of who placed it. It also has a warning asking that we call that number if we find it open. I've always assumed that there were ordinances that required this.

[+hzoi]

-Coordinates can get you to within 8 or so feet.

 

8 feet? Shazam. If only most actually did.

 

The problem with "clever urban camo" caches like rat bait stations, padlocks, power conduits, etc. is that they're normally in built-up environments, often abutting buildings. Which makes signal accuracy poor for both hider and finder.

[+ipodguy]

Doesn't bother me, but I'm basically a walking chemical anyway.