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cachew nut

login to see coordinates

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quote:
I really don't get it at all. What is it about starting a FREE account that would hinder ANYONE except the MOST PARANOID from joining in the game?

 

I didn't call you names but you've decided to get insulting. I can see that you're not interested in discussing the issue in a mature fashion.

 

Ultimately it's up to Jeremy. I have no objection to giving cache hiders the option but am firmly against requiring users to log in to see coordinates.

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* Soapbox time!*

I have been reading these forums for some time now and have observed that some participants can't help but get into a "battle of wits" with each other, regardless of the topic. It's getting old!

 

*Steps off Soapbox*

 

As far as the issue of coordinate display is concerned, we should look out for the best interest of those playing the game now. Making the display of coordinates an option for each cacher should not "scare" new participants away. Some hiders will chose to show the coordinates, and some will not.

 

It has been mentioned (by me and others) that there are other causes of plundering, besides an unregistered person searching out a cache and taking it. Consider the difficulty of the cache (sitting out in the open for all to see), and the actual cache hider. Some cache hiders piss off others. (Just read these forums!) Some of you may have been targeted.

 

Instead of going around and around with this discussion, look at the goal: We want geocachers to find and hide caches without worry that the cache will be taken. We just want to play the game. A small change in the website *could* help, and probably not hurt.

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In the area I live in, two of the best and most challenging caches were plundered. Having been the initial finder of both caches, I can authoritatively state that there is no possibility that they were stumbled upon by accident ...these weren't 1/1 caches dumped without thought in a public location. One was a multicache covering several miles hiking mostly off-trail, and I was told by the cache owner that every element had been stolen.

 

Many hours of planning, hiking and searching went into those organized plunderings ... In the end, Team Epitome replaced Alluvial Material, but the plundering of Combination Rock appears to have broken their spirit. What a pity; what a loss to the sport of geocaching.

 

I suggest that the proposed change would only encourage more plunderings like these ... the only question I have is: If the proposed change, in any form, was adopted, how many hours would pass before the first "hidden coordinate" cache released was plundered ... or to be slightly less cynical, was found but the finder took advantage of the presently available "hidden log" feature? (AKA: the decision not to log to the cache page.)

 

[This message was edited by BassoonPilot on May 30, 2002 at 09:03 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

Many hours of planning, hiking and searching went into those organized plunderings ... In the end, Team Epitome replaced http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=8249, but the plundering of Combination Rock appears to have broken their spirit. What a pity; what a loss to the sport of geocaching.

 

I suggest that the proposed change would only encourage _more_ plunderings like these ... the only question I have is: If the proposed change, in any form, was adopted, how many hours would pass before the first "hidden coordinate" cache released was plundered ... or to be slightly less cynical, was found but the finder took advantage of the presently available "hidden log" feature? (AKA: the decision not to log to the cache page.)

 


 

While I haven't been playing this sport as long as Team Epitome, I can understand that their spirit was broken. It took even less time to break mine. Perhaps the adopted change would lift my spirits again. Who can tell how many hours will go by before a cache is plundered? I do know that the question cannot be answered without actually trying. In my case, I probably won't rehide my caches unless this feature is available. I put some effort into making my containers and stocking them with some decent rewards. I'm still undecided at this point.

 

What I do know is that to me, if they are once again plundered then I will have seen no difference. If it gets plundered, then at least I tried. To me, trying is better than just giving up. As far as the cacher not logging the find, I'm not bothered by this. It bothers me when I read logs from parents saying how delighted their kids were when they found a cache, and knowing that kids will be disappointed. And while I assume most participants are adults, a lot of us are still kids at heart icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

 

Many hours of planning, hiking and searching went into those organized plunderings ... In the end, Team Epitome replaced http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=8249, but the plundering of Combination Rock appears to have broken their spirit. What a pity; what a loss to the sport of geocaching.

 

I suggest that the proposed change would only encourage _more_ plunderings like these ... the only question I have is: If the proposed change, in any form, was adopted, how many hours would pass before the first "hidden coordinate" cache released was plundered ... or to be slightly less cynical, was found but the finder took advantage of the presently available "hidden log" feature? (AKA: the decision not to log to the cache page.)

 


 

While I haven't been playing this sport as long as Team Epitome, I can understand that their spirit was broken. It took even less time to break mine. Perhaps the adopted change would lift my spirits again. Who can tell how many hours will go by before a cache is plundered? I do know that the question cannot be answered without actually trying. In my case, I probably won't rehide my caches unless this feature is available. I put some effort into making my containers and stocking them with some decent rewards. I'm still undecided at this point.

 

What I do know is that to me, if they are once again plundered then I will have seen no difference. If it gets plundered, then at least I tried. To me, trying is better than just giving up. As far as the cacher not logging the find, I'm not bothered by this. It bothers me when I read logs from parents saying how delighted their kids were when they found a cache, and knowing that kids will be disappointed. And while I assume most participants are adults, a lot of us are still kids at heart icon_smile.gif

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It's amazing that the two previous posts, which were based on actual experience and which included no chest pounding or confrontation, are the most effective arguments of the entire discussion.

 

rdw

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quote:
Originally posted by rdw:

It's amazing that the two previous posts, which were based on actual experience and which included no chest pounding or confrontation, are the most effective arguments of the entire discussion.

 

rdw


 

Thanks, now make a choice and go vote please!

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I think I have figured out a way to place a cache that would require a login to see the coordinates without having to change any functionality of this board. This should make everyone happy I would think. I am going to go and place a cache now, and when I get back I will try this experiment out. It will forever be known as the "cachew nut" method in honor of my thinking of it icon_smile.gif Stay tuned, and I will share this with you in a couple of hours.

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I think I have figured out a way to place a cache that would require a login to see the coordinates without having to change any functionality of this board. This should make everyone happy I would think. I am going to go and place a cache now, and when I get back I will try this experiment out. It will forever be known as the "cachew nut" method in honor of my thinking of it icon_smile.gif Stay tuned, and I will share this with you in a couple of hours.

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Wow, this is an extremely thoughtful thread. I hope I'm not repeating a point already made, but...

 

I think what reduces targeted plundering is whether the vandal has to pay $$$ for their fun.

 

Reduction of plundering is all on the side of prevention. After all, even if you have a list of 'suspects' gathered through account registration or 'cache viewing' of MOC's, what are you going to do with it? Unless you're as troubled a person as the plunderer, I'm guessing not much.

 

Sure, the logic of adding obstacles to deter the casual idiot makes sense, but why add more than what's already in place? Cachers wishing to reduce the chances of being ripped off should use the MOC option. Payment of a charter membership fee is bound to significantly reduce the number of mischief minded morons.

 

Since making most of my caches MOC's I've had no problems with plundering. Before then, 4 of my first 18 caches were ransacked or taken (and I believe 3 by someone looking specifically for caches to steal).

 

I'm not advocating wholesale transfer of public caches to MOC's (God, think of the controversy!) but jeez, rather than change the web site and ask Jeremy to jump through more hoops, why not just 'click' that little MOC box and protect your more vulnerable caches?

 

Besides, I'm not sure it's fair to ask Jeremy to water down one of the attributes that gives charter membership substance.

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Wanted to note that I posted the following in This thread is for clues! Since it deals with this thread I thought I would also post it here.

 

quote:

I’m guessing that you instruct the cache finder to check the forum for the remainder of the cache info. I don’t know for sure because it looks like the cache hasn’t been approved, so I couldn’t view it yet. However, I really don’t like the idea of this forum becoming a mass of posts in this manner. When I read your post in the other thread I had an idea of how you were going to accomplish your desire to require a login to get the cache coordinates, but this is not how I figured you would do it.

 

I don’t like the login to view coordinates idea, but I hate the idea of using the forums like this. So, I am going to suggest an alternative. On the cache description page require the cache hunters to email you through the geocaching.com email link. You then reply to them with the actual cache coordinates. That way they have to first login to send the email, and you know who receives the coordinates.


 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

Wanted to note that I posted the following in http://opentopic.Groundspeak.com/0/OpenTopic?a=tpc&s=1750973553&f=6770936793&m=5790949474&r=3990990574#3990990574 Since it deals with this thread I thought I would also post it here.


 

Well you are just the posting fairy aren't you? Was it necessary to ruin a thread that I set up for those who might have a different opinion than you do? So what am I supposed to do now, start another thread that does not have your response? The thread was specifically titled This thread is for clues and asked not to respond. Are you just a natural born troublemaker? If you don't like the forum message then just skip past it. The forum doesn't belong to you personally. Out of all of the messages in this forum, you had to single out that one to hate, and then go and wreck something I was doing that did not pertain to you. If you don't like the idea of hiding coordinates then go vote your opinion because frankly, you are in the minority. Guess what? I don't care if you like the idea or not. I'm trying to fix a problem I'm having, one that no one else is doing anything about, especially the powers that be. This is what I need to do to have my caches exist. Don't try to censor me.

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quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

 

I am going to suggest an alternative. On the cache description page require the cache hunters to email you through the geocaching.com email link. You then reply to them with the actual cache coordinates. That way they have to first login to send the email, and you know who receives the coordinates.


 

Actually, I thought of that idea, too. The thing that I don't like about it is that, if a person is checking for nearby caches just before heading out to to go cache hunting, he won't be able to go out and immediately hunt for that cache.

 

In the area I live, going on a cache hunt usually means driving 30-50 miles (each way) to get to an area that has caches. To make the trip worthwhile, I like to hunt for at least a couple. If I have to wait overnight to get the coordinates for a particular cache, I'll probably have to cross it off my list, or wait until the next time I head that direction again. icon_frown.gif

 

Until Jeremy decides to provide the option of hiding coordinates from non-registrees, I may still use that option for future caches I place, though...as a 'lesser of two evils' compromise.

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quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

 

I am going to suggest an alternative. On the cache description page require the cache hunters to email you through the geocaching.com email link. You then reply to them with the actual cache coordinates. That way they have to first login to send the email, and you know who receives the coordinates.


 

Actually, I thought of that idea, too. The thing that I don't like about it is that, if a person is checking for nearby caches just before heading out to to go cache hunting, he won't be able to go out and immediately hunt for that cache.

 

In the area I live, going on a cache hunt usually means driving 30-50 miles (each way) to get to an area that has caches. To make the trip worthwhile, I like to hunt for at least a couple. If I have to wait overnight to get the coordinates for a particular cache, I'll probably have to cross it off my list, or wait until the next time I head that direction again. icon_frown.gif

 

Until Jeremy decides to provide the option of hiding coordinates from non-registrees, I may still use that option for future caches I place, though...as a 'lesser of two evils' compromise.

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

 

Sorry you don't like it. Thanks for ruining the thread.


 

I think you can still use your thread for what you wanted to do, even if it fills up with extraneous posts.

 

All you have to do (after posting a particular clue) is first do a search on the cache code you've put in the title, and then put a link in your cache page directly to the specific post that pertains to it (like this), as opposed to the top of the thread. (That'll save people from having to scroll down to find the pertinent information...it'll be right at the top of the page when they click on the link. icon_smile.gif)

 

[This message was edited by Zuckerruebensirup on June 03, 2002 at 08:37 AM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

 

Sorry you don't like it. Thanks for ruining the thread.


 

I think you can still use your thread for what you wanted to do, even if it fills up with extraneous posts.

 

All you have to do (after posting a particular clue) is first do a search on the cache code you've put in the title, and then put a link in your cache page directly to the specific post that pertains to it (like this), as opposed to the top of the thread. (That'll save people from having to scroll down to find the pertinent information...it'll be right at the top of the page when they click on the link. icon_smile.gif)

 

[This message was edited by Zuckerruebensirup on June 03, 2002 at 08:37 AM.]

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All quotes originally posted by cachew nut.

quote:
Well you are just the posting fairy aren't you?…. Are you just a natural born troublemaker?

Yeah, that’s me. icon_rolleyes.gif

quote:
The forum doesn't belong to you personally.

Nor does it to you.

quote:
…go vote your opinion…

I have.

quote:
Don't try to censor me.

Who would like to censor whom?

quote:
I don't care if you like the idea or not.

This is the Geocaching.com Discussion Forum. It is difficult to have a discussion with an attitude like that.

 

My apologies if you feel that your other thread was ruined, but since this is a community forum I do feel that I am justified in responding to any post I desire.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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All quotes originally posted by cachew nut.

quote:
Well you are just the posting fairy aren't you?…. Are you just a natural born troublemaker?

Yeah, that’s me. icon_rolleyes.gif

quote:
The forum doesn't belong to you personally.

Nor does it to you.

quote:
…go vote your opinion…

I have.

quote:
Don't try to censor me.

Who would like to censor whom?

quote:
I don't care if you like the idea or not.

This is the Geocaching.com Discussion Forum. It is difficult to have a discussion with an attitude like that.

 

My apologies if you feel that your other thread was ruined, but since this is a community forum I do feel that I am justified in responding to any post I desire.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

Actually, I thought of that idea, too. The thing that I don't like about it is that, if a person is checking for nearby caches just before heading out to to go cache hunting, he won't be able to go out and immediately hunt for that cache.


 

Valid point. How about this idea? You create a cache page and then archive that page. The archived page can still be edited by you but can only be viewed by a user who is logged in to the site. You could then put the same information that you would post here in this forum on the archived cache page. On the active cache page you can place a link to the archived page instead of to a forum post.

 

There would be no need to refer to this as the “Whidbey Walk” method. icon_smile.gif

 

The biggest problem I have with using the forum as cachew nut proposes is that it requires using the Geocaching.com Discussion forum since the others don’t require a login to view the posts. This just isn’t the correct forum to post information about specific caches. I wouldn’t object to using the regional forum, but they don’t meet the need for the login.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

Actually, I thought of that idea, too. The thing that I don't like about it is that, if a person is checking for nearby caches just before heading out to to go cache hunting, he won't be able to go out and immediately hunt for that cache.


 

Valid point. How about this idea? You create a cache page and then archive that page. The archived page can still be edited by you but can only be viewed by a user who is logged in to the site. You could then put the same information that you would post here in this forum on the archived cache page. On the active cache page you can place a link to the archived page instead of to a forum post.

 

There would be no need to refer to this as the “Whidbey Walk” method. icon_smile.gif

 

The biggest problem I have with using the forum as cachew nut proposes is that it requires using the Geocaching.com Discussion forum since the others don’t require a login to view the posts. This just isn’t the correct forum to post information about specific caches. I wouldn’t object to using the regional forum, but they don’t meet the need for the login.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

 

How about this idea? You create a cache page and then archive that page. The archived page can still be edited by you but can only be viewed by a user who is logged in to the site. You could then put the same information that you would post here in this forum on the archived cache page. On the active cache page you can place a link to the archived page instead of to a forum post.

 

There would be no need to refer to this as the “Whidbey Walk” method. icon_smile.gif


 

Hey...that's not a bad idea!

 

If I rush out and do it first, I could dub it as the "Zucked-Up Method" for hiding caches. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Speaking of archived cache pages (to go off on a tangent)...I've always wondered why they decided to force a person to log on to see THOSE, but not the active ones. I've always thought that seemed a bit bass-ackwards. icon_confused.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

 

How about this idea? You create a cache page and then archive that page. The archived page can still be edited by you but can only be viewed by a user who is logged in to the site. You could then put the same information that you would post here in this forum on the archived cache page. On the active cache page you can place a link to the archived page instead of to a forum post.

 

There would be no need to refer to this as the “Whidbey Walk” method. icon_smile.gif


 

Hey...that's not a bad idea!

 

If I rush out and do it first, I could dub it as the "Zucked-Up Method" for hiding caches. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Speaking of archived cache pages (to go off on a tangent)...I've always wondered why they decided to force a person to log on to see THOSE, but not the active ones. I've always thought that seemed a bit bass-ackwards. icon_confused.gif

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I think I'll just keep doing it my way. My original idea was just to have one message thread that could be skipped when glancing at the title of the thread. Now that the thread is messed up by containing messages other than clues, I'll just post a new message for each cache. I'll probably need to post it several times so that any responses will be off the screen and only visible if scrolled to. While the archived page idea is another method, I object to using an archived page for placing clues. Archived pages should only be used for archived caches. It would improperly reflect the number of caches placed in the profile. As it turns out, perhaps there is no proper place to put the clues, so this place is as good if not better than any other. I do like the fact that in your desperation to stop me you are now coming up with more ideas. I might have considered it earlier. Keep them coming, I'll listen.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

 

Speaking of archived cache pages (to go off on a tangent)...I've always wondered why they decided to force a person to log on to see THOSE, but not the active ones. I've always thought that seemed a bit bass-ackwards. icon_confused.gif


 

I just had to quote this since it's one of the most intelligent things I've heard here.

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

 

Speaking of archived cache pages (to go off on a tangent)...I've always wondered why they decided to force a person to log on to see THOSE, but not the active ones. I've always thought that seemed a bit bass-ackwards. icon_confused.gif


 

I just had to quote this since it's one of the most intelligent things I've heard here.

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Just to share the results of my experiment, while it does do what was intended, it is not as smooth as I would have thought. Even with the checkbox for cookies checked, and the checkbox for forum login checked, the link will only take you to the forum page, not the message. Once you hit the back button and try again, it works as intended. Once you have visited the forums logged in, it works fine after that.

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

Originally posted by Prime Suspect:

Just ask the people who's caches were screwed with by the Geocache Replacement Team several months back. Having to register didn't deter them.

 

Can anyone point me to any discussion about this? This was most likely before my time


This was back on the old forum. You could probably scan the archive in the General section for "geocache replacement" and might get a hit.

 

Basically, this was a group that would take caches and replace them other, crappier caches. I know - weird. And they would even log their "replacements" on the cache pages.

 

PS_sig.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Prime Suspect:

 

Basically, this was a group that would take caches and replace them other, crappier caches. I know - weird. And they would even log their "replacements" on the cache pages.


 

That's funny. It reminds me of Halloween when one summer I grew a really nice pumpkin and turned it into a nice jack-o-lantern. It was out on the front porch and in the morning there was a smaller, less circular jack-o-lantern in its place.

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I havent read the whole thread...

 

But i have hit a few caches in the last couple of years with borrowed GPS's and/or borrowed GPS owners.

 

Left something/took something, signed the log... but never registered until i got my own GPS.

 

It is a WONDERFUL hobby.

 

All you do by encrypting, hiding, making hoops... is to limit the casual fun someone can have.

 

I would never have been bitten by the bug if i had to DECLARE myself, give email address, and log in just to decide whether i liked it.

 

ALMOST everyone will respect the game.... and those that want to break it will jump through the hoops you set.

 

But my experience is that it isnt the geocache finders necessarily plundering. I used to have a cache (not a geocache) hidden quite well in the woods... it had a mess kit a couple candles and a cheap pocket knife. One time i went to use it and found a bunch of Cigarette butts and nothing there... its the nature of hidden things to be found SOMETIME.

 

Oh well, my $0.02 worth

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quote:
Originally posted by wobbly127:

i have hit a few caches in the last couple of years with borrowed GPS's and/or borrowed GPS owners. [...] I would never have been bitten by the bug if i had to DECLARE myself, give email address, and log in just to decide whether i liked it.


 

It seems like it wouldn't be too much more trouble to have those same GPS owners also forward the cache coordinates for you while they're at it.

 

-------

"I may be slow, but at least I'm sweet!" 196939_800.jpg

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Count me in favor of hiding the co-ordinates before I destroy my own position.

Part of the problem is that many people find the caches without a GPSr. They zoom in on the map, get a very accurate idea of the location, know the area and then decode a hint or two.

In our short month as a cacher we've seen more than a few log entries saying "knew area well, didn't need the gps to find it".

That makes me wonder whether just hiding co-ordinates is enough. So that may not make any difference. When you combine that with "found by accident" caches, I'm not sure how many thirds are really people poaching without logging in.

 

I like the idea of making it a hiding members choice, pesonally given the option I'd give just the name of the cache and the short description to non-logged in lookers. Really, you could still allow the search engine to find them, without disclosing the exact location, so the argument about people not getting hooked cause they think that there aren't any caches within 50 miles is silly. The reverse is true..."there are 365 caches within 50 miles of your location, click here to join geocaching.com FOR FREE, without giving up tons of personal info or subjucting yourself to loads of spam that most other sites inundate you with" Maybe the thought that the number of members would jump dramatically is the closest one to the mark.

A better job of educating non-member browsers of the incredible friendliness this site provides would help. It is rare that by registering for a site such as this a user suffers such little intrusion...in fact people expect it and don't register because of it...let them know the policy sooner...who knows that may help.

Anyway, give the hiding member the choice or more than one option.

 

Keep yer sails 'igh and move swiftly

Captain No Beard and the Pi Rats

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In the grand total of TEN DAYS that I have been involved in this hobby / game / sport I have already had a cache stolen. I was actually unaware that a non-logged in user could see the coordinates.

 

As a result I mentioned plundered caches to someone unrelated to the hobby - and was asked in turn if anyone had had their cache's swapped out instead of stolen - with a container of child pornography, poisonous material or even a bomb.

 

As you might imagine, I was talking to a lawyer at the time, about how product liability had taken two other hobbies of mine, general aviation and skydiving, out of my price range.

 

He was surprised this had not yet happened - and amazed nobody had even thought about it - though I'm pretty sure someone at least has.

 

At the time I told him you did have to be a registered and logged in member to see where things had been hidden - if I now go back and tell him that completely anonymous and unidentified people can get the cache coordinates, he will probably get the steriotypical "dollar signs in his eyes" look....

 

http://custer37.livejournal.com/

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

My bet is that with coordinates hidden you would see a big influx of registrants.


 

Maybe. But over the past couple of months, I've been watching (on Dan Miller's Leaderboard site) the number of active geocachers in nearby states decrease.

 

It could just be seasonal ... people might not like the hot weather, insects and poisonous plants; or perhaps participation has peaked for now.

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quote:
Originally posted by Dwight J. Dutton:

…was asked in turn if anyone had had their cache's swapped out instead of stolen - with a container of child pornography, poisonous material or even a bomb…

…if I now go back and tell him that completely anonymous and unidentified people can get the cache coordinates, he will probably get the steriotypical "dollar signs in his eyes" look....


How would a fictitious name and an anonymous email address prevent someone who would do such a thing from doing it? I too have had people ask similar questions when I first describe Geocaching to them. This has been discussed in other threads. Really we’re no safer from any such random act of violence when were out caching than any other time or in any other activity. Would hiding coordinates to non-registered users make us safer? How?

quote:
Originally posted by Captain No Beard and the Pi Rats:

Part of the problem is that many people find the caches without a GPSr. They zoom in on the map, get a very accurate idea of the location, know the area and then decode a hint or two.


Why is this a problem? Is a person without a GPSr or someone who chooses not to use their GPSr somehow less trustworthy or eligible to participate in this activity? How would hiding the coordinates have any affect on someone finding the cache with out using a GPSr or accidental finds?

 

Many posts ago in this thread someone said that the current system was broken and needs to be fixed. I won’t restart the argument about whether or not anything is broken, but if it is, any proposed fix should at least have a clear benefit to the community as a whole and not just be smoke and mirrors.

By the way, don’t take anything I have written personally. I am simply representing the other side of the issue. There have been too many personal attacks in the forums over the past couple of months. Let’s not go there. icon_wink.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

 

[This message was edited by Whidbey Walk on July 01, 2002 at 04:14 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Dwight J. Dutton:

…was asked in turn if anyone had had their cache's swapped out instead of stolen - with a container of child pornography, poisonous material or even a bomb…

…if I now go back and tell him that completely anonymous and unidentified people can get the cache coordinates, he will probably get the steriotypical "dollar signs in his eyes" look....


How would a fictitious name and an anonymous email address prevent someone who would do such a thing from doing it? I too have had people ask similar questions when I first describe Geocaching to them. This has been discussed in other threads. Really we’re no safer from any such random act of violence when were out caching than any other time or in any other activity. Would hiding coordinates to non-registered users make us safer? How?

quote:
Originally posted by Captain No Beard and the Pi Rats:

Part of the problem is that many people find the caches without a GPSr. They zoom in on the map, get a very accurate idea of the location, know the area and then decode a hint or two.


Why is this a problem? Is a person without a GPSr or someone who chooses not to use their GPSr somehow less trustworthy or eligible to participate in this activity? How would hiding the coordinates have any affect on someone finding the cache with out using a GPSr or accidental finds?

 

Many posts ago in this thread someone said that the current system was broken and needs to be fixed. I won’t restart the argument about whether or not anything is broken, but if it is, any proposed fix should at least have a clear benefit to the community as a whole and not just be smoke and mirrors.

By the way, don’t take anything I have written personally. I am simply representing the other side of the issue. There have been too many personal attacks in the forums over the past couple of months. Let’s not go there. icon_wink.gif

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

 

[This message was edited by Whidbey Walk on July 01, 2002 at 04:14 PM.]

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quote:
Originally posted by Dwight J. Dutton:

 

…was asked in turn if anyone had had their cache's swapped out instead of stolen - with a container of child pornography, poisonous material or even a bomb…

…if I now go back and tell him that completely anonymous and unidentified people can get the cache coordinates, he will probably get the steriotypical "dollar signs in his eyes" look....


quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

 

How would a fictitious name and an anonymous email address prevent someone who would do such a thing from doing it? I too have had people ask similar questions when I first describe Geocaching to them. This has been discussed in other threads. Really we’re no safer from any such random act of violence when were out caching than any other time or in any other activity. Would hiding coordinates to non-registered users make us safer? How?


Even when people lie about their information here, ISP's and specific users CAN be traced if something of a criminal nature takes place.

 

Of course, it would still be a matter of narrowing down which registered user had swapped out the cache for a bomb (or whatever the case may be). But perhaps the idea that they could be traced might help deter people from even thinking about attempting such heinous acts.

 

quote:
Originally posted by Captain No Beard and the Pi Rats:

 

Part of the problem is that many people find the caches without a GPSr. They zoom in on the map, get a very accurate idea of the location, know the area and then decode a hint or two.


quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

 

Why is this a problem? Is a person without a GPSr or someone who chooses not to use their GPSr somehow less trustworthy or eligible to participate in this activity? How would hiding the coordinates have any affect on someone finding the cache with out using a GPSr or accidental finds?


I don't think the Cap'n was saying that people who don't use a GPSr are less trustworthy at all. I believe his point was that simply hiding the coordinates, while still leaving the maps and clues available to non-registrees, isn't enough...it still leaves the caches vulnerable to those who might want to seek them out without registering.

 

As for accidental finds, obviously changing ANYTHING on the website won't help those. That's up to the hiders to make the caches tougher to stumble across. But by adding one more hoop to jump through on the website, we would at least be (potentially) reducing SOME of the non-friendly access to caches.

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I emailed Jeremy regarding this matter a couple of times in the past weeks. So far he has ignored two emails. I would have thought that perhaps he would participate in the discussion, or review the poll data, or any feedback in addition to his original one post on the subject. You would think that at the very least he would consider this option, or at least send a note that he received the email and chooses to do nothing. I'm pretty disappointed by no response.

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

 

I'm pretty disappointed by no response.


 

Although I haven't e-mailed Jeremy myself, I've been kind of hoping that he'd pop in here with his 2 cents worth, too.

 

Even if his answer is that he thinks it's a bad idea and says that he's not going to consider the change, at least we'd know where he stands...and whether or not we should stop wasting our breath (or our typing fingers, as the case may be) on continuing to discuss the issue.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

It may filter out some of the riff raff, but it won't work too well, since any shmoe can create a throwaway hotmail account and see the coordinates anyway.

 

Although I get a lot of flak from member only caches, it seemed like the ultimate (best solution) for just these issues.

 

Jeremy

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location


 

Posted 28 May 2002.

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Originally posted by GeoPrincess:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

It may filter out some of the riff raff, but it won't work too well,


 

quote:

Originally posted by Cachew Nut:

or any feedback in addition to his original one post on the subject


 

Don't you hate it when people respond to your posts, without reading it in it's entirety?

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quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut:

 

Don't you hate it when people respond to your posts, without reading it in it's entirety?


 

You're funny. I wonder how often we forum posters make Jeremy think "Don't you hate it when people don't recognize a none too subtle hint?"

 

quote:
Originally posted by cachew nut: You would think that at the very least he would consider this option, or at least send a note that he received the email and chooses to do nothing.

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quote:
Originally posted by GeoPrincess:

 

You're funny. I wonder how often we forum posters make Jeremy think "Don't you hate it when people don't recognize a none too subtle hint?"

 


 

What part of * in addition to his original one post on the subject * are you having trouble understanding? You are new here with 5 posts and no hidden caches and no finds, so I'll just chalk it up to newbieness. A good idea would be to read through the whole thread before responding with your revelation of old news. Welcome to geocaching icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by GeoPrincess:

 

You're funny. I wonder how often we forum posters make Jeremy think "Don't you hate it when people don't recognize a none too subtle hint?"

 


 

What part of * in addition to his original one post on the subject * are you having trouble understanding? You are new here with 5 posts and no hidden caches and no finds, so I'll just chalk it up to newbieness. A good idea would be to read through the whole thread before responding with your revelation of old news. Welcome to geocaching icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Captain No Beard and the Pi Rats:

Part of the problem.


The "problem" I was referring to was not that well intentioned people could find the cache without a GPSr, but that ill-intentioned people could do so without a GPSr, hence my earlier comment in the quote about disarming my own position...You don't need a GPSr or the Co-ordinates to plunder a cache, just have access to the map and the clues.

I thought the context was clear, guess not...

 

Keep yer sails 'igh, and move swiftly

 

The Cap'n

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quote:
Originally posted by Zuckerruebensirup:

I don't think the Cap'n was saying that people who don't use a GPSr are less trustworthy at all. I believe his point was that simply hiding the coordinates, while still leaving the maps and clues available to non-registrees, isn't __enough__...it still leaves the caches vulnerable to those who might want to seek them out without registering.

 

As for accidental finds, obviously changing ANYTHING on the website won't help those. That's up to the hiders to make the caches tougher to stumble across. But by adding one more hoop to jump through on the website, we would at least be (potentially) reducing SOME of the non-friendly access to caches.


 

Precisely, thanks Z...

Thus my closing, if you're going to hide co-ordinates, an Idea I approve of...you need also to give the option of hiding each of the "fields".

Myself, I'd openly expose the title and the short description...If you wanna know more, type in a half dozen characters.

 

Keep yer sails 'igh, and move swiftly.

 

The Cap'n

PS...

And whilst the discussion has turned a little into why hasn't Jeremy piped up recently...I wouldn't mind hearing too...just that you can only divide a guy up how may ways, so hopefully he'll se that folks are waiting to hear what he has to say after some extensive debate has taken place...and give us another 2 cents...worth that is.

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quote:
Thus my closing, if you're going to hide co-ordinates, an Idea I approve of...you need also to give the option of hiding each of the "fields".

 

This already exists in the form of “Members Only” caches. I can believe that a MO cache would have an affect on intentional plunderers because it involves a monetary investment. However, if you go back and read some of the heated threads about the MO caches when they first came out, you will see that there are a lot of people that don’t think that even a MO cache would be safe from a dedicated plunderer. There have been plunderers who have even logged their deed on the web site! Obviously registration was no barrier to them.

 

As for my previous comments about people who don’t use a GPSr, I did indeed misinterpret the original statement made by The Cap’n.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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Members only caches would exclude those registered players who cannot afford to pay the membership fees. I personally don't feel like excluding those without money from finding my caches. I only wish to exclude the lurkers who have access to a registered users information.

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OK. I understand that you don’t want to use a member’s only cache. The reason I brought up the issue was to say that requiring a slight monetary cost may deter a plunderer but registration alone has not been a deterrent in the past. As far as lurkers go…registration and login are required to post to the forums, but that doesn’t stop the trolls.

 

http://home.earthlink.net/~whidbeywalk/

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quote:
Originally posted by Whidbey Walk:

OK. I understand that you don’t want to use a member’s only cache. The reason I brought up the issue was to say that requiring a slight monetary cost _may_ deter a plunderer but registration alone has not been a deterrent in the past. As far as lurkers go…registration and login are required to post to the forums, but that doesn’t stop the trolls.


 

It hasn't been tried in the past, so there is no proof that it would not be a deterrent. It could have just as easily been a lurker who plundered the cache, and then when he did not get immediate satisfaction from any posts on the cache site, decided to register so he could boast on the cache page. Having to register first might have prevented this. I say might because there is no data to prove it. However implementing the hiding of coordinates as an option might provide the missing data. Not implementing this option proves nothing.

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