Is there REALLY a gps device better than the iPhone?

[+bunkerdave]

Not long after I started caching, a cacher went out to a little utility box and put his GPS unit on it. This was before anyone ever heard of SIRF or iPhone or even "mobile web"..the name of the cache was "Who's Right" and it was a virtual cache. I think it's still posted, as I can't see any reason it wouldn't be.

 

The idea was to go there and put your GPS in the exact spot, which was easy to do, since if you didn't, it would usually eventually slide off the utility box. So over the years, and as GPS technology increased and progressed, there got to be a LOT Of readings. I even went there with a few different units as I replaced my old ones, and posted new coordinates.

 

The cool thing was that over time, the CO would take all the readings that were posted and plot them on a graph, and rank those who had posted coordinates according to the averaged (mathematical average, not GPS average) coordinates based on ALL those posted. In this way, it was believed that it could be determined who had the "right" coordinates for that specific location. Another point of validity of this experiment is that all the readings were taken on different days, in different conditions, by unrelated parties (other than their affinity for geocaching.) Quite interesting, to me at least. The cache is in Utah, if anyone wants to look it up. If I ever find myself up there again with a few minutes to kill, I shall stop by and do a test with my iPhone 4 and my 60CSx, and my Oregon 550T. I'd like to see which one gets closest to the "right" coordinates.

 

That said, I use all three. The iPhone is an invaluable tool if only for knowing I have the current cache data. In years past I spent far too much time (any is too much) searching for caches that had several DNFs already posted on them, or were even disabled/archived. That doesn't happen anymore, and that's all thanks to the iPhone app. The 60CSx and the Oregon do seem to be more accurate, but really, once I get within about 20 feet of a cache the GPS device goes in a pocket and the eyeballs become the guidance system. Maybe it's just my bias, but if I need to check the coordinates and see where Ground Zero "actually" is, I still use the CSx. When I'm in the backcountry, I load the coordinates into the CSx and use it. I will save the cache page to the memory in the iPhone in case I need any information tho.

 

ANYHOW..I could go on much longer, but in my opinion, the iPhone is the hands down best for cache information access. (OR whatever smartphone you prefer). It does that best, so I use it for what it does best. The "real" GPS units do navigation best...so I use them for that. That said, my CSx and Oregon do NOT have satellite photos on them, which is almost essential for finding caches in the city, what with buildings and high walls and such hindering the "as the crow flies" approach we cachers are so fond of when in the outback. It's nice to be able to see where the cache is and determine the best way to get to the best parking location without all the trial and error I used to go through. Saves a lot of gas, as well. I also like having the CSx set on the arrow screen, navigating, and having the iPhone available for getting any informaton that might be helpful, without all the screen switching I'd have to do if i were limited to only using ONE unit.

 

Final point: It really doesn't matter which one you think is best. Use them all. Figure out which device does which operations the best, and use them for that.

[+UMainah]

I'm curious when you say you turn off your WiFi and 4G. Didn't know the iPhones had 4G yet.

 

Also, 4g came with the last iOS update.

 

Actually the only thing that changed with the latest OS update is the little cell service icon for AT&T iPhones 4S's. The iPhone doesn't have a LTE or WiMax chipset (the only two types of 4g networks in the US). Sadly, its just a marketing gimmick and speeds weren't increased with the update.

Here's some articles that explains what happened:

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2012/03/08/att-apple-hspa-lie/

http://www.theverge.com/2012/3/8/2853128/in-a-triumph-of-marketing-at-t-upgrades-apples-iphone-to-4g

Google "iphone 4s 4g update" and you'll probably get thousands of articles on the subject.

[+thebruce0]

@bunkerdave:

We have a good device testing cache around here as well, GC2B9X0 - interesting to see some people's results, and IMO a well thought out and detailed cache listing. It effectively compares official location listings of physical survey markers to device readings at those coordinates. Interesting to see when I did it the 3GS rarely ever reporting better than +/-17m (the next best was +/-9m occasionally iirc), though with the estimated center point consistently hovering around ~1-5m from the target waypoint (another reason I recommend map use whenever possible on a smartphone over distance/bearing with the compass)

 

Dave, is it GC3997? Looks like the last graph update was Feb 14/08. Would be nice to see how the more recent high end smartphones fair on that... (actually what would be more interesting would be to see the variation in reported readings taken with the same devices and different users!)

*contemplates a new cache listing *

[+JesandTodd]

... once I get within about 20 feet of a cache the GPS device goes in a pocket and the eyeballs become the guidance system...

 

Exactly!

[+_Shaddow_]

Regarding accuracy, there are errors in the GPS itself, such as satellite availability and geometry, multipath, and atmospheric conditions, so any device will vary day to day or even moment to moment. Even the location of your body in relation to the unit affects transmission of the signal since it's basically a big bag of water. Therefore taking different devices to benchmarks at different times and noting the error in location unfortunately isn't going to give comparable results.

[+thebruce0]

That's why GC3997 is interesting as it's an average of all readings, to take variations into account. In short, if you can't trust any GPS reading to be sufficiently accurate at any point, then it comes back to why even bother getting a reportedly higher accuracy device? Graphing overall averages per device helps gauge which device is more likely to be more accurate more often. Field testing over a much higher sample set over time.

It would be interesting to see graphed averages of all readings of various devices given the same physical location and various weather factors. I suppose "walter" the CO could do that with all the data he's collected since 2002... that would be quite a bit of work tho, heh

Edited May 9, 2012 by thebruce0

[+_Shaddow_]

For sure, interesting cache Over to how it applies to the topic at hand: note that weather and atmospheric conditions and weather are not necessarily the same thing, in only one of several reason a GPSr reading can be off. To have any kind of scientific results you'd have to test all of them at the same time therefore under the same conditions.

 

But I don't think accuracy is a hotly debated issue here. It's more about the other features, performances and physical characteristics of a given device. A few of the biggest and agreed upon differences seem to be satellite photos and internet access for the smartphones, and durability and battery life for a dedicated unit.

 

Anyone care to list others, perhaps separated by agreed upon or debated? It'd be fun to focus on and discuss each of them individually.

[+JesandTodd]

Well, I'd add consistently to the GPSr.

[+thebruce0]

Yes to the difference between weather and atmospheric conditions. But again as the sample set increases, aberrations and fluctuations among the various readings will become negligible for the final averagings, which is why those readings graphed per device would be interesting. Inaccurate readings, for whatever reason, would be overshadowed over time. but anyway....

 

A few of the biggest and agreed upon differences seem to be satellite photos and internet access for the smartphones, and durability and battery life for a dedicated unit.

Aye.

As for other differences, we could discuss others factors like weight, user friendliness, technical support, reliability, physical size, etc... many factors, each relevant only to the degree of anyone's comfort with them (obviously)

Edited May 9, 2012 by thebruce0

[+_Shaddow_]

but anyway....

Yes, anyway, please

 

As for other differences, we could discuss others factors like weight, user friendliness, technical support, reliability, physical size, etc... many factors, each relevant only to the degree of anyone's comfort with them

Seems to read: the iPhone is the best if you're a good enough user (like I am)

 

Perhaps there can be a discussion without you weighing in frequently and substantially with this shtick?

[+_Shaddow_]

Well, I'd add consistently to the GPSr.

I think that one will go to the debated side; personally, I agree with you

[+thebruce0]

Seriously? No comment. *sigh* You win. Goodbye, then.

[+JesandTodd]

Seems to read: the iPhone is the best if you're a good enough user (like I am)

 

Perhaps there can be a discussion without you weighing in frequently and substantially with this shtick?

 

Sigh...

 

I know that if I respond positively to the iphone in the forums that plenty of people, with little or no experience with the iphone, will gang up on me and do their best to tear me down. You can see evidence of it in this thread. I'm a big girl so I can take it. However, there are plenty of times when I let comments/threads slide because I just don't feel like telling people, over and over again how wrong they are...it gets old and tiring. But if I or Bruce don't weigh in, then the thread disintegrates into a din of misinformation. I know that if I was a newbie to these forums, I wouldn't dare weigh in.

 

I do my best to let other iphone users out there know that is can be done. Somebody has to say it....frequently.

 

But, there IS a difference in how one uses the iphone. It really makes a difference.

 

I would read your quote better as. "the iphone is just fine if you're a good enough user" (like I am) Lets leave the "like I am" as a mental thought that I say to myself.

[+JesandTodd]

Seriously? No comment. *sigh* You win. Goodbye, then.

 

I'm not sure if this is directed at me. I'm being terse because there are many people around me at work...

 

Bruce, you and I know a GPS is more consistant than the iphone. The iphone is a bit wildly and takes patience, which is why we say that the user makes a big difference in the perfomance and outcome.

 

You and I know how to use it

[+_Shaddow_]

Seems to read: the iPhone is the best if you're a good enough user (like I am)

 

Perhaps there can be a discussion without you weighing in frequently and substantially with this shtick?

 

Sigh...

 

I know that if I respond positively to the iphone in the forums that plenty of people, with little or no experience with the iphone, will gang up on me and do their best to tear me down. You can see evidence of it in this thread. I'm a big girl so I can take it. However, there are plenty of times when I let comments/threads slide because I just don't feel like telling people, over and over again how wrong they are...it gets old and tiring. But if I or Bruce don't weigh in, then the thread disintegrates into a din of misinformation. I know that if I was a newbie to these forums, I wouldn't dare weigh in.

 

I do my best to let other iphone users out there know that is can be done. Somebody has to say it....frequently.

 

But, there IS a difference in how one uses the iphone. It really makes a difference.

 

I would read your quote better as. "the iphone is just fine if you're a good enough user" (like I am) Lets leave the "like I am" as a mental thought that I say to myself.

That's an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered. From the outside, it generally looks like iPhone users place themselves and their phones above all others and can do no wrong. It's a generalization of course, and I won't say I get that vibe from you. Maybe the more vocal of those that fit that generalization skew the perspective for the rest.

 

Though I'm not sure why the iPhone is singled out over other smartphones, which seems to add to the generalization. If anything, it's about the app, not the device. Most new smartphones have touch screens, a decent processor, the same or comparable GPSr chip, fast enough data network for the task, etc.

 

It seems that we should be discussing smartphone apps vs dedicated unit not iPhone vs. everything else

[+_Shaddow_]

Seriously? No comment. *sigh* You win. Goodbye, then.

 

I'm not sure if this is directed at me. I'm being terse because there are many people around me at work...

 

Bruce, you and I know a GPS is more consistant than the iphone. The iphone is a bit wildly and takes patience, which is why we say that the user makes a big difference in the perfomance and outcome.

 

You and I know how to use it

I'm sure that was directed at me; I've been in his sights since my iPhone comment (joke).

[+JesandTodd]

That's an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered.

 

You should try being an iPhone user. It's brutal. I activate Siri and I'm an Ahole. I get onto iTunes and I'm being a snob. I bust out my iPhone at GZ and people roll their eyes. I speak positvely about the iPhone in the forums and I'm a fool, inexperienced, not serious, and a liar.

 

There's only one way to respond, and that's with a 'meh'. It's oldddddd. So old. Especially when most of the info is so very wrong.

[+_Shaddow_]

That's an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered.

 

You should try being an iPhone user. It's brutal. I activate Siri and I'm an Ahole. I get onto iTunes and I'm being a snob.

Unfortunately for you, many are. Or at least ones that want to be noticed, and therefore are

 

That's an interesting perspective that I hadn't considered.

I speak positvely about the iPhone in the forums and I'm a fool, inexperienced, not serious, and a liar.

I haven't seen or heard that myself, actually my experience has been just the opposite. In this forum topic for example.

 

From what I've seen from friends using it, it's a great device. There are other smartphones that are very good too.

[+_Shaddow_]

I'm reminded what I said when I first joined this topic.

 

BTW: this topic 'Is there REALLY a gps device better than the iPhone?' really sounds like something a troll would post.

 

I don't think the OP is one, or intended that, but wow, ask if something better than the iPhone? Everyone knows that iphone owners think it's the center of the universe

If you can ignore my failed attempt at humor, I meant that it's a passionate topic formed in a way to be unanswerable and will generate strong and likely heated discussion. I'm not at all surprised that this topic generated endless discussion then degraded.

 

I think the answer to the OPs question is: it's a matter of opinion. There, done

 

If we want to discuss differences in devices, a new topic should be started.

[+JesandTodd]

 

I haven't seen or heard that myself, actually my experience has been just the opposite. In this forum topic for example.

 

Have you read the whole thread ?

 

I digress. The fact is, the smartphone caching era started with the iphone. The iPhone was a $10 lifetime app that allowed me to get into an otherwise exclusive game. Prior to the smartphone, you had to invest in a gps, software, had to be technically savvy, and had to really, really invest a lot of prep time before going out and finding your ammo can.

 

The iphone changed all that. So many people who couldn't use their phones came and screwed it up for the rest of us. I do, indeed, have a micro in the woods, hidden with my iPhone (3gs) that I hid when I had about 50 finds. Perhaps I played a role as well...

 

I wish everyone knew how to use the app and knew their device well. Because some doufus will come up here and say "That POS never worked, had to go back to the gps" when I know darn well that they just didn't know how to use it. It gives my app, my iphone, and me, an iphone user, a bad name. And is allows all of those who poo-poo smartphone users to keep spewing their BS.

 

I dunno.

 

But. This. I will continue to chime in, when the same old tired misinformation shows up in yet another thread. I mean, I've found a lot of caches with my iphone. In the woods. Your caches even.

 

So, beck to the OP:Is there REALLY a gps device better than the iPhone?

Overall? Considering everything we've considered, discussed, debated? For all of that? Is there really anything better?

 

No.

[+_Shaddow_]

 

I haven't seen or heard that myself, actually my experience has been just the opposite. In this forum topic for example.

 

Have you read the whole thread ?

 

refer

 

Just joining this discussion; read through a lot of it, scanned the rest of it. Lots of strong feelings each way about which is best, which is funny because it's just a matter of opinion

 

 

The iPhone was a $10 lifetime app that allowed me to get into an otherwise exclusive game.

First, don't even get me started on the 'official' app.

Second, I think the price of an iPhone is much higher than even the 'high end' GPSrs so it seems odd to me to hear that the game was exclusive to you in $. But I can understand the higher cost of buying both.

Besides, when I first cached I didn't have a GPSr and instead used maps, so it can be done even without a unit for lots of caches.

 

Because some doufus will come up here and say "That POS never worked, had to go back to the gps" when I know darn well that they just didn't know how to use it. It gives my app, my iphone, and me, an iphone user, a bad name. And is allows all of those who poo-poo smartphone users to keep spewing their BS.

 

...

 

I will continue to chime in, when the same old tired misinformation shows up in yet another thread.

Personally, I've supported smartphone use throughout this discussion except for the very specific cases of extended hiking in areas without service or in areas with lots of longer trails where trail information is important in both picking a better route and getting out safely (the latter only because NW Trails is not yet available on smartphones).

 

I personally am not on the anti-smartphone bandwagon and don't understand it, as my experience with one is that they not only work well in most cases, even better due to the increase in available info (via data download)

 

My part here has been twofold: 1) the iPhone isn't necessarily better than any other smartphone for caching; 2) a dedicated GPSr with NW Trails, or similar, loaded is a better choice for very specific conditions.

 

If anyone has been taking a bashing here, it's been me.

Edited May 9, 2012 by _Shaddow_

[+JesandTodd]

My part here has been twofold: 1) the iPhone isn't necessarily better than any other smartphone; 2) a dedicated GPSr with NW Trails, or similar, loaded is a better choice for very specific conditions.

 

Absolutely. I can agree with this whole-heartedly.

 

If anyone has been taking a bashing here, it's been me.

 

I don't feel as if I've been bashing you.

If that's the case, then I apologize. That's certainly not what I wanted.

 

Perhaps its time I go back and re-read the thread. You are right, it is of troll quality in that it gets people 'in the ring', and it's tough to back down from a fight.

 

But, in those threads, both sides never come to any agreement or conclusion. I feel this thread is different. Well, I did.

[+_Shaddow_]

If anyone has been taking a bashing here, it's been me.

 

I don't feel as if I've been bashing you.

If that's the case, then I apologize. That's certainly not what I wanted.

 

Perhaps its time I go back and re-read the thread. You are right, it is of troll quality in that it gets people 'in the ring', and it's tough to back down from a fight.

 

But, in those threads, both sides never come to any agreement or conclusion. I feel this thread is different. Well, I did.

No not you at all. Also bashing is too strong of a word but it's along those lines

 

I would have to agree with that, overall this did turn out fairly well.

[+vballhjs]

As a total newbie and Iphone user I would appreciate any direction/tips on how to use my phone better for finding caches... Its been a bit frustrating for me to get close then have the distance jump all over the place, causing lots of second guessing... I'm totally open to getting an actual GPS device but figured I'd give it a go with my phone first and see how successful i was using it which has been 50/50 I'd say...

[+thebruce0]

Do you use the distance and bearing, or the map view? The latter can be much more helpful. Also, which model are you using?

Edited May 10, 2012 by thebruce0

[+JesandTodd]

When I get close, my garmin starts acting up too. When that happens, put the iPhone away and start looking.

[+_Shaddow_]

As a total newbie and Iphone user I would appreciate any direction/tips on how to use my phone better for finding caches... Its been a bit frustrating for me to get close then have the distance jump all over the place, causing lots of second guessing... I'm totally open to getting an actual GPS device but figured I'd give it a go with my phone first and see how successful i was using it which has been 50/50 I'd say...

 

Because of error in the system it can never determine the exact spot you are located and therefore, if you were to view them (your tracks) in map view, it will produce a bunch of relatively close grouping of data points as reading are taken. If you are close to the center of this grouping, the direction arrow, if your using it, and distance away to the targeted coordinates will seemingly jump around. All around you in fact, if you are very near.

 

Geocachers have developed ways to deal with that issue, including walking a distance away then looking at the distance and direction stats to the target to better estimate its location. Most do what JesandTodd do, they just start looking when they are that close.

[ll JK ll]

I posted on the first page and since then I've upgraded to a Delorme PN-60. I must say that even though the iphone app was great to start out with a dedicated GPSr has made a true difference.

 

Besides accuracy the main difference is battery life. This past Friday I did an all day caching run in my area, using my iphone only to take pics and post field notes. By late afternoon I was at 19-20% battery life. So you can imagine if I was using the map and GPS function my trip would've been cut short a lot sooner.

 

Another plus is being able to view multiple caches on my map at one time. When I zoom out I can see how many are on the current trail in relation to my current position and it makes planning a route much easier.

 

All in all I'm happy that I decided to get a dedicated GPSr. If you're an iphone user and think you'll be caching long term I would suggest you make the investment.

[+JesandTodd]

 

Another plus is being able to view multiple caches on my map at one time. When I zoom out I can see how many are on the current trail in relation to my current position and it makes planning a route much easier.

 

Ugh..yes, I totally agree here. Sometimes I add a wpt from one cache to another one just so I can see all the wpts while i'm navigating.

 

I wish I could see multiple wpts on my screen without having to do that!

[+thebruce0]

* In Geosphere (iOS) you can load pocket queries and can display up to 8000 caches at any one time.

* In Geosphere you can also quickly and easily create additional waypoints to be shown on the map and to navigate to.

* If you carry a AA external battery pack you can extend your battery life as long as you have extra batteries with you (rechargeable means no ongoing cost either)

* If you don't turn off the smartphone GPS when it's not in use, or take many photos or use data a lot for communicating with GC, the battery will drain faster (eg, store field notes offline for uploading later)

I can use my 4S for a day of caching easily when properly prepared, and collect an album of memorable photos and videos.

 

That said, no argument here - a dedicated GPS device can certainly have better battery life, can be faster, and be more accurate.

Choose whatever you feel more comfortable using.

Edited May 16, 2012 by thebruce0

[+_Shaddow_]

 

Another plus is being able to view multiple caches on my map at one time. When I zoom out I can see how many are on the current trail in relation to my current position and it makes planning a route much easier.

 

Ugh..yes, I totally agree here. Sometimes I add a wpt from one cache to another one just so I can see all the wpts while i'm navigating.

 

I wish I could see multiple wpts on my screen without having to do that!

The c:geo app for the Droid does that, though indirectly, much like the geocaching map display.

 

You've hit on the primary reason I use a GPSr if there any trails involved

 

[edited for spelling]

Edited May 16, 2012 by _Shaddow_

[+_Shaddow_]

* In Geosphere (iOS) you can load pocket queries and can display up to 8000 caches at any one time.

Same effort as GPSr

 

* In Geosphere you can also quickly and easily create additional waypoints to be shown on the map and to navigate to.

Same as GPSr

 

* If you carry a AA external battery pack you can extend your battery life as long as you have extra batteries with you (rechargeable means no ongoing cost either)

Extra expense and weight offsetting the extra cost in $ and weight and size carrying aspects for a dedicated unit.

 

I can use my 4S for a day of caching easily when properly prepared, and collect an album of memorable photos and videos.

Since I carry my smartphone anyway, and suspect that others do too, this is no different.

Also, I often carry a dedicated camera too. Lets not get started on that...

 

Choose whatever you feel more comfortable using.

I'm looking forward to hearing other people's opinion on what that means to them.

[+thebruce0]

Don't start this again. I'm not disagreeing.

[+_Shaddow_]

Don't start this again.

Actually, I was bringing it even.

 

I've also noticed that you have to up-talk the iphone (not smartphones in general) anytime there is a pro-dedicated unit post, just say'n.

 

I'm not disagreeing.

Not directly at least and with a little camo, usually at the end of the post.

 

It's ok for me to post a response to your post. Please be respectful and don't try to make it seem like I'm up to no good when I do so.

Edited May 16, 2012 by _Shaddow_

[+JesandTodd]

* In Geosphere (iOS) you can load pocket queries and can display up to 8000 caches at any one time.

* In Geosphere you can also quickly and easily create additional waypoints to be shown on the map and to navigate to.

* If you carry a AA external battery pack you can extend your battery life as long as you have extra batteries with you (rechargeable means no ongoing cost either)

* If you don't turn off the smartphone GPS when it's not in use, or take many photos or use data a lot for communicating with GC, the battery will drain faster (eg, store field notes offline for uploading later)

I can use my 4S for a day of caching easily when properly prepared, and collect an album of memorable photos and videos.

 

That said, no argument here - a dedicated GPS device can certainly have better battery life, can be faster, and be more accurate.

Choose whatever you feel more comfortable using.

 

I hiked 5 hrs the other day in the woods, and when I got back to the car my iphone was at 40%. I took a few pictures to boot, and never had to turn on my juice pack, which will give me 2 more full charges.

 

I left my data on as well so my husband could watch my movements online..,.

[+JesandTodd]

Don't start this again. I'm not disagreeing.

 

Don't start this again.

Actually, I was bringing it even.

 

I've also noticed that you have to up-talk the iphone (not smartphones in general) anytime there is a pro-dedicated unit post, just say'n.

 

I'm not disagreeing.

Not directly at least and with a little camo, usually at the end of the post.

 

It's ok for me to post a response to your post. Please be respectful and don't try to make it seem like I'm up to no good when I do so.

 

Oh boy...

 

Well, I've been bored at work lately (like for 12 months or so), and the boards have been rather quiet. My contentious spirit is somewhat pleased here...

[+_Shaddow_]

Don't start this again. I'm not disagreeing.

 

Don't start this again.

Actually, I was bringing it even.

 

I've also noticed that you have to up-talk the iphone (not smartphones in general) anytime there is a pro-dedicated unit post, just say'n.

 

I'm not disagreeing.

Not directly at least and with a little camo, usually at the end of the post.

 

It's ok for me to post a response to your post. Please be respectful and don't try to make it seem like I'm up to no good when I do so.

 

Oh boy...

 

Well, I've been bored at work lately (like for 12 months or so), and the boards have been rather quiet. My contentious spirit is somewhat pleased here...

 

lol we are here for you

 

Now if I had a job, I certainly wouldn't be putting so much effort into something so small... guess I'm bored too

[+JesandTodd]

 

You've hit on the primary reason I use a GPSr if there any trails involved

 

TBH, it's no biggie if there aren't mystery or multis present. Then I leave my 'live' tab on the overall trail, and I run the cache that I'm seeking under the saved tab. It's only an issue if i'm searching more than one mystery/multi.

 

 

Extra expense and weight offsetting the extra cost in $ and weight and size carrying aspects for a dedicated unit.

 

 

My external battery is actually a phone case and still fits in my back pocket just fine, with no noticeable weight diff. the cost of it was still less than my garmin, albeit I found it for a song...

[+JesandTodd]

lol we are here for you

 

Thank you. I am near the point of driving needles into my eyes here ... We have a running joke "dang, I've reached the end of the internet again..."

 

Now if I had a job, I certainly wouldn't be putting so much effort into something so small... guess I'm bored too

 

I was wondering

 

I've also noticed that you have to up-talk the iphone (not smartphones in general) anytime there is a pro-dedicated unit post, just say'n.

 

 

That's me actually. If you read the whole thread you'd know theBruce is a brandless soul...(I am not).

Edited May 16, 2012 by JesandTodd

[+_Shaddow_]

 

You've hit on the primary reason I use a GPSr if there any trails involved

 

TBH, it's no biggie if there aren't mystery or multis present. Then I leave my 'live' tab on the overall trail, and I run the cache that I'm seeking under the saved tab. It's only an issue if i'm searching more than one mystery/multi.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Having the cache waypoints shown versus the trails helps to determine the best routes to the caches; also get to back out again.

 

Extra expense and weight offsetting the extra cost in $ and weight and size carrying aspects for a dedicated unit.

 

My external battery is actually a phone case and still fits in my back pocket just fine, with no noticeable weight diff. the cost of it was still less than my garmin, albeit I found it for a song...

 

You got me wondering so just weighed my 60CSx. It comes in at only 5.7 oz without batteries and two AA Duracell weigh 1.7 oz so just under a half pound total (7.4 oz). The batteries is about 23% of the total weight (which you would also carry in the extra battery pack, not including the weight of the pack itself).

 

My phone with battery is 6.0 oz. Do you have a scale nearby so you can weigh the iphone? I'd be interested in how much it weights. I'm guessing less.

[+JesandTodd]

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Having the cache waypoints shown versus the trails helps to determine the best routes to the caches; also get to back out again.

 

Let me get back to on that...

 

My phone with battery is 6.0 oz. Do you have a scale nearby so you can weigh the iphone? I'd be interested in how much it weights. I'm guessing less.

 

Baby scale...I'll check.

[+thebruce0]

Am I not allowed to provide smartphone-specific recommendations to perceived usage dissatisfaction without being blasted for promoting the smartphone and criticizing GPSrs? Especially when I repeatedly agree that a dedicated GPSr can be better than a smartphone?

 

As Jessandtodd said earlier:

I will continue to chime in, when the same old tired misinformation shows up in yet another thread.

Except in this case I didn't respond to misinformation, only what appeared to be a common usage frustration. I simply offered an alternative means to go about the same business, without saying anything negative about other devices, or implying that choosing them is a Bad Thing. Please stop demonizing me.

 

Admittedly, I'm certainly not as diplomatic in here as Jessandtodd

 

I hiked 5 hrs the other day in the woods, and when I got back to the car my iphone was at 40%. I took a few pictures to boot, and never had to turn on my juice pack, which will give me 2 more full charges.

 

I left my data on as well so my husband could watch my movements online..,.

haha Do you track your hiking routes occasionally too? I need to get in the habit of doing that more often to help with getting the many local trails around here on openmaps.

[+_Shaddow_]

lol we are here for you

 

Thank you. I am near the point of driving needles into my eyes here ... We have a running joke "dang, I've reached the end of the internet again..."

 

I've also noticed that you have to up-talk the iphone (not smartphones in general) anytime there is a pro-dedicated unit post, just say'n.

 

That's me actually. If you read the whole thread you'd know theBruce is a brandless soul...(I am not).

I come to a different conclusion

[+_Shaddow_]

Am I not allowed to provide smartphone-specific recommendations to perceived usage dissatisfaction without being blasted for promoting the smartphone and criticizing GPSrs? Especially when I repeatedly agree that a dedicated GPSr can be better than a smartphone?

 

As Jessandtodd said earlier:

I will continue to chime in, when the same old tired misinformation shows up in yet another thread.

Except in this case I didn't respond to misinformation, only what appeared to be a common usage frustration. I simply offered an alternative means to go about the same business, without saying anything negative about other devices, or implying that choosing them is a Bad Thing. Please stop demonizing me.

hmmm, yet my post was no different then yours and you respond with 'don't start this again.' Taking your own advice to heart will mitigate any perceived problems.

 

Back to the subject at hand...

[+JesandTodd]

My phone with battery is 6.0 oz. Do you have a scale nearby so you can weigh the iphone? I'd be interested in how much it weights. I'm guessing less.

 

White, iphone 4s, 32g =0.14kg

With mophie outdoor juice pack plus 0.22kg

 

According to Siri, because I'm a snob, that's 7.76oz with the external batt vs 4.94 oz without.

But....it's also slim and designed to fit in my back pocket, which my Garmin cannot do.

 

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Having the cache waypoints shown versus the trails helps to determine the best routes to the caches; also get to back out again.

 

When I say wpts, I mean the wpts that *I* add, like parking, TH, final coords or multi wpts. The caches are already there!

 

So, say I'm hiking along TMT and somebody goes ahead and puts a multi just after I've already hiked that area (snark). I would like to see the caches on on my screen AND the wpts associated with the multi all on one screen.

 

Or say I'm searching two puzzles in the same area. Once I've chosen which cache I'd like to search, I can't see the other caches.

 

I keep the live search tab on the area, showing me all the caches that I'd like to see, but I run my saved tab with the cache I'm actively seeking because it give me the rundown on distance, etc.

 

If I'm looking for 2 puzzles in the area, then it's a PIA to not be able to see the final wpt coord on the same screen.

 

Blah blah blah

[+JesandTodd]

 

Admittedly, I'm certainly not as diplomatic in here as Jessandtodd

 

I've never been called diplomatic IN MY LIFE!! This is quite the occasion!!

 

 

haha Do you track your hiking routes occasionally too? I need to get in the habit of doing that more often to help with getting the many local trails around here on openmaps.

 

I do, but only rarely and only if they provide me with elevation. I don't do it with my iphone. Can it be done with the iphone off? Does it increase the batt drain significantly?

[+thebruce0]

When I say wpts, I mean the wpts that *I* add, like parking, TH, final coords or multi wpts. The caches are already there!

 

So, say I'm hiking along TMT and somebody goes ahead and puts a multi just after I've already hiked that area (snark). I would like to see the caches on on my screen AND the wpts associated with the multi all on one screen.

 

Or say I'm searching two puzzles in the same area. Once I've chosen which cache I'd like to search, I can't see the other caches.

 

I keep the live search tab on the area, showing me all the caches that I'd like to see, but I run my saved tab with the cache I'm actively seeking because it give me the rundown on distance, etc.

 

If I'm looking for 2 puzzles in the area, then it's a PIA to not be able to see the final wpt coord on the same screen.

Have you checked out geosphere? It does exactly that and it's great. You have the option to show found caches and non-cache waypoints, highlighting the waypoint you have set as your target, and still showing other waypoints flagged as found in another colour. It really is great. Once I got used to Geosphere I never turned back to the official app. If/when the dev adds the Live API for immediate lookups, the official will be obsolete, IMO.

[+thebruce0]

haha Do you track your hiking routes occasionally too? I need to get in the habit of doing that more often to help with getting the many local trails around here on openmaps.

I do, but only rarely and only if they provide me with elevation. I don't do it with my iphone. Can it be done with the iphone off? Does it increase the batt drain significantly?

 

Well if your GPS is already on and active, then it may be a bit more as the phone is now actively reading and storing track points in the background, but that's about it. I use Everytrail, though there are a few other apps that do tracking. With Everytrail you can upload the completed trip to the website and it does all the analysis; elevation, speed, etc, and it's great for sharing. Then you can export it in various formats for use elsewhere like Google Earth.

I haven't played around with other apps like MotionX GPS and such enough to provide worthwhile insight into their features... but I like Everytrail (it also includes a good selection of map sets, including openmaps, though I haven't figured out if it's possible to create independent waypoints in the app, which is annoying; I just leave it running in the background while I cache with geosphere)

Edited May 16, 2012 by thebruce0

[+JesandTodd]

 

Have you checked out geosphere? It does exactly that and it's great. You have the option to show found caches and non-cache waypoints, highlighting the waypoint you have set as your target, and still showing other waypoints flagged as found in another colour. It really is great. Once I got used to Geosphere I never turned back to the official app. If/when the dev adds the Live API for immediate lookups, the official will be obsolete, IMO.

I have geosphere. I...don't...like..it..

I haven't used it much. It seems like it's just safari?

 

Maybe I'll play around with it more...

 

I use Everytrail, though there are a few other apps that do tracking. With Everytrail you can upload the completed trip to the website and it does all the analysis; elevation, speed, etc, and it's great for sharing. Then you can export it in various formats for use elsewhere like Google Earth.

 

I have Everytrail too. It didn't have many of the trails around here! I'll look into that too. I actually enrolled in another challange that was to hike 100 miles. but i had such a difficult time just figuring out the elevation stuff that i don't bother with the disantce anymore. I'd love to know how far I've hiked!

Edited May 16, 2012 by JesandTodd

[+_Shaddow_]

My phone with battery is 6.0 oz. Do you have a scale nearby so you can weigh the iphone? I'd be interested in how much it weights. I'm guessing less.

 

White, iphone 4s, 32g =0.14kg

With mophie outdoor juice pack plus 0.22kg

 

According to Siri, because I'm a snob, that's 7.76oz with the external batt vs 4.94 oz without.

But....it's also slim and designed to fit in my back pocket, which my Garmin cannot do.

Weight wise it seems to be near the same to even out the batter life

 

For typical use, a big win for the size, I very much like something that fits comfortable in my pocket and doesn't make me look like I'm packing (and not in a good way), if you know what I mean hehe. Though for hiking, the size and shape of the GPSr is actually a positive, it's very easy to handle and use, much more ergonomic especially for use while moving

 

What's the typical cost of the pack?

 

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Having the cache waypoints shown versus the trails helps to determine the best routes to the caches; also get to back out again.

 

When I say wpts, I mean the wpts that *I* add, like parking, TH, final coords or multi wpts. The caches are already there!

 

So, say I'm hiking along TMT and somebody goes ahead and puts a multi just after I've already hiked that area (snark). I would like to see the caches on on my screen AND the wpts associated with the multi all on one screen.

 

Or say I'm searching two puzzles in the same area. Once I've chosen which cache I'd like to search, I can't see the other caches.

 

I keep the live search tab on the area, showing me all the caches that I'd like to see, but I run my saved tab with the cache I'm actively seeking because it give me the rundown on distance, etc.

 

If I'm looking for 2 puzzles in the area, then it's a PIA to not be able to see the final wpt coord on the same screen.

Blah blah blah

OIC now.

 

Hehe are you talking about MTM (Tribute)? That's got some short but 'good' bushwhack

Look for another on the Rattlesnake Ridge Trail very soon...